Be Careful What You Wish For.
Thread Starter
Be Careful What You Wish For.
The Three Groups at EK
1/ Been here more than four years, they remember the good times, a large group but proportionally a low rate of postings. Tend to shut up and now increasingly to get out.
2/ Been here less than four years, now disillusioned they joined on the strength of EKs previously fine reputation. Proportionally a high rate of negative postings, but now here, will probably stay for hopeful command and then consider their options.
3/ DECs, a small group that doesn't fit in. Proportionally quite a high rate of postings, trying to justify their decision and their position at EK.
So, the most vocal group is the new joiners. Anybody thinking of joining be aware of that.
Also be aware that as EK takes on more DECs, career prospects for First Officers will decline. This is already happening.
What if the complaining new joiners had not joined?
Maybe the company would have been obliged to review the package. Maybe instead of a declining package, an improved package would have been in place by now.
By joining you become part of the problem, by staying away, at least for the time being, you might be part of the solution.
For the people already here it will get worse before it gets better.
Fact. More people have resigned in the last year than in the ten previous years. In an attempt to disguise this the company have recently removed the facility on the internal computer network that displays resignations.
Remember no, repeat, no representation at Emirates. They only understand people voting with their feet, either by leaving or not coming in the first place.
1/ Been here more than four years, they remember the good times, a large group but proportionally a low rate of postings. Tend to shut up and now increasingly to get out.
2/ Been here less than four years, now disillusioned they joined on the strength of EKs previously fine reputation. Proportionally a high rate of negative postings, but now here, will probably stay for hopeful command and then consider their options.
3/ DECs, a small group that doesn't fit in. Proportionally quite a high rate of postings, trying to justify their decision and their position at EK.
So, the most vocal group is the new joiners. Anybody thinking of joining be aware of that.
Also be aware that as EK takes on more DECs, career prospects for First Officers will decline. This is already happening.
What if the complaining new joiners had not joined?
Maybe the company would have been obliged to review the package. Maybe instead of a declining package, an improved package would have been in place by now.
By joining you become part of the problem, by staying away, at least for the time being, you might be part of the solution.
For the people already here it will get worse before it gets better.
Fact. More people have resigned in the last year than in the ten previous years. In an attempt to disguise this the company have recently removed the facility on the internal computer network that displays resignations.
Remember no, repeat, no representation at Emirates. They only understand people voting with their feet, either by leaving or not coming in the first place.
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: Not sure now
Posts: 540
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally Posted by whossorrynow
Maybe the company would have been obliged to review the package. Maybe instead of a declining package, an improved package would have been in place by now.
By joining you become part of the problem, by staying away, at least for the time being, you might be part of the solution.
By joining you become part of the problem, by staying away, at least for the time being, you might be part of the solution.
Be careful what you wish for
TP
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Somewhere in the world
Posts: 137
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally Posted by whossorrynow
What if the complaining new joiners had not joined?
Maybe the company would have been obliged to review the package. Maybe instead of a declining package, an improved package would have been in place by now.
By joining you become part of the problem, by staying away, at least for the time being, you might be part of the solution.
Maybe the company would have been obliged to review the package. Maybe instead of a declining package, an improved package would have been in place by now.
By joining you become part of the problem, by staying away, at least for the time being, you might be part of the solution.
Without a union on the property, it is obvious that your only leverage for improving your situation is through supply and demand. You need to decrease the supply of pilots interested in the job to the point where management will improve the package. It appears there is a group of pilots trying to do that through this forum. But still, some of us know people with real names and faces at Emirates who are happy there. Who are we to believe?
My current company's pilot group has a forum like this for tossing around company issues. Most of the pilots in my company are really very happy with their jobs except for the current downsizing and furloughs. But there is a pervasive negativity on that forum too (always has been), way out of proportion to the feelings in the company in general. Why?
1. People will say things on the forum that they will never say in person. It is so easy to vent your frustrations on line where your real name is not even known.
2. These forums tend to attract only a small segment of the total group of people, and when a guy is happy and contented there seems to be no reason to go to the internet to post something. It is when he is frustrated and angry that he is suddenly motivated to go to the internet and air his grievances.
