Ek Fdm/foqa
Joined: Sep 1999
Posts: 277
Likes: 0
From: Australia
Did you do something bad and not confess or are you just enquireing?
It has been my experience that if it was not life threatening and / or blatantly stupid then you may be asked in by the safety dept for a chat. Depending on how you do there, will determine whether it goes to the Boss or not.
It has been my experience that if it was not life threatening and / or blatantly stupid then you may be asked in by the safety dept for a chat. Depending on how you do there, will determine whether it goes to the Boss or not.
Joined: Nov 2003
Aviation Qualifications: ATP+Mil
Posts: 444
Likes: 0
From: Terra Firma
Love the new name Acceleration 8G with the thread title 
Honesty in aviation is always the best answer, you don't know what "THEY" can see that you can't. If something did happen and you didn't own up, then the sh1t will be coming, not by the bucket but bathtub load.
If something did happen, also if there is a trend for it, then owning up will allow others to possibly avoid a mistake, knowing what mistakes were made in the past.
I owned up about a small incident (FOQA), Flight Safety said they don't want to know as it wasn't a safety incident, and pilot manager said it was a FS issue. At least I had resolved myself from the problem by owning up that it was a spike on the tapes, never heard another thing. Miss telling someone for several events and the management & FS might probe your other flights to see what else you try to keep secret!
Happy flying, stay safe and honest and worry free
j s
Honesty in aviation is always the best answer, you don't know what "THEY" can see that you can't. If something did happen and you didn't own up, then the sh1t will be coming, not by the bucket but bathtub load.
If something did happen, also if there is a trend for it, then owning up will allow others to possibly avoid a mistake, knowing what mistakes were made in the past.
I owned up about a small incident (FOQA), Flight Safety said they don't want to know as it wasn't a safety incident, and pilot manager said it was a FS issue. At least I had resolved myself from the problem by owning up that it was a spike on the tapes, never heard another thing. Miss telling someone for several events and the management & FS might probe your other flights to see what else you try to keep secret!
Happy flying, stay safe and honest and worry free
j s
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 32
Likes: 0
From: doha
FOQA
We all, at one time or the other, make mistakes in our careers, whether it be in aviation or some other job. Only difference is that in this line of work, we may make only one big mistake which may cost lives. The likelihood of other incidents such as unstabilized approaches, overspeeds, and the likes will always be present, however it is really up to us and the other pilots up there with us to realize it and swiftly correct the situation before it gets out of hand. As I said, we all make mistakes, whats important is that we realize that we are not immune from it, that we accept the responsibility , learn from it so it doesn't happen again and move on, having had the experience at hand so as to make us better pilots, and people at that..
Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 768
Likes: 0
From: Dubai
You will be judged on the outcome of any event not your mistakes.
If it didn't get the company in the paper, cost money or God forbid, upset the Network, it will be dealt with fairly professionally. If you did any of the above, it will be used against you.
If it didn't get the company in the paper, cost money or God forbid, upset the Network, it will be dealt with fairly professionally. If you did any of the above, it will be used against you.
Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 444
Likes: 0
From: The Beach
Just remember that anything you say can and will, be written down, messed about with and then used to stitch you up....
Emirates has used Foqa/Qar for discipline, in fact it doesn't even have to be Foqa data used to stitch people up, un-corroborated grassing up by fellow "crew" members or travelling spouses also does the trick.
And before I get flamed, I have no problem with the correct use of QAR data, trend monitoring or increasing awareness of potential safety issues etc, and also to catch out the potentially stupid.
In the right hands it is a fantastic tool , but to ASR yourself for taxi-speed exceedance when back-tracking a runway seems to miss the whole point.
I would like EK flight safety to start publishing some sort of monthly or quarterly safety digest highlighting problem areas or Non-compliance with SOP's. We do get the weekly ASR list but it doesn't give any feedback, or show trends, its packed full of ARS's pointing out useful titbit's ie." if ATC has turned us in early we could have become unstable" -- useful...NOT
We know they have this information, but it seems to held as some sort of state secret , passing it out to the troops on the line would be of great benefit , after all we are the ones who need to know..
