EK Resignations
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Building Site
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Seniority List
The best way to check people leaving is via the seniority list on the portal. It's kept very well up to date. People who are still flying in their notice period will show up of course, but once they are gone, they are also out of the seniority list. Only way to check who really left...
MR8
MR8
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Australia
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Just a question. Quite apart from the whole retention issue and the recruitment difficulties.
What would you expect to be a normal resignation rate from an expat airline with say 1500 pilots?
Maybe 200 per year? 15 or 20 a month?
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Don't misunderstand me. I'm a line guy and am happy to see upward presure on pay. But I was just thinking that you have to expect a high turnover in a place like this.
What would you expect to be a normal resignation rate from an expat airline with say 1500 pilots?
Maybe 200 per year? 15 or 20 a month?
=========
Don't misunderstand me. I'm a line guy and am happy to see upward presure on pay. But I was just thinking that you have to expect a high turnover in a place like this.
Join Date: Sep 2001
Location: Dubai
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Statistics
AN FO,
I think you need to look at the percentage resignation rate for each year and then decide for yourself if there is an increase or not.
I know the answer already, but be sure to forward it higher up because like you I think they are not looking at the right statistics.
Enjoy the math.
I think you need to look at the percentage resignation rate for each year and then decide for yourself if there is an increase or not.
I know the answer already, but be sure to forward it higher up because like you I think they are not looking at the right statistics.
Enjoy the math.
Join Date: Mar 2000
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About two years ago this airline went from a couple of resigs/retirement a year to the present rate, possibly 120+. Anecdotally, Ed said about 4% was ok for this kind of a rock show but we must be running at about 8% at the moment. I met another mate today who was resigning without a job to go to.
It has always intrigued me that for a business that strives to control cost across the park, they are happy to accept a huge training cost in terms of upgrades and transition to cover the departures. Given that the bond is $36 000 then 120 trg ocurrences (transition/upgrade) should cost the company $4 320 000 not to mention the time lost on the line.
My logic is probably wrong but it seems a huge cost for Timmy's arrogance.
It has always intrigued me that for a business that strives to control cost across the park, they are happy to accept a huge training cost in terms of upgrades and transition to cover the departures. Given that the bond is $36 000 then 120 trg ocurrences (transition/upgrade) should cost the company $4 320 000 not to mention the time lost on the line.
My logic is probably wrong but it seems a huge cost for Timmy's arrogance.
Join Date: Jun 2006
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AN FO
I see your point but EK is not a normal expat airline. 1500? nearer 2000 and they need twice as many if they are to cope with the amount of proposed aircraft due over the next few years. Any resignations hit them hard and threefold; firstly the loss of experience, secondly the need to replace those who have gone before thirdly getting the numbers they need to cope with the continued expansion.
And they are NOT coping... the stress of which is being felt throughout the training department who are trying to deal with a mixed bag of DECs, outsourced training and new 'levels' of experience generally...
EK is in a state of flux and crisis manages from day to day. Planning has historically been the weakest link together with underestimation of the pressure it has put on all of the employees in and out of the flight deck. The infrastructure just is not strong enough to cope and the results could be catastrophic.
Yes expats airlines can expect some attrition but EK needs all of the pilots (good experienced pilots) it can get and cannot afford to lose anyone. But the market is changing and EK is not what it once was and what it pays millions to appear to be. There are other options for 777/330/340 pilots with the kind of experience EK pilots have, an asset EK constantly undervalues.
The resignations will continue. My only hope is that TCs will be in sooner rather than later so that we can turn things around before it is too late... then again perhaps it already is.
I see your point but EK is not a normal expat airline. 1500? nearer 2000 and they need twice as many if they are to cope with the amount of proposed aircraft due over the next few years. Any resignations hit them hard and threefold; firstly the loss of experience, secondly the need to replace those who have gone before thirdly getting the numbers they need to cope with the continued expansion.
And they are NOT coping... the stress of which is being felt throughout the training department who are trying to deal with a mixed bag of DECs, outsourced training and new 'levels' of experience generally...
