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There were a couple stories in the regional news about some low-cost operator in KSA halting domestic flights due to fixed fares, and high fuel prices...but don't remember which one, or if it ever transpired...
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not true
seriousgrudge is right, the only reason they are bringing in additional aircraft is for Haj, as they have full operational capacity with thier present fleet, and in haj you cannot go tech
goodluck with interview
goodluck with interview
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This is the truth Wonder, many obvious simple things have been made to be tough, alot of mistakes. Most of the informations cannot be relied on. This is the 'rumours network' after all but even those inside the company are not always knowing what is truth and what is not. A few people know what is going on, the company future, new aircrafts, new pilots and each few weeks the story is changing. But for sure Im telling you that we have lousy roster, lousy aircrafts that are always with technical problems and for those not living in BAH it is a lousy life style because saudi is not the good place to live. So; we continue on with 2 hopes, 1 hope that things gets better and the other that we find a better place.
SG
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News from the management and DFO... 
Dear Sama friend and colleague,
I just wanted to update you on a some key challenges concerning Sama at present.
Many of you will have seen press reports that Sama is considering stopping the flying of domestic routes. Allow me to explain what is going on here.
As many of you know there is a fare cap on domestic routes. This has been in place since around 2000/1 and has not increased to this day despite very significant cost inflation especially fuel. The fare cap is so low that even with extremely high loads, it is impossible for Sama to make money on domestic flying. Because of this, we have steadily reduced the amount of domestic flying that we do and now fly approximately 75% international routes and 25% domestic routes. However, even though over the summer, international routes were break-even and profitable in many cases, despite oil prices peaking over the summer, the losses on domestic routes meant we still lost money. This situation obviously can’t continue and unless we can either get the economy fare cap lifted or receive the same domestic rate fuel that Saudia receives, then we will have to reduce further our domestic flying.
I want to stress that reducing domestic flying means we have more aircraft time to operate international routes. In other words, we will just switch where we fly our aircraft to. So I don’t want anyone to think that reduced domestic flying will result in us grounding aircraft. Switching more aircraft to international flying will be good for Sama but of course we need to have one more go at persuading the government to act in respect of the fare cap/domestic rate fuel. The good news is that the government seems to be listening to what we are saying and hopefully Sama will receive a positive outcome to this issue.
On another much more unhappy note, I sincerely regret and apologise that we have had to delay the processing of the payroll. The issue simply is that the fuel companies and one of our major suppliers have forced us to pay them approximately SR25m in the past few days. In the case of the fuel companies they are requiring us to make extra payments in advance of the Eid holidays, during which time banks will be shut and we will be unable to make normal payments to the fuel companies. I hope you understand that without making payments to the fuel companies, we risk having aircraft grounded and we simply can’t afford to risk this. I’m truly sorry to say that the only way we have been able to make the SR25m of payments is by delaying payroll by a week and using the money we had set aside for payroll. We have simply no choice but do this.
You might ask why this is happening given that the shareholders committed extra financing to Sama? Well again I’m sorry to say that for a variety of good reasons Sama has so far only received approximately 25% of the money committed and most of this has gone to paying outstanding invoices. The shareholders are fully committed to making the full financing available but it will just take a bit more time to complete. No-one should doubt that Sama continues to have the full support of the shareholders.
I realise that there is a lot of unhappiness from all our staff that payroll keeps coming late. Especially also at this time as we are about to start the Eid holidays. I promise you that if we had an alternative solution then we would have taken it. But we really have absolutely no choice as of course we must keep the airline flying. These challenges will only makes us stronger as one team to become the best, safest and most efficient Low Fare Carrier in the Middle East as we fly forward together.
If anyone faces undue hardship because of this, then please can they let their director know and we will do our best to help.
I really want to emphasise that going forward, prospects for Sama remain very positive. We have nearly reached profitability/cash break-even despite record fuel prices and the fare cap. And we have the bulk of the shareholders funds still to be received. We are also just about to launch a very significant Hajj programme and there are many other positive initiatives underway. We simply have to get through this.
