How does it work at Saudi Arabian?
Thread Starter
Joined: Sep 2003
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From: Europe
How does it work at Saudi Arabian?
I have noted that there are a number of aviation "entities" in Saudi Arabia - clearly all employing Saudi Arabians only... There's Saudi Arabian Airlines (747s, 777s, MD-11s, MD-90s), Saudi Royal Flight (mixture of widebody aircraft) and then what looks like Saudi Arabian Airlines corporate jets - Gulfstream IVs/Vs, Falcon 900s, BBJs, etc.
Just curious, but how do these choose their pilots - are newhires hired into the airline or the corporate jet operation? Would the Royal Flight pilots be senior or ex-military pilots? If one wanted to fly a GV, could one apply directly for that position or would you be placed in a certain aircraft once you qualify? How would someone be able to eventually fly a 777 for Saudia (do you need to apply to the airline directly)? How does it work in terms of selecting aircraft to fly (is it all seniority and then you bid your preference - including the Saudia private jets)?
Sorry about all of the questions. A qualified (and well-connected) pilot in Saudi Arabia would have a lot of great opportunities to fly some great aircraft...
Just curious, but how do these choose their pilots - are newhires hired into the airline or the corporate jet operation? Would the Royal Flight pilots be senior or ex-military pilots? If one wanted to fly a GV, could one apply directly for that position or would you be placed in a certain aircraft once you qualify? How would someone be able to eventually fly a 777 for Saudia (do you need to apply to the airline directly)? How does it work in terms of selecting aircraft to fly (is it all seniority and then you bid your preference - including the Saudia private jets)?
Sorry about all of the questions. A qualified (and well-connected) pilot in Saudi Arabia would have a lot of great opportunities to fly some great aircraft...
Joined: Sep 1999
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From: ME
Of the 1600 pilots within Saudia approx 15% are expat, almost exclusively Captains. They fly all the line aircraft, the Special Flight Aircraft but not the Royal Aircraft.
Expat pilots are recruited for a particular aircraft and at this stage there is very little fleet progression for them.
Saudi Nationals require a high school diploma, they used to be sent to Florida to obtain their CPL/ME/IR with around 320 hours. Ideally they would start as FO on a MD90 or A300. Although presently there are a number of Second Officers on the MD90.
They will transition from the MD90/A300 to the larger aircraft or special flight depending on flight hours and requirements.
With approximately 5000 hours and B744/B777/MD11 experience they will upgrade to Captain on the MD90 and progress back up the fleet again.
Finally, what BBJ? They dont operate any.
Mutt.
Expat pilots are recruited for a particular aircraft and at this stage there is very little fleet progression for them.
Saudi Nationals require a high school diploma, they used to be sent to Florida to obtain their CPL/ME/IR with around 320 hours. Ideally they would start as FO on a MD90 or A300. Although presently there are a number of Second Officers on the MD90.
They will transition from the MD90/A300 to the larger aircraft or special flight depending on flight hours and requirements.
With approximately 5000 hours and B744/B777/MD11 experience they will upgrade to Captain on the MD90 and progress back up the fleet again.
Finally, what BBJ? They dont operate any.
Mutt.
Thread Starter
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From: Europe
Thanks Mutt. I think I was referring to the Saudi Royal Flight - I think they operate some BBJs if I am not mistaken. I have seen pictures of "Saudi Arabian" GVs (same paint scheme) and I was wondering about how those particular pilots were selected for the corporate wing (GIV/GV, F900 or BBJ) vs. the MD90/MD11/747/777 pilots flying for the airline. Are these pilots offered a choice or are they assigned to their aircraft (obviously the airline pilots progress through the various fleets with experience)?
Just curious - I think it would be a great opportunity for a Saudi to fly many different aircraft...
Just curious - I think it would be a great opportunity for a Saudi to fly many different aircraft...
Joined: Sep 1999
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From: ME
The Royal Saudi Air Force operate two BBJ's, the Ministry of Finance have another two operated by NAS. There are none within the Saudia fleet, either royal or special.
Transition to the G2/3/4 F900 fleets is from the MD90 for FO's, or at any stage for Captains upon request of the crew. Older expat Captains have also moved to the corporate side to extend their flying careers.
But this fleet is boring, just think of the career path of the present senior Captains, DC3, Convair, DC9, F27, B737, B707, L1011, B747 Classic then to the newer MD11/747/777.
Mutt.
Transition to the G2/3/4 F900 fleets is from the MD90 for FO's, or at any stage for Captains upon request of the crew. Older expat Captains have also moved to the corporate side to extend their flying careers.
