Wall Street Journal on Expat Pilots (including EK)
So, things at USair were very good and now they are very bad.
Things at EK were quite good and now they are quite bad.
During this process USair has apparently declined further than Emirates, typhoonpilot has first hand knowledge of this, I do not.
Difference is that USair has probably bottomed out, EK is still sinking. The problems are different, the result is the same.
Disgruntled employees looking for an out.
Doubtless Direct Entry and Accelerated Commands act as softeners to the perspectives of Captain Murray and typhoonpilot.
The perspective of many others in EK, particularly the long termers, is one of more work, less reward, increase in fatigue enhancing rosters and a seniority list thrown aside and overidden by DECs and fleet requirements.
And please, 330 man, no more comments about voting with feet. Although many have done so, as many in the last 18 months as in the 10 years before, others have family considerations that make an uprooting appear even less attractive than staying (so far). And they may be the most vocal people on this forum.
Things at EK were quite good and now they are quite bad.
During this process USair has apparently declined further than Emirates, typhoonpilot has first hand knowledge of this, I do not.
Difference is that USair has probably bottomed out, EK is still sinking. The problems are different, the result is the same.
Disgruntled employees looking for an out.
Doubtless Direct Entry and Accelerated Commands act as softeners to the perspectives of Captain Murray and typhoonpilot.
The perspective of many others in EK, particularly the long termers, is one of more work, less reward, increase in fatigue enhancing rosters and a seniority list thrown aside and overidden by DECs and fleet requirements.
And please, 330 man, no more comments about voting with feet. Although many have done so, as many in the last 18 months as in the 10 years before, others have family considerations that make an uprooting appear even less attractive than staying (so far). And they may be the most vocal people on this forum.
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I bashed Brian, and I happen to be happy at EK too. The two positions aren't mutually exclusive. He has "management wannabe" written all over him. I find it quite revolting to see him in action actually. Yes, to each his own, that's true. However, I hear he has become, or is about to become a TRI. Watch this space and mark my words, you'll see that guy in flight ops management in short order. If he becomes CPA or anything along those lines I'll be the first one to put in for a transition to the 'Dark Side' (the boeing fleet), 9 day trips not withstanding, as it would be by far the lesser of two evils. It is an extremely rare event for me to meet someone and develop a strong dislike for them in a matter of minutes. Mr. Murray holds this distinction. I don't bash him for being happy here. It's just that, for other reasons, I suspect that he has ulterior motives. Well hey, he did manage to get his likeness in the WSJ, so that must count for something
Yardman
Yardman
I sure am glad this article was not printed before any pay review...Doh!
I might have to talk to the EK pilot rep that sits on the pay review board to see what effect it has had....oops, sorry, I forgot this is EK.
We all know that this is a PR push by a desperate company. What choice did the fella have but to quote the company line. Seems this is his holy grail of a job, and you can not expect him to throw his only chance of feeding himself away.
Three failed road shows and now the use of a US rag trying to get people. I wonder what they will discover next?
Don.
I might have to talk to the EK pilot rep that sits on the pay review board to see what effect it has had....oops, sorry, I forgot this is EK.
We all know that this is a PR push by a desperate company. What choice did the fella have but to quote the company line. Seems this is his holy grail of a job, and you can not expect him to throw his only chance of feeding himself away.
Three failed road shows and now the use of a US rag trying to get people. I wonder what they will discover next?
Don.
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Hi Guys
We need captainjohndo to repost his deleted response. Fact or fiction who knows...it was still great.
Cant wait to meet this self proclaimed Guru in the sim.....I am sure he is a very very very very nice guy.
Well guys it looks like we are all on individual contracts. I am off to the office to get myself a raise
Hmmmmm.
......... I wonder if I should start playing golf first..... then asked them on the 9th for 10%....let them win the next few holes and by the 15th I should be good for 20%.....give the bosses an hand on the 18th to pull a great round by dropping a few shots......and at the 19th, while buying endless amounts of Dutch courage, hit them up for a good 30%.
Now thats the way to do business.
Does everybody in America want to go Hollywood? EK is starting to sound like Amercain Idol.......its all about the audition.
Well done cowboy....you are going to be very famous around these here parts.
Off to the office......vvvvvrrrrrrrmmmmmmmmmm!!!!!!! ssssccccrrrrreeeeeeccccchhhhhhhhhhh. ...changed my mind...I am going to the beach.
