B767 Direct Entry Captains at GF
Join Date: Feb 2004
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Are you saying that GF abuses their Jakarta passengers? Because if you read your post closely, that's exactly what you state...Hope that'e not the intent.
As far as dropping routes, how do you spell unfair competition? Etihad and the others have undercut pricing so low there are no profits left..what would you propose, keep on flying on a route that loses money or look for other more lucrative flying? (Airline Bizzness 101)
In addition there actually are more routes being developed, but did you actually think that you would be included in the marketing and commercial planning program? No way should the "big boss" include any non commercial personnel in that sort of decision making, we all complain that he's wrong and we know better. How is that? I don't have the books or anything else at my disposal and neither do you, so relax, do your job and leave if you want, it won't change anything for you anyway. the whole industry is much the same. But good luck anyway...oh by the way...your attitude is showing!
As far as dropping routes, how do you spell unfair competition? Etihad and the others have undercut pricing so low there are no profits left..what would you propose, keep on flying on a route that loses money or look for other more lucrative flying? (Airline Bizzness 101)
In addition there actually are more routes being developed, but did you actually think that you would be included in the marketing and commercial planning program? No way should the "big boss" include any non commercial personnel in that sort of decision making, we all complain that he's wrong and we know better. How is that? I don't have the books or anything else at my disposal and neither do you, so relax, do your job and leave if you want, it won't change anything for you anyway. the whole industry is much the same. But good luck anyway...oh by the way...your attitude is showing!
Join Date: Jun 2001
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Go ahead northern driver...get out...but somehow think you're not in to begin with...while many "gubmint handout airlines" service unprofitable routes to "maintain a market presence", thanks to previous "management" GF can ill afford to do this...so we are regrouping and becoming a real market driven airline...for better or for worse...and the nay-sayers are not welcome here...wish GF would give u all an NOC to hit the road....and don't let the door hit your ass on the way out....the rest of us are rising to the challenge..want to be a part of it?... or sit at home and whine and write backstabbing posts on the internet...challenge any one of you to e-mail your concerns to the "big kahuna" before slagging us all off here on Pprune..."incoming"...."thar you go"
Last edited by ironbutt57; 1st Mar 2005 at 12:38.
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Ah herd thyat...By the way, as the airline industry in this part of the world shows off their J----son's and brags about who has the biggest, I see that the reductions in other airlines amount to $$$ coming out of pockets of pilots, I don't see any coming out of mine. GF seems to have a handle on where the routes are and not having to undercut to put arses in seats. Show me yields on over- subsribed routes and I'll show you zero revenue. Get out while I still can? Why? Those who fail to learn from history are doomed to repeat it...
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I've surely been down "history trail" the hard way...been with GF 2 years...got 3 raises....could bitch and moan 'bout lots of things.....but could also be at a "big" airline going backwards....think I'll stay put
..."thar u go"
..."thar u go"
Join Date: Feb 2005
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“wish GF would give u all an NOC to hit the road”
Your are correct GF should be forthcoming with NOC’s but then they would have to either match terms and conditions or face losing a substantial number of both flight crew and cabin crew.
We can all renounce the obvious but the bottom line is giving up routes and aircraft is not a good sign, and goes against the current trend in the Gulf! I was of the opinion that CMB was a money making route.
Lets wait and see, still the best paint job!
Your are correct GF should be forthcoming with NOC’s but then they would have to either match terms and conditions or face losing a substantial number of both flight crew and cabin crew.
We can all renounce the obvious but the bottom line is giving up routes and aircraft is not a good sign, and goes against the current trend in the Gulf! I was of the opinion that CMB was a money making route.
Lets wait and see, still the best paint job!
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Well...I,m...'merican...and YO-nited, Delta, and the rest followed the "current trend"...Southwest didn't...and look at them all now....we might have hauled lots of pax out of CMB..and the gross revenue might have looked great...but where are they terminating, and do the transit/handling costs offset the operating costs?..folks with the big picture have made the decisions...they see the NET REVENUES generated by these markets, and apparently they didn't add up so let's put our assets to work in new markets, or increased frequencies in existing markets...my carrier in Cal. 22 yrs ago resisted the trend of buying big airplanes, and just used existing smaller, less exciting, EXISTING assets, (aircraft) to increase frequencies in markets that were viable, and if not, we just pulled out with no "love lost"..that was Wings West Airlines...now American Eagle...the sole survivor of about 10 carriers that came and went in half a decade, while we as pilots all bitched and moaned in the crew lounge about the competition getting fancy big planes...all the folks who laughed at us and our small turboprops eventually wound up below us on our seniority list.... carriers in the Gulf are going to be forced to be commercially viable...reality is just around the corner....so let's let the chips fall where they may...and the best of luck to all of us and the families we feed..(isn't that the real issue here?) and keep the opinions coming......and "never say never" and by the way...I just got a raise...not huge...covers my transportation costs....did you?
...and "never say never" and by the way...I just got a raise...not huge...covers my transportation costs....did you?
Last edited by ironbutt57; 1st Mar 2005 at 14:33.
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Thar ya go...It's all about the revenue. NOT about "we always flew there and we HAVE to because I like the hotel and the girls were...." you get the picture. As soon as this part of the gulf realises that the stream of money should be IN and not OUT, maybe the ride will settle down a bit. Still wondering if any of the "whingers" (sp?) know anything about Airline Bizzness 101...