The bottom line is that all the negativity on this forum seems a bit exaggerated. It appears there is a small group of guys who come here regularly to vent. And you just told us why.
GoForIt
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: uae
Posts: 2,777
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
not as bad as you think, but not great by any means
if new f/o's dont come there will be more DEC's because they cannot release the already delayed EK f/o'sfor upgrade training,keep in mind the airplanes here need 1 Capt and 1 F/O,so new airplanes need F/O's just as much as Capt.'s
just as the thread title says with out the intake of F/O's your upgrade may be delayed
if new f/o's dont come there will be more DEC's because they cannot release the already delayed EK f/o'sfor upgrade training,keep in mind the airplanes here need 1 Capt and 1 F/O,so new airplanes need F/O's just as much as Capt.'s
just as the thread title says with out the intake of F/O's your upgrade may be delayed
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: desert city
Posts: 146
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Or .........there might be a few guys who dont have their head burried in the sand ......and are trying to at least give an objective view on life here.
I too have read a few posts that seem a little emotional but in most of them so far there is a thread of truth.
Go for it.....i am sorry about ya mates being laid off and I hear the aviation scene is a little shabby in the US right now ....but please remember we live here and we see a lot of what goes in EK .........as well as the experience of day to day life in this rapidly expanding desert city and its not all good.
if you are thinking of coming over please ask your mates who are already in Dubai to give you an honest objective view on both the company and the life here. If they are really your mates, I think you will be very surprised at whats not being discussed here on this forum.
TR
I too have read a few posts that seem a little emotional but in most of them so far there is a thread of truth.
Go for it.....i am sorry about ya mates being laid off and I hear the aviation scene is a little shabby in the US right now ....but please remember we live here and we see a lot of what goes in EK .........as well as the experience of day to day life in this rapidly expanding desert city and its not all good.
if you are thinking of coming over please ask your mates who are already in Dubai to give you an honest objective view on both the company and the life here. If they are really your mates, I think you will be very surprised at whats not being discussed here on this forum.
TR
Thread Starter
GoForIt
Excuse me for attempting to improve the lot of the established crews at EK. Of course my loyalties should lie with a bunch of traditionally overpaid Americans who having soiled their own patch now seek to come and soil ours.
You appear to have seen a 'red mist' when confronted with my contradiction to your future planning, and have focussed on my suggestion that if less people joined EK things might improve in time. Perhaps you should focus, for example, on my objective information about unprecedented resignations, and then conclude that there may be some truth in the information posted on this forum.
Incidentally, no one is going to publish their roster on a public forum that is known to be monitored by EK management. Or send it to an unknown recipient.
Although this forum is the only form of representation available to crews in this area, and I value that, I don't entirely agree with the concept of strength through representation. Its record in your country speaks for itself.
Excuse me for attempting to improve the lot of the established crews at EK. Of course my loyalties should lie with a bunch of traditionally overpaid Americans who having soiled their own patch now seek to come and soil ours.
You appear to have seen a 'red mist' when confronted with my contradiction to your future planning, and have focussed on my suggestion that if less people joined EK things might improve in time. Perhaps you should focus, for example, on my objective information about unprecedented resignations, and then conclude that there may be some truth in the information posted on this forum.
Incidentally, no one is going to publish their roster on a public forum that is known to be monitored by EK management. Or send it to an unknown recipient.
Although this forum is the only form of representation available to crews in this area, and I value that, I don't entirely agree with the concept of strength through representation. Its record in your country speaks for itself.
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Bahamas
Age: 57
Posts: 7
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Not Objective
Clear cut safety reports by recognised organisations have been posted on this forum, what more do you want.........a book?
If EK management is looking at this forum then they know what's comming next.
Maybe on the blacklist with the tour operators.
If EK management is looking at this forum then they know what's comming next.
Maybe on the blacklist with the tour operators.
.............
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: London
Posts: 117
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
GoForIt.
The opinions expressed here are not those of a minority. You are more likely to find a happy Boeing pilot than a happy Airbus pilot cause the airbus fleet has been thrashed for the past 2 years due to undermanning. The Boeing fleet are about to feel this.
It is a rare day when I fly with a happy pilot, from either seat. This airline has significant manning problems, generated by poor management.
