Bush to attack Iran & Syria - Problems for us in the Middle East
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Great speech from the Emperor
Yeah Jobear
There were NO WMD in Iraq but over 1400 of our soldiers dead, over 9000 wounded, 100000 Iraqis dead but now we have Democrazy in Iraq!
God bless the World!
Okay, so what happens now?
This last week has started to see the façade crumble away from the wars. Gone is the comfortable fraud, leaving in its wake a very stark and harsh reality.
The Carnegie Report affirmed that there had never been a military threat from Iraq, no weapons of mass destruction were poised just 45 minutes away to strike at hearth and home. The last-second discovery of a few dozen rusted out warheads from 10 years ago only underscored that the desperate attempt to find weapons of mass destruction to retroactively justify the war in Iraq had failed, and failed miserably.
The Carnegie Report came hard on the heels of Paul Bremer’s comments that claims of underground WMDs labs having been found in Iraq were a total fiction. Paul was apparently unaware that Prime Minister Tony Blair was the author of the aforesaid claims.
This was followed by a startling admission by Colin Powell that there was no evidence that linked Iraq or Saddam Hussein with Al Qaeda. This admission was startling because it was Colin Powell himself who nearly a year ago was assuring the world of the exact opposite, that Iraq was supporting and arming Al Qaeda.
A last-ditch attempt to explain the absence of WMDs in Iraq by claiming that Syria now had them was torpedoed by no less a personage than National Security Advisor Condoleeza Rice, who admitted for the record that there was no evidence at all that Iraq had sent WMDs to Syria, a reasonable conclusion now that it is apparent that Iraq did not have WMDs at all.
Finally we have former Treasury Secretary Paul O’Neill, who has gone public with the revelation that the Bush administration was planning war on Iraq from the day they took office, long before the events of 9-11.
None of these revelations are shocking to those people who get their news from the internet. What has changed is that the mainstream media, possibly out of concern that the internet has succeeded in capturing the lead in reporting stories of government wrongdoing (my own website now has a readership larger than all but the largest city newspapers) , has started to report these embarrassing admissions and exposures to the general public.
The immediate result of these stories is that non-computer literate Americans can no longer avoid what has been obvious to the internet Americans for months. The US Government lied to start wars planned long before the general public even knew they were coming.
No doubt there will be a great deal of denial on the part of those flag-waving ‘true believers’ who eagerly shipped off other people’s children to be killed and crippled. Nobody likes to admit they were wrong, or made a fool of, and we may see the flag-waving ‘true believers’ eager to ship off more of their neighbors’ kids to be killed before they are ready to admit their own error at not being more skeptical of the government’s pre-war claims.
But there can no longer be any doubt. The US Government lied to start the war in Iraq. The whole world knows that now. And more to the point, the whole world knows that Americans know that the US Government lied to start the war in Iraq. The world is now watching to see what the people of the United States will do. We must do something. No longer able to pretend we are innocent victims of government deception, the world will expect the people of the United States to do something about this horrific deception and the equally horrific war it created.
Americans have long held themselves up as the champions of justice and freedom for the rest of the world. It is our image to the world. It is our image to ourselves. It is how we define ourselves, it is our identity, and it is who we are collectively as a nation. And, if we fail to take action in the face of the lies used to start a war, we must in the process sacrifice that image, not only to the world, but to ourselves. Either one acts like a champion of truth and freedom, or one admits one is just another sheep. There is no other choice left.
Most Americans don’t want to face that choice. They want their cake and eat it too. They want to believe that, being Americans, they are honorable people willing to fight for principles, but being practical, they also don’t want to run the risks that taking a stand against corrupt government entails. It is for that reason that so many people will gratefully accept even the most obvious and shoddy propaganda lies, in order to avoid that choice. They can go on believing they have the courage to stand up for freedom and justice while pretending they do not see any reason to do so at the present moment.
But the current, “Big deal, so we lied” attitude of the administration has removed that comforting self-deception. Americans are facing that unpleasant choice of deciding whether they really do have the courage to stand up for truth, justice, and freedom, or if they are cowards who wear their convictions only for show on the appropriate social occasions.
For many Americans still believing the idea that the government is the servant of the people and is looking out for the people’s best interests, the revelation of the deception that took this nation to war in Iraq is a severe psychic shock, not unlike that felt by a child who realizes that it is not the child but the abusive parent that is the problem, or the discovery that one’s spouse has been cheating all along. Reactions to the shock will be varied, evolving through denial, anger, and finally acceptance.