EK is in a state of flux and crisis manages from day to day. Planning has historically been the weakest link together with underestimation of the pressure it has put on all of the employees in and out of the flight deck. The infrastructure just is not strong enough to cope and the results could be catastrophic.
Yes expats airlines can expect some attrition but EK needs all of the pilots (good experienced pilots) it can get and cannot afford to lose anyone. But the market is changing and EK is not what it once was and what it pays millions to appear to be. There are other options for 777/330/340 pilots with the kind of experience EK pilots have, an asset EK constantly undervalues.
The resignations will continue. My only hope is that TCs will be in sooner rather than later so that we can turn things around before it is too late... then again perhaps it already is.
Join Date: Mar 2003
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My guess is nothing will be done to the T/C's until May 08. Any change now will only admit there is a problem and you all know that wont happen, same as off line bases wont happen.
Join Date: Sep 2003
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EK is coping well, we all know this is true because management say so!!!!!!!!!
On another topic about not coping at EK, when was the last time you saw a training department advertising in a newsletter for trainers:
They must have real problems to have to resort to a general advert. I suppose the "OPEN TO ALL" policy is just to try and get some applications no matter how suitable. My problem though is that the 'open to all' policy will backfire in time, especially as the training department has a 'no sacking policy' ie you have to resign to leave, they won't push!! Hence the reason some of the less suitable trainers got accepted and more to the point are still there!!! You can be a great pilot but this does not mean that you will automatically make a good trainer.
It is so simple,to get the experienced pilots who have something to give to training to want to become trainers you have to give them a good enough package with decent terms and conditions and also enough time off to recuperate. Until that happens there will be less and less good people willing to apply to training, you will unfortunately still get the run of the mill types!!!!
On another topic about not coping at EK, when was the last time you saw a training department advertising in a newsletter for trainers:
Join Flight Training, Help us to help you!
OPEN TO ALL
OPEN TO ALL
It is so simple,to get the experienced pilots who have something to give to training to want to become trainers you have to give them a good enough package with decent terms and conditions and also enough time off to recuperate. Until that happens there will be less and less good people willing to apply to training, you will unfortunately still get the run of the mill types!!!!
Join Date: Feb 2005
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Open to All
Yeah, it tells a story doesn't it.
When has anyone ever seen an add for training captains which effectively says "no qualifications required".
Surely another sign of the times.
V
When has anyone ever seen an add for training captains which effectively says "no qualifications required".
Surely another sign of the times.
V
Join Date: Jun 2006
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V
At least they are standardizing the training department qualifications with recruitment generally...
There is only one way we are going with all this and it's not up.
At least they are standardizing the training department qualifications with recruitment generally...
There is only one way we are going with all this and it's not up.
Join Date: May 2005
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Direct entry trainers
know what is coming next. Direct Entry Trainers. If they can't get them from within they will look elsewhere.
Probably not entirely factual but a good story none the less.
Join Date: May 2003
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Hi!
A few years ago I was very gung ho on Emirates. My buddy is interviewing in 2 weeks.
I think that I will not be applying, based on what I have read the past few months.
I am at:
Almost 4000TT
1100 PIC Jet (small)
3000 ME Jet
400 Heavy
Some Atlantic Experience
Some European Experience
Middle Eastern Experience
If I am going to apply for an international flying job like Emirates, I think I will apply at Atlas instead (they will be hiring in about 6 months).
cliff
KLRD
A few years ago I was very gung ho on Emirates. My buddy is interviewing in 2 weeks.
I think that I will not be applying, based on what I have read the past few months.
I am at:
Almost 4000TT
1100 PIC Jet (small)
3000 ME Jet
400 Heavy
Some Atlantic Experience
Some European Experience
Middle Eastern Experience
If I am going to apply for an international flying job like Emirates, I think I will apply at Atlas instead (they will be hiring in about 6 months).
cliff
KLRD
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: not in Dubai anymore
Age: 94
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cliff,
wise decision, in atlas they'll treat you with respect and you live in a free country, well at least most of the peaple think they are free.
when I joined Ek it was good but I would rather e with atlas now.
wise decision, in atlas they'll treat you with respect and you live in a free country, well at least most of the peaple think they are free.
when I joined Ek it was good but I would rather e with atlas now.