EK Lawsuit
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Joined: May 2007
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From: Chad
EK Lawsuit
Emirates pilots sue Emirates Airlines for discrimination
A group of 12 EK Airbus pilots are preparing to take legal action against Emirates airlines on the grounds of employment discrimination. Within the same company and having signed the same contract, there is a direct distinction between employees with the same position, same qualifications and same date of entry. This discrimination is between FO’s (first officer) on the Airbus and the Boeing fleet.
A number of Airbus FO’s have now received a potential date for the start of their command course 4.6 years after joining the company (4.8 years until course completion). This implies that an Airbus FO has to wait 1.8 years longer than his Boeing counterpart who upgrades after only 3 years with the company. A Boeing FO with an identical joining date and rank not only benefits from a faster career progression, but also from a substantial raise in salary and privileges (pension fund, travel benefits, accommodation) totalling several hundred thousand dirhams.
In the past, promotion times for upgrade courses have always slightly differed between the Airbus and Boeing fleets, but have never reached such these proportions. 1.8 year is, in fact, 75% of a Boeing FO’s lifespan. The distinction between promotion times does not stem from external factors such as the delayed arrival of the A380s. It clearly results from company policy and the lack of a standardised seniority system. Ironically EK has published an official seniority list (all fleets merged) on their crew portal.
The GCAA might become involved in the legal proceedings as this discrimination could affect some aspects of flight safety such as CRM.
The 12 EK Airbus pilots intend to compel Emirates to resolve this discrimination issue by scheduling earlier upgrade courses for Airbus FO, or at the very least providing compensation to the plaintiffs.
A group of 12 EK Airbus pilots are preparing to take legal action against Emirates airlines on the grounds of employment discrimination. Within the same company and having signed the same contract, there is a direct distinction between employees with the same position, same qualifications and same date of entry. This discrimination is between FO’s (first officer) on the Airbus and the Boeing fleet.
A number of Airbus FO’s have now received a potential date for the start of their command course 4.6 years after joining the company (4.8 years until course completion). This implies that an Airbus FO has to wait 1.8 years longer than his Boeing counterpart who upgrades after only 3 years with the company. A Boeing FO with an identical joining date and rank not only benefits from a faster career progression, but also from a substantial raise in salary and privileges (pension fund, travel benefits, accommodation) totalling several hundred thousand dirhams.
In the past, promotion times for upgrade courses have always slightly differed between the Airbus and Boeing fleets, but have never reached such these proportions. 1.8 year is, in fact, 75% of a Boeing FO’s lifespan. The distinction between promotion times does not stem from external factors such as the delayed arrival of the A380s. It clearly results from company policy and the lack of a standardised seniority system. Ironically EK has published an official seniority list (all fleets merged) on their crew portal.
The GCAA might become involved in the legal proceedings as this discrimination could affect some aspects of flight safety such as CRM.
The 12 EK Airbus pilots intend to compel Emirates to resolve this discrimination issue by scheduling earlier upgrade courses for Airbus FO, or at the very least providing compensation to the plaintiffs.
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 145
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From: Middle East
The only direction this will go is backwards. This has been covered before. When I joined a good few years ago, the company stopped Transition Upgrades as a few of the candidates were failing their upgrade courses.
I myself had quite a few Airbus guys jump ahead of me by anything up to six months. Personally it meant that I didnt have to go near the 54,000 Stella Artois cans welded together masquerading under the name of Airbus.
To The 12 good and true guys going for the law suit, all I can say is good luck. I think the chances of winning are less than zero. The company only recently lifted the ban on transition upgrades. Hey and guess what, when the A380 arrives it will be the Boeing guys who wont get a look in. But then who really wants to fly the A380 when you already fly a Boeing???????????
I myself had quite a few Airbus guys jump ahead of me by anything up to six months. Personally it meant that I didnt have to go near the 54,000 Stella Artois cans welded together masquerading under the name of Airbus.
To The 12 good and true guys going for the law suit, all I can say is good luck. I think the chances of winning are less than zero. The company only recently lifted the ban on transition upgrades. Hey and guess what, when the A380 arrives it will be the Boeing guys who wont get a look in. But then who really wants to fly the A380 when you already fly a Boeing???????????