Come for your interview, believe the hype, resign and leave your home country, then in about 6 months to a year, change your pprune handle and start complaining like the majority of EK pilots!
The opinions expressed here are not those of a minority. You are more likely to find a happy Boeing pilot than a happy Airbus pilot cause the airbus fleet has been thrashed for the past 2 years due to undermanning. The Boeing fleet are about to feel this.
It is a rare day when I fly with a happy pilot, from either seat. This airline has significant manning problems, generated by poor management.
Come for your interview, believe the hype, resign and leave your home country, then in about 6 months to a year, change your pprune handle and start complaining like the majority of EK pilots!
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: Australia
Posts: 8
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I can't speak for EK guys but what ever you do, do not come to Australia to live and work, especially Sydney.
Racial violence is at an all time high, the entire beach side suburb of Cronulla was locked down for a week after racial riots. Tax is 47c in the dollar plus you pay a GST(VAT) of 10% on all consumer products. Real estate is too expensive for the average pilot to get into unless you are willing to live an hour drive from the city and airport. The freeways are all tolled and the average toll is $4 a throw.
Let's not forget the current industrial situation. Laws have been passed to de-power unions and wages and conditions are on the slide. Jetstar pilots have agreed to fly the 380 for $167,000 as a Captain and 4 of the Qantas 330 are being taken from Qantas and given to Jetstar to be flown on half the money. A Jetstar 330 Captain earns $147,000 before paying 47c in the dollar tax. As a Qantas pilot, don't expect to become a Captain under about 13 years of service and then it will to be the most junior Captain with no roster stability, just an entire roster of reserve every second roster.
There is no schooling allowance, no medical, no housing.... in fact there are no extras on top of your basic pay.
The truth is that everything I said above is true but I would not leave Qantas. I am trying to illustrate that things are never as bad as we like to think they are. I had beers in Singapore with a few EK crews and I heard from both ends of the happiness scale. Everything from how wonderful it is and everyone should be so lucky to a guy asking me how to apply to Jetstar and get paid $85,000 before tax to live in Sydney (Sydney one of the top 20 most expensive cities in the world).
It is all about perspective isn't it. I suspect EK is not as bad as pprune would make out.
Racial violence is at an all time high, the entire beach side suburb of Cronulla was locked down for a week after racial riots. Tax is 47c in the dollar plus you pay a GST(VAT) of 10% on all consumer products. Real estate is too expensive for the average pilot to get into unless you are willing to live an hour drive from the city and airport. The freeways are all tolled and the average toll is $4 a throw.
Let's not forget the current industrial situation. Laws have been passed to de-power unions and wages and conditions are on the slide. Jetstar pilots have agreed to fly the 380 for $167,000 as a Captain and 4 of the Qantas 330 are being taken from Qantas and given to Jetstar to be flown on half the money. A Jetstar 330 Captain earns $147,000 before paying 47c in the dollar tax. As a Qantas pilot, don't expect to become a Captain under about 13 years of service and then it will to be the most junior Captain with no roster stability, just an entire roster of reserve every second roster.
There is no schooling allowance, no medical, no housing.... in fact there are no extras on top of your basic pay.
The truth is that everything I said above is true but I would not leave Qantas. I am trying to illustrate that things are never as bad as we like to think they are. I had beers in Singapore with a few EK crews and I heard from both ends of the happiness scale. Everything from how wonderful it is and everyone should be so lucky to a guy asking me how to apply to Jetstar and get paid $85,000 before tax to live in Sydney (Sydney one of the top 20 most expensive cities in the world).
It is all about perspective isn't it. I suspect EK is not as bad as pprune would make out.
Join Date: Mar 2000
Posts: 347
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Too true backwater. Why don't people post their rosters here? Because part of the airline culture here is 'like it or leave it'. The bosses won't tolerate either constructive or destructive criticism. So a guy who posts his roster will immediately draw the attenton of the head shed and that is not a positive thing to do in this type of environment.
It's not 'cos the guys are hiding great 70 hr, two day trips to paradise, 10 day off rosters.
To the Q guys, it might be going wormy at home, but being at home is worth a lot cash. Otherwise try it and see.
