Emirates DECs
Join Date: Oct 2003
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Please define a "Proven track record" I have 12000 hours but having spent the last decade working for my ever shrinking national carrier I never got a command on a jet (that mythical and oh so hard to fly beast) Yet I have operated on long haul wide body ops all over the globe. I haven't been at Emirates long, but I have been there a darn sight longer than any DEC.
Is this a proven track record? My last company didn't sack me, I didn't crash any aeroplanes & I manged to get through the EK selection procedure (unlike many DEC applicants)
You see I am confused, once you become a captain are you so much better? Is it a case of once a captain then always a captain?
Whilst the management make their decisions whether we like it or not, it does gall me somewhat to listen to tripe from colleagues basically disparaging every EK F/O
As for 411A, are you familiar with the word "Tosser"in the USA, I suggest you obtain a British published dictionary.
Is this a proven track record? My last company didn't sack me, I didn't crash any aeroplanes & I manged to get through the EK selection procedure (unlike many DEC applicants)
You see I am confused, once you become a captain are you so much better? Is it a case of once a captain then always a captain?
Whilst the management make their decisions whether we like it or not, it does gall me somewhat to listen to tripe from colleagues basically disparaging every EK F/O
As for 411A, are you familiar with the word "Tosser"in the USA, I suggest you obtain a British published dictionary.
Join Date: Dec 2003
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411 I am one of those "Stupid" Captains who is willing to give up his command and go to Emirates as an FO. The reasons behind people's decisions vary. I am flying for one of the UKs charter companies on the bus and I want a more stable roster, a better quality of life. I am confident enough that when the time comes I will get the Command with Emirates. Airmanship, decision making, character is a requirement for both pilot seats, and not just the left seat. It is not a title bestowed by the aviation gods to a few chosen ones. Captaincy is about humility, service, compasion and experience. The guys I saw at the Emirates interview fit these criteria, so the next step is Company needs. I am not management, and I cannot speak elloquently about the needs or reasons behind Emirates decision for DECs but sometimes it might not be as evident as we think. I am taking a decision to go to Emirates, it is not a risk, it is not a move out of necessity, it is by choice. The seats upfront are a for those of us who are privileged enough to be doing this job. It is for some of us a job, for others an occupation, for others a profession, and for some it is a passion. I can understand if you are trying to pass on wisdom, or even experience, but it does not fit the profile of a true aviator to be arrogant, spitefull and rude towards those who are flying in the right seat. I believe that someone with your experience should have the wisdom and understanding to be honest, yet encouraging, careful yet with hope.
Skyslave
Skyslave
Join Date: Dec 2002
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I am not sure if the second previous response was directed to me,but I'll answer <bfg>.
I DON'T know how other airlines determine who is and who is not ready for upgrade. The first 34 years of my aviation career were in a union/seniority system. I was so lucky to be able to have my first opportunity after 21 years to upgrade <bfg> and I took it and even other chance to move up with all of the Boeings. That was the right choice for me each time in restrospect.
In a non-union-non-seniority based system, someone in management and the training center makes the decision. Time and hours have some bearing, but certainly not all that goes into the decision.
Exactly what EK does is outside of my area of knowledge and responsibility. Tht is why pprune is here for those in the know to tell us.
I personally would not take a job on a "maybe" and a whim unless I had some idea of the future and had in writing what my future would entail. Time has a way of taking its toll. That's why each of us has to make our own choices and one is not necessarily good for everybody.
I DON'T know how other airlines determine who is and who is not ready for upgrade. The first 34 years of my aviation career were in a union/seniority system. I was so lucky to be able to have my first opportunity after 21 years to upgrade <bfg> and I took it and even other chance to move up with all of the Boeings. That was the right choice for me each time in restrospect.
In a non-union-non-seniority based system, someone in management and the training center makes the decision. Time and hours have some bearing, but certainly not all that goes into the decision.
Exactly what EK does is outside of my area of knowledge and responsibility. Tht is why pprune is here for those in the know to tell us.
