That pesky 900 hour FTL.
Thread Starter
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: 1st floor
Posts: 1
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
That pesky 900 hour FTL.
Now here's an idea that might fix EK's current under crewing situation.
Take any flight deck crew member who's flown more than 830 hours in the last 11 months and roster him for 20 hours Simulator Support in his 12th month of duty and then roster him for up to 69 hours of flying duties as well.
This could get an extra 20 hours of monthly duty out of any high houred crew member. But to make sure that the guys don't get overloaded the sim sessions shoudn't be rostered at nightime.
If there's any doubt about the legality of this then why not publish the policy in the Fleet Update newsletter? Better than announcing it in the FCI's or FOM where the Regulatory Authority might get sight of it.
This policy would ensure that the poor buggers who have worked their backsides off in the last year will have no letup. 5 x 4 hour sessions of non stop abnormals and emergencies in the simulator on top of their flight duties should keep them up to speed.
As the company is just as short staffed in the crew scheduling office as it is in flight crew why not help out by agreeing that all roster swaps requested by crew be made at least 48 hours before the flight? Obviously the company would retain the right to change a crew members roster at any time up to and even after the duty report time.
On another subject and to encourage the crews to carry less fuel why not announce in the Fuel Update newsletter that in the last 3 months there have been no low fuel reports submitted and therefore it appears that too much fuel is being carried. A low fuel report is made after an aircraft lands with less than Company Minimum Reserve fuel (a very low amount) and having declared a Mayday in accordance with the FOM.
Clearly EK is not having enough emergencies and this could be rectified easily just by carrying a bit less fuel.
And whilst on the subject of fuel do make sure that when refuelling is completed there's no more than flight plan fuel in the tanks. This will ensure that when the engineer completes the tech log about 10 minutes later the entries will show at least 200 kg less than the required flight plan fuel. This may be of interest to the investigator of any reportable incident when they take a close look at the flight documentation at a later date.
Just some ideas, throw them in the air etc.
Take any flight deck crew member who's flown more than 830 hours in the last 11 months and roster him for 20 hours Simulator Support in his 12th month of duty and then roster him for up to 69 hours of flying duties as well.
This could get an extra 20 hours of monthly duty out of any high houred crew member. But to make sure that the guys don't get overloaded the sim sessions shoudn't be rostered at nightime.
If there's any doubt about the legality of this then why not publish the policy in the Fleet Update newsletter? Better than announcing it in the FCI's or FOM where the Regulatory Authority might get sight of it.
This policy would ensure that the poor buggers who have worked their backsides off in the last year will have no letup. 5 x 4 hour sessions of non stop abnormals and emergencies in the simulator on top of their flight duties should keep them up to speed.
As the company is just as short staffed in the crew scheduling office as it is in flight crew why not help out by agreeing that all roster swaps requested by crew be made at least 48 hours before the flight? Obviously the company would retain the right to change a crew members roster at any time up to and even after the duty report time.
On another subject and to encourage the crews to carry less fuel why not announce in the Fuel Update newsletter that in the last 3 months there have been no low fuel reports submitted and therefore it appears that too much fuel is being carried. A low fuel report is made after an aircraft lands with less than Company Minimum Reserve fuel (a very low amount) and having declared a Mayday in accordance with the FOM.
Clearly EK is not having enough emergencies and this could be rectified easily just by carrying a bit less fuel.
And whilst on the subject of fuel do make sure that when refuelling is completed there's no more than flight plan fuel in the tanks. This will ensure that when the engineer completes the tech log about 10 minutes later the entries will show at least 200 kg less than the required flight plan fuel. This may be of interest to the investigator of any reportable incident when they take a close look at the flight documentation at a later date.
Just some ideas, throw them in the air etc.
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Dunesville
Posts: 339
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Whilst they're at it why not get the crew to study at home, in their own time with no credit and save a day or two of ground school thus getting even more work out of the them to make up for those leaving and others not turning up for courses...and it's cost neutral, hoorah!
Oh, and as crews are not fatigued enough let's apply to the GCAA for a 1000 hour FTL per annum... that'll get rid of the 900 FTL problem... it's magic.
The only way it will change is with the safety audit that will come after our first accident...which is being made more and more likely by those who should know better...it's criminal.
It is up to us to resist: Do not fly fatigued. Submit ASRs when fatigued. Do not fly on your days off. Do not 'sell' your leave back. Do not take flight planned fuel which in your experience of a wide and constantly changing route network appears too little (nb: add the stress of minimum fuel to that of fatigue and we will increase our chances of an incident).
'They' are responsible for the worsening situation but remember: 'We' are accountable.
Oh, and as crews are not fatigued enough let's apply to the GCAA for a 1000 hour FTL per annum... that'll get rid of the 900 FTL problem... it's magic.
The only way it will change is with the safety audit that will come after our first accident...which is being made more and more likely by those who should know better...it's criminal.
It is up to us to resist: Do not fly fatigued. Submit ASRs when fatigued. Do not fly on your days off. Do not 'sell' your leave back. Do not take flight planned fuel which in your experience of a wide and constantly changing route network appears too little (nb: add the stress of minimum fuel to that of fatigue and we will increase our chances of an incident).
'They' are responsible for the worsening situation but remember: 'We' are accountable.
Last edited by Marooned; 9th Sep 2006 at 20:30.
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Dubai
Posts: 54
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
What will be good magic is when those Captains resign to go to Jetstar as the only captains resigning so far are the trainer Captains. There are many more that have applied to other airlines and many waiting to resign. I really sometimes wish I was at some of the management meetings, but then sometimes I think that they really don't care. Nearly 1% of the pilots resigning in September and 2 and half% off sick, is that good or bad? Or maybe that's normal?