It's not 'cos the guys are hiding great 70 hr, two day trips to paradise, 10 day off rosters.
To the Q guys, it might be going wormy at home, but being at home is worth a lot cash. Otherwise try it and see.
Thread Starter
Thanks LIP-EZE, I agree with your point that people will put up with a lot of BS to stay at home.
Being short of crews and overworked one might think that a large group of Americans coming to Save the Day at Emirates is just what's needed, right?
Well no, the reason people are leaving and quality people are not joining is because of the battering being administered to the EK package, in particular the "cost neutral' revision to the credit system, followed by erosion of buying power due rampant inflation in Dubai, followed by diminishing prospects for First Officers due to the DEC program and so on.
On every flight I have been on in recent months I have witnessed a coversation between flight crew, cabin crew and engineering about the slide in standards within this company. Due I believe to micro cost management by middle management, leading to a devalued product for staff and perhaps more importantly the customer. I understand that middle management take 10% of what they notionally save.
'Keep Discovering' has become a joke catchphrase on the line, and not in a good way.
So, what is the answer for flight crew?
A return to the previous credit system and a salary hike only half way towards the level of the Cathay package would turn this flight ops department around.
Resignations would reduce to a trickle, quality people would want to join again, the DEC program would gradually fade away as it did in the early '90s when EK started to become an employer of choice.
Whatever happens, its going to get worse at Emirates before it gets better. The problem is, it may never get better.
At the moment its a sick airline.
Being short of crews and overworked one might think that a large group of Americans coming to Save the Day at Emirates is just what's needed, right?
Well no, the reason people are leaving and quality people are not joining is because of the battering being administered to the EK package, in particular the "cost neutral' revision to the credit system, followed by erosion of buying power due rampant inflation in Dubai, followed by diminishing prospects for First Officers due to the DEC program and so on.
On every flight I have been on in recent months I have witnessed a coversation between flight crew, cabin crew and engineering about the slide in standards within this company. Due I believe to micro cost management by middle management, leading to a devalued product for staff and perhaps more importantly the customer. I understand that middle management take 10% of what they notionally save.
'Keep Discovering' has become a joke catchphrase on the line, and not in a good way.
So, what is the answer for flight crew?
A return to the previous credit system and a salary hike only half way towards the level of the Cathay package would turn this flight ops department around.
Resignations would reduce to a trickle, quality people would want to join again, the DEC program would gradually fade away as it did in the early '90s when EK started to become an employer of choice.
Whatever happens, its going to get worse at Emirates before it gets better. The problem is, it may never get better.
At the moment its a sick airline.
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Tent
Posts: 41
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
GoForIt
Your friends in EK who have given you another view contrary to what is written here must be working for another airline.As Ernie has said it is obvious with the culture of persecuting within this company why EK pilots dont advertise their rosters on this forum.If you want to come and try this fantastic job why dont just sign up when they pass by your neck of the woods in the US.Be our guest.I guarantee you will be complaining before you
get on your joining flight.
Typhoon why dont you get of the fence and actually join recruitment as you seem to be doing such a great job.A natural patriot.(try running a search on google by entering "typhoonpilot".Im surprised you aren't on a retainer T with all the positive propaganda over numerous sites that you seem to post)
The reason you dont get any input from the 5 yr plus guys as they are too busy filling in their logbooks and job applications.Actually Lip-Eze I said I would go to J* for 85k only if they would give me a leather jacket like Virgin Blue.
Your friends in EK who have given you another view contrary to what is written here must be working for another airline.As Ernie has said it is obvious with the culture of persecuting within this company why EK pilots dont advertise their rosters on this forum.If you want to come and try this fantastic job why dont just sign up when they pass by your neck of the woods in the US.Be our guest.I guarantee you will be complaining before you
get on your joining flight.
Typhoon why dont you get of the fence and actually join recruitment as you seem to be doing such a great job.A natural patriot.(try running a search on google by entering "typhoonpilot".Im surprised you aren't on a retainer T with all the positive propaganda over numerous sites that you seem to post)
The reason you dont get any input from the 5 yr plus guys as they are too busy filling in their logbooks and job applications.Actually Lip-Eze I said I would go to J* for 85k only if they would give me a leather jacket like Virgin Blue.