I personally would not take a job on a "maybe" and a whim unless I had some idea of the future and had in writing what my future would entail. Time has a way of taking its toll. That's why each of us has to make our own choices and one is not necessarily good for everybody.
Join Date: Apr 2001
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Just watching this with interest.
Can someone answer this; does rostering take into account the Capt and FO match? Is, say, a 500hr-cadet-FO paired with a particular Capt, or are there designated Capts to take these 'new' FOs ('training Capts')? Just wondering if that has anything to do with raising the upgrade requirements?
Can someone answer this; does rostering take into account the Capt and FO match? Is, say, a 500hr-cadet-FO paired with a particular Capt, or are there designated Capts to take these 'new' FOs ('training Capts')? Just wondering if that has anything to do with raising the upgrade requirements?
Join Date: Nov 2003
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Skyslave,
You have a decision to make, go to EK as an F/O, maybe upgrade in 3 years time, then get your captain first year salary.
OR stay in your current airline as a captain, until you get the capt. hours for a DEC (presuming you dont have the hours right now). And then go to EK as a DEC, and make the equivalent of a 5th year capt... (Less the seniority, for what it's worth)....
Its your decision....
You have a decision to make, go to EK as an F/O, maybe upgrade in 3 years time, then get your captain first year salary.
OR stay in your current airline as a captain, until you get the capt. hours for a DEC (presuming you dont have the hours right now). And then go to EK as a DEC, and make the equivalent of a 5th year capt... (Less the seniority, for what it's worth)....
Its your decision....
Join Date: Dec 2003
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Max AB thank you.
Menard you are correct, I do not have the requirements for DEC, but rather than waiting two years to get the requirements I can go now that the opportunity came up. I am sure that there will be opportunities within Emirates to upgrade in the future. Some will say that it is not wise, I say maybe yes, maybe not, I surely joined to be a pilot not just for the money, but for the fun. In the long term the difference of a few thousand pounds is a few holidays, or a few toys.
Menard you are correct, I do not have the requirements for DEC, but rather than waiting two years to get the requirements I can go now that the opportunity came up. I am sure that there will be opportunities within Emirates to upgrade in the future. Some will say that it is not wise, I say maybe yes, maybe not, I surely joined to be a pilot not just for the money, but for the fun. In the long term the difference of a few thousand pounds is a few holidays, or a few toys.
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Skyslave,
Having a life and a good time is important, always keep it this way....If you are moving in DXB for those reasons, you will get what you are looking for. Be patient with everything....
Having a life and a good time is important, always keep it this way....If you are moving in DXB for those reasons, you will get what you are looking for. Be patient with everything....
Join Date: Mar 2000
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If those who are Commanders now, and are intending to join EK as First Officers, clearly do not meet the specs for a DE Captain position.
So, they will have to wait for the upgrade, if it comes.
Have noticed a few at other companies, who joined with the same ideas, watch as DE guys were hired, and paid accordingly, while our intrepid hero sat in the right seat...gear up and shut up.
Up to them of course, but suspect they will post here in about a years time that all is not rosey in the desert...indeed just as many have on this forum.
Some are very naive when it comes to overseas employment, especially when the company changes direction, sometimes with little notice.
So, they will have to wait for the upgrade, if it comes.
Have noticed a few at other companies, who joined with the same ideas, watch as DE guys were hired, and paid accordingly, while our intrepid hero sat in the right seat...gear up and shut up.
Up to them of course, but suspect they will post here in about a years time that all is not rosey in the desert...indeed just as many have on this forum.
Some are very naive when it comes to overseas employment, especially when the company changes direction, sometimes with little notice.
Join Date: Aug 1998
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Have Pity
2630 posts and they all say exactly the same thing!
For God's sake man, either reach down deep within and dredge up a modicum of some self-respect or give your poor, bruised nose a break. How else are you typing whilst sporting a strait-jacket?
Do you not realize people are trying to have a conversation here?
