If you ever thought of becoming a Trainer...
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If you ever thought of becoming a Trainer...
Posted on the EK portal...
"If you ever thought of becoming a Trainer, you'll be please to know that Flight Training has streamline the process..."
Obviously the correct use of the english language isn't one of the pre-requisites.
"If you ever thought of becoming a Trainer, you'll be please to know that Flight Training has streamline the process..."
Obviously the correct use of the english language isn't one of the pre-requisites.
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KC, pay attention, streamline is the new corporate word for NO STANDARDS, WE ARE REALLY SHORT OF QUALIFIED VOLUNTEERS.
The D in streamlined has been removed, as someone might think it has something to do with the word in the dictionary, additionally there is a cost saving by not typing the extra letter
The D in streamlined has been removed, as someone might think it has something to do with the word in the dictionary, additionally there is a cost saving by not typing the extra letter
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You're right!
you're right...I realise now there is no "d" in the sentence at all. EK has obviously instituted a policy of dropping the "d' from all company correspondance. This will save 1/26th on all publishing costs. Marvellous plan.
What a ork I am for missing that.
What a ork I am for missing that.
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Can you imagine how high you would be promoted if you where some narrow minded minutiae fixated bean counter who had just saved the company 1/26th of costs. Why you would be promoted to VP in no time at all, way better than cost neutral KG
Sorry I am just being a ickhea
Sorry I am just being a ickhea
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Whats wrong with lowering the standards of trainers. I hear it is comensurate with the lowering of standards for upgrades.So it all fits nicely. Some upgrades Im aware of thru mutual aqcuaintances wouldnt get a look in in europe. Still theyve been at EK for maybe 18 months (with no real accountable provenance in command other than a third world history) so that in their eyes makes them infinitely more experienced than DECs ( 737 yanks aside).
What a hippocritical farce.
Glad I turned it down.
Keep degenerating.
What a hippocritical farce.
Glad I turned it down.
Keep degenerating.
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Whats wrong with lowering the standards of trainers. I hear it is comensurate with the lowering of standards for upgrades.So it all fits nicely. Some upgrades Im aware of thru mutual aqcuaintances wouldnt get a look in in europe. Still theyve been at EK for maybe 18 months (with no real accountable provenance in command other than a third world history) so that in their eyes makes them infinitely more experienced than DECs ( 737 yanks aside).
What a hippocritical farce.
Glad I turned it down.
Keep degenerating.
What a hippocritical farce.
Glad I turned it down.
Keep degenerating.
And what makes you think that Europe is far better than anywhere else? I spent my first few years there and believe me the flying is way easier than in the "third world" you mentioned.
As for DECs and Upgrades, the DEC failure rate has been far higher than the Upgrade failure rate. The right seaters in EK are a hard working bunch and the time spent as F/O here gives a very steep learning curve and believe you me, training standards are still very high even though the people involved are still severely overworked. If anyone passes the upgrade course it's only because he's got what it takes.
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And what makes you think that Europe is far better than anywhere else? I spent my first few years there and believe me the flying is way easier than in the "third world" you mentioned.
Just because someone learns to drive in Calcutta, where it is plainly more dangerous and difficult than say Hamburg, doesn't mean they are a better driver. Just look at the SZR for proof
A good pilot is a good pilot regardless where they come from, however, the environment they have been used to does influence their behaviour.
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Basically the trainers pay was adjusted to be more in line with the recent changes on the line, specifically hourly pay, which includes sim time. So in effect no real change compared to the line.
Sim credits have gone from 4 hrs to 5.5 hrs. The net effect of this is that it makes it possible for TRI's and TRE's to get overtime, whereas before it was almost impossible if you had more than 3 or 4 sims per month.
There was also an insignificant increase to the rate paid per duty above 12 training duties per month.
All in all it is definitely an increase. The trouble is that it doesn't actually address the problem which is the workload trainers are under. Only one thing will fix that. More trainers, which means more money.
V
p.s I see on the portal that management have decided to make a positive step toward reducing trainers workload. Minimum line training sectors have been reduced by 4. That should make it a safer airline.