Ultimately, after the angst, the choice Americans do not want to face will have to be made. First choice; stand up for freedom, truth, and justice. In other words, be what an American is supposed to be before the world and before oneself. Second choice, do nothing, and by that nothing cease to be what an American is supposed to be.
From those that choose the second course, we can expect the usual excuses, justifications, rationalizations, the pathetic “my country right or wrong” voiced in a thousand variations by a million useful idiots throughout history. Like the abused child making excuses for the abusing parent, or the cuckold covering up for the wandering spouse, these are pathetic people in deep denial, and can hardly be called Americans any longer. Having had their money and children stolen through lies and deceptions, they have now lost their very identity. In such surrender, in ceasing to live what America is supposed to be, such people have damaged the nation far more deeply than any real terror attack could hope to do, and must rank in history with those Germans who knew what Hitler was really doing, and stayed silent, or worse, were driven to fanaticism by their own denial that they were doing wrong.
For the rest of us, the time has come to face the reality of a government that rules us by lies and deceptions. Action is called for, at all levels of society.
At the very least, men and women of good conscience, confronted with the lies that led us to war in Iraq, must now abandon the assumption that the government has ever told us the truth about anything. Lies got us into war with Iraq. Did lies get us into war with Afghanistan? Was 9-11 a deception to further the war agenda?
The Warren Report claimed JFK was shot by a lone gunman, but the House Select Committee on Assassinations concluded JFK was killed by multiple gunmen. We are taught in school that Pearl Harbor was a surprise, but documents declassified in 1994 proved that FDR not only knew the Japanese were coming, but had goaded the Japanese into the attack, as a means to get the US into the war against the Axis. There were no torpedoes in the Gulf of Tonkin. USS Maine was not blown up by a Spanish mine but by a fire in a coal bunker located imprudently next to a magazine. The investigation into the attack by Israel on the USS Liberty was ordered by President Johnson to conclude the attack was an accident even though the evidence indicated otherwise. The Iraqis did not actually steal incubators from Kuwaiti hospitals.
Time and time again the stories We The People are fed to justify wars both current and past do not bear close scrutiny. Of the dozens of military interventions carried out by the US in the years since the Korean war under the claim of bringing democracy to the world, not one has actually resulted in a functioning democracy. In Chile, the US actually destroyed a democratic government to install the dictator Pinochet.
For those Americans with the courage to stand for truth, justice, and freedom, living under a government that lies is intolerable. And, given that the Constitution of the United States does not explicitly grant the government the right to lie to the people, it is illegal as well.
Let me reiterate. The Constitution of the United States does not explicitly grant the government the right to lie to the people. And the Tenth Amendment bars the government from simply assuming that right.
Therefore, under the rule of law, a government that lies acts both unconstitutionally and illegally. At the point in time when the lie is told, the government steps outside its lawful authority and ceases to be the legal government of this land. And for those Americans who have the courage to stand for truth, justice, and freedom, the time has come to acknowledge that the current government is acting in an illegal manner.
Clearly a government that lies to the people to take from them money and children for wars created out of personal desire and greed is not a government of the people, by the people, or for the people, but usurpers stealing gold and blood under false pretenses.
When Bush lied to start the war in Iraq, the entire government and media, with only a few exceptions, stood up to be counted with the lie. It therefore follows that the entire government has lost its legitimacy. How can it be legitimate? How can a government that claims to rule with the consent of the people claim to have that consent when the people never consented to being lied to?
Some observers have stated that because of the current lie, the burden of proof has shifted onto the government. In truth, it was always there. The government is always obligated to be able to document the accuracy and honesty of whatever it claims, whether it’s the ratification of the 16th amendment, or Dick Cheney’s Energy policy.
We live under a government that has lied to Americans to trick us into wars waged for conquest and profit. We cannot allow this to stand and remain Americans. Bush’s lies about Iraq have forced an unpleasant choice on you, and the time to choose what you will do about it is now.