But this fleet is boring, just think of the career path of the present senior Captains, DC3, Convair, DC9, F27, B737, B707, L1011, B747 Classic then to the newer MD11/747/777.
Mutt.
Thread Starter
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From: Europe
Thanks Mutt. It would be nice to move from the airline to the corporate side and back - fly the MD90, then the GV for some route variety, and ultimately the 777. That would be a great opportunity for some lucky pilots.
Cheers
Cheers
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From: Kot Addu
mutt, I myself saw a the photo of a BBJ in full SV colours at !!!!!!!!!!!!!! last year, it seems to have disappeared from there, but this showed up in search, looks like a new scheme for the Royal flight, will the entire fleet be getting it? about time they distingusihed themselves from the airline.
http://www.!!!!!!!!!!!!!!/open.file/562116/M/
http://www.!!!!!!!!!!!!!!/open.file/562116/M/
Joined: Sep 1999
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From: ME
PIA747 - AFAIK, still have expat classes scheduled and an urgent need to have the crews.
Newscaster- That is one of two BBJ's owned by the Ministry of Finance and operated by National Air Service. Absolutely nothing to do with the airline.
Mutt.
Newscaster- That is one of two BBJ's owned by the Ministry of Finance and operated by National Air Service. Absolutely nothing to do with the airline.
Mutt.
Joined: Sep 1999
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From: ME
Never saw any BBJ in SVA colours, MF1 and MF2 went directly to NAS. I have to admit that i havent seen HZ-101 or 102 which are operated by the Air Force, I dont know what scheme they have but they certainly wouldnt be the first aircraft in the airlines scheme that werent operated by the airline. A certain B727 and some C130s come to mind...... 
Edited to add http://www.!!!!!!!!!!!!!!/open.file/434241/M HZ101/2 have white schemes.
Mutt.
Edited to add http://www.!!!!!!!!!!!!!!/open.file/434241/M HZ101/2 have white schemes.
Mutt.
Joined: Sep 2003
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From: Kot Addu
Here it is, http://www.!!!!!!!!!!!!!!/open.file/422309/M/ by the way how many 732's left in their fleet? any chances of you getting some decent photos of the aircraft to post? none on the net in the new colours.
Last edited by newscaster; 20th October 2004 at 18:31.
Joined: Sep 1999
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From: ME
OH that is sweet... and has now become my new PC wallpaper.
Basically, Saudia Special Flight Services were supposed to operate MF1 and MF2 on behalf of the Ministry of Finance. That never happened, they were taken from the Mod Shop by NAS.
I guess that they were built in the SVA colours but changed in the Mod Shop in Basle.
As for the B737-200, there are two left, primarily to operate to the airport of Bisha which has a low pavement strength.
Pictures???????? That will be a fun task!
Mutt.
Basically, Saudia Special Flight Services were supposed to operate MF1 and MF2 on behalf of the Ministry of Finance. That never happened, they were taken from the Mod Shop by NAS.
I guess that they were built in the SVA colours but changed in the Mod Shop in Basle.
As for the B737-200, there are two left, primarily to operate to the airport of Bisha which has a low pavement strength.
Pictures???????? That will be a fun task!
Mutt.
Joined: Apr 2002
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From: UK, London
Thats weird. I thought Saudia did accept expats?? 
are you absolutely sure on that?
Also, how about the type rating, do you have to pay for it? Or is it a requirement that you are type rated on applying?
and what do you mean by 'wasta'? thanks
are you absolutely sure on that?Also, how about the type rating, do you have to pay for it? Or is it a requirement that you are type rated on applying?
and what do you mean by 'wasta'? thanks
Joined: Sep 1999
Posts: 5,552
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From: ME
Pilot16, Expat Captains, YES. Expat First Officers NO. “Wasta” is a local term for contacts.
PIA747, All roads lead to Bilal. Thought that I had sent you a PM with a contact email address? Otherwise suggest that you submit it through the HR department in London. They certainly need people as they have once again discovered that getting rid of expats just isn’t gonna work!
411A. Most of them parked in Taif waiting for the Guvnor to get out of jail. Two -500s still operated by Royal.
Mutt.
PIA747, All roads lead to Bilal. Thought that I had sent you a PM with a contact email address? Otherwise suggest that you submit it through the HR department in London. They certainly need people as they have once again discovered that getting rid of expats just isn’t gonna work!
411A. Most of them parked in Taif waiting for the Guvnor to get out of jail.
Two -500s still operated by Royal.Mutt.