Life after EK
Join Date: Jun 1999
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411
The demise of a company's once generous T & C's and the plummeting morale is something that amuses you? You must be thankfull you attained your Licence and experience before CRM training and psychometric testing were the norm. Otherwise you'd just be another disgruntled trailer trashie with an even more poisoned outlook on life than the one you possess. How does it feel to be the most loathed pruner of all?
The demise of a company's once generous T & C's and the plummeting morale is something that amuses you? You must be thankfull you attained your Licence and experience before CRM training and psychometric testing were the norm. Otherwise you'd just be another disgruntled trailer trashie with an even more poisoned outlook on life than the one you possess. How does it feel to be the most loathed pruner of all?
Join Date: Jan 2005
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411A has landed another one with his award winning bait.
It might be smelly but it sure does work, an element of truth perhaps?
So, you get upset becasue you can't express yourself at work but it's OK to tell somone on an open forum to get lost?
I agree with 411A to a point, but the point has been made.
Some people are actually satisfied at EK and lead content lives for it. Nothing is perfect, but if you don't have anything to compare it against then I guess one will never know what is green or greener.
People will resign when you employ 1000+ pilots.
It might be smelly but it sure does work, an element of truth perhaps?
So, you get upset becasue you can't express yourself at work but it's OK to tell somone on an open forum to get lost?
I agree with 411A to a point, but the point has been made.
Some people are actually satisfied at EK and lead content lives for it. Nothing is perfect, but if you don't have anything to compare it against then I guess one will never know what is green or greener.
People will resign when you employ 1000+ pilots.
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Global Nomad
On the contrary, I don't feel that 411 is a 'Wind-up Merchant' at all. We have duelled more than once and I am of the opinion he is the type of 'Captain' CRM was designed to defeat. He has a unique blend of arrogance and ignorance and it is plain for all to see that his unemployability is getting to him. At least his 'thoughts and beliefs' raise a smile but it is rude to mock a fool.
On the contrary, I don't feel that 411 is a 'Wind-up Merchant' at all. We have duelled more than once and I am of the opinion he is the type of 'Captain' CRM was designed to defeat. He has a unique blend of arrogance and ignorance and it is plain for all to see that his unemployability is getting to him. At least his 'thoughts and beliefs' raise a smile but it is rude to mock a fool.
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411a
Quite the contrary in fact.
Several years ago it was just the same. A few seasoned campaigners were trying to spread the word about where EK was heading, but we were drowned out by the likes of White Knight et al proclaiming us to be all glass half empty guys.
I, for one, was happy that I had made my attempt to provide factual and balanced debate for those that were interested and discontinued my posts.
A couple of years later it seems that all those new lads with sand colored glasses have now become somewhat seasoned campaigners. Maybe they have had their pay and conditions screwed with a bit, maybe been lied to about the quick command they were promised, perhaps kicked out of their villa and forced to move at own expense, and lo and behold they now feel the need to spread the word about EK and its nowhere near unique management style..
Unfortunately history repeats, as it is want to do, and there is yet another batch of newbies with their shiny new Landcruiser or Beemer and flash beach club membership that they can photograph and send back to all the unfortunate souls in Blighty that havent the 'courage' to give up union protection and civilised labour laws to enjoy the fruits of the "biggest, fastest, widest, tallest, loudest, most pretentious" place on earth.
So now the story looks the same. A bunch of pissed off veterans, who apparently wouldn't be happy if they were having diamonds shoved up their a*se, and a vocal crowd of newbies proclaiming everyone else here is too bitter and twisted to see how lucky they are.
The funny thing is, that the guys complaining now are the "honeymooners" of a couple of years back.
There is something to be learned from that...................................
But only for those that want to listen.
Cop U Later
The Rev
Quite the contrary in fact.
Several years ago it was just the same. A few seasoned campaigners were trying to spread the word about where EK was heading, but we were drowned out by the likes of White Knight et al proclaiming us to be all glass half empty guys.