What Really Happened
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JoBear
History dictates that the removal of the threat of invasion to the British Isles by Hitler's Nazis was largely down to the 'few' brave Royal Air Force pilots made up of mainly Brits but also Canadian, Austrailian, NewZealander, South African, Rhodesian, Polish, Free French, Belgian, Dutch, and a whole host of other countries who fought and died over Southern England in The Battle of Britain from May-Sept 1940 forcing Hitler to cancel his planned invasion.
The Brit's saved themselves with a little help from their friends in the Commonwealth countries and the Occupied countries in Europe.That battle was over and won 15 months before Pearl Harbour. You didnt save the Brits. You did however manage to 'liberate' Europe and shower yourselves with a little Kudos until the VietCong pulped it out of you and sent you packing in the 1970's...the Lebanese in the 1980's... the Somali's in the 1990's... and... who next..? "The Dune Coons?", "The Towel Heads?" or whatever derogatory and insulting label you give to a people who you don't understand? But if there's one thing you guys have shown the world and that is that you sure have "Running Away" down to a fine art!!
Your astonishing levels of ignorance also shine through with "...Iraqi voters turning out in record numbers...". Oh really, JoBear? Care to enlighten us when they've voted before?
And "...Stalin would still be purging his country..." Well that's just plain old bollocks isn't it. Uncle Sam didn't get rid of Uncle Joe did he. Joseph Stalin died decades ago... of natural causes.
Congratulations on your astounding typing skills but feel free to take that "...if it hadn't been for us, the brit's would be saluting Hitler..." crap and stick it up your 'Freedom-loving' arse. It's that particular brand of rhetoric that is making you the Pariahs of the world and the reason why any goatherder with a Kalashnikov is taking pot shots at anything remotely representing America from an F-15 to a Ford Maverick. You really are an ignorant, thick as pig sh1t, double dumb assed son-of-a-bitch aren't you? Now, Numbnuts, get back to your sofa in La-La Land with the rest of the Teletubbies
History dictates that the removal of the threat of invasion to the British Isles by Hitler's Nazis was largely down to the 'few' brave Royal Air Force pilots made up of mainly Brits but also Canadian, Austrailian, NewZealander, South African, Rhodesian, Polish, Free French, Belgian, Dutch, and a whole host of other countries who fought and died over Southern England in The Battle of Britain from May-Sept 1940 forcing Hitler to cancel his planned invasion.
The Brit's saved themselves with a little help from their friends in the Commonwealth countries and the Occupied countries in Europe.That battle was over and won 15 months before Pearl Harbour. You didnt save the Brits. You did however manage to 'liberate' Europe and shower yourselves with a little Kudos until the VietCong pulped it out of you and sent you packing in the 1970's...the Lebanese in the 1980's... the Somali's in the 1990's... and... who next..? "The Dune Coons?", "The Towel Heads?" or whatever derogatory and insulting label you give to a people who you don't understand? But if there's one thing you guys have shown the world and that is that you sure have "Running Away" down to a fine art!!
Your astonishing levels of ignorance also shine through with "...Iraqi voters turning out in record numbers...". Oh really, JoBear? Care to enlighten us when they've voted before?
And "...Stalin would still be purging his country..." Well that's just plain old bollocks isn't it. Uncle Sam didn't get rid of Uncle Joe did he. Joseph Stalin died decades ago... of natural causes.
Congratulations on your astounding typing skills but feel free to take that "...if it hadn't been for us, the brit's would be saluting Hitler..." crap and stick it up your 'Freedom-loving' arse. It's that particular brand of rhetoric that is making you the Pariahs of the world and the reason why any goatherder with a Kalashnikov is taking pot shots at anything remotely representing America from an F-15 to a Ford Maverick. You really are an ignorant, thick as pig sh1t, double dumb assed son-of-a-bitch aren't you? Now, Numbnuts, get back to your sofa in La-La Land with the rest of the Teletubbies
Last edited by Pontious; 5th Feb 2005 at 22:30.
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We cannot allow this to stand and remain Americans. Bush’s lies about Iraq have forced an unpleasant choice on you, and the time to choose what you will do about it is now.
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Thank you, Guys.
Initially I was surprised at the lack of reaction from Beavis and Butthead, sorry, Billy34 and JoBear until I noted the time difference and realised that they were probably 'hanging out down the mall' or 'loitering with intent ,armed with deadly bling-bling' at the nearest gas station.