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: under a wet rock
Posts: 25
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Seems to me that typhoonpilot posts more facts than most guys. He hasn't always been negative about EK nor has he always been positive. He's just smart enough to not "take the bait" and become emotional in his posts. Good on him!
I think there is a group of guys here who are jealous because everyone is not a miserable human being like themselves so they tend to attack others who don't share their negativity or support them in their whining and moaning.
Standing by for incoming
330
On another note:
whossorrynow says:
"Excuse me for attempting to improve the lot of the established crews at EK. Of course my loyalties should lie with a bunch of traditionally overpaid Americans who having soiled their own patch now seek to come and soil ours."
Que? How have the the Americans soiled their own patch?
P.S. Are the rosters for April in the same envelope as the profit share check?
I think there is a group of guys here who are jealous because everyone is not a miserable human being like themselves so they tend to attack others who don't share their negativity or support them in their whining and moaning.
Standing by for incoming
330
On another note:
whossorrynow says:
"Excuse me for attempting to improve the lot of the established crews at EK. Of course my loyalties should lie with a bunch of traditionally overpaid Americans who having soiled their own patch now seek to come and soil ours."
Que? How have the the Americans soiled their own patch?
P.S. Are the rosters for April in the same envelope as the profit share check?
Last edited by 330 heavy; 23rd Mar 2006 at 14:03.
Thread Starter
330 heavy
Some thoughts about being in and then exporting the "doo doo" (to use the American parlance).
No great expert on the whys and wherefores of the American situation, but didn't they just price themseves out of the job, leaving the door wide open for Jetblue and the other low cost carriers.
Don't suppose they could have done it without the push of the unions, but I doubt that anybody was complaining about being overpaid at the time.
I appreciate that there were other factors, but the effect was general, not just in the US.
You might say that I am trying to do the same thing at EK, but I don't see EK ever matching the salaries of the US majors. And for obvious reasons I wouldn't want that.
Que? How many Jetblue guys will be applying to Emirates.
Another Que? What reaction would there have been to the US majors taking DECs? Not that relevant I know, but a thought for the US DEC applicants to take to bed with them.
Nothing personal. Love the country, love the people, the US that is. Really.
Some thoughts about being in and then exporting the "doo doo" (to use the American parlance).
No great expert on the whys and wherefores of the American situation, but didn't they just price themseves out of the job, leaving the door wide open for Jetblue and the other low cost carriers.
Don't suppose they could have done it without the push of the unions, but I doubt that anybody was complaining about being overpaid at the time.
I appreciate that there were other factors, but the effect was general, not just in the US.
You might say that I am trying to do the same thing at EK, but I don't see EK ever matching the salaries of the US majors. And for obvious reasons I wouldn't want that.
Que? How many Jetblue guys will be applying to Emirates.
Another Que? What reaction would there have been to the US majors taking DECs? Not that relevant I know, but a thought for the US DEC applicants to take to bed with them.
Nothing personal. Love the country, love the people, the US that is. Really.
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Blingland
Age: 56
Posts: 329
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Well according to Typhoonpilot who posted recently on Airlinepilotcentralhttp://forums.airlinepilotcentral.co...t=1954&page=12
His words not mine, if we complain we are w******s. Hmmm 
SyB
The wankers who complain endlessly on PPrune have lost touch with reality. I had so much time off and away from Dubai last year that it is embarrassing to say how much. I spent two full months in Taiwan, one of them perfectly coinciding with the birth of my son. I flew just over 700 hours in 2004 and 619 in 2005. There are quite a few guys on the A340 that hit 900 ( the maximum ). The 777 guys will fly more this year, but we'll never have the A340/A330 fleet's problems because everybody is qualifed to fly both short haul and long haul. I personally find that I get adequate rest between flights.
SyB
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: desert city
Posts: 146
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
well well well
nice action Shiek....I guess Typhoon is very very happy
and that is great ......I am very happy for him
.....however thats not a nice assesment of your colleages Typhoonpilot. I dont consider myself a w@$ker or anybody else on this forum. it is what it is.
those rose coloured sunnies you wear....
