Jetstar advertising for drivers in the Middle East
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Something is rotten in Oz.
Why are they enticing pilots back from the Middle East, UK & Hong Kong to fly for Jetstar?
Testing the water to check demand to further lower conditions or, ominously, is Dixon going to break the back of contemporary QF pilots with a swag of experienced, homesick expats and the new industrial laws? There has been some concern of Jetstar standards, but not enouugh to warrant overt advertising in papers around the globe.
Why are they enticing pilots back from the Middle East, UK & Hong Kong to fly for Jetstar?
Testing the water to check demand to further lower conditions or, ominously, is Dixon going to break the back of contemporary QF pilots with a swag of experienced, homesick expats and the new industrial laws? There has been some concern of Jetstar standards, but not enouugh to warrant overt advertising in papers around the globe.
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Maybe there's a shortage of homegrown boys and girls that don't have rich daddies to fork out the 33k for the endorsement.
So.... lets get all those disgruntled Ozzie lads back from the middle east.... after all Dixon probably has Pprune in his favourites and sees just how much crud gets posted about the "virtual" shocking conditions that are forced upon the EK crews.
So.... lets get all those disgruntled Ozzie lads back from the middle east.... after all Dixon probably has Pprune in his favourites and sees just how much crud gets posted about the "virtual" shocking conditions that are forced upon the EK crews.
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Do I understand this correctly... The J* guys negotiated a package to fly the 330 long haul and now non or not many of them actually want to do it so J* are searching overseas? Must be a great deal......
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Anyone out there kind enough to give details of Jetstar payscale or are we just going to continue moaning & whinging about their conditions too. With the situation here in the ME, I agree that if things are not so great here so what's the problem with toughing it out back in Oz. Can it be any worse than being fatigued all the time, jetlagged, flying flat out, no lifestyle with roster, pay getting behind each year with rising inflation, housing fees, rent and cost of living. To top it off, the driving here gets worse everyday and we are playing russian roulette everyday with our family's lives on the roads cos' some of them don't give a toss about human life! I know that some out there will say Jetstar will work you hard but if you are already doing that here what is there to lose??? If you fear losing your job security here in the ME over going home to Oz, then I think it's a silly reason to stay.....focus on the BIG PICTURE!!!
Highlights of the Jet* EBA that I saw were as follows:
1. Capt Pay $140000. Up to $160000 in a few years.
2. Note stating that DECs hired now, will head back to the right hand seat in three years, if a FO with seniority needs a command.
3. Note stating that you will get min of 9 days off per month, and hopefully they will be at your home base and not down route.
4. Allowances when down route seem pretty low
5. Costs of upgrade, transitions etc born by the pilot.
Good luck.
Don
1. Capt Pay $140000. Up to $160000 in a few years.
2. Note stating that DECs hired now, will head back to the right hand seat in three years, if a FO with seniority needs a command.
3. Note stating that you will get min of 9 days off per month, and hopefully they will be at your home base and not down route.
4. Allowances when down route seem pretty low
5. Costs of upgrade, transitions etc born by the pilot.
Good luck.
Don
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Thanks for the info guys. Maybe I will stay at EK for the time being. Don't believe in buying your own rating just on principal alone. Now I really know what a low cost airline means......they remain low cost and you pay for it! Anyway I will keep discovering for now?!?!
Low cost doesn't really mean low cost. Well, maybe for the first ten passengers who book on line a year in advance.
As a business model, low cost really means low overheads with consequently larger profits. And we as pilots are overheads!
As a business model, low cost really means low overheads with consequently larger profits. And we as pilots are overheads!
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Just found this in my mailbox...
"Qantas Airways’ low-cost subsidiary Jetstar has persuaded its pilots to let it recruit direct-entry captains for Airbus A330s in support of its planned expansion into the long-haul market.
A Jetstar spokesman in Melbourne says a new enterprise agreement with its pilot workforce of 250 went into effect earlier this month and it allows Jetstar to employ direct-entry captains and first officers for the planned widebody fleet. It had already been employing direct-entry pilots for its Airbus A320 fleet.