After a night of fruitless attempts to do anything whatsoever they probably toddled off homeward bound ,via McD's of course, ready to snuggle up next to their Dubya Dolls and fall sound asleep totally oblivious to the world around them, dreaming of a 'Golden M' on every corner of every street in the world, being driven to school in a Hummer, bling bling being an intergral part of any and every uniform they aspire to wear and where meaninful conversation takes no more effort than a series of low grunts intertwined with an occasional "Yee-Harrgh" for good measure and to give a story a bit of a meaning. All the while the ammount of undigested red meat in their swollen bellies quietly magnifies.
In a couple of hours they will be stirring in their pits as they grapple with hardships such as 'bashing the bishop',getting dressed, 'cracking one off', showering, 'chopping wood' and once those chores are completed they set off in search of some much needed protein replenishment. After negotiating access to the high chair it's time for skip loads of Cheerios doused with lashings of lo-bullsh1t milk.
After being made to look publically presentable by doting Mater and Sister it's off to the local Evangelical Church of Latter Day Morons for much ado about nothing except screaming 'Praise The Lord and Hallelujah' while Beavis and Butthead muster the usual grunts this time coupled with an attempt at Hallelujah but manifesting itself as a 'Yee-Harrgh'.
The cleansing of souls, weekly brainwash, and update on the crusade behind them, 'Our Nations Finest' clamber aboard their SUV, Hummer or some other Kyoto violating, gas-guzzling, pollution belching Behemoth and set course for home, with a stop off for the obligatory leg stretch, caffeine intake and top-up of red meat where much gruntting and communal 'Yee-harrghs' are exchanged.
Fully fuelled and waddling with gay abandon, B&B test the suspension of their 4x4 'to da max' on the short drive home by actually sitting inside the beast as it coughs and beltches for all of its worth for the long 300 yard drive home to Trailer-Trashville, on the edge of La-La City limits. Once they've squeezed each other through the front (only) door, we witness the first tantrum of the day as they clock the closing credits of Teletubbies. In a red mist, Our Superheros' reach for their legally owned, licensed and registered M16's and menace the TV set. After receiving no joy they set about chancing their arm at mortal combat with the truth in the real world as they prepare to do battle with 'The Intanett' and discuss tactics on dismissing reliable 'factz n figguz' with their 'if all else fails' insurance policy of "...if it hadnt been for us the...blah..blah...blah...",. Mentally prepared,retarded and scarred they'll switch on their computer and read what I've written here.
"INCOMING!"
Initially I was surprised at the lack of reaction from Beavis and Butthead, sorry, Billy34 and JoBear until I noted the time difference and realised that they were probably 'hanging out down the mall' or 'loitering with intent ,armed with deadly bling-bling' at the nearest gas station.
After a night of fruitless attempts to do anything whatsoever they probably toddled off homeward bound ,via McD's of course, ready to snuggle up next to their Dubya Dolls and fall sound asleep totally oblivious to the world around them, dreaming of a 'Golden M' on every corner of every street in the world, being driven to school in a Hummer, bling bling being an intergral part of any and every uniform they aspire to wear and where meaninful conversation takes no more effort than a series of low grunts intertwined with an occasional "Yee-Harrgh" for good measure and to give a story a bit of a meaning. All the while the ammount of undigested red meat in their swollen bellies quietly magnifies.
In a couple of hours they will be stirring in their pits as they grapple with hardships such as 'bashing the bishop',getting dressed, 'cracking one off', showering, 'chopping wood' and once those chores are completed they set off in search of some much needed protein replenishment. After negotiating access to the high chair it's time for skip loads of Cheerios doused with lashings of lo-bullsh1t milk.
After being made to look publically presentable by doting Mater and Sister it's off to the local Evangelical Church of Latter Day Morons for much ado about nothing except screaming 'Praise The Lord and Hallelujah' while Beavis and Butthead muster the usual grunts this time coupled with an attempt at Hallelujah but manifesting itself as a 'Yee-Harrgh'.
The cleansing of souls, weekly brainwash, and update on the crusade behind them, 'Our Nations Finest' clamber aboard their SUV, Hummer or some other Kyoto violating, gas-guzzling, pollution belching Behemoth and set course for home, with a stop off for the obligatory leg stretch, caffeine intake and top-up of red meat where much gruntting and communal 'Yee-harrghs' are exchanged.