After all it's better to avoid an incident than to catch someone..sorry having a flashback to a proper flight safety department..
Emirates has used Foqa/Qar for discipline, in fact it doesn't even have to be Foqa data used to stitch people up, un-corroborated grassing up by fellow "crew" members or travelling spouses also does the trick.
And before I get flamed, I have no problem with the correct use of QAR data, trend monitoring or increasing awareness of potential safety issues etc, and also to catch out the potentially stupid.
In the right hands it is a fantastic tool , but to ASR yourself for taxi-speed exceedance when back-tracking a runway seems to miss the whole point.
I would like EK flight safety to start publishing some sort of monthly or quarterly safety digest highlighting problem areas or Non-compliance with SOP's. We do get the weekly ASR list but it doesn't give any feedback, or show trends, its packed full of ARS's pointing out useful titbit's ie." if ATC has turned us in early we could have become unstable" -- useful...NOT
We know they have this information, but it seems to held as some sort of state secret , passing it out to the troops on the line would be of great benefit , after all we are the ones who need to know..
After all it's better to avoid an incident than to catch someone..sorry having a flashback to a proper flight safety department..
Thread Starter
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 3
Likes: 0
From: pluto
Safety Info
Originally Posted by 145qrh
I would like EK flight safety to start publishing some sort of monthly or quarterly safety digest highlighting problem areas or Non-compliance with SOP's. We do get the weekly ASR list but it doesn't give any feedback, or show trends,
After all it's better to avoid an incident than to catch someone..sorry having a flashback to a proper flight safety department..
After all it's better to avoid an incident than to catch someone..sorry having a flashback to a proper flight safety department..
I am not working for EK, but was just curious to get a feel of "flight safety culture" at EK.
Anyone knows how many ppl working in the flight safety dept at EK?
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 29
Likes: 0
From: Dubai U.A.E.
Safety Culture...........or not.
The company has yet to disseminate information to the pilot body regarding a near hull loss two years ago so why would they start sharing safety information now. That would be tantamount to an admission that we have a few problems here and there, which does not sit well with the culture of the airline. I personally am surprised that the group hasn't yet found a way to give itself a safety award much the same way that it manufactures service awards.
As for our newly arrived rubber stamp "human factors manager" what a laugh. His presentation and subsequent dialogue at a meeting of Training Captains recently was sad affirmation of how deeply the EK managers have their heads buried in the sand with only their ar__s protruding in readiness for a further injection of company dogma.
As for our newly arrived rubber stamp "human factors manager" what a laugh. His presentation and subsequent dialogue at a meeting of Training Captains recently was sad affirmation of how deeply the EK managers have their heads buried in the sand with only their ar__s protruding in readiness for a further injection of company dogma.
Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 444
Likes: 0
From: The Beach
Unfortunately in EK the amount of people working in any department has little bearing on the amount of work that is being done...or to put it another way...the only part of flight ops that is suffering shortages is line crew.
Our safety department is fully staffed and has the most wonderful Foqa software capable of giving breakdowns of just about any data you could wish for, and displaying it in the most wonderful arrays of colour that a Peacock would be proud of.....it's just they "choose" not to disseminate it...
The reason I know this is because after a recent event that I was involved in they could tell us at the de-brief of the other almost identical events over the past year or so.....and a couple since....marvellous.....!!!!!!
Our safety department is fully staffed and has the most wonderful Foqa software capable of giving breakdowns of just about any data you could wish for, and displaying it in the most wonderful arrays of colour that a Peacock would be proud of.....it's just they "choose" not to disseminate it...
The reason I know this is because after a recent event that I was involved in they could tell us at the de-brief of the other almost identical events over the past year or so.....and a couple since....marvellous.....!!!!!!
Thread Starter
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 3
Likes: 0
From: pluto
Originally Posted by picu
Journo alert? Why else would anyone want to know how many people work in Flt Safety at EK?
Watch it Gents......
Watch it Gents......
. The reason why i was interested in getting info about EK flight safety dept is because i have been thinking of applying for a job there. But by the sound of things if the safety dept is only out to "catch" ppl out rather then making any active contribution towards improving flight safety, then i dont see much point in sending application.