..... will soon break ...and when they do post something on here and be a little honest........... you are the 1st guy I know who was able to take 2 months off to have a baby......congrats by the way. 
if you are on the 330/340 fleet I reckon that it would have been next to impossible to achieve that lenght of time off.
I heard a rumour that a 777 capt tried to take a few days off recently for the same reason........ while being back in Aussie......he got a final warning when he arrived back to dubai. .......
he called crew control and told them that his wife was giving birth and he was unable to make it back for a flight out of dubai and needed a few extra days off.......aparrently this was denied and so he pulled sick.
poor fella got back to Dubai....got told off and resigned on the spot....such a waste especially when he is needed so bady on the 777 fleet at the moment .....the roster is still up on the crew room wall in CBC if you want to see for your self.
Just another rumour with a little truth attached
TR
nice action Shiek....I guess Typhoon is very very happy
and that is great ......I am very happy for him
.....however thats not a nice assesment of your colleages Typhoonpilot. I dont consider myself a w@$ker or anybody else on this forum. it is what it is. those rose coloured sunnies you wear....
..... will soon break ...and when they do post something on here and be a little honest........... you are the 1st guy I know who was able to take 2 months off to have a baby......congrats by the way. if you are on the 330/340 fleet I reckon that it would have been next to impossible to achieve that lenght of time off.I heard a rumour that a 777 capt tried to take a few days off recently for the same reason........ while being back in Aussie......he got a final warning when he arrived back to dubai. .......
he called crew control and told them that his wife was giving birth and he was unable to make it back for a flight out of dubai and needed a few extra days off.......aparrently this was denied and so he pulled sick.
poor fella got back to Dubai....got told off and resigned on the spot....such a waste especially when he is needed so bady on the 777 fleet at the moment .....the roster is still up on the crew room wall in CBC if you want to see for your self.
Just another rumour with a little truth attached
TR
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: Not sure now
Posts: 540
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Since we're now chasing down's my posts on other forums to show how I'm such a rah rah EK poster ( How pathetic is that ? 
), let's look at some more:
In fairness though I do council pilots from the States that I would choose SWA, Fedex, UPS, and maybe a few others over EK if I were younger and had a long career ahead of me. Those people have time to work their way up a huge seniority list to reach the good paying positions with decent schedules. If, however, you are in your late 30s or older then Emirates and possibly other foreign carriers are a very viable alternative.
I could find more, but off to work now
TP
), let's look at some more:In fairness though I do council pilots from the States that I would choose SWA, Fedex, UPS, and maybe a few others over EK if I were younger and had a long career ahead of me. Those people have time to work their way up a huge seniority list to reach the good paying positions with decent schedules. If, however, you are in your late 30s or older then Emirates and possibly other foreign carriers are a very viable alternative.
I could find more, but off to work now
TP
Thread Starter
He doesn't like being found out, but hey, this typhoon pilot must have spent most of his two months off posting, don't see how he could put out the sheer volume otherwise. 243 posts on Pprune alone.
Seems a bit schizoid though, in January he posted that he wouldn't have joined EK if he had known that they were going to take DECs.
Perhaps the new left seat is acting as a bit of a softener. Quite surprised at the bad language though, he seems quite rational on Pprune.
To sum up the other posters on this thread, as thats where this thread started:
The negative feedback is coming from non EK Americans.
The 'sitting on the fence' posts are coming from EK Americans.
The supportive feedback is coming from EK non Americans.
One QF Australian posted his life story.
And there was a garbled post from a Belgian who was 'let go' from EK many years ago.
No surprises really I suppose, except typhoon pilot's bad temper.
Seems a bit schizoid though, in January he posted that he wouldn't have joined EK if he had known that they were going to take DECs.
Perhaps the new left seat is acting as a bit of a softener. Quite surprised at the bad language though, he seems quite rational on Pprune.
To sum up the other posters on this thread, as thats where this thread started:
The negative feedback is coming from non EK Americans.
The 'sitting on the fence' posts are coming from EK Americans.
The supportive feedback is coming from EK non Americans.
One QF Australian posted his life story.
And there was a garbled post from a Belgian who was 'let go' from EK many years ago.
No surprises really I suppose, except typhoon pilot's bad temper.