Fully fuelled and waddling with gay abandon, B&B test the suspension of their 4x4 'to da max' on the short drive home by actually sitting inside the beast as it coughs and beltches for all of its worth for the long 300 yard drive home to Trailer-Trashville, on the edge of La-La City limits. Once they've squeezed each other through the front (only) door, we witness the first tantrum of the day as they clock the closing credits of Teletubbies. In a red mist, Our Superheros' reach for their legally owned, licensed and registered M16's and menace the TV set. After receiving no joy they set about chancing their arm at mortal combat with the truth in the real world as they prepare to do battle with 'The Intanett' and discuss tactics on dismissing reliable 'factz n figguz' with their 'if all else fails' insurance policy of "...if it hadnt been for us the...blah..blah...blah...",. Mentally prepared,retarded and scarred they'll switch on their computer and read what I've written here.
"INCOMING!"
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I think these guys were in England helping out..
http://www.91stbombgroup.com/91stcasualtylist.html
A total of 350,000 airmen served with the Eighth Air Force in England, and to this number, 26,000 were killed, or 7.42 percent. Compared to the percentages of other military branches – U.S. Marines 3.29%, U.S. Army 2.25%, and U.S. Navy 0.41%. - the Air Corps sustained the heaviest losses. More airman with the Eighth Air Force lost their lives than the entire Marine Corps, whose enrollment included 250,000 more people. Strictly measuring the mortality rate for the 210,000 air crewmen the casualty figure soars to 12.38% and in addition, 21,000 from the Eighth Air Force wound up in prison of war camps. Of those who flew the original twenty-five mission bomber tour in 1942-1943, just 35% survived, the twenty-five to thirty mission requirements of 1944 saw 66% completed, and by 1945, 81% of the combatants flew the full thirty-five engagements
YOUR WELCOME!!!
http://www.91stbombgroup.com/91stcasualtylist.html
A total of 350,000 airmen served with the Eighth Air Force in England, and to this number, 26,000 were killed, or 7.42 percent. Compared to the percentages of other military branches – U.S. Marines 3.29%, U.S. Army 2.25%, and U.S. Navy 0.41%. - the Air Corps sustained the heaviest losses. More airman with the Eighth Air Force lost their lives than the entire Marine Corps, whose enrollment included 250,000 more people. Strictly measuring the mortality rate for the 210,000 air crewmen the casualty figure soars to 12.38% and in addition, 21,000 from the Eighth Air Force wound up in prison of war camps. Of those who flew the original twenty-five mission bomber tour in 1942-1943, just 35% survived, the twenty-five to thirty mission requirements of 1944 saw 66% completed, and by 1945, 81% of the combatants flew the full thirty-five engagements
YOUR WELCOME!!!
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BahrainLad Thanks. I'll buy you a Tetleys when I'm next in the Brit Club.
Tinpis - yup.
Sidman
The brave men of the 8th Air Force were all hero's to a man but they didn't start to arrive until late Spring 1942 which was 2 years after the start of the Battle of Britain and 18 months after it finished. No doubt Hollywood will try to re-write this bit of history too when it realises it actually played no part in this particular skirmish. You should watch 'The Longest Day' and catch one of John wayne's scenes. He puts it across quite directly.
The 8th Air force along with the might of the U.S. war machine helped free Europe but it didn't help Britain in her darkest hour. That was down a combination of factors. Tactics, strategies, technology and the most important ingredient... the pilots and groundcrews of the RAF whatever their nationality or colour, the factory workers who worked around the clock whilst being blitzed to turn out the aircraft, spares and munitions needed for our survival... in other words the citizens of the United Kingdom of Great Britain, The Commonwealth and the remenants of the various nations forces overrun in Nazi occupied Europe. The Second World War started on September 3rd 1939, America entered December 7th 1941. You do the maths.
And you are very welcome to that,mate.
I was trying to stay away from Yank-bashing but sometimes you just have to respond, you know.
Anyway, back to the thread, I notice the Iranians responded to the threat of US attack in an article on BBC World and said that not only would they retaliate but they would also expedite their Nuclear desires. I couldn't believe it. They've admitted their intentions which will save the CIA billions in trying to ascertain the truth. I just wonder what they'll have left to fight back with after the USAF and USN have flattened everything.
Tinpis - yup.