I, for one, was happy that I had made my attempt to provide factual and balanced debate for those that were interested and discontinued my posts.
A couple of years later it seems that all those new lads with sand colored glasses have now become somewhat seasoned campaigners. Maybe they have had their pay and conditions screwed with a bit, maybe been lied to about the quick command they were promised, perhaps kicked out of their villa and forced to move at own expense, and lo and behold they now feel the need to spread the word about EK and its nowhere near unique management style..
Unfortunately history repeats, as it is want to do, and there is yet another batch of newbies with their shiny new Landcruiser or Beemer and flash beach club membership that they can photograph and send back to all the unfortunate souls in Blighty that havent the 'courage' to give up union protection and civilised labour laws to enjoy the fruits of the "biggest, fastest, widest, tallest, loudest, most pretentious" place on earth.
So now the story looks the same. A bunch of pissed off veterans, who apparently wouldn't be happy if they were having diamonds shoved up their a*se, and a vocal crowd of newbies proclaiming everyone else here is too bitter and twisted to see how lucky they are.
The funny thing is, that the guys complaining now are the "honeymooners" of a couple of years back.
There is something to be learned from that...................................
But only for those that want to listen.
Cop U Later
The Rev
Last edited by Reverend Doctor Doug; 13th Feb 2005 at 08:36.
Join Date: Mar 2000
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Unemployability getting to me???
Pontious,
Dunno about that.
I pick and choose contracts of my choosing...and for the last few months it's been at 14k/month +perdiem +housing+ business class air transport..+++
The middle east, and specifically the air carriers doing business there have long ago realized that pilots are a dime a dozen (yes, even experienced ones, just a few short years ago) and have set their salaries accordingly.
Of course, if those that do indeed have a gripe about all this, can right and truly pull up stakes and, well.....leave.
Don't let the door smack you on your backside, on the way out.
However, I suspect that many of the comments here specifically about EK come from a disgruntled few, who more than likely would have a hard time fitting in most anywhere else.
Enjoy the sand boys...the bloom has gone off the salary rose long ago.
Dunno about that.
I pick and choose contracts of my choosing...and for the last few months it's been at 14k/month +perdiem +housing+ business class air transport..+++
The middle east, and specifically the air carriers doing business there have long ago realized that pilots are a dime a dozen (yes, even experienced ones, just a few short years ago) and have set their salaries accordingly.
Of course, if those that do indeed have a gripe about all this, can right and truly pull up stakes and, well.....leave.
Don't let the door smack you on your backside, on the way out.
However, I suspect that many of the comments here specifically about EK come from a disgruntled few, who more than likely would have a hard time fitting in most anywhere else.
Enjoy the sand boys...the bloom has gone off the salary rose long ago.
Join Date: Aug 2003
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411a,
You slag every single international carrier, including EK, CX, SIA etc....you sound chronically insecure and have likely failed in many interviews to gain access to some of these desireable positions. You probably work alongside some poor cadet that is too scared to say sh*t if his mouth was full of it, that is if you are employed at all. Your posts are predictable, one-dimensional and focus on nothing but the negative. Why not just go pay for it and take that load off, we'd all be happier.
You slag every single international carrier, including EK, CX, SIA etc....you sound chronically insecure and have likely failed in many interviews to gain access to some of these desireable positions. You probably work alongside some poor cadet that is too scared to say sh*t if his mouth was full of it, that is if you are employed at all. Your posts are predictable, one-dimensional and focus on nothing but the negative. Why not just go pay for it and take that load off, we'd all be happier.
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BYMONEK
It is a pity you do not practice what you preach.
Over on Cabin Crew Monarch or First Choice you slate someone after your posting and you said it should not be assumed that people who make negative comments have been turned down by that company!! Now you are doing exactly the same to Dicksy.
