planepaul

Does anyone know the work sched. and living
arrangements at sama?

bomos

Dear Paul,

all the rules in Saudi Arabia are based on FAA, the company is only one year and a half old(flight operations), has a nice enviroment in the cockpit and has a lot to improve yet; best regards,

mutt

The SAMA reputation on the street is BAD.... cancelled flights, re-routed flights, hard landings, charging passengers for things that they arent used to paying for. Incorrect advertised fares that are never available when booking. Additional fees that add 50% to fares.

Considering that SAMA have lost all of their investment capital and the GACA dont appear to be able to release them from the PSO routes, BOMOS do you think that they will still be flying next year?

Mutt

wonder

mutt, based on what you've mentioned above, how on earth any airline operating like that can survive. unless the funding is not an issue here.

bomos

hello,

low cost, cap fares, fares starting at a price....for a certain number of seats (normal around the globe), paid inflight products (normal in LLC around the globe), domestic cancellations and still an average of 85 % of the flights on time; didn't hear anything about hard landings (there has to be checks for that)... only one year old. There is a lot to improve, people are working for that. there was only one airline before, for ages, they used to be the biggest, now other airlines are bigger and better in the middle east, why? i think the ineficiency of aviation there is a severe condition when rules are not that good. Statistic is showing improvements, lets wait and see, and yes, it will be flying next year.

best regards,

mutt

Improvements, I will agree with that as you actually got away from the LCC model of point to point and actually started selling tickets to where people actually want to go... ie.. DMM-URY.

Dont compare yourselves to a goverment airline, the models are completely different. You should be looking at the other LCC's in the region.


Mutt

Fool 'n' Tameez

I wouldn't read too much into public sentiment which is riddled with exaggeration, rumour and fear mongering . The Saudi public is good at making mountains out of mole hills.
Saudia isn't spared either. You should hear some of the stuff being said about the "Tabouk crash" and other sensationalist stories.

They are burning lots of cash (NASair likewise), but I think the investors are committed to the project enough for them to weather the storm. They have been very vocal in their lobbying regarding fare caps, PSO and SV's fuel subsidies, and if rumours are to be believed they (and NAS) may be getting a reduction in PSO routes.

bomos

Aviation has a lot to improve in the Kingdom, i think the first steps are taken; commitments were made by all involved in the bussiness, to serve well the population. But, it takes time for people to notice. best regards,

desertopsguy

Alot of these comments are designed to provoke someone who may know something into reacting and saying something that maybe they shouldn't. Perhaps into disclosing something private...
If you worked at Sama or any other airline it wouldn't be prudent to talk about company capital, investors, future plans etc.
SV are not saints by any stretch, same goes for NAS. If there were 10 well run, profitable companies there will always be one 'know it all' mouth piece with something to say.

For sure in KSA there is no level playing field, too much outside interference for better or worse. Our prince is bigger than your prince, one big swinging richard competition. Every Sheik/prince/emir/sultan and the rest of the made up titles all seem to want to be involved in airlines and good for them. As long as they keep pumping money in; the thing will float.
One of the afformentioned carriers with a mixed bag of aircraft is a good example of this.

My ultimate point is this, trying to predict what will happen to a company in 6/12/18months time, based on standard business practices and market forces (that might apply in the real world)in middle east countries, rarely turns out how you think it will.

My guess is that they'll all be around in 6/12/18months time.

D.O.G

wonder

it is funny to hear that an airline with 5, 6, or even 10 airplanes are so private and should not disclose any info. Ryan and easyjet have their cards open to the public. that is a healthy business.

desertopsguy

This is true Wonder; but if you dig deep enough, you will find that very little is 'healthy' in middle east.

If carriers in the EU were operated like these ones, companies like RYR or EZY would have them hauled over the coals of the European court, as they are prone to do.

D.O.G

Malcontento'

It cannot be not possible to make a company that fails in every department on every day, but Sama can do it. The biggest mess in the Middle East and it gets worse as the days go by. More 50% of pilots have turned in thier resignations now and ALL of the rest are working hard on the CVs to get away from this company as soon as they could. The managment causing problems because they have no experience to do their jobs and no morality to stand behind what it is they say.

mutt

Are they still operating?

Mutt

wonder

I like this question.

Desert Diner

Good question indeed, considering they are offering 50,000 discounted Ramadan seats

surfer of desert

Sama airlines are doing sim section on GF sim "767", they are looking for DEC capt base in JED.

NG_Kaptain

What section are they doing on the 767?

Desert Diner

The goal for all the new KSA airlines was always to get international routes as they knew they couldn't make a profit on the domestic routes they were given. The question was when. I'm suprised it may be soon.

I guess the next question will be to where. My guess would be the sub continent.

wonder

Is it true that Sama is facing pilots exodus?

T-6

Saudi Arabian budget carrier Sama is considering suspending all domestic services after concluding that the airline simply cannot operate profitably under the restrictions of the kingdom's domestic fare cap.
In a candid disclosure of the difficulties it is experiencing in the Saudi market, Sama has detailed the heavy losses it is incurring on domestic services within the kingdom.
Sama admits it is losing SR40,000 ($10,700) on every flight on the Dammam-Riyadh route - one of its primary services - and has generated losses of over SR40 million in a year of operating to Medina.
Such has been the scale of the Medina losses that the airline has been forced to withdraw its services from Riyadh and Dammam to the holy city.
Chief executive Andrew Cowen says the economy-fare cap and the increasing cost of fuel are making it "impossible" for Sama to make money on domestic routes.
"Sama's board of directors has instructed the management team to evaluate suspension of all domestic flying until the situation improves and a reasonable return can be made," he says.
"This is not a decision we have taken lightly but we have no choice."
Sama would instead concentrate on its international operations. It has continued its gradual international expansion with new routes from Dammam to Beirut, and Riyadh to Assiut.
Cowen says: "We were regularly filling over 80% of our seats but simply were not able to charge fares that covered the costs of operating to Medina."
In addition to pulling off the Medina route, he says, Sama has halved frequencies on the Dammam-Riyadh connection despite "very respectable" passenger numbers.
While shareholders and the civil aviation administration have supported Sama, Cowen says the airline remains at a disadvantage to flag-carrier Saudi Arabian Airlines which, he claims, receives fuel at a different rate.
He says the Saudi authorities must complete the "unfinished business" of removing the fare cap and equalising fuel charges.