Sidman
The brave men of the 8th Air Force were all hero's to a man but they didn't start to arrive until late Spring 1942 which was 2 years after the start of the Battle of Britain and 18 months after it finished. No doubt Hollywood will try to re-write this bit of history too when it realises it actually played no part in this particular skirmish. You should watch 'The Longest Day' and catch one of John wayne's scenes. He puts it across quite directly.
The 8th Air force along with the might of the U.S. war machine helped free Europe but it didn't help Britain in her darkest hour. That was down a combination of factors. Tactics, strategies, technology and the most important ingredient... the pilots and groundcrews of the RAF whatever their nationality or colour, the factory workers who worked around the clock whilst being blitzed to turn out the aircraft, spares and munitions needed for our survival... in other words the citizens of the United Kingdom of Great Britain, The Commonwealth and the remenants of the various nations forces overrun in Nazi occupied Europe. The Second World War started on September 3rd 1939, America entered December 7th 1941. You do the maths.
And you are very welcome to that,mate.
I was trying to stay away from Yank-bashing but sometimes you just have to respond, you know.
Anyway, back to the thread, I notice the Iranians responded to the threat of US attack in an article on BBC World and said that not only would they retaliate but they would also expedite their Nuclear desires. I couldn't believe it. They've admitted their intentions which will save the CIA billions in trying to ascertain the truth. I just wonder what they'll have left to fight back with after the USAF and USN have flattened everything.
Last edited by Pontious; 7th Feb 2005 at 22:29.
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Let's come back to the actual times...
Hi Guys,
Coming back to the subject of interest of this topic, what some people said to be a paranoic idea a few days ago in the first posts... it's unluckily becoming a widespread subject in BBC and CNN....
That's why I have to suppose that the idea of attacking Iran is very much alive inside the US government...
Condolezza Rice and the word IRAN was in the front page of many English Newspapers, when I was in London 2 days back...
A precition attack as the one i heard of from US Sources, on Iranian sites, might turn up into a big response from iranian forces.
Did you realise guys where are the main american bases located in the gulf area???
JUST EXACTLY WHERE MANY AIRLINES OF THE REGION ARE......
I think, if this idea continue growing, and the attack becomes inminent, you'll hace to think twice on coming here, and the ones that are here, to flee aomewhere for sometime...
Though, I hope it doesnt happen....
Cheers,
Coming back to the subject of interest of this topic, what some people said to be a paranoic idea a few days ago in the first posts... it's unluckily becoming a widespread subject in BBC and CNN....
That's why I have to suppose that the idea of attacking Iran is very much alive inside the US government...
Condolezza Rice and the word IRAN was in the front page of many English Newspapers, when I was in London 2 days back...
A precition attack as the one i heard of from US Sources, on Iranian sites, might turn up into a big response from iranian forces.
Did you realise guys where are the main american bases located in the gulf area???
JUST EXACTLY WHERE MANY AIRLINES OF THE REGION ARE......
I think, if this idea continue growing, and the attack becomes inminent, you'll hace to think twice on coming here, and the ones that are here, to flee aomewhere for sometime...
Though, I hope it doesnt happen....
Cheers,
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Listening to CNN tonight it appears this has taken one more step towards reality.
If diplomacy fails then it will effect us all in the area.
Its pretty much up to Europe to do the talks and make this disappear.
If this fails then it goes to the UN.
I only hope diplomacy prevails here, we dont ever want these fanatics to have these weapons.
I am sure if they had them before now they would have used them.
Its time for the those in Europe to get busy.
Bashing the Americans wont help anything.
We are all in this together.
I would rather lose my job here than see these people with Nukes.
If diplomacy fails then it will effect us all in the area.
Its pretty much up to Europe to do the talks and make this disappear.
If this fails then it goes to the UN.
I only hope diplomacy prevails here, we dont ever want these fanatics to have these weapons.
I am sure if they had them before now they would have used them.
Its time for the those in Europe to get busy.
Bashing the Americans wont help anything.
We are all in this together.
I would rather lose my job here than see these people with Nukes.
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I would rather lose my job here than see these people with Nukes.
I've dated one of "those" people, plus visited numerous parts of their country........
Now please explain whats makes them different from Pakistan and Is....... (oops censored...)
Mutt,
I've dated one of "those" people, plus visited numerous parts of their country........
Now please explain whats makes them different from Pakistan and Is....... (oops censored...)