Dear All,
It seems like we move from one crisis here at Sama to another, but like many other things in life especially as those of you with family and children will attest, today’s crisis soon fades and goes away and we are left with at least two things to deal with. One is the next crisis that is looming on the horizon and the other is HOW WELL DID I JUST HANDLE THIS CRISIS. Life is for learning and life at Sama is no different from life anywhere else on the planet. So first of all lets look at how to answer this first question; Once we get through the next week and salaries are paid, what is the next crisis for Sama to handle. If we have kept cool and have not created additional problems for ourselves in the course of handling CRISIS #1, the answer is to continue with our business plan of building an airline in the Middle East in a country and region that has everything that it takes to build a successful and profitable venture. Sama is one of 3 airlines in the most oil rich country in the world with one of the highest per capita incomes in the entire Middle East. Everywhere we go both domestic and international flights are full of passengers who want to go to the places that we are flying. Domestically there are 2 issues that we face as you may have seen in some of the recent press releases: FARE CAP, which prevents us from covering our costs because we cannot raise fares in Saudi Arabia, and; HIGH FUEL COSTS, because Saudi Arabia has not yet approved selling Sama fuel for the same price that it sells to Saudia. You have heard this from our CEO and see it in the press. If either of these 2 issues are overcome so that we can raise fares domestically and/or reduce our fuel costs on the magnitude that it appears may be possible, Sama will be instantly profitable and sitting on an international and domestic network with the greatest potential for profitability anywhere in the Middle East and most probably anywhere in the world. If we are not successful in achieving either of these “external” wins, then we have proven that Sama as it grows its international network can (and will) be profitable purely on the merits and execution of our International business plan, which is, FLYING SAUDIS AND OTHER ARAB PASSENGERS TO AND FROM KSA WHICH IS THE SINGLE BIGGEST CATCHMENT AREA WITH THE HIGHEST PER CAPITA INCOME IN THE ME. We are here, we have the business plan, we have the resources and backing of our investors, we have the cash flow from good operations, now all we have to do is weather the crises that come upon every start up airline that has ever come into existence, without screwing it up ourselves in the process.
OPERATIONS: The method that we use to generate not just the offset to all of our costs, but to make a profit and to grow as an airline is obviously the operation itself. With 6 aircraft we fly on average 42 flights per day and generate 350,000 SAR ($93,000 USD) per aircraft [this is based on 7 flight per day; 450 SAR average fare and 75% load factor]. If there is an interruption to the schedule that prevents us from flying these flights then we not only loose the revenue that would have been generated by those flights totaling almost $100,000 per aircraft but we incur big expenses as well. First of all after a 3 hour delay we are subject to returning the fare to the passenger; in most cases we are obligated to either book them on another Sama flight or purchase tickets for them from another airline and expenses for hotel and or meals as well. The consequences, just so you know, of canceling a flight are the loss of the revenue which we have put at $100,000 per aircraft per day and the liability of having to rebook and purchase tickets on other airlines that we can put at least as great as the loss in revenue or another $100,000 for the day. The combined loss of revenue and cost for canceling flights can run upwards of $200,000 per day that does not make its way into Sama bank account to handle all of those items that need to be paid, Fuel, Aircraft leases, Maintenance and most important of all for each of us, Employee Salaries.
Let me get to the point of the email here. There are those of you who are very disturbed (and rightly so) about not having salaries paid on time and the fact that it is over Eid is also very troubling. I am upset as well and will deal with this in my own way as you will in your own way. What we cannot do is to make the mistake of saying that because Sama (the company) has not paid me on time, I am entitled to withhold my services and not accept duties that are assigned. We are seeing some individuals that are refusing to fly out right; we are seeing some others that say that they are “not fit to fly” and are removing themselves from the schedule. As history here at Sama shows, when this kind of behavior begins, precipitated by whatever event (late payment of salary, not enough leave time, dissatisfaction with schedule), those who refuse their commitments to Sama begin a chain of events that has in the past and will in the future, rob our company of the very opportunities that it needs to rectify the situation that has caused the late payments. That being a short fall in revenue produced. If you do not fly when it is your duty to fly, you yourself become PART OF THE PROBLEM and you set yourself apart from those of us who choose to remain PART OF THE SOLUTION. Please do not ground our aircraft and shift your own responsibilities to your fellow pilots and/or flight attendants and thereby delay yours and everyone else’s salary being paid in the process.