TR
We need captainjohndo to repost his deleted response. Fact or fiction who knows...it was still great.
Cant wait to meet this self proclaimed Guru in the sim.....I am sure he is a very very very very nice guy.
Well guys it looks like we are all on individual contracts. I am off to the office to get myself a raise
Hmmmmm.
......... I wonder if I should start playing golf first..... then asked them on the 9th for 10%....let them win the next few holes and by the 15th I should be good for 20%.....give the bosses an hand on the 18th to pull a great round by dropping a few shots......and at the 19th, while buying endless amounts of Dutch courage, hit them up for a good 30%. Now thats the way to do business.
Does everybody in America want to go Hollywood? EK is starting to sound like Amercain Idol.......its all about the audition.
Well done cowboy....you are going to be very famous around these here parts.
Off to the office......vvvvvrrrrrrrmmmmmmmmmm!!!!!!! ssssccccrrrrreeeeeeccccchhhhhhhhhhh. ...changed my mind...I am going to the beach.
TR
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Capt Brian has all the right in the world to be happy, and, 330 man's post stated some very good advice as to being what you want when you want......
But when I've to endure a DEC ex US Air dude that has done nothing better to do than whine about the training, the culture and that "in US Air we did it this way and we did it that way", and Fo's should only speak when required to, you've got to wonder what were the elite of American aviation thinking coming here!
Sure his name is "Brian"? or did he shave the goatie off.
But when I've to endure a DEC ex US Air dude that has done nothing better to do than whine about the training, the culture and that "in US Air we did it this way and we did it that way", and Fo's should only speak when required to, you've got to wonder what were the elite of American aviation thinking coming here!
Sure his name is "Brian"? or did he shave the goatie off.
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I wonder what BRIAN would have said, 5 or 6 years ago, if USair had decided they needed to recruit DEC's to keep the costs down. So they searched the world for a few qualified guys and managed to attract a couple of boeing and airbus qualified captains from the middle east who, conveniently for them, slotted in ahead of say 600 F/O's who were equally, or perhaps more, qualified to do the job of a captain, but hey, the company needed to save money.
Then after being in USair for a while, on captains salary of course, decided he should speak to his fellow aviators still in the middle east and tell them what a great job USair is. Man you just pitch up and step straight into the left hand seat. How good is that. You guys should come on over. Sure you're screwing the careers of several hundred F/O's but don't worry about that. Look after number one I say!
When BRIAN next goes flying and finds that the F/O has sh*t in his shoes while he was out having a p*ss. Maybe he should take time to reflect just how inflamatory his little cameo in the WSJ might be percieved by some displaced F/O.
Then after being in USair for a while, on captains salary of course, decided he should speak to his fellow aviators still in the middle east and tell them what a great job USair is. Man you just pitch up and step straight into the left hand seat. How good is that. You guys should come on over. Sure you're screwing the careers of several hundred F/O's but don't worry about that. Look after number one I say!
When BRIAN next goes flying and finds that the F/O has sh*t in his shoes while he was out having a p*ss. Maybe he should take time to reflect just how inflamatory his little cameo in the WSJ might be percieved by some displaced F/O.
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It appears that some of the poor folks who have recently joined EK having turned their backs on the grand 'ol U.S.of A. are still suffering from shell shock and what must have been severe torture at their previous carriers.
Some form of the "Stockholm Syndrome" seems to have inflicted them, as it seems to do with most new joiners at EK...sad really.
Maybe talking to the media from a position of total ignorance or is it total arrogance is theraputic for some.
Some form of the "Stockholm Syndrome" seems to have inflicted them, as it seems to do with most new joiners at EK...sad really.
Maybe talking to the media from a position of total ignorance or is it total arrogance is theraputic for some.
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I do believe brother Brian will be crawling into the CBC next time wearing an Abiya. ps I dont know how to spell "abiya" nor do I care. After all the years here I still can't spell araprick. !!! 
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Oh Brian what a complete and utter idiot you are, you have managed to make yourself the most hated person in EK very well done.
You join a company stepping over F/O's as you go and then have the cheek to say how great life is, well i can safely say that your life will will probably not be as happy from now on as you will be held in utter contempt by your collegues. I think they have names for people like you stateside.
You join a company stepping over F/O's as you go and then have the cheek to say how great life is, well i can safely say that your life will will probably not be as happy from now on as you will be held in utter contempt by your collegues. I think they have names for people like you stateside.