Mutt,
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Mutt
The problem isn't with the Iranian people, it's with their almost "Fundamentalist" Government and their desire to wipe out Israel. I can't understand Iran's determination for conflict if it isn't religion based, as many muslims claim, especially as Iranians aren't Arabs and they are mainly Shia wereas the Arabs are predominantly Sunni. The acts of terror committed against the Iraqi Shia communities by the Sunni shows the animosity between the two sects.
Their rhetoric, posturing and menacing almost threatening propaganda may be the way they are used to getting results in domestic politics but it won't stand up on the world stage. In a recent TV airing in Iran, they displayed their latest SSM's. Written on the nosecones of the (Nuclear/Biological/Chemical capable) missiles was a message which, when translated from Farsi, read "Death to Israel". Not once, ever, in the 40-odd years of the Cold War at the annual May-Day parades in Red Square did the Soviets put anything so provocative on their missiles that targetted Western Europe.
The European states negotiating with Iran won't put up with or appease those threats, neither will the U.S. and what do you think the Israel will do if they feel threatened with Nuclear anihlation? They will turn every suspected target into a pile of radioactive dust.
We are all too familiar with the U.S.'s policy t'wards threats, whether direct or perceived. The Israeli's however are a different species altogether. They flattened Osirak without warning the Iraqis, they reduced the PLO HQ in Tunis to rubble without consulting anybody, they snatched dozens of their own from the hands of murderous terrorists and a dictator in Entebbe. All these events had one thing in common- they all constitued a threat to Israeli citizens, whether European or Arab, whether Jew, Muslim or Christian,whether at home or abroad. Israel won't tolerate those kinds of threats. She, unlike the U.S., won't issue threats. She'll just strike. The U.S. is accountable to everyone. Israel is accountable to no-one.
The Mid-East doesn't need this kind of 'Loaded Gun' being brandished at the negotiating table. Personally I hope there is a diplomatic solution but I don't have a problem with a pre-emptive strike or series of surgical strikes just as long as they neutralise the threat totally and it's by the US OR Israel, not both. That only fuels the fire of mis-trust from the very people who's trust we are trying to gain.
A Nuclear armed Iran or any other fundamentalist regime for that matter is unthinkable and cannot be tolerated. I am neither Pro-Israeli nor Anti Israeli, just an ex-pat and I am deeply worried because I live in the Gulf area, downwind of any fallout, whether it be radioactive or political but I'd feel safer knowing these sites had been wiped off the face of the earth.
The problem isn't with the Iranian people, it's with their almost "Fundamentalist" Government and their desire to wipe out Israel. I can't understand Iran's determination for conflict if it isn't religion based, as many muslims claim, especially as Iranians aren't Arabs and they are mainly Shia wereas the Arabs are predominantly Sunni. The acts of terror committed against the Iraqi Shia communities by the Sunni shows the animosity between the two sects.
Their rhetoric, posturing and menacing almost threatening propaganda may be the way they are used to getting results in domestic politics but it won't stand up on the world stage. In a recent TV airing in Iran, they displayed their latest SSM's. Written on the nosecones of the (Nuclear/Biological/Chemical capable) missiles was a message which, when translated from Farsi, read "Death to Israel". Not once, ever, in the 40-odd years of the Cold War at the annual May-Day parades in Red Square did the Soviets put anything so provocative on their missiles that targetted Western Europe.
The European states negotiating with Iran won't put up with or appease those threats, neither will the U.S. and what do you think the Israel will do if they feel threatened with Nuclear anihlation? They will turn every suspected target into a pile of radioactive dust.
We are all too familiar with the U.S.'s policy t'wards threats, whether direct or perceived. The Israeli's however are a different species altogether. They flattened Osirak without warning the Iraqis, they reduced the PLO HQ in Tunis to rubble without consulting anybody, they snatched dozens of their own from the hands of murderous terrorists and a dictator in Entebbe. All these events had one thing in common- they all constitued a threat to Israeli citizens, whether European or Arab, whether Jew, Muslim or Christian,whether at home or abroad. Israel won't tolerate those kinds of threats. She, unlike the U.S., won't issue threats. She'll just strike. The U.S. is accountable to everyone. Israel is accountable to no-one.