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"Thar you go" ......if u have a house that is mobile and 12 cars that are not...u might be a redneck......or a GT pilot!!!! ....or a Canadian...
....or a Canadian...
Last edited by ironbutt57; 1st Mar 2005 at 14:55.
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Seems we are surrounded by experts, some of which have been in the locality for 10 minutes, just interested in facts not fiction, aviation in the Middle East does not necessary follow conventional business models. Political forces will unfortunately probably prevail!
Last edited by Basic Theory; 2nd Mar 2005 at 02:26.
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Do you mean political as in who knows whom? or who is related to so and so? If that's what you you mean the we're all scr*wd...cause that's what got this place in a bad spot before. I see a change, and actually, contrary to the last poster who has a poor idea of time, some of us have been in a lot longer than they might believe....(oh no!) But that's the bizzness I suppose, lot's think they know, but they don't F***in know...Thar ya go...
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Yeah well there "basic theory" u're surrounded by some with combined 60 yrs in the business been there seen it....so come along for the ride and see it for the first time..as we have seen it all before....."welcome my friend to the show that never ends...so glad you could attend....come inside...come inside"......PT Barnum....name ring a bell..????
oh yeah..i almost forgot...."thar u go"
oh yeah..i almost forgot...."thar u go"
Last edited by ironbutt57; 1st Mar 2005 at 16:28.
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No apology needed I'm afraid, the jumping to conclusions and accusations of commiting bizzness suicide are all based on innuendo and the ONLY fact here is that GF is closing some routes and opening others...there was no hijack as the original post was a simply a rant based on a rumour (that's what this network is mostly about!) So relax guys we're all just having a little go at the panic situation that's not really much to panic about! DEC's will come and go and the upgrade issue is really separate, in other words, to commercially keep an airline staffed at reasonable (not proper...!) levels an operator reserves the right to put crews where they are needed the most. To cover this sometimes DEC's are needed, it's not popular, but it has to be done, otherwise serious loss of revenue can occur. To train the upgrade candidates might take longer in certain situations, (DGCAM requirements not company) and is being addressed as quickly as manpower can handle it. So look at both sides, loss of revenue due to shortages of crew means loss of jobs...loss of time to upgrade sucks, but you still have a position, take your pick. I know which makes sense to me. Have a great day.
LC
LC
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Just some info (all prices are return exc taxes).
EY are selling CMB-AUH-LON at £250, and CMB-AUH at a very low £121.
EY have a 'bums of seat' strategy as they are new and for them all they care about is market share ... breaking even is probably low down on the list, let alone making profit.
For GF, if they chose to move the 767 from CMB to say BOM, lowest fare on BOM-AUH is £200.
It doesn't take a rocket scientist to work out what is better £121 vs £200.
From the outside, appears GF is getting more of a commercial head - remember prior to QR and EY, GF ran a similar type of ops - and they nearly went bankrupt.
Agree that politics does play a part, but what EK are doing is getting you to stopover in DXB (rather than transit), so you spend some $$$'s in the emirate.
EY are selling CMB-AUH-LON at £250, and CMB-AUH at a very low £121.
EY have a 'bums of seat' strategy as they are new and for them all they care about is market share ... breaking even is probably low down on the list, let alone making profit.
For GF, if they chose to move the 767 from CMB to say BOM, lowest fare on BOM-AUH is £200.
It doesn't take a rocket scientist to work out what is better £121 vs £200.
From the outside, appears GF is getting more of a commercial head - remember prior to QR and EY, GF ran a similar type of ops - and they nearly went bankrupt.
Agree that politics does play a part, but what EK are doing is getting you to stopover in DXB (rather than transit), so you spend some $$$'s in the emirate.
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scan,
dream on , it cost the company less to get DEC's than train f/o's to the left seat and hire and train another f/o to take your place
the bean counter's love it and that's all that counts right now don't go off on that's not right or it's not safe because it will fall on deft ears
as stated above it's the quick fix and the airlines like that way
dream on , it cost the company less to get DEC's than train f/o's to the left seat and hire and train another f/o to take your place
the bean counter's love it and that's all that counts right now don't go off on that's not right or it's not safe because it will fall on deft ears
as stated above it's the quick fix and the airlines like that way
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The problem of DEC has been solved in unionised airlines in the past by paying bypass salery to the affected first officer and protecting their seniority number.
Gulf Air would be wise to follow this solution today as having ignored other well established guidelines in the past the results were not cost effective.
Hi Fats,
It is a cost effective world.
Just traded my girlfriend for a more cost effective option from further East.
Cheers Scan
Gulf Air would be wise to follow this solution today as having ignored other well established guidelines in the past the results were not cost effective.
Hi Fats,
It is a cost effective world.
Just traded my girlfriend for a more cost effective option from further East.
Cheers Scan
Join Date: Aug 2004
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Notice the people justifying DEC are Capt. Hypocrites they were upgraded.
If they were told due commercial viability when a new aircraft arrives it will be crewed by the outside crew, those same people would be saying it is unfair.
Think how you would feel if you were bypassed?
It is time Captains support there FO we have supported you many times.
If they were told due commercial viability when a new aircraft arrives it will be crewed by the outside crew, those same people would be saying it is unfair.
Think how you would feel if you were bypassed?
It is time Captains support there FO we have supported you many times.