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I realize this is like tilting at windmills with you guys, but I have to chime in yet again.
The EK roadshows are not aimed at DECs specifically. They are informational presentations to let the wider pilot population know more details about a career at Emirates. Some people who are DEC qualified do attend, but the majority are ones who would like to join as First Officers. Many airlines present at job fairs; including Cathay Pacific, Southwest, Air India, etc. They are airlines that are looking for pilots. As it is becoming an increasingly tight market the airlines that actively advertise for pilots will be able to attract better qualified applicants.
The use of the term Sxxx for anyone other than a person who crosses a union picket line is incorrect and, quite honestly, stupid. As has been said on this forum many times, those of you who do leave EK will most likely be doing so as DECs at another airline so get off your high horses in regards to the name calling ( P.S. this does not mean I endorse DECs, it's just that you can't blame the person who takes an opportunity offered. )
Typhoonpilot
The EK roadshows are not aimed at DECs specifically. They are informational presentations to let the wider pilot population know more details about a career at Emirates. Some people who are DEC qualified do attend, but the majority are ones who would like to join as First Officers. Many airlines present at job fairs; including Cathay Pacific, Southwest, Air India, etc. They are airlines that are looking for pilots. As it is becoming an increasingly tight market the airlines that actively advertise for pilots will be able to attract better qualified applicants.
The use of the term Sxxx for anyone other than a person who crosses a union picket line is incorrect and, quite honestly, stupid. As has been said on this forum many times, those of you who do leave EK will most likely be doing so as DECs at another airline so get off your high horses in regards to the name calling ( P.S. this does not mean I endorse DECs, it's just that you can't blame the person who takes an opportunity offered. )
Typhoonpilot
Last edited by typhoonpilot; 7th May 2006 at 12:00.
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Originally Posted by Toad Hall
Typhoon if we were ALLOWED a union then we would be able to stop the DEC's who are taking advantage of this fact. Would your own unions in the states have ever allowed what is happening here in EK? NO THEY WOULD NOT therefore i stand by the fact that the DEC's joining are XXXX.
Here are some of the things my union back home did for me in my career:
1) They allowed me and 301 other pilots to be furloughed for 8 years while senior 767 Captains flew 10 extra hours per month to pad their retirement account.
2) They did not allow the company to take an award for a lucrative Trans-Pacific route. They were scared it would be outsourced just because it was going to be flown by another airline until they could obtain an additional aircraft or two to fly it themselves.
3) They continually negotiated contracts that only benefited the senior pilots in regards to reserve duty and work rules. This effectively kept 30% of the pilots on reserve for over a decade.
Shall we talk about what the Australian pilot's union did for their members in the late 80s ?
Yeah, Unions are great.
TP
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So Brian,when do you start your new job in the office?
Youve done everyone here a huge favour(favor) with your glossy article.NOT
Im sorry for what happened at USAir,but ONE simple question for TP and 330 man;-
Did or would USAir take a DEC from overseas out of seniority??
I think we all know the answer to that,dont we Brian?
Cheers,off to the pub for a few.QB
Youve done everyone here a huge favour(favor) with your glossy article.NOT
Im sorry for what happened at USAir,but ONE simple question for TP and 330 man;-
Did or would USAir take a DEC from overseas out of seniority??
I think we all know the answer to that,dont we Brian?
Cheers,off to the pub for a few.QB
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TP,
I am very proud being from OZ, and part of the 89 group who thought of others before ourselves in order to improve things for all OZ pilots.
I did what I did because I thought it was right although it caused my family great hardship.
I and my fellow countrymen came out here when you and your mates did not know where the middle east was. For that matter lots of you do not realise that Iran and Iraq are different countries and not a spelling mistake...
If Brian wants to come out here and fly to feed his family, I have no problem with that. If he wants to apply for TRI because he deserves it on merit I have no problem with that.
I cannot however see, how can you or anyone else defend a guy who plays golf with Ed, socializes with Alan and expects to get ahead not on merit but on the boys club network.
Brian deserves all the flack he is getting because he not only joined as a DEC out of seniority, not only does he complain about not flying the A340, he does not have the charecter to wait his turn and apply like the other 100 or so pilots to get a promotion on merit.
He shows complete discontent towards all his EK colleagues, and is so focused in getting his management position that is willing to sell his everything, even if it means being loose with the truth in the WSJ article.