The Mid-East doesn't need this kind of 'Loaded Gun' being brandished at the negotiating table. Personally I hope there is a diplomatic solution but I don't have a problem with a pre-emptive strike or series of surgical strikes just as long as they neutralise the threat totally and it's by the US OR Israel, not both. That only fuels the fire of mis-trust from the very people who's trust we are trying to gain.
A Nuclear armed Iran or any other fundamentalist regime for that matter is unthinkable and cannot be tolerated. I am neither Pro-Israeli nor Anti Israeli, just an ex-pat and I am deeply worried because I live in the Gulf area, downwind of any fallout, whether it be radioactive or political but I'd feel safer knowing these sites had been wiped off the face of the earth.
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Its not the Iranians themselves Mutt.
I have seen the Iranian F/A also in the training center, they are nice, very nice.
The problem is the fanatics with their sword rattling.
They are really unstable.
history has shown this.
They have to be shut down.
Even Europe agrees with this.
Maybe Iraq was questionable but this is not.
We have all seen what fanatics have done to the world.
How many innocent lives lost, how many jobs lost, time to take a stand here.
Its better to have to go home without a job than let these fanatics try and rule the world with the threats they impose.
I have seen the Iranian F/A also in the training center, they are nice, very nice.
The problem is the fanatics with their sword rattling.
They are really unstable.
history has shown this.
They have to be shut down.
Even Europe agrees with this.
Maybe Iraq was questionable but this is not.
We have all seen what fanatics have done to the world.
How many innocent lives lost, how many jobs lost, time to take a stand here.
Its better to have to go home without a job than let these fanatics try and rule the world with the threats they impose.
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The problem is the fanatics with their sword rattling.
They are really unstable.
history has shown this.
They have to be shut down.
Even Europe agrees with this.
Maybe Iraq was questionable but this is not.
We have all seen what fanatics have done to the world.
How many innocent lives lost, how many jobs lost, time to take a stand here.
Its better to have to go home without a job than let these fanatics try and rule the world with the threats they impose.
Just read the above...Earl, thought better of you! Sounds like just one more Anti-American rant.
Sam
They are really unstable.
history has shown this.
They have to be shut down.
Even Europe agrees with this.
Maybe Iraq was questionable but this is not.
We have all seen what fanatics have done to the world.
How many innocent lives lost, how many jobs lost, time to take a stand here.
Its better to have to go home without a job than let these fanatics try and rule the world with the threats they impose.
Just read the above...Earl, thought better of you! Sounds like just one more Anti-American rant.
Sam
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Taleban, Osama, Saddam etc
Yeah right. Now it is Iran that is the threath. Before some goatherders out of the cave flew modern airliners into buildings. For the first time in history steel skyscrapers collapsed from fire including a third building WTC3 which was not even hit by planes. But the goatherders were even smarter than that: They managed to stand down the WHOLE AMERICAN AIRDEFENSE for HOURS before crashing another airliner in Americas most guarded Pentagon (in a spectacular 270° 500MPH 2 feet AGL acrobatics), all done by a lousy pilot trained in Cessna 172's.
The US Intelligence was able to identify all the terroists 2 days later, imposing Patriot Act1 on the US population, invaded Afghanistan, imprisoned suspects in the new concentration camp Guantanamo Bay indefinitley. Furthermore Iraq was attacked with the big lie of WMD, which were never found. Torture, war, vote fraud, deception and complete disregard for international law.
NEXT TARGET: IRAN
"Personally I hope there is a diplomatic solution but I don\'t have a problem with a pre-emptive strike or series of surgical strikes just as long as they neutralise the threat totally and it\'s by the US OR Israel, not both. "
We have seen this "surgical strikes", now 1400+ of our troops dead, over 8000 wounded, 100\'000 iraqis dead!
The US Intelligence was able to identify all the terroists 2 days later, imposing Patriot Act1 on the US population, invaded Afghanistan, imprisoned suspects in the new concentration camp Guantanamo Bay indefinitley. Furthermore Iraq was attacked with the big lie of WMD, which were never found. Torture, war, vote fraud, deception and complete disregard for international law.
NEXT TARGET: IRAN
"Personally I hope there is a diplomatic solution but I don\'t have a problem with a pre-emptive strike or series of surgical strikes just as long as they neutralise the threat totally and it\'s by the US OR Israel, not both. "
We have seen this "surgical strikes", now 1400+ of our troops dead, over 8000 wounded, 100\'000 iraqis dead!