It's like being at a dinner party where a baby at the end of the table keeps bringing up pureed peas. Distracting at best, emetic at worst.
Do you have no one who can take you in hand?
For God's sake man, either reach down deep within and dredge up a modicum of some self-respect or give your poor, bruised nose a break. How else are you typing whilst sporting a strait-jacket?
Do you not realize people are trying to have a conversation here?
It's like being at a dinner party where a baby at the end of the table keeps bringing up pureed peas. Distracting at best, emetic at worst.
Do you have no one who can take you in hand?
Join Date: Sep 2000
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This could get even more interesting.
(How do I change the font size real small as to whisper) Hot this week is we're trying to find 10 more aircraft. We're running at nearly 100% capacity so somebody is doing something right and our jobs look as secure as any other in the industry.
(How do I change the font size real small as to whisper) Hot this week is we're trying to find 10 more aircraft. We're running at nearly 100% capacity so somebody is doing something right and our jobs look as secure as any other in the industry.
Join Date: Sep 2002
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Very funny!
Laughed at that one. But like it or not 411A does represent another opinion that based on the evidence available just may be supported by EK management. Makes you think doesn't it?
Hope nobody drowned in the downpour today!
UAE
Hope nobody drowned in the downpour today!
UAE
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Some are very naive when it comes to overseas employment, especially when the company changes direction, sometimes with little notice
Guys can sit and wonder "what if" till the cows come home or make a decision on the facts as they stand right now. Nothing is certain when you join any company, all you know for sure are the conditions on the day you sign up. If you accept this then you should be prepared for any changes, not still sitting at home waiting to see if prophet 411 is right or wrong.
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411A is a old friend, cum windup merchant, who's windup on this thread has really high-jacked it. I've given him a few days in the cooler before we unleash him on you again.
4HP
4HP
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To take a little of heat off ol' 411, can those of you in the region put a PRIMER on about why EK and the surroundings appear to be doing so well with the economic environment? I've spent most of my time in Europe, Asia, and North America, so I am asking for anyone to take a shot at why aviation and the economy seems to be doing so well around the UAE.
Now I realize them hills have oil. Does this industry spread and make the economy very strong down to people who want to take vacations or is most of your travel high yield business trips to places east and west? There's no Opera house, Eiffel Tower, ggod pubs, Golden Gate Bridge, Grand Canyon,so I don't think that is why most people wouldn't jump on a plane to fly there especially from certain regions of the world.
The weather stays way too hot in summer and is reasonable most of the year. At least no snow to shovel.
Does any one have any population figures?
What does one do for a few days in Abu Dhabi?
Open to your ideas and even 411 can reply!!!!!
Now I realize them hills have oil. Does this industry spread and make the economy very strong down to people who want to take vacations or is most of your travel high yield business trips to places east and west? There's no Opera house, Eiffel Tower, ggod pubs, Golden Gate Bridge, Grand Canyon,so I don't think that is why most people wouldn't jump on a plane to fly there especially from certain regions of the world.
The weather stays way too hot in summer and is reasonable most of the year. At least no snow to shovel.
Does any one have any population figures?
What does one do for a few days in Abu Dhabi?
Open to your ideas and even 411 can reply!!!!!
Join Date: Jul 2000
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JM - always plenty to do in Dubai, probably in Abu Dhabi as well.
Skyslave, there certainly will be lots of upgrades in the future, both long and short term. If you're after lifestyle then you'll love it here, that's the reason I came to EK. Also you get to fly new (mostly) aeroplanes, the route structure is very varied and about to become more so.
I'm personally having a great time, although I do have to say that a few things within EK could do with changing, but as we keep hearing "it's under review"
Skyslave, there certainly will be lots of upgrades in the future, both long and short term. If you're after lifestyle then you'll love it here, that's the reason I came to EK. Also you get to fly new (mostly) aeroplanes, the route structure is very varied and about to become more so.