Does anyone know if the hours spent in an approved simulator count toward the annual 900 hour flying limit????
I know EK don't count it, just curious about the real world?? JAA,FAA,CAA etc. Seem to recall that CAA included it, just not 100% sure.
I ask as a 900hr pilot with sim support pre-assigned and scattered through my top bid roster.
Roster isn't out for Oct , and wont be for weeks yet, and that in itself is another story,
but I will make a wild arsed guess that I will be on the jump-seat babysitting for at least a couple of sectors next month...but it's legal is the cry.....well of coarse it is ,if you make the fekin' ( Gaelic spelling) rules.
I know EK don't count it, just curious about the real world?? JAA,FAA,CAA etc. Seem to recall that CAA included it, just not 100% sure.
I ask as a 900hr pilot with sim support pre-assigned and scattered through my top bid roster.
Roster isn't out for Oct , and wont be for weeks yet, and that in itself is another story,
but I will make a wild arsed guess that I will be on the jump-seat babysitting for at least a couple of sectors next month...but it's legal is the cry.....well of coarse it is ,if you make the fekin' ( Gaelic spelling) rules.
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Luton
Age: 59
Posts: 316
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
The best thing ever said on PPRuNe:
It's so bloody good, it's pure poetry. In fact I'm going to give it the honour of having it's own thread!
Marooned, I salute you Sir!
'They' are responsible for the worsening situation but remember: 'We' are accountable.
Marooned, I salute you Sir!
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: building site
Posts: 82
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Yip, "they" are stirring it up again.
"Do not be defensive when we call you to discuss your extra fuel decision"
"We, should all make an effort"
Yeah, "you" well rested with every weekend off, making a decision over tuna or cheese sandwich for lunch.
The real "we" tired at 2am, feeling threatened and pissed off.
Someone once said:"this is the end, this is the end my friend" Jim R.I.P.
"Do not be defensive when we call you to discuss your extra fuel decision"
"We, should all make an effort"
Yeah, "you" well rested with every weekend off, making a decision over tuna or cheese sandwich for lunch.
The real "we" tired at 2am, feeling threatened and pissed off.
Someone once said:"this is the end, this is the end my friend" Jim R.I.P.
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Dubai
Posts: 229
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I like your thinking
To answer your question 145qrh
The UK CAA take the view that you can be rosterd to do simm or ground duties during your "recovery" month when you have exceeded the 900hrs.
The only limitation being that you do not go over your duty hours.
Bit crook if your getting pre-assigned simm duties during your Top Bid month.
Not cricket mate!
Does anyone know if the hours spent in an approved simulator count toward the annual 900 hour flying limit????
The only limitation being that you do not go over your duty hours.
Bit crook if your getting pre-assigned simm duties during your Top Bid month.
Not cricket mate!
Join Date: Aug 2000
Posts: 665
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
What will be good magic is when those Captains resign to go to Jetstar as the only captains resigning so far are the trainer Captains. There are many more that have applied to other airlines and many waiting to resign. I really sometimes wish I was at some of the management meetings, but then sometimes I think that they really don't care. Nearly 1% of the pilots resigning in September and 2 and half% off sick, is that good or bad? Or maybe that's normal?
Hands up who’s been in EK long enough to remember one R. Miserly bin Beancounter actually suggesting at a meeting of senior management some years ago that they should encourage more senior pilots to resign by not offering any inducements for seniority, as they were more expensive than new captains?
Such is the ignorance within senior management of what the job of captaining an aircraft entails, there are people in senior airline management who today actually think this way.
Join Date: Mar 2000
Posts: 80
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Manual roster adjustments
It's past time that people realise the (late) published roster is purely a suggestion as to what your month might entail.
It is up to us to adjust it for manual insertions and other unrequested trips by substitution of open time trips and other nefarious means.
It is up to us to adjust it for manual insertions and other unrequested trips by substitution of open time trips and other nefarious means.
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Dublin
Posts: 1,806
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I dont know how your relevant airlines in the gulf or doing it but Im currently under the haze of 900hours at the moment (as cabin crew but its the same for the chaps up the front) and I am still being rostered trips, albeit last minute and under the pretence that the company can use me if they are desperate!!! Seems like a bit of a farce if you ask me!
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: The Pilot Grinder
Posts: 362
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Have got to the point now that I don't waist my time bidding anymore....... why spend 2hrs on CRS and get inserted trips and sim support... in your top bid month!!
TCAS' fuel policy whilst that of JAR, will one day cause more than a few bucks of fuel being saved it will result a major incident....
"Bing".... "crossfeeds on" standard now on the 343, when crew insist on OFP.
TCAS' fuel policy whilst that of JAR, will one day cause more than a few bucks of fuel being saved it will result a major incident....
"Bing".... "crossfeeds on" standard now on the 343, when crew insist on OFP.
:-) (-:
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Austria
Posts: 127
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
apaddyinuk
At least you still have sort of the 900 hour limit in the cabin. At EK it was abolished in 2004. I kinda liked the way they did it - all you got was a revision of SOP manual with the new duty time limitations (the main change: from 100 block hours to 210 duty hours / month) and on one page there was somewhere in between a sentence reading something like (don't have the manual anymore to verify the exact words):
"The yearly limit of the flight deck crew does not apply to the cabin crew"
At least you still have sort of the 900 hour limit in the cabin. At EK it was abolished in 2004. I kinda liked the way they did it - all you got was a revision of SOP manual with the new duty time limitations (the main change: from 100 block hours to 210 duty hours / month) and on one page there was somewhere in between a sentence reading something like (don't have the manual anymore to verify the exact words):
"The yearly limit of the flight deck crew does not apply to the cabin crew"