An ad in this week’s issue of ATI sister publication Flight International also shows the carrier is seeking to recruit first officers and captains for its A320s and A330s and possibly even for its 12 Boeing 787-8s which will be delivered from 2008.
The ad makes no mention of how many pilots the airline is looking to recruit and the carrier’s spokesman was unable to disclose this.
Jetstar currently operates services within Australia and to New Zealand and according to ATI’s sister product ACAS has 19 A320s and six Boeing 717s. The carrier has said repeatedly that it expects to completely phase out the 717s and by mid 2006 have 23 A320s.
New long-haul arm Jetstar International plans to launch operations in November using six A330s and by mid-2007 expects to have eight of the type. It will later transition to a 787 fleet.
Jetstar’s spokesman says the carrier plans to have some of its A320 pilots move onto the A330s and eventually the 787s. But because Jetstar International is undergoing such a huge expansion the carrier also needs to recruit direct-entry captains and first officers for the longer-haul aircraft, he says.
“The new enterprise agreement allows us to move pilots over to larger aircraft equipment [and] to bring in some expertise with regards to the A330s,” he adds.
Jetstar’s pilots last month voted “overwhelmingly” in favour of the enterprise agreement, says the spokesman, who adds that it took effect earlier this month when it was certified by Australia’s Industrial Relations Commission.
Source: Air Transport Intelligence news
"Qantas Airways’ low-cost subsidiary Jetstar has persuaded its pilots to let it recruit direct-entry captains for Airbus A330s in support of its planned expansion into the long-haul market.
A Jetstar spokesman in Melbourne says a new enterprise agreement with its pilot workforce of 250 went into effect earlier this month and it allows Jetstar to employ direct-entry captains and first officers for the planned widebody fleet. It had already been employing direct-entry pilots for its Airbus A320 fleet.
An ad in this week’s issue of ATI sister publication Flight International also shows the carrier is seeking to recruit first officers and captains for its A320s and A330s and possibly even for its 12 Boeing 787-8s which will be delivered from 2008.
The ad makes no mention of how many pilots the airline is looking to recruit and the carrier’s spokesman was unable to disclose this.
Jetstar currently operates services within Australia and to New Zealand and according to ATI’s sister product ACAS has 19 A320s and six Boeing 717s. The carrier has said repeatedly that it expects to completely phase out the 717s and by mid 2006 have 23 A320s.
New long-haul arm Jetstar International plans to launch operations in November using six A330s and by mid-2007 expects to have eight of the type. It will later transition to a 787 fleet.
Jetstar’s spokesman says the carrier plans to have some of its A320 pilots move onto the A330s and eventually the 787s. But because Jetstar International is undergoing such a huge expansion the carrier also needs to recruit direct-entry captains and first officers for the longer-haul aircraft, he says.
“The new enterprise agreement allows us to move pilots over to larger aircraft equipment [and] to bring in some expertise with regards to the A330s,” he adds.
Jetstar’s pilots last month voted “overwhelmingly” in favour of the enterprise agreement, says the spokesman, who adds that it took effect earlier this month when it was certified by Australia’s Industrial Relations Commission.
Source: Air Transport Intelligence news
Surplus A330 Pilots
Max Autobrakes. .
The first 3 A380 Dugongs are to be crewed solely from the A330 fleet. That will absorb some of the excess pilot establishment. There are also a few 744 slots to be filled this training year. Most of the Airbus guys are relatively senior, so they should be able to bid successfully for those.
For those who remain on the A330, the short term effect will be a reduction in credit hrs flown per roster per pilot, with a corresponding decrease in pay.
Cheers,
Veruka Salt
The first 3 A380 Dugongs are to be crewed solely from the A330 fleet. That will absorb some of the excess pilot establishment. There are also a few 744 slots to be filled this training year. Most of the Airbus guys are relatively senior, so they should be able to bid successfully for those.
For those who remain on the A330, the short term effect will be a reduction in credit hrs flown per roster per pilot, with a corresponding decrease in pay.
Cheers,
Veruka Salt
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so the next time I sit on the deck for 8 hrs with some whinging pilot about how tough things are in the ME and in particular EK, I can now show them just what wonderful opportunities lay in wait for them should they choose to return to Oz....
