Does King rule aviation safety?

[manincrz2937]

Hello, there.

I have heard strange news from colleague pilot.

In some of the middle east – I’m not sure it is QR or else – airlines. The company push the pilot to fly 11 hr or so with just one captain and F/O,

But is it true?
When I questioned about it and told to my friend “11 hr from push back to ramp in is simply not possible”.
My friend told me that he have heard that from a ex-qatar captain indirectly.

On the next flight, one of local captain also told same story to me and added it is because most of the middle east country are ruled by king, the normal aviation rule can’t apply to the pilots. The king can change aviation rule in his way. So some of the expat was coming from middle east to korea.

But I’m not sure. I have seen lots of deception from company for last decade and they used to manipulate pilot’s opinion under the name of “ some source say….”. Recently several captain and F/Os leave this company. And company doesn’t like it.

So here, I’m asking for your help.

Is it true? Do they really let pilot fly 11 hrs with just one captain and F/O and give multiple leg with less than minimum layover time? Is it so harsh to work.

[ironbutt57]

Some companies if not all have a proviso in the FTL's regarding Royal command..involving flights carrying VVVVVVVip's but your friends story sounds like a load of rubbish..remember they have insurance companies and the lot to answer to..believe you me, the FTL's I operate under here are strictly imposed, and much more comprehensive and safe than the FAA one I used to operate under years back...

[manincrz2937]

Thanks for your reply.

I appreciate for your kind reply, ironbutt57.

I knew it. It can't be true.

but in other way, I'm so shamed that I should live with this kind of deception.

I hope that I can get out of here soon like other guys.

thank you and happy flight.

[Payscale]

Royal Flight are governed by private flying rules. Not public tranportation rules. Hence, no real limitation.

My companys max FDP is 14 hours. From 1 hour before flight to Park Brake on. Certain conditions apply...as they say on TV

[loc22550]

We do have some time in QR...But with one CPT and 2 F/O.
The second F/O sitting on the jump seat for 11h officially for extra monitoring and vigilance!! And None of the crew (cabin and cockpit) are officially allowed to have a real rest time,only allowed for cockpit to take a "control" rest on their seat!!
Still today i don´t understand that procedure and where is the safety as all the crew arrive tired at destination...

[pissedoffpilotek]

per -dxb is about 11 hours which ek have to do with 3 pilots Kix dxb is the same, however we have some bull**** variations to the ftl's one which adds 30 mins to the max duty period on a 2 sector day providing no sector is greater than 7 hrs 30 mins. Therefore we used to have a pattern that went dxb bkk cgk layover and the return left cgk about midnight 3 hrs 20 blk time to bkk sit on the ground for 60- 90 mins then bkk dxb which was in the winter close to 7 hrs!.....a longer more tiring duty than per dxb however still legal to do with 2 pilots....magic really.
seoul dubai we operated with 2 pilots for at least a year...almost illegal every day and eventually after about 200 asr 's and fatigue reports we now use 3 pilots.
but dont think this is isolated to ME carriers. a friend of mine in CX went hkg bah then back to dxb with 2 pilots.....sounds like a long day too.

[manincrz2937]

let me arrange.

First of all, I really appreciate for you guy's replies.

Let me arrange one at a time.

Payscale.
Does Royal Flight mean Scheduled airlines like EK, QR, CX? Or else.
Would you kindly describe more detail on “certain conditions”?
What is the maximum you have experienced in your airlines with one captain and F/O ?

loc22550.
Wow….It sound like modified 3 pilot system – but more sound like 2 pilot and one observer - . so should captain stay on left seat for 11 hrs? or they change seats like any other 3 pilot system.
In our case we fly 1 captain 2 F/O for 12 hrs schedule time(which usually means from T/O to L/D ). but captain should stay in the cockpit area (like bunk) in his rest time which is 1/3 of flight time and the other 2 F/O , actually 1 Relief captain who is senior F/O and 1 F/O ,take control at captain’s rest time..( for 2 captain 1 F/O flight time can be extend to 13 hrs. )
The reason I describe our situation is because I’m not familiar with foreign system. and I want prevent same word different meaning.

pissedoffek.
One cap & f/o fly from DBX and land BKK then take off right away to CGK in same aircraft sameday. Am I right? I’m confusing. So if each sector have 7 hrs,, can EK makes one captain and f/o fly 14hrs in a row with one quick stop? Wow…O.M.G.

We have similar one. SIN – PEN –ICN. In same day, at the same aircraft with one cap and F/O.
we also have schedule Inchon-anchorage-newyork (or Chicago) in a row. same day, same aircraft, night departure. But anyway 2 cap and 2 f/o.

I wonder what management guys think. We are not machine.