The crisis that we face will not be solved by emotional responses that hurt and hinder the airline in its production and generation of revenue. It will only be made worse. Now is the time to pull together and get through this crisis as we are making progress on many fronts to make Sama the airline that each of us can be proud of. Here are a few of the improvements and changes that have recently been agreed to:
·COMMITMENT TO AT LEAST 8 DAYS OFF PER MONTH. While we were not entirely successful with this one for last month, days OFF were increased to 7 and there is a positive path to achieving greater utilization of our crews and better Rosters in the future. Please remember that a high number of sick or no-shows is the quickest way to ensure that days scheduled OFF get used up in required roster changes.
·EXPENSES. Sama will begin a new policy on October 1st that pays meal expenses as a function of hours away from base. HR will email and distribute the details of the policy very shortly, but the summary of the policy is as follows: For every hour away from Base, Sama will pay flight and cabin crew at a rate of 7.5 SAR for meal expenses. This totals 180 SAR per 24 hour period. These meal expenses will be paid along with Salary and sector pay each month. Breakfast will continue to be included with hotel and meals provided for crew on board the aircraft will continue. If actual expenses incurred are greater than the 180 SAR paid per day, the difference may still be claimed according to Sama expense policy.
·OTHER. Andrew has highlighted that we are in the processing of securing additional aircraft allowing a dedicated spare aircraft at both our bases of DMM and JED. This is a costly investment but designed to improve operational reliability, which has been one the of the most unsatisfactory issues for all of us to date. There are numerous other issues that are in the process of being rectified and the Sama that you see in 6 months will definitely be a better place to work.
We must protect our operation as this is what ultimately pays (as explained above) each of your salaries. As such our policies for unapproved Sick, No-Show and Refusal to fly will be upheld without exception. These are policies designed to protect those of you who do your part day in and day out to make Sama a great place to work and continue to be the source of our salaries and security for ourselves and our families.
Dear Sama friend and colleague,
I just wanted to update you on a some key challenges concerning Sama at present.
Many of you will have seen press reports that Sama is considering stopping the flying of domestic routes. Allow me to explain what is going on here.
As many of you know there is a fare cap on domestic routes. This has been in place since around 2000/1 and has not increased to this day despite very significant cost inflation especially fuel. The fare cap is so low that even with extremely high loads, it is impossible for Sama to make money on domestic flying. Because of this, we have steadily reduced the amount of domestic flying that we do and now fly approximately 75% international routes and 25% domestic routes. However, even though over the summer, international routes were break-even and profitable in many cases, despite oil prices peaking over the summer, the losses on domestic routes meant we still lost money. This situation obviously can’t continue and unless we can either get the economy fare cap lifted or receive the same domestic rate fuel that Saudia receives, then we will have to reduce further our domestic flying.
I want to stress that reducing domestic flying means we have more aircraft time to operate international routes. In other words, we will just switch where we fly our aircraft to. So I don’t want anyone to think that reduced domestic flying will result in us grounding aircraft. Switching more aircraft to international flying will be good for Sama but of course we need to have one more go at persuading the government to act in respect of the fare cap/domestic rate fuel. The good news is that the government seems to be listening to what we are saying and hopefully Sama will receive a positive outcome to this issue.
On another much more unhappy note, I sincerely regret and apologise that we have had to delay the processing of the payroll. The issue simply is that the fuel companies and one of our major suppliers have forced us to pay them approximately SR25m in the past few days. In the case of the fuel companies they are requiring us to make extra payments in advance of the Eid holidays, during which time banks will be shut and we will be unable to make normal payments to the fuel companies. I hope you understand that without making payments to the fuel companies, we risk having aircraft grounded and we simply can’t afford to risk this. I’m truly sorry to say that the only way we have been able to make the SR25m of payments is by delaying payroll by a week and using the money we had set aside for payroll. We have simply no choice but do this.
You might ask why this is happening given that the shareholders committed extra financing to Sama? Well again I’m sorry to say that for a variety of good reasons Sama has so far only received approximately 25% of the money committed and most of this has gone to paying outstanding invoices. The shareholders are fully committed to making the full financing available but it will just take a bit more time to complete. No-one should doubt that Sama continues to have the full support of the shareholders.
I realise that there is a lot of unhappiness from all our staff that payroll keeps coming late. Especially also at this time as we are about to start the Eid holidays. I promise you that if we had an alternative solution then we would have taken it. But we really have absolutely no choice as of course we must keep the airline flying. These challenges will only makes us stronger as one team to become the best, safest and most efficient Low Fare Carrier in the Middle East as we fly forward together.