As you are 39 years old and flew for Monarch or First Choice for 14 years how come you are still a First Officer??
If you were a Captain in either then how come you did not join EK as a DEC
PS As for 411A As he is only B707 and L1011 Rated I suspect he is now retired or perhaps he was illegally flying the Haj for a short term contract as Captain or more likely as a F/O. Whatever certainly not on that Salary that is for sure as he says "a dime a dozen."
It is a pity you do not practice what you preach.
Over on Cabin Crew Monarch or First Choice you slate someone after your posting and you said it should not be assumed that people who make negative comments have been turned down by that company!! Now you are doing exactly the same to Dicksy.
As you are 39 years old and flew for Monarch or First Choice for 14 years how come you are still a First Officer??
If you were a Captain in either then how come you did not join EK as a DEC
PS As for 411A As he is only B707 and L1011 Rated I suspect he is now retired or perhaps he was illegally flying the Haj for a short term contract as Captain or more likely as a F/O. Whatever certainly not on that Salary that is for sure as he says "a dime a dozen."
Join Date: May 2001
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Why?
Why piss off 411A all the time? It does not really matter who is he or what/were he flies.
Their posts are 99% correct, unfortunately for us. Why tint things in rose, letīs take a look at reality how it is and try to make our best out of it.
The more you get angry with 411A posts the more he laughs!...
He is just an ironic guy, but to the point. Like it or not.
Their posts are 99% correct, unfortunately for us. Why tint things in rose, letīs take a look at reality how it is and try to make our best out of it.
The more you get angry with 411A posts the more he laughs!...
He is just an ironic guy, but to the point. Like it or not.
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Millerscourt
It was only meant as a little joke,Hardly a serious attack on poor dicksy.As for your question,Unless you have had a considerable amount of experience in Left seat ie 3000 hrs AND 10,000 hrs total,then you will HAVE to join as an F/O.You can,however,be fast tracked if you have 2000hrs/8000 total.You will also need to have completed 1000 hrs on Emirates type.This is the big stumbling block for many guys now as the Company will not allow Type change & Upgrade at same time.......rediculous I know.There are many guys here who have held previous commands ( 4 years in my case) who have gone back to right seat. Actually,a good refresher to iron out possible faults developed sitting in the left!
Hope that answers your question
Rgds
BYMONEK
It was only meant as a little joke,Hardly a serious attack on poor dicksy.As for your question,Unless you have had a considerable amount of experience in Left seat ie 3000 hrs AND 10,000 hrs total,then you will HAVE to join as an F/O.You can,however,be fast tracked if you have 2000hrs/8000 total.You will also need to have completed 1000 hrs on Emirates type.This is the big stumbling block for many guys now as the Company will not allow Type change & Upgrade at same time.......rediculous I know.There are many guys here who have held previous commands ( 4 years in my case) who have gone back to right seat. Actually,a good refresher to iron out possible faults developed sitting in the left!
Hope that answers your question
Rgds
BYMONEK
Join Date: Jul 2002
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BYMONEK
OIC A brave move in the circumstances. Hope it works out in the end.
BY Britannia?
MON Monarch?
EK Emirates
No surely not. I cannot believe anyone would leave Britannia to join Monarch?
OIC A brave move in the circumstances. Hope it works out in the end.
BY Britannia?
MON Monarch?
EK Emirates
No surely not. I cannot believe anyone would leave Britannia to join Monarch?
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Millerscourt
Thanks,I hope it does too.So far,no regrets but as many people often say on this site,many of us are still in the honeymoon period.Time will tell I guess!
As for the Britannia/Monarch/ Emirates link, well, that WOULD be telling now would't it. Actually,nice deduction but not quite correct, although I know of several people who did leave Britannia around 1990 and again around 93/94 when Britannia replaced all their B737's with B757's. Several people did go to Monarch. Good move for them as it turned out as Command time was about half that of Britannia.
Rgds
BYMONEK............