All that lifestyle...., the endorsement, the 1000hs, the days off away from home, the tax, the rent, the medical bills, the dental, paying to send the kids to school, the $1.45lt price of fuel, the insurance......etc
Mate I'd be off to Oz like sh*t off a shovel!!!!! Not!
...and it's only going to get worse my friends.
All that lifestyle...., the endorsement, the 1000hs, the days off away from home, the tax, the rent, the medical bills, the dental, paying to send the kids to school, the $1.45lt price of fuel, the insurance......etc
Mate I'd be off to Oz like sh*t off a shovel!!!!! Not!
...and it's only going to get worse my friends.
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Hey Caynine, maybe you should have a good look at EK's backyard before having a go at Oz. Maybe you have been caught up in all the wonders of Dubailand but if you can see through the sand storm, pollution, greed and rising costs of living then not all is well in the sand pit! Maybe you are one of those who cannot go anywhere and have to make good in the ME. In this case, best of luck as you will need it but life isn't so bad in Oz. No ar$e hole trying to kill you and your family on the roads everyday is reason enough to live there.
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JETSTAR INTERNATIONAL???
Lot's of talk in Oz about EK aussies rushing back to join Jetstar.
If you have the education requirements and can pass the testing stage, you will be hit up around AUD10,000 if you are type rated A330 (company induction training??) or AUD30,000 if not.
Net income for Capts about AUD7000 per month, F/Os AUD 5000. (forget private schools)
After two years DE Capts will be demoted to F/O and there is currently 300 pilots ahead, who will qualify for command in two years therefore, about 5-8yrs to get back in the left seat.
So the question remains, why are so many of you rushing back?
If you have the education requirements and can pass the testing stage, you will be hit up around AUD10,000 if you are type rated A330 (company induction training??) or AUD30,000 if not.
Net income for Capts about AUD7000 per month, F/Os AUD 5000. (forget private schools)
After two years DE Capts will be demoted to F/O and there is currently 300 pilots ahead, who will qualify for command in two years therefore, about 5-8yrs to get back in the left seat.
So the question remains, why are so many of you rushing back?
Last edited by UNOME; 9th May 2006 at 10:02.
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Life should be less about money and more about the important things like home and family. When I left home I thought that I would have a happy and successful life overseas. Well, it's been OK.
There is a story, or proverb if you like, about life overseas and it involves the issue of two buckets... Well, one of those buckets is now full and it isn't the money one!
Home is, and always will be, home. There are opportunities to come home now and, despite lower salaries, many of us have had enough here.
There is a story, or proverb if you like, about life overseas and it involves the issue of two buckets... Well, one of those buckets is now full and it isn't the money one!
Home is, and always will be, home. There are opportunities to come home now and, despite lower salaries, many of us have had enough here.
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QF reserved slots for Jet*
Something else to consider for those who may be tempted back to Oz for the new Ultra Low Cost Model.
For every 20 seniority positions within Jetstar, QF is reserving Seven (7) slots for their own people.
While at the moment they are attempting to lure (force?) some mainline pilots (mostly FO's) with the promise of DEC and the right of return to mainline in 3 years, one wonders as to the long term strategic plans by the QF Junta to lower the terms and conditions for QF drivers as a whole.
Be very aware that even a DEC may find themselves back in the RHS after a time and then possibly a couple of hundred slots away from command again with a forced mainline transition.
Check out Dunnanda & Godzone for more.
The grass is just as brown and sandy on the other side of the fence!
For every 20 seniority positions within Jetstar, QF is reserving Seven (7) slots for their own people.
While at the moment they are attempting to lure (force?) some mainline pilots (mostly FO's) with the promise of DEC and the right of return to mainline in 3 years, one wonders as to the long term strategic plans by the QF Junta to lower the terms and conditions for QF drivers as a whole.
Be very aware that even a DEC may find themselves back in the RHS after a time and then possibly a couple of hundred slots away from command again with a forced mainline transition.
Check out Dunnanda & Godzone for more.
The grass is just as brown and sandy on the other side of the fence!
