EK Resignations
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 145
Likes: 0
From: Middle East
I am not saying I agree with a bond, merely that I understand why they do it. I agree that if you come with a type rating there should be no bond. Show me a major airline that doesnt bond.
As far as a bond being borderline illegal, I cannot say because I am not a lawyer. I have been bonded 4 times in my life. One bond in my early career was deducted from my salary each month over a 2 year period. If you then stayed an extra year they would give you all the bond money back. Of course no one would stay that long. My first bond was for a Navajo of all things. This was when jobs were very scarce. I satyed 2 months and they kept half of my monthly 6500 gbp pa salary. I cant rememebr how much but the pay was crap anyway. My 3rd bond was with a charter airline. It was for 5500 gbp over 2 years. It was fair as it was my first jet job. This bond now has come and gone.
I guess if I didnt want to stay then it would have been a gross inconvienience to me. As far as being fair, well I have had my share of bonds. It hasnt affected me because I have never been in the position of wanting to leave the company prior to my bond being paid off. I know my last company actually would not take any pilot unless his bond was cleared or agreed on. So I guess walking away from paying a bond is not good as it could jeopordize your career.
Is it ethical.......... probably not.
As far as a bond being borderline illegal, I cannot say because I am not a lawyer. I have been bonded 4 times in my life. One bond in my early career was deducted from my salary each month over a 2 year period. If you then stayed an extra year they would give you all the bond money back. Of course no one would stay that long. My first bond was for a Navajo of all things. This was when jobs were very scarce. I satyed 2 months and they kept half of my monthly 6500 gbp pa salary. I cant rememebr how much but the pay was crap anyway. My 3rd bond was with a charter airline. It was for 5500 gbp over 2 years. It was fair as it was my first jet job. This bond now has come and gone.
I guess if I didnt want to stay then it would have been a gross inconvienience to me. As far as being fair, well I have had my share of bonds. It hasnt affected me because I have never been in the position of wanting to leave the company prior to my bond being paid off. I know my last company actually would not take any pilot unless his bond was cleared or agreed on. So I guess walking away from paying a bond is not good as it could jeopordize your career.
Is it ethical.......... probably not.
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 97
Likes: 0
From: suitcase
Bonds
I came from the US, and there is no such thing as being bonded to go to work for a company.
Just because all of the other companies do it (bonding) it is an isue that is odd to say the least.
I do not understand that this issue is looked upon as normal.
What other worker gets bonded for training to operate a piece of company equipment?
And furthur more, why do we as pilots accept this as normal?
I am new to the ex-pat lifestyle, but I think that to be "paying for instruction" to operate a piece of equipment that is owned and operated by someone else for their benifit is ludicrious.
I do not care how you put this issue, but plain and simple it sucks, to say the least.
I also agree with the statement from a few replies earlier, that it is just a cost of doing business that should be borne by the company, and not the employee.
If he is paid well and treated fairly, there would be no fear of him leaving in the first place.
OK let the rest of you say your part...pro or con
Pita
Just because all of the other companies do it (bonding) it is an isue that is odd to say the least.
I do not understand that this issue is looked upon as normal.
What other worker gets bonded for training to operate a piece of company equipment?
And furthur more, why do we as pilots accept this as normal?
I am new to the ex-pat lifestyle, but I think that to be "paying for instruction" to operate a piece of equipment that is owned and operated by someone else for their benifit is ludicrious.
I do not care how you put this issue, but plain and simple it sucks, to say the least.
I also agree with the statement from a few replies earlier, that it is just a cost of doing business that should be borne by the company, and not the employee.
If he is paid well and treated fairly, there would be no fear of him leaving in the first place.
OK let the rest of you say your part...pro or con
Pita
Joined: Jul 1999
Posts: 125
Likes: 0
From: Stockholm / Sweden
.... well "Uplink" - You're Way OFF man with your statement:
"Show me a major airline that doesn't bond"
O.K. There basically ALL the major North-American, Canadian, plus all the Big European operators - the likes of Air France, Alitalia, Lufthansa, Austrian, Iberia (as far as I know), KLM, SAS, Air Atlanta, BA (when i last spoke to my Ex-colleagues there) - just to name a few - and so on ...
To sum it up: Almost all the "decent airlines / Flagcarriers", who haven't to worry, that their pilots run for greener grass, just don't bond! Just simply due to the Fact, that they don't have to! Apparantly EK however has to worry (for good reasons!) that too many might leave, if they don't tie them up - due to the massively erosion of our conditions and payments over the last years! For example many of us have to work this year over x-mas AND New Year - No chance to get home and meet family and friends- That sucks!
And as i stated in the other thread: "EK-how to make a runner"
more and more will leave the sandpit, as the money and the conditions are not to appealing any more, and more positions coming up in the old, civilzed world! You bet!
"Show me a major airline that doesn't bond"
O.K. There basically ALL the major North-American, Canadian, plus all the Big European operators - the likes of Air France, Alitalia, Lufthansa, Austrian, Iberia (as far as I know), KLM, SAS, Air Atlanta, BA (when i last spoke to my Ex-colleagues there) - just to name a few - and so on ...
To sum it up: Almost all the "decent airlines / Flagcarriers", who haven't to worry, that their pilots run for greener grass, just don't bond! Just simply due to the Fact, that they don't have to! Apparantly EK however has to worry (for good reasons!) that too many might leave, if they don't tie them up - due to the massively erosion of our conditions and payments over the last years! For example many of us have to work this year over x-mas AND New Year - No chance to get home and meet family and friends- That sucks!
And as i stated in the other thread: "EK-how to make a runner"
more and more will leave the sandpit, as the money and the conditions are not to appealing any more, and more positions coming up in the old, civilzed world! You bet!