If anyone faces undue hardship because of this, then please can they let their director know and we will do our best to help.
I really want to emphasise that going forward, prospects for Sama remain very positive. We have nearly reached profitability/cash break-even despite record fuel prices and the fare cap. And we have the bulk of the shareholders funds still to be received. We are also just about to launch a very significant Hajj programme and there are many other positive initiatives underway. We simply have to get through this.
Dear All,
It seems like we move from one crisis here at Sama to another, but like many other things in life especially as those of you with family and children will attest, today’s crisis soon fades and goes away and we are left with at least two things to deal with. One is the next crisis that is looming on the horizon and the other is HOW WELL DID I JUST HANDLE THIS CRISIS. Life is for learning and life at Sama is no different from life anywhere else on the planet. So first of all lets look at how to answer this first question; Once we get through the next week and salaries are paid, what is the next crisis for Sama to handle. If we have kept cool and have not created additional problems for ourselves in the course of handling CRISIS #1, the answer is to continue with our business plan of building an airline in the Middle East in a country and region that has everything that it takes to build a successful and profitable venture. Sama is one of 3 airlines in the most oil rich country in the world with one of the highest per capita incomes in the entire Middle East. Everywhere we go both domestic and international flights are full of passengers who want to go to the places that we are flying. Domestically there are 2 issues that we face as you may have seen in some of the recent press releases: FARE CAP, which prevents us from covering our costs because we cannot raise fares in Saudi Arabia, and; HIGH FUEL COSTS, because Saudi Arabia has not yet approved selling Sama fuel for the same price that it sells to Saudia. You have heard this from our CEO and see it in the press. If either of these 2 issues are overcome so that we can raise fares domestically and/or reduce our fuel costs on the magnitude that it appears may be possible, Sama will be instantly profitable and sitting on an international and domestic network with the greatest potential for profitability anywhere in the Middle East and most probably anywhere in the world. If we are not successful in achieving either of these “external” wins, then we have proven that Sama as it grows its international network can (and will) be profitable purely on the merits and execution of our International business plan, which is, FLYING SAUDIS AND OTHER ARAB PASSENGERS TO AND FROM KSA WHICH IS THE SINGLE BIGGEST CATCHMENT AREA WITH THE HIGHEST PER CAPITA INCOME IN THE ME. We are here, we have the business plan, we have the resources and backing of our investors, we have the cash flow from good operations, now all we have to do is weather the crises that come upon every start up airline that has ever come into existence, without screwing it up ourselves in the process.
OPERATIONS: The method that we use to generate not just the offset to all of our costs, but to make a profit and to grow as an airline is obviously the operation itself. With 6 aircraft we fly on average 42 flights per day and generate 350,000 SAR ($93,000 USD) per aircraft [this is based on 7 flight per day; 450 SAR average fare and 75% load factor]. If there is an interruption to the schedule that prevents us from flying these flights then we not only loose the revenue that would have been generated by those flights totaling almost $100,000 per aircraft but we incur big expenses as well. First of all after a 3 hour delay we are subject to returning the fare to the passenger; in most cases we are obligated to either book them on another Sama flight or purchase tickets for them from another airline and expenses for hotel and or meals as well. The consequences, just so you know, of canceling a flight are the loss of the revenue which we have put at $100,000 per aircraft per day and the liability of having to rebook and purchase tickets on other airlines that we can put at least as great as the loss in revenue or another $100,000 for the day. The combined loss of revenue and cost for canceling flights can run upwards of $200,000 per day that does not make its way into Sama bank account to handle all of those items that need to be paid, Fuel, Aircraft leases, Maintenance and most important of all for each of us, Employee Salaries.
Let me get to the point of the email here. There are those of you who are very disturbed (and rightly so) about not having salaries paid on time and the fact that it is over Eid is also very troubling. I am upset as well and will deal with this in my own way as you will in your own way. What we cannot do is to make the mistake of saying that because Sama (the company) has not paid me on time, I am entitled to withhold my services and not accept duties that are assigned. We are seeing some individuals that are refusing to fly out right; we are seeing some others that say that they are “not fit to fly” and are removing themselves from the schedule. As history here at Sama shows, when this kind of behavior begins, precipitated by whatever event (late payment of salary, not enough leave time, dissatisfaction with schedule), those who refuse their commitments to Sama begin a chain of events that has in the past and will in the future, rob our company of the very opportunities that it needs to rectify the situation that has caused the late payments. That being a short fall in revenue produced. If you do not fly when it is your duty to fly, you yourself become PART OF THE PROBLEM and you set yourself apart from those of us who choose to remain PART OF THE SOLUTION. Please do not ground our aircraft and shift your own responsibilities to your fellow pilots and/or flight attendants and thereby delay yours and everyone else’s salary being paid in the process.