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Again I think the main plot has been lost to some posters here. It's not like Jetstar is offering a terrific package with all the bells and whistles to compete with EK or any other Gulf carrier. There comes a time when one has simply had enough, and must go "home". Since we are pilots we get a job with an airline flying airplanes. It's the other aspects that you look at positively, not the job.
The large salary/benefit/t&c's "packages" and promise of working for an "up and comming" "world class airline" that were once the main draw to the ME are no longer. At least not good enough to attract large numbers of good pilots for a long term career here.
All the best to those who make the move to get closer to "Home".
The large salary/benefit/t&c's "packages" and promise of working for an "up and comming" "world class airline" that were once the main draw to the ME are no longer. At least not good enough to attract large numbers of good pilots for a long term career here.
All the best to those who make the move to get closer to "Home".
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I for one have had enough of the sandpit and I have an interview shortly.Even after 3 years if I'm back in the RHS its not such a big deal.A lot of us have been to hell and back so a few years as a F.O is not such a big deal.Most of us would be happy to fly domestic anyway and leave the longhaul for the young superstars.I know of 20 Ek guys who have been given interviews although we have to all pass so who knows the final numbers.Heard alot of Dragonair have applied so the competition will be quite stiff.Lets see the final washup.
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According to HR, it will be a lot closer to two years before you get bumped to the RHS, plus there will be around 300 guys ahead of you for the upgrade.
All this and AUD5000 net per month. Lifestyle move or financial/ career disaster?
I copped a razz on another forum for asking about this. No malice intended. Just would like to know if it is really true that 700 expats have applied and hence been advised of interviews??
On a positive note, it has pushed EK to fast track the new bases outside Dubai. The set up at Tulla in Melbourne is complete
All this and AUD5000 net per month. Lifestyle move or financial/ career disaster?
I copped a razz on another forum for asking about this. No malice intended. Just would like to know if it is really true that 700 expats have applied and hence been advised of interviews??
On a positive note, it has pushed EK to fast track the new bases outside Dubai. The set up at Tulla in Melbourne is complete
Last edited by UNOME; 10th May 2006 at 01:11.
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Fron D & G reporting points
QUOTE=Mud Skipper]Vorsicht,
Latest news is very few, ie not enough, O/S Australian A330 crews are interested. A few desperate Emirates drivers and that’s it. 10 year Dragon A330 Captain was told he would have to come as an F/O, pay for J* endorsement, 3 years cr@p pay then pay for 787 F/O endorsement if he was kept on. Believe he hung up before more of the deal was explained.
From what is being offered you could only say the whole O/S vacancy advertising exercise was a fishing expedition with no bait. The sole purpose was to further put the wind up J* & Qantas pilots so as to lower their expectations.
This could have indeed been successful with the latest rumour doing the office of some QF A330 F/O’s putting an offer to QF/J* to crew the aircraft as Captains on a deal not dissimilar, but slightly less, than AO conditions. J* pilots would take the right seat to build experience for the 787 operations when these pilots would return to mainline. Apparently, given the time limits now on J*management, this offer is a front runner and perhaps what the mechanics of these machinations have had planned all along.
All will be clear in a few months, may the shaftings continue.
[/QUOTE]
Latest news is very few, ie not enough, O/S Australian A330 crews are interested. A few desperate Emirates drivers and that’s it. 10 year Dragon A330 Captain was told he would have to come as an F/O, pay for J* endorsement, 3 years cr@p pay then pay for 787 F/O endorsement if he was kept on. Believe he hung up before more of the deal was explained.
From what is being offered you could only say the whole O/S vacancy advertising exercise was a fishing expedition with no bait. The sole purpose was to further put the wind up J* & Qantas pilots so as to lower their expectations.
This could have indeed been successful with the latest rumour doing the office of some QF A330 F/O’s putting an offer to QF/J* to crew the aircraft as Captains on a deal not dissimilar, but slightly less, than AO conditions. J* pilots would take the right seat to build experience for the 787 operations when these pilots would return to mainline. Apparently, given the time limits now on J*management, this offer is a front runner and perhaps what the mechanics of these machinations have had planned all along.
All will be clear in a few months, may the shaftings continue.
[/QUOTE]