Swiss sending DEC to EY???
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Join Date: Feb 2003
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Swiss sending DEC to EY???
Is it true?
Fro a very reliable source:
Starting from may'06 Swiss will send 4 DEC on d 'buses to EY every month for 6 months.
By me it makes sence.
Poor aspiring EY FO's...
Fro a very reliable source:
Starting from may'06 Swiss will send 4 DEC on d 'buses to EY every month for 6 months.
By me it makes sence.
Poor aspiring EY FO's...
Join Date: Sep 2004
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I hope it will not happen
there are many experienced F/O s here in the Middle East. At EK, EY, GF and QR. There is no need of direct commands of former Swissair FO's. They should join the normal way and experience how hard it is to get to the left seat in a Middle East airline. They had it too good too long at the badly managed Swissair and even worse managed Swiss....! And don't forget to bring some CRM, especially to the older SR chaps!
Join Date: Mar 2003
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The same deal (sending Swiss FO's as DEC) fell through at ETIHAD and will fall through at EK... Simply because those chaps still make more money as Swiss FO's than as EK Captains...
The smart and adjustable Swiss FO's who were willing to move are already working for EK (as FO's), which means most of the rest are either unwilling to leave Switzerland or unwilling to take the pay-cut, or just plain unsuitable.
I wouldn't worry about it too much...
The smart and adjustable Swiss FO's who were willing to move are already working for EK (as FO's), which means most of the rest are either unwilling to leave Switzerland or unwilling to take the pay-cut, or just plain unsuitable.
I wouldn't worry about it too much...
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Like it or not - they will be hired. Swiss(air)'s pressure group has very strong ties to EY management. They not only plan to take over a major share of the workforce but also the power in middle management.
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Sounds like another case of foreign forces coming in at the behest of the local recruits, probably overpaid as usual and to create the same chaos that resulted in Swiss's spectacular ongoing demise.
I believe that there will definelty be Dizaster entry captains from Swiss, not so sure about the middle management, although to tell you the truth it seems desperatly needed by the sounds of things. Of course they can always hire them from the white colar jails for a fee, those would seem to be the most suitable for the current team.
The culture of the current managment is not one of accountability, the day that happens and delgation of authority takes place then maybe only then maybe they will get some proper management, for now, dream on!
I believe that there will definelty be Dizaster entry captains from Swiss, not so sure about the middle management, although to tell you the truth it seems desperatly needed by the sounds of things. Of course they can always hire them from the white colar jails for a fee, those would seem to be the most suitable for the current team.
The culture of the current managment is not one of accountability, the day that happens and delgation of authority takes place then maybe only then maybe they will get some proper management, for now, dream on!
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Sounds like another act of depotism by certain swiss people, just like the one we had in europe end and that led to the destruction of SR, SN, AOM etc.....
Will they never learn??????
Will they never learn??????
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Yeah, I am sure the former Swissair CEO would be interested, as he tried a few years ago to start his own new Low Cost airline flying from switzerland to the Middle East. Or what about the next CEO looser Corti (currently out of a job in Boston). And last not least former Crossair hero Dose (if he does not get arrested for the 2 crashes at LX).
We have to remember that the old SR was one of the world,s premier Airlines... not crossair or the new Swiss . That means any Captains or Fo,s who are deemed suitable will have been subjected to a far superior level of training than is currently common amongst middle eastern operators , it may not be a popular statement but it,s a fact .
A bit like premiere league vs. second division, as long as they leave their emotional baggage behind ,and accept that EY is not the same as the old firm they should be an asset to the company.
If expansion continues as planned then all current FO,s will get their chance , after all in SR it took at least 12 yrs of international flying before an upgrade became available and sometimes a lot longer.
A bit like premiere league vs. second division, as long as they leave their emotional baggage behind ,and accept that EY is not the same as the old firm they should be an asset to the company.
If expansion continues as planned then all current FO,s will get their chance , after all in SR it took at least 12 yrs of international flying before an upgrade became available and sometimes a lot longer.
Yes it does sound a bit arrogant I agree , and there are good assets within the company. I was referring to the quality of training and general standards , not the individuals and not management , that was arrogant and finally one could say criminal. I refer to the last group of senior managers and the so called board of directors.
Sadly a lot of top class Airlines are no longer players, think of Pan Am , B-Cal , and others who are on their their last legs.
SR had a 70 + yr. history was constantly in the top three Airlines world wide , as viewed by passengers and industry experts ,had an excellent training department which exported its know how , do you really believe there is a single Mid Eastern operator which can compare ? I know the difference believe me . Those days are gone forever and the world is left with bean counter run operations and generally slipping standards , through no fault of the individual crews or maintenance personnel I might add.