V
Sim credits have gone from 4 hrs to 5.5 hrs. The net effect of this is that it makes it possible for TRI's and TRE's to get overtime, whereas before it was almost impossible if you had more than 3 or 4 sims per month.
There was also an insignificant increase to the rate paid per duty above 12 training duties per month.
All in all it is definitely an increase. The trouble is that it doesn't actually address the problem which is the workload trainers are under. Only one thing will fix that. More trainers, which means more money.
V
p.s I see on the portal that management have decided to make a positive step toward reducing trainers workload. Minimum line training sectors have been reduced by 4. That should make it a safer airline.
V
Last edited by Vorsicht; 27th Jun 2007 at 09:38.
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Hook ,
you lot are soooo predictable.OOO you got me . What a plonker. That sort of standard predictable retort is indictative of the self obssesed nature of many in the pit.
DEC jobs are ten a penny. EK isnt worth it for me amongst other reasons.. So Im not there , but you believe what you want.
Now Noone said that europe was easier.I operate in both. I insinuated as has another chap on another forum that it is possibly easier to aquire the necesary qualifications and parker time in juristictions of dubious integrety. Juristictions that EK have poached from. But they are ICAO so thats alright then.
Now combine that with a desperation for pilots and easing of standards and hours and you very soon have the situatiuon where a chap may hypothetically rise to dizzying heights where otherwise he may not be suitable. It would appear that such factors are manifesting themselves at EK ( and others, but this is about ek). I have first hand knowledge of such meteoric sucess at ek. Good luck to you all , but I wont be buying any more eeeek tickets again( amongst others).
Now I must dash and fire up my microsoft simulator.
you lot are soooo predictable.OOO you got me . What a plonker. That sort of standard predictable retort is indictative of the self obssesed nature of many in the pit.
DEC jobs are ten a penny. EK isnt worth it for me amongst other reasons.. So Im not there , but you believe what you want.
Now Noone said that europe was easier.I operate in both. I insinuated as has another chap on another forum that it is possibly easier to aquire the necesary qualifications and parker time in juristictions of dubious integrety. Juristictions that EK have poached from. But they are ICAO so thats alright then.
Now combine that with a desperation for pilots and easing of standards and hours and you very soon have the situatiuon where a chap may hypothetically rise to dizzying heights where otherwise he may not be suitable. It would appear that such factors are manifesting themselves at EK ( and others, but this is about ek). I have first hand knowledge of such meteoric sucess at ek. Good luck to you all , but I wont be buying any more eeeek tickets again( amongst others).
Now I must dash and fire up my microsoft simulator.
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Lou,
What?? like the chap that got into a well known UK Chater Airline by inventing a ficticious RAF pilot career, complete with log book etc. Only to be found out because he couldn't keep his mouth shut (a bit like you), and the people that had actually been in the RAF didn't remember him so made enquiries.
Last I heard he was going to be prosecuted.
UK is in Europe is it not????
Enough said.
What?? like the chap that got into a well known UK Chater Airline by inventing a ficticious RAF pilot career, complete with log book etc. Only to be found out because he couldn't keep his mouth shut (a bit like you), and the people that had actually been in the RAF didn't remember him so made enquiries.
Last I heard he was going to be prosecuted.
UK is in Europe is it not????
Enough said.
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Crisis in EK training:
On the one hand you have an address by TCAS telling us how wonderful EK is and how much money they are making... then you have PP teliing us how the new package will attract new trainers... which it isn't. The 500Dhm increase to the appointement pay sent out the wrong message and just turned people away.
We have lost good, experienced trainers and are now streamlining the process to replace them. With outsourcing and extra training due to the erosion of standards surely it would have been better to make the job more attractive financially than to penny pinch it into decline.
47 trainers short now, many more next year. With the shortage comes the increased workload which without more trainers will not improve in the foreseeable future. More days off and equivilent pay on the line without the hassle... streamline the process all you like but it won't fix the problem.
PAY is the issue. All tolled the new package just puts a LTC/TRI on the same amount as a line pilot. Pay more, increase the status of the job and people will apply. When they do the rosters will improve eventually.. eventually because it will take months to train enough trainers to make any difference.
It is just another example of short term financial gains producing long term pain.