Last edited by Cyberbird; 21st December 2005 at 05:31.
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 435
Likes: 5
From: Bolivia
Cyberbird
There certainly are a lot of problems at EK, but you can hardly call having to work over christmas and new year one of them.
The aircraft have to fly. Someone has to fly them. I'm sorry that it is your turn this year. I'm sure it will be mine next year.
The aircraft have to fly. Someone has to fly them. I'm sorry that it is your turn this year. I'm sure it will be mine next year.
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 145
Likes: 0
From: Middle East
Cyber,
I will take your word for it. I have never bothered to look whether the other major airlines bond or not. The fact still stand though that in EK they bond.
I am not saying I approve but there is an option. You got the contract with the bond attached. So it was actually up to you whether to sign or not. If you are from Canada or the US and by the way you write (Hey Man !) I guess one of those, you have come from a place where there is no bonding. But you came here knowing there was a bond and you signed the bond. That with the knowledge that you didnt approve of it but wanted the job anyway. Sounds strange to me.
I feel very sorry for the guys who have signed bonds and dont want to be here anymore. I dont know what to suggest. I am fortunate to still like it here and like my job, but then I have no where else to go as it is all the same. By the way SQ bond and that would be the only other place I would consider.
I will take your word for it. I have never bothered to look whether the other major airlines bond or not. The fact still stand though that in EK they bond.
I am not saying I approve but there is an option. You got the contract with the bond attached. So it was actually up to you whether to sign or not. If you are from Canada or the US and by the way you write (Hey Man !) I guess one of those, you have come from a place where there is no bonding. But you came here knowing there was a bond and you signed the bond. That with the knowledge that you didnt approve of it but wanted the job anyway. Sounds strange to me.
I feel very sorry for the guys who have signed bonds and dont want to be here anymore. I dont know what to suggest. I am fortunate to still like it here and like my job, but then I have no where else to go as it is all the same. By the way SQ bond and that would be the only other place I would consider.
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 133
Likes: 0
From: Dubai
Leaving EK but where to go?
OK, my !!!!! bucket is starting to get full (not the money one, as 9 years in the company and my finances are crap 
), but where to go???
Guys are leaving and looking, but what is out there that's better than EK? I know that's a subjective question based on what makes you happy or what you're looking for, but what jobs have guys been leaving for?
Being your typical Brit, I don't want to move much further East than Dubai, so closer to home is my best option. However, 5 days on, two off, multiple sector days doesn't sound too appealing and I know nothing about contract work.
Is commuting a better option with a larger airline? Seems pretty tiring...
Sorry to be so vague, but I'd appreciate your thoughts please
Cheers
Keith
P.S Sensible answers only please; i don't want this to be a bun fight...
), but where to go???Guys are leaving and looking, but what is out there that's better than EK? I know that's a subjective question based on what makes you happy or what you're looking for, but what jobs have guys been leaving for?
Being your typical Brit, I don't want to move much further East than Dubai, so closer to home is my best option. However, 5 days on, two off, multiple sector days doesn't sound too appealing and I know nothing about contract work.
Is commuting a better option with a larger airline? Seems pretty tiring...
Sorry to be so vague, but I'd appreciate your thoughts please
Cheers
Keith
P.S Sensible answers only please; i don't want this to be a bun fight...
Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 99
Likes: 0
From: Sweden/Turkey
hello mate,
What types have you been flying? and how much experience do you have on type?
just have a look at pilotjobnetwork for jobs, 9 years in UAE should have given you a bunch of experience
What types have you been flying? and how much experience do you have on type?
just have a look at pilotjobnetwork for jobs, 9 years in UAE should have given you a bunch of experience
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 133
Likes: 0
From: Dubai
Thanks for the serious replies;
ETOPS: I really want my cake and eat it. Going to BA as an FO would be a little step rearwards.
Dragonair: East of DXB I'm afraid, so no good for me.
So, with over 400 viewings, I'm surprised no one else has posted. Is it a fair thing to say that there really isn't anything better out there?
Anyhow, thanks for those that posted
Regards
Keith.
ETOPS: I really want my cake and eat it. Going to BA as an FO would be a little step rearwards.
Dragonair: East of DXB I'm afraid, so no good for me.
So, with over 400 viewings, I'm surprised no one else has posted. Is it a fair thing to say that there really isn't anything better out there?
Anyhow, thanks for those that posted
Regards
Keith.
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 29
Likes: 0
From: 5th Floor
Keith
An interestng point indeed with so many viewings and so few practical responses...
Makes one wonder perhaps there is not that many options out there for you West of here and East of the Queens Country....
Would be great if the sarcasm could be kept at bay on this link and see what credible responses those in the know can offer....
An interestng point indeed with so many viewings and so few practical responses...
Makes one wonder perhaps there is not that many options out there for you West of here and East of the Queens Country....
Would be great if the sarcasm could be kept at bay on this link and see what credible responses those in the know can offer....
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 33
Likes: 0
From: dubai
Could be that no one wants to give up a potential job to one so experienced. Like the others, Ill tell you after I have the job!
However not alot to do closer to home unless you like pulling gear several times a day. Good luck though.
Once we see what the profits are in a month, and his Highness decides to share, Maybe we'll all get a little more of the pie this year?
Yah, I knew that would make you laugh!
However not alot to do closer to home unless you like pulling gear several times a day. Good luck though.
Once we see what the profits are in a month, and his Highness decides to share, Maybe we'll all get a little more of the pie this year?
Yah, I knew that would make you laugh!
Joined: Sep 1998
Posts: 869
Likes: 1
From: on the move
All you unhappy Emirates boys should go Corporate!!That where the future is, you will be appreciated for the skills you have, and you wont be doing 900 hours a year, while your Jumeirah jane roots her tennis/golf coach.