Sadly a lot of top class Airlines are no longer players, think of Pan Am , B-Cal , and others who are on their their last legs.
SR had a 70 + yr. history was constantly in the top three Airlines world wide , as viewed by passengers and industry experts ,had an excellent training department which exported its know how , do you really believe there is a single Mid Eastern operator which can compare ? I know the difference believe me . Those days are gone forever and the world is left with bean counter run operations and generally slipping standards , through no fault of the individual crews or maintenance personnel I might add.
Shake , are we talking about EK or EY ? I think you are right about Tand C, s at EK and EY seems similar , although management problems have got EY off to a very bad start .
EK is more established of course but it has to raise it,s attractiveness level to reach the good candidates , not meant to be arrogant , good people come from everywhere .
I know about training at EK it is acceptable , not brilliant but given the diverse backgrounds they deal with in general the standard is good and one can,t really ask for more in this environment. Still not premier league though ...sorry to say , and never will be .
I suppose what I meant was that the culture and effort put into training at SR produced a group, cockpit , cabin and maintenance
that had less variable standards than many new operators , this is not to say they are the Master race ( more an old German reputation) and a bit unfair these days. There are very good individuals everywhere and training makes the difference: in skills, motivation and performance: that and decent pay and conditions . This is why the desired standard of excellence cannot be reached in the ME.
Importing a group with the old SR background won,t make any difference unless all parameters are correct within the organisation and a clear set of standards are developed and rigorously maintained . Including fair pay and rostering practices, but they will provide well trained individuals when EY needs them , which is now , provided as I said they can fit into the multicultural environment : some do this very well and some don,t , just like everyone else.
The best solution is to grow personnel from within but as an ambitious start up EY cannot do that at the moment . When and if properly educated trained and motivated management personnel are in place, not opportunists,a problem everywhere it seems , then this should and must be possible. No organisation in the ME should have departments dominated by a single group or nationality it doesn,t fit the desired image of a company and often is ineffective, take the best from everywhere and try to get the balance right.
Wish you the very best
Jack
EK is more established of course but it has to raise it,s attractiveness level to reach the good candidates , not meant to be arrogant , good people come from everywhere .
I know about training at EK it is acceptable , not brilliant but given the diverse backgrounds they deal with in general the standard is good and one can,t really ask for more in this environment. Still not premier league though ...sorry to say , and never will be .
I suppose what I meant was that the culture and effort put into training at SR produced a group, cockpit , cabin and maintenance
that had less variable standards than many new operators , this is not to say they are the Master race ( more an old German reputation) and a bit unfair these days. There are very good individuals everywhere and training makes the difference: in skills, motivation and performance: that and decent pay and conditions . This is why the desired standard of excellence cannot be reached in the ME.
Importing a group with the old SR background won,t make any difference unless all parameters are correct within the organisation and a clear set of standards are developed and rigorously maintained . Including fair pay and rostering practices, but they will provide well trained individuals when EY needs them , which is now , provided as I said they can fit into the multicultural environment : some do this very well and some don,t , just like everyone else.
The best solution is to grow personnel from within but as an ambitious start up EY cannot do that at the moment . When and if properly educated trained and motivated management personnel are in place, not opportunists,a problem everywhere it seems , then this should and must be possible. No organisation in the ME should have departments dominated by a single group or nationality it doesn,t fit the desired image of a company and often is ineffective, take the best from everywhere and try to get the balance right.
Wish you the very best
Jack
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I am not sure that bringing in a swiss team will improve the quality of the management.
Had there been any foresight, WB and his lot should have been looking into developpping there people from the onset. Well we know what happened there and the result not only of this oversight but of many others some ill intended.
One of the problem that now prevails as is is said rightly in one of the previous posts is growth, EY will not be able to sustain the projected growth without DEC's etc... this compounded with the culture that has set in will be most difficult to manage, forget factors like whether some will adapt or not.
Now IMHO, RS and CC should be able to circumvent these problems with clear vision and foresight, they will need however the mandate specified and intervention as it seems to happen these days will only make the matters worse.
Had there been any foresight, WB and his lot should have been looking into developpping there people from the onset. Well we know what happened there and the result not only of this oversight but of many others some ill intended.
One of the problem that now prevails as is is said rightly in one of the previous posts is growth, EY will not be able to sustain the projected growth without DEC's etc... this compounded with the culture that has set in will be most difficult to manage, forget factors like whether some will adapt or not.
Now IMHO, RS and CC should be able to circumvent these problems with clear vision and foresight, they will need however the mandate specified and intervention as it seems to happen these days will only make the matters worse.