The crisis that we face will not be solved by emotional responses that hurt and hinder the airline in its production and generation of revenue. It will only be made worse. Now is the time to pull together and get through this crisis as we are making progress on many fronts to make Sama the airline that each of us can be proud of. Here are a few of the improvements and changes that have recently been agreed to:
·COMMITMENT TO AT LEAST 8 DAYS OFF PER MONTH. While we were not entirely successful with this one for last month, days OFF were increased to 7 and there is a positive path to achieving greater utilization of our crews and better Rosters in the future. Please remember that a high number of sick or no-shows is the quickest way to ensure that days scheduled OFF get used up in required roster changes.
·EXPENSES. Sama will begin a new policy on October 1st that pays meal expenses as a function of hours away from base. HR will email and distribute the details of the policy very shortly, but the summary of the policy is as follows: For every hour away from Base, Sama will pay flight and cabin crew at a rate of 7.5 SAR for meal expenses. This totals 180 SAR per 24 hour period. These meal expenses will be paid along with Salary and sector pay each month. Breakfast will continue to be included with hotel and meals provided for crew on board the aircraft will continue. If actual expenses incurred are greater than the 180 SAR paid per day, the difference may still be claimed according to Sama expense policy.
·OTHER. Andrew has highlighted that we are in the processing of securing additional aircraft allowing a dedicated spare aircraft at both our bases of DMM and JED. This is a costly investment but designed to improve operational reliability, which has been one the of the most unsatisfactory issues for all of us to date. There are numerous other issues that are in the process of being rectified and the Sama that you see in 6 months will definitely be a better place to work.
We must protect our operation as this is what ultimately pays (as explained above) each of your salaries. As such our policies for unapproved Sick, No-Show and Refusal to fly will be upheld without exception. These are policies designed to protect those of you who do your part day in and day out to make Sama a great place to work and continue to be the source of our salaries and security for ourselves and our families.
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SAMA need the Saudi Government to subsidize them in the same manner as they subsidize a 100% wholly owned flag carrier airline, what’s the point? What’s in it for the government?
Mutt
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Management Memo
seRIOusGRUdge any comments regarding the memo from management. It seems to me typical, from a bunch of guys having fun and getting wealthy in the middle east. I thought the management are from Brazil.
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Where was the market study by the investors (the founders) of this airline? Wasn't it known that there is a price cap in the Kingdom? Or is this just a case of a Prince wanting to have his own hobby airline? 
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These letters was a motivation speech for the hardworking staff who were not going to be paid on time, now everyone is wondering if the salary will come on the date its supposed to. The truth is when the salary comes, it's not so bad really, it is good money.
The managements are not from Brazil, not really. True that the management pilots are mostly from Varig but flighit operations director is from USA, a good guy. The office management is from many other countries like UK and US and some others in middle east.
If they are becoming wealthy? perhaps, but they are not there becasue they like the place so money is the only motivating thing.
The managements are not from Brazil, not really. True that the management pilots are mostly from Varig but flighit operations director is from USA, a good guy. The office management is from many other countries like UK and US and some others in middle east.
If they are becoming wealthy? perhaps, but they are not there becasue they like the place so money is the only motivating thing.
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Its nice to have some positive news about SAMA, they have announced flights to India starting next Jan with fares starting at SAR199..... It was interesting to see that their chief executive is 1: Still in his position! (NAS are on their 3rd or 4th) and 2: He doesnt want people to consider them a low cost airline.
They will also introduce 5 more aircraft in 2009, types not mentioned.
Mutt
They will also introduce 5 more aircraft in 2009, types not mentioned.
Mutt
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I heard that salaries are not paid until now, if true it is a bad indicator.
Having the same CEO does not necessarily mean competence, or good thing. It is the same if someone is changed, does not mean the person is incompetent.