And unfortunately it is only going to get worse. Resignations continue and the first to get recruited are trainers especially on the types we fly which are in high demand. One way or another EK is going to have to face up to what it wants to do verses what it will be able to do. It is so avoidable but unless there is a fundamental change in attitude at the high echlons (TC inparticular) EK will reach critical mass in the near future..
On the one hand you have an address by TCAS telling us how wonderful EK is and how much money they are making... then you have PP teliing us how the new package will attract new trainers... which it isn't. The 500Dhm increase to the appointement pay sent out the wrong message and just turned people away.
We have lost good, experienced trainers and are now streamlining the process to replace them. With outsourcing and extra training due to the erosion of standards surely it would have been better to make the job more attractive financially than to penny pinch it into decline.
47 trainers short now, many more next year. With the shortage comes the increased workload which without more trainers will not improve in the foreseeable future. More days off and equivilent pay on the line without the hassle... streamline the process all you like but it won't fix the problem.
PAY is the issue. All tolled the new package just puts a LTC/TRI on the same amount as a line pilot. Pay more, increase the status of the job and people will apply. When they do the rosters will improve eventually.. eventually because it will take months to train enough trainers to make any difference.
It is just another example of short term financial gains producing long term pain.
And unfortunately it is only going to get worse. Resignations continue and the first to get recruited are trainers especially on the types we fly which are in high demand. One way or another EK is going to have to face up to what it wants to do verses what it will be able to do. It is so avoidable but unless there is a fundamental change in attitude at the high echlons (TC inparticular) EK will reach critical mass in the near future..
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Gore tex ...you beat me to it.
Aircav. You have just made my point for me.
In a weell (over )regulated system like the uk this guy got through but as you say some peer "enquiries" were made and he got caught.
Now transpose that situation to a not so well regulated juristiction and a company that needs pilots and doesnt verify the provennance by the same "enquiries" et voila. By enqiries I refer to people being suspicious maybe having been exposed to said juristiction . Not to the official history which will have been well prepared , stamped up and probably purchased.
It happens occaisionly in the UK, and usually gets found out. It may well be a sleeping disater for EEEEEEKKKK airlines. My logic is sound, it happens alot and EEEKKKK is recruiting from those enviroments a lot more these days. Despite this site being in the public domain other opinions and critism are never welcome by the skygods in the pit and its not my problem so Ill leave you to it.
Being falsley higher up the food chain due to the fuedal system of the gulf can reek havoc with your egos.
Keep Denying
Aircav. You have just made my point for me.
In a weell (over )regulated system like the uk this guy got through but as you say some peer "enquiries" were made and he got caught.
Now transpose that situation to a not so well regulated juristiction and a company that needs pilots and doesnt verify the provennance by the same "enquiries" et voila. By enqiries I refer to people being suspicious maybe having been exposed to said juristiction . Not to the official history which will have been well prepared , stamped up and probably purchased.
It happens occaisionly in the UK, and usually gets found out. It may well be a sleeping disater for EEEEEEKKKK airlines. My logic is sound, it happens alot and EEEKKKK is recruiting from those enviroments a lot more these days. Despite this site being in the public domain other opinions and critism are never welcome by the skygods in the pit and its not my problem so Ill leave you to it.
Being falsley higher up the food chain due to the fuedal system of the gulf can reek havoc with your egos.
Keep Denying
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Lou,
If that is your strongly held belief, why did you apply in the first place???
For your info most of the people you are putting down come from so called first world aviation backgrounds, if you cared to check your facts. But don't let reality get in the way of your biased opinions. Also if you think no one fails the training your so called friends have not been giving you the whole truth. Most of the recent upgrade failures have been pilots from "proper" aviation countries. By the way the hours/standards have only been eased for DEC's so there goes your argument.
Gortex, I concede your point about the UK though.
If that is your strongly held belief, why did you apply in the first place???
For your info most of the people you are putting down come from so called first world aviation backgrounds, if you cared to check your facts. But don't let reality get in the way of your biased opinions. Also if you think no one fails the training your so called friends have not been giving you the whole truth. Most of the recent upgrade failures have been pilots from "proper" aviation countries. By the way the hours/standards have only been eased for DEC's so there goes your argument.
Gortex, I concede your point about the UK though.