Go participate in a cause, fight a battle for others, and then come and critisize me and my colleagues for being vocal...
By the way I hear that CC is being put forward for CPA
I am very proud being from OZ, and part of the 89 group who thought of others before ourselves in order to improve things for all OZ pilots.
I did what I did because I thought it was right although it caused my family great hardship.
I and my fellow countrymen came out here when you and your mates did not know where the middle east was. For that matter lots of you do not realise that Iran and Iraq are different countries and not a spelling mistake...
If Brian wants to come out here and fly to feed his family, I have no problem with that. If he wants to apply for TRI because he deserves it on merit I have no problem with that.
I cannot however see, how can you or anyone else defend a guy who plays golf with Ed, socializes with Alan and expects to get ahead not on merit but on the boys club network.
Brian deserves all the flack he is getting because he not only joined as a DEC out of seniority, not only does he complain about not flying the A340, he does not have the charecter to wait his turn and apply like the other 100 or so pilots to get a promotion on merit.
He shows complete discontent towards all his EK colleagues, and is so focused in getting his management position that is willing to sell his everything, even if it means being loose with the truth in the WSJ article.
Go participate in a cause, fight a battle for others, and then come and critisize me and my colleagues for being vocal...
By the way I hear that CC is being put forward for CPA
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Captainjohndoe:
Please don't take my union comment on the 89ers as a slight on those pilots, it was not. It was a comment on how unions can lead people down the wrong path to the membership's detriment. Much like what happened to the guys at Continental and Eastern.
My grandmother was a union organizer in New York during the sweatshop era of the 20s and 30s. She was one tough woman in her day. So I don't need a lesson on unions or self sacrifice. Unfortunately, in my country, the union's of today only seems to exist for the benefit of the national staff and the very senior members within each local unit. They will, and do, sacrifice the junior members to protect their own interests. It wasn't that way in my grandmother's day.
TP
Please don't take my union comment on the 89ers as a slight on those pilots, it was not. It was a comment on how unions can lead people down the wrong path to the membership's detriment. Much like what happened to the guys at Continental and Eastern.
My grandmother was a union organizer in New York during the sweatshop era of the 20s and 30s. She was one tough woman in her day. So I don't need a lesson on unions or self sacrifice. Unfortunately, in my country, the union's of today only seems to exist for the benefit of the national staff and the very senior members within each local unit. They will, and do, sacrifice the junior members to protect their own interests. It wasn't that way in my grandmother's day.
TP
Originally Posted by typhoonpilot
.
If you are a TRI or TRE and you actually mean this you need to get a course in professionalism ASAP as you do not belong in the simulator in any kind of an instructional or evaluational role.
Typhoonpilot
If you are a TRI or TRE and you actually mean this you need to get a course in professionalism ASAP as you do not belong in the simulator in any kind of an instructional or evaluational role.
Typhoonpilot
Not met 'Brian' but I feel I know him quite well already.
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Typhoon Pilot
Whilst i generally don't agree with much you say, I respect your right to say it, particularly because you generally put it in a fairly factual manner.
Your defence of BRIAN however has lost you any credibility that you may still have posessed.
His actions and attitude are indefensible. I'm sorry to see that you take his side. But at least we now know that you place country before colleagues.
Your defence of BRIAN however has lost you any credibility that you may still have posessed.
His actions and attitude are indefensible. I'm sorry to see that you take his side. But at least we now know that you place country before colleagues.
Isn't there a movie about the Life of Brian? I believe in it he was portrayed as being and I quote, "not the messiah, but just a very naughty boy!". Seems he has not changed much.
There was also some mention about his mother and Romans, but I think we should stay away from that one.
Don
There was also some mention about his mother and Romans, but I think we should stay away from that one.
Don
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Thanks whossorrynow
you are correct I was referring to being on the recieving end of Trainer Brian.........err does that make me??????
...mmmmmmm thinking out aloud there....
sorry Typhoon ........I guess I am ok to continue as cleared.....confirm it was the "BUST BRIAN CHOPS " arrival.....Rwy 30R
off to work...nighty night
TR
you are correct I was referring to being on the recieving end of Trainer Brian.........err does that make me??????
...mmmmmmm thinking out aloud there.... sorry Typhoon ........I guess I am ok to continue as cleared.....confirm it was the "BUST BRIAN CHOPS " arrival.....Rwy 30R
off to work...nighty night
TR