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 435
Likes: 5
From: Bolivia
I hope this is true, and good luck to the guys involved. From what i have seen, every time EK has been taken to court over its discriminatory HR policies, the company has lost. That has largely been because the cases have been tried in the UK. Lets hope this one goes the same way.
My bet is that this wont make it to court because EK wont want to set a precedent. But having said that, if they settle out of court it will open up a whole new can of worms for them.
More power to you guys.
My bet is that this wont make it to court because EK wont want to set a precedent. But having said that, if they settle out of court it will open up a whole new can of worms for them.
More power to you guys.
Joined: Jul 1999
Posts: 221
Likes: 9
From: Australia
I doubt it will go anywhere if the case is to be presented in Dubai ( why would another country want to listen to it ?)
1. Its unfair but no breach of contract.
2. Very hard to get Dubai legal firms to go up against EK, because they are either already working for them already or trying to get EK business.
3. If they were to win EK will ensure they fail their upgrades.
Better option but just as unlikely ( but avoids point 3 ), would be to campaign for bypass pay. Use the family airline argument ect.ect.
Goodluck
1. Its unfair but no breach of contract.
2. Very hard to get Dubai legal firms to go up against EK, because they are either already working for them already or trying to get EK business.
3. If they were to win EK will ensure they fail their upgrades.
Better option but just as unlikely ( but avoids point 3 ), would be to campaign for bypass pay. Use the family airline argument ect.ect.
Goodluck
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 146
Likes: 0
From: desert city
Hey fellas
ABOUT TIME SOME REAL NEWS
good onya boys for having a go...
my guess is part of that 106m USD the Govt took as tax will go to legal fees to drain you completely of any cash. Then you will have to work for ek under any circumstances to pay your legal bills.
Post situation...........Still no upgrade and probably looking at 46 yrs to command not 4yrs and 6 months
big balls guys .........considering there is no mention of upgrade in your contract. Perseption or expectation doesnt count and certainly seniority has no bearing on your progression at EK.
You are Airbus drivers until EK decide otherwise......that is what you have been employed to do.
Sorry boys.......we are all individual contractors. like it or lump it
I will watching this one very closely
TR
ABOUT TIME SOME REAL NEWS
good onya boys for having a go...
my guess is part of that 106m USD the Govt took as tax will go to legal fees to drain you completely of any cash. Then you will have to work for ek under any circumstances to pay your legal bills.
Post situation...........Still no upgrade and probably looking at 46 yrs to command not 4yrs and 6 months
big balls guys .........considering there is no mention of upgrade in your contract. Perseption or expectation doesnt count and certainly seniority has no bearing on your progression at EK.
You are Airbus drivers until EK decide otherwise......that is what you have been employed to do.
Sorry boys.......we are all individual contractors. like it or lump it
I will watching this one very closely
TR
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 215
Likes: 0
From: Raincoast
... the company and these fellows are going to end up in a !!!! storm of recrimination.
Believe me I would enjoy a little pleasure seeing EK get its face slapped as the company is run barbarously but I think these guys are tilting at windmills in their Quixotic quest...
I think there's a misguided element of "entitlement" within this alleged suit.
I reckon the company has every right to offer upgrades within a fleet - it's cost effective after all. If this means that some FOs get command before others, so be it. There are transition upgrades available after all. There is no observable correlation between seniority and offers of anything at this company. Everything is fluid and negotiable... it's the spirit of the place. Dubai is full of hustlers, whores and heretics... everyone preachin' their own brand of selfishness... wether its at the traffic lights, in line at the gas station, or at the mall... it's the "me first" culture of region.
This line of thinking is the kind of thing that just never ends, with one group always able to say they have been "disadvantaged". It's the kind of peevishness encouraged in minority rights oriented societies... Everyone co-opts the language of the disenfranchised to advance their cause... "discrimination" is the flavour of the day... it's a load of crap sometimes though.