Maybe Sama needs a change, if they are unable to pay salaries. As per the memo they seem to have reduced domestic flight where they are not making money to minimum, what is the problem now.
Having the same CEO does not necessarily mean competence, or good thing. It is the same if someone is changed, does not mean the person is incompetent.
Maybe Sama needs a change, if they are unable to pay salaries. As per the memo they seem to have reduced domestic flight where they are not making money to minimum, what is the problem now.
Last edited by Rivera; 4th Nov 2008 at 11:23.
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name undersigned
hy, the name on the letter was the CEO's.... i believe it's better for any pilot to avoid joining this company right now, not only salaries have been delayed, since february.
Management is from UK, pilots from brazil, indonesia, philipines and KSA; some have already resigned and the others are looking for jobs. 16 hours duty time, until last month only 4 days off in the roster, airplanes are old and management is not looking for new equipment. Airbus or Ng only for the Hajj, no 767 at all. Overnight accommodation is the worse possible, no respect for rest or day off; unprofessional policy coming from the top, a lot of mistakes and lies from the top....
br
Duster
Management is from UK, pilots from brazil, indonesia, philipines and KSA; some have already resigned and the others are looking for jobs. 16 hours duty time, until last month only 4 days off in the roster, airplanes are old and management is not looking for new equipment. Airbus or Ng only for the Hajj, no 767 at all. Overnight accommodation is the worse possible, no respect for rest or day off; unprofessional policy coming from the top, a lot of mistakes and lies from the top....
br
Duster
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Still No Salary!
No salary until now. They delayed for another week or maybe more, inshala. Couldnt agree more with you Dustwing, dont come unless you have no job and want to sign the bond $ 25,000 for an old plane rating.
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@McCain,
are they willing to take fresh pilots. Got 920 hours, no type rating. even willing to sign the so-called $25000 bond as long as they give me something to fly.
are they willing to take fresh pilots. Got 920 hours, no type rating. even willing to sign the so-called $25000 bond as long as they give me something to fly.
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Wonder if Sama is the customer, heard they are getting 4 planes in 2009, and their fleet is really old
From another thread
EgyptAir gets rid of it's B737-500s
Finally Egyptair sold it's fleet of 4 b737-500s, scheduled to be delivered to buyer at January 2009. the planes came in service early 90s.
Currrently EgyptAir has 5 B737-800s with 7 more on Boeing delivery list. Held back by the strike at Boeing the next delivery was postponed to March 2009 instead of December 2008.
Seen at this link is one of the planes with no color scheme in preperation of the sale.
JetPhotos.Net Photo » SU-GBK (CN: 26052) EgyptAir Boeing 737-566 by GregoryK
From another thread
EgyptAir gets rid of it's B737-500s Finally Egyptair sold it's fleet of 4 b737-500s, scheduled to be delivered to buyer at January 2009. the planes came in service early 90s.
Currrently EgyptAir has 5 B737-800s with 7 more on Boeing delivery list. Held back by the strike at Boeing the next delivery was postponed to March 2009 instead of December 2008.
Seen at this link is one of the planes with no color scheme in preperation of the sale.
JetPhotos.Net Photo » SU-GBK (CN: 26052) EgyptAir Boeing 737-566 by GregoryK
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Any question the prophet will answer.
Pilots are from Brazil
Have they hired any pilots lately? Like, 2 or 3 months ago?
Thanks
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answer
hy, they are trying to hire experienced people, but requirements are getting higher with training bond... right now, no chance for low hour or non type rated. I regret, but i have to agree with the prophet.
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Thanks for the answer.
What happens is that I know this pilot who said he was going to Sama and reading all these posts I ended up believing it was not possible and he was lying.
He was flying in a brazilian airline (that we know which one it is, but I prefer not to mention it) and one day just decided to get out of the country because the airline wasn´t good enough. But that´s another subject and I agree with him.
Looks like he didn´t make the right choice though...
What happens is that I know this pilot who said he was going to Sama and reading all these posts I ended up believing it was not possible and he was lying.
He was flying in a brazilian airline (that we know which one it is, but I prefer not to mention it) and one day just decided to get out of the country because the airline wasn´t good enough. But that´s another subject and I agree with him.
Looks like he didn´t make the right choice though...
Last edited by Pequena_Inquieta; 7th Nov 2008 at 12:01.