Thanks,I hope it does too.So far,no regrets but as many people often say on this site,many of us are still in the honeymoon period.Time will tell I guess!
As for the Britannia/Monarch/ Emirates link, well, that WOULD be telling now would't it. Actually,nice deduction but not quite correct, although I know of several people who did leave Britannia around 1990 and again around 93/94 when Britannia replaced all their B737's with B757's. Several people did go to Monarch. Good move for them as it turned out as Command time was about half that of Britannia.
Rgds
BYMONEK............
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Overseas guys...no starch anymore
A few (Millerscourt for example) might well be surprised at the salaries offed from time to time for very short term Command contracts.
Suits me to a tee, especially as our small company has interesting projects underway...which pay a whole lot more.
Now then, it seems to me that when I first went to the middle east (1971, Commander, not as a First Officer) folks had a clear idea of what was on the table, and just got on with the job.
When better prospects emerged along the way (SQ for me) off they went... always as a Commander.
None of this nonsense of moving to the RH seat, in 'hopes' of that ever elusive Command.
Except under very unusual circumstances, the above mentioned foolishness is a road to disaster...as more than a few have found out at EK by now.
Put some starch back into your backbones guys.
If EK isn't the bed of roses it once was...move along to somewhere else.
Now, having said this...sometimes the devil you know is better than the devil you don't.
Suits me to a tee, especially as our small company has interesting projects underway...which pay a whole lot more.
Now then, it seems to me that when I first went to the middle east (1971, Commander, not as a First Officer) folks had a clear idea of what was on the table, and just got on with the job.
When better prospects emerged along the way (SQ for me) off they went... always as a Commander.
None of this nonsense of moving to the RH seat, in 'hopes' of that ever elusive Command.
Except under very unusual circumstances, the above mentioned foolishness is a road to disaster...as more than a few have found out at EK by now.
Put some starch back into your backbones guys.
If EK isn't the bed of roses it once was...move along to somewhere else.
Now, having said this...sometimes the devil you know is better than the devil you don't.
Join Date: Jun 2004
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Career progress...Go figure...
Took a look at the figures, re-checked and checked again after comments were made at work:
Currently, the difference in pay for a upgraded F/O, 3-4 years in company prior to upgrade; approx 200 Euro/150 UKPs! (Based on Ģ/$ 5.2 on joining wage 18,000. Upgrade Ģ/$ 7.2 Wage 26,000).
Still not EKs problem but no wonder many on Parcs books now.
Currently, the difference in pay for a upgraded F/O, 3-4 years in company prior to upgrade; approx 200 Euro/150 UKPs! (Based on Ģ/$ 5.2 on joining wage 18,000. Upgrade Ģ/$ 7.2 Wage 26,000).
Still not EKs problem but no wonder many on Parcs books now.
Last edited by Shake; 15th Feb 2005 at 08:20.
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do you guys still believe in 3 years to command?
there are almost no upgrades on the bus, that means there are not enough pilots to run the fleet.
got an email last week like many others that the company will give me this year only 14 days of leave instead of 42.
of course they will decide when I go on leave.
there are almost no upgrades on the bus, that means there are not enough pilots to run the fleet.
got an email last week like many others that the company will give me this year only 14 days of leave instead of 42.
of course they will decide when I go on leave.
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Apart from being one of the most entertaining posters on the forum, and also a better speller than most, 411A is also right about the command.
Once you have the command NEVER give it up. Plenty of DEC jobs out there if you have the type, which these days seems to be the A330. If you don't, then perhaps consider staying where you are, rather than take the right-hand-seat in unchartered territory. The command itself is job satisfaction.
Che
Once you have the command NEVER give it up. Plenty of DEC jobs out there if you have the type, which these days seems to be the A330. If you don't, then perhaps consider staying where you are, rather than take the right-hand-seat in unchartered territory. The command itself is job satisfaction.
Che