EVERYBODY KNOWS the company lied, (was lying), when verbal statements about the time to command where made at interviews and upon joining during initial transition training. Anyone who took the word of any recruiter/TRI/TRE etc... was just foolin' themselves. The company does pay DECs differently than internally upgraded Captains... what to do, what to do?
Everybody knows the good guys are never first just better.
good luck
k-o-t-s
Believe me I would enjoy a little pleasure seeing EK get its face slapped as the company is run barbarously but I think these guys are tilting at windmills in their Quixotic quest...
I think there's a misguided element of "entitlement" within this alleged suit.
I reckon the company has every right to offer upgrades within a fleet - it's cost effective after all. If this means that some FOs get command before others, so be it. There are transition upgrades available after all. There is no observable correlation between seniority and offers of anything at this company. Everything is fluid and negotiable... it's the spirit of the place. Dubai is full of hustlers, whores and heretics... everyone preachin' their own brand of selfishness... wether its at the traffic lights, in line at the gas station, or at the mall... it's the "me first" culture of region.
This line of thinking is the kind of thing that just never ends, with one group always able to say they have been "disadvantaged". It's the kind of peevishness encouraged in minority rights oriented societies... Everyone co-opts the language of the disenfranchised to advance their cause... "discrimination" is the flavour of the day... it's a load of crap sometimes though.
EVERYBODY KNOWS the company lied, (was lying), when verbal statements about the time to command where made at interviews and upon joining during initial transition training. Anyone who took the word of any recruiter/TRI/TRE etc... was just foolin' themselves. The company does pay DECs differently than internally upgraded Captains... what to do, what to do?
Everybody knows the good guys are never first just better.
good luck
k-o-t-s
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 727
Likes: 0
From: Varies!
Their claim, if this thread is actually true, is for discrimination. Nothing to do with a contract. Discrimination can and has been proved many times AFTER contracts are signed. Especially in European Courts of law. ( hint!).And no, we are NOT 'contract' Pilots in the sense that others may be. You join EK on an open contract like BA, Lufthansa, AA etc.
Emirates is quite happy to go to Airbus claiming against loss incured from delayed A380's. Not so happy to pay out compensation in the form of bypass pay when it involves its own staff. Perhaps the 'compensation' from Airbus will be passed onto these guys
And just because the Boeing guys were disadvantaged 4 years ago, is no reason to accept it now. 10 year old kids were sent down mines less than 100 years ago but it doesn't happen now because someone had the balls to say "enough is enough!" Good luck to them if this is true!
Emirates is quite happy to go to Airbus claiming against loss incured from delayed A380's. Not so happy to pay out compensation in the form of bypass pay when it involves its own staff. Perhaps the 'compensation' from Airbus will be passed onto these guys
And just because the Boeing guys were disadvantaged 4 years ago, is no reason to accept it now. 10 year old kids were sent down mines less than 100 years ago but it doesn't happen now because someone had the balls to say "enough is enough!" Good luck to them if this is true!
Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 233
Likes: 24
From: east
I think EK has to offer a reasonable solution to avoid the publicity. Shafting a group of its own pilots because thay tried to make a valid argument, remembering they have no union to negotiate with, would not help the recruitment drive....
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 430
Likes: 0
From: Sandy beach
Rightly shafted and discriminated against....they had fleet transfers before and every 1st world major Airline does the same. It's a complete shaft and completely inexuseable. They have loss all good will for the AB F0's and ever since the DEC and Accelerated policies things have gone straight down the lav...Good luck to them.
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 66
Likes: 0
From: Planet Janet (sand pit)
The best of luck guys, but which Court is this going to? The European Court (yeah right), Dubai Court of First Instance ? 
It's a good effort to make a stand but let's face it a quick way to loose your money too !
The Fox and Firkin
(plenty of beer to drown all woes)
It's a good effort to make a stand but let's face it a quick way to loose your money too !
The Fox and Firkin
(plenty of beer to drown all woes)
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 727
Likes: 0
From: Varies!
Apologies for the interuption.
As a lot of EK drivers will be reading this thread, please can I direct those with 'TopCover' insurance onto a thread on the Fragrant Harbour forum. Interesting discussion regarding insurance Company delaying and sometimes welshing on the Policy. This may be a good heads up to many here.
Rather than start a separate thread, just join that one. It's the same insurance Company after all!
Now.............back to this Legal action............
As a lot of EK drivers will be reading this thread, please can I direct those with 'TopCover' insurance onto a thread on the Fragrant Harbour forum. Interesting discussion regarding insurance Company delaying and sometimes welshing on the Policy. This may be a good heads up to many here.
Rather than start a separate thread, just join that one. It's the same insurance Company after all!
Now.............back to this Legal action............
Joined: Jan 2000
Posts: 543
Likes: 0
From: Australia
Perhaps times have changed, (and perhaps they haven't), but "the 12" might like to take a moment to ask one of the old hands in the company what the EK management's reaction was to just the suspicion (unfounded, as it turned out) that the then newly arrived Australian pilots in EK were attempting to form a union.
That was some 15 years ago and the Australians were very disgruntled over... gosh, was it? - could it have been DECs and upgrades at the whim of the then Chief Pilot?
Seems some things never change - and that might well include the attitude of EK management to something like this.
That was some 15 years ago and the Australians were very disgruntled over... gosh, was it? - could it have been DECs and upgrades at the whim of the then Chief Pilot?
Seems some things never change - and that might well include the attitude of EK management to something like this.
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 164
Likes: 0
From: Over Graz
Pilots suing the company for discrimination? Humm.
First, some requirements would have to be met, such as ...
1. Find a good, independent, and "macho" type of lawyer willing to take Dubai Government (EK owners) to a local court;
2. Stash aside a significant amount of money, from their pockets, to pay for the lawyer services.
Unless I am outdated regarding the practices in this country, in all probability, EK legal guys would call these pilots for a chat and try to settle things out of court. Some money would be offered and everyone would have to leave the company. I don't think EK would admit anything under a lawsuit.
Employer promises' are like Santa Claus, Easter Bunny, ghosts, stuff like that. Therefore, upgrades after a certain period of time is just that: "after."
Good luck, anyway
First, some requirements would have to be met, such as ...
1. Find a good, independent, and "macho" type of lawyer willing to take Dubai Government (EK owners) to a local court;
2. Stash aside a significant amount of money, from their pockets, to pay for the lawyer services.
Unless I am outdated regarding the practices in this country, in all probability, EK legal guys would call these pilots for a chat and try to settle things out of court. Some money would be offered and everyone would have to leave the company. I don't think EK would admit anything under a lawsuit.
Employer promises' are like Santa Claus, Easter Bunny, ghosts, stuff like that. Therefore, upgrades after a certain period of time is just that: "after."
Good luck, anyway
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 20
Likes: 0
From: uk
Good luck but claiming discrimination is a bit rich for expats isnt it?After all your not being discriminated against really are you?Just got a bum deal on your fleet allocation. 
If there was an historical precedent of continuous cross over upgrades and you were denied based on your ethnic origin with the same grades as any one else, then maybe.
One guy already hit the nail on the head. Its a national airline in name only. It was created off the shelf, designed to provide its owners with prestige.The talent was bought in, as was the infrastructure. They own it and your ass. Your choice.
Its not a Grandfather proprietry airline .Its crewed by mostly foreigners on contract, open or otherwise with immigration specifically for that job. Its not BA, or Lufthansa etc. Its an expat gig guys with the same rights as the little brown fellah falling to his death from a new constuction site on 10 dollars a day.
To think otherwise is delusional.
If there was an historical precedent of continuous cross over upgrades and you were denied based on your ethnic origin with the same grades as any one else, then maybe.One guy already hit the nail on the head. Its a national airline in name only. It was created off the shelf, designed to provide its owners with prestige.The talent was bought in, as was the infrastructure. They own it and your ass. Your choice.
Its not a Grandfather proprietry airline .Its crewed by mostly foreigners on contract, open or otherwise with immigration specifically for that job. Its not BA, or Lufthansa etc. Its an expat gig guys with the same rights as the little brown fellah falling to his death from a new constuction site on 10 dollars a day.
To think otherwise is delusional.