I'm personally having a great time, although I do have to say that a few things within EK could do with changing, but as we keep hearing "it's under review"
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At many airlines things are"under review". It would be better sometimes if they would have a "drop dead" date and if it doesn't happen by this day...it won't happen. Days go pretty fast sometimes with no changes. Sorta like waiting at the other end of looking for a job!!!! They often go reaaaalllly slow!
On Abu Dhabi, I've only been there once and was alone. It was 45C and I know that was not the norm. But I've spent time in a shopping center and looked around town in what appears to be safe. I suppose I'll walk towards downtown on the next trip. I heard there was an old town and obviously I can see the "new town" from a few miles. I like to walk and look for something to do. But is it safe if you don't wear the local "garb". I don't own a Mercedes, I don't have a camel, I don't smoke cigarettes,I don't have a local cell phone, I know no one, and wouldn't know where to walk into a pub IF there was one.
There are rental car agencies and I heard that a drive is certainly possible from AUH to DXB,but what would one do when they got there? Are there any good web sites with suggestions.
The average world citizen (yanks or not) think that area of the world is like driving a Bradley tank across miles of sand with the potential of being shot, blown up, and tortured. Every day you see blasts across CNN and the BBC about Iraq. I realize AUH and DXB are not Iraq. But I am just trying to open up some dialogue so that I don't have to sit and watch TV over and over. You can only do so many revisions!!! And you can only eat breakfast once or less.
On Abu Dhabi, I've only been there once and was alone. It was 45C and I know that was not the norm. But I've spent time in a shopping center and looked around town in what appears to be safe. I suppose I'll walk towards downtown on the next trip. I heard there was an old town and obviously I can see the "new town" from a few miles. I like to walk and look for something to do. But is it safe if you don't wear the local "garb". I don't own a Mercedes, I don't have a camel, I don't smoke cigarettes,I don't have a local cell phone, I know no one, and wouldn't know where to walk into a pub IF there was one.
There are rental car agencies and I heard that a drive is certainly possible from AUH to DXB,but what would one do when they got there? Are there any good web sites with suggestions.
The average world citizen (yanks or not) think that area of the world is like driving a Bradley tank across miles of sand with the potential of being shot, blown up, and tortured. Every day you see blasts across CNN and the BBC about Iraq. I realize AUH and DXB are not Iraq. But I am just trying to open up some dialogue so that I don't have to sit and watch TV over and over. You can only do so many revisions!!! And you can only eat breakfast once or less.
Join Date: Apr 2001
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It's arguably better to live in AUH, because if you get bored, you can always go to DXB!
Jim, you are safer here than anywhere I can think of in the world. Crime is so low it is almost non-existent. This is evidenced by the rows of Mercs lined up in front of the shops during summer, with the keys in and engine running (to keep the aircon going). Where else could you do that? I can only recall seeing a fight in a pub once. I have only heard of someone being burgled once, and they were in Oman. Single females can walk thru the centre of town at any hour. Get the picture?
Before we go too far off topic (and I go thru all the negatives), maybe you should start a separate thread.
ps things to do (quickly). Centrally located to lots of interesting places, so travel. water sports, outdoor sports (half the year), indoor sports (other half), desert driving/camping, diving, clubs/hobbies (motor sports, Rc, ultralights, yachts, kite surfing etc). Just about anything, if you look. Ski fields of Lebanon, Romania etc not far away. Like anything, it's up to you. You can sit around and do nothing (plenty do), or do as many things as you want. There is even a small ice-hockey league.
Jim, you are safer here than anywhere I can think of in the world. Crime is so low it is almost non-existent. This is evidenced by the rows of Mercs lined up in front of the shops during summer, with the keys in and engine running (to keep the aircon going). Where else could you do that? I can only recall seeing a fight in a pub once. I have only heard of someone being burgled once, and they were in Oman. Single females can walk thru the centre of town at any hour. Get the picture?
Before we go too far off topic (and I go thru all the negatives), maybe you should start a separate thread.
ps things to do (quickly). Centrally located to lots of interesting places, so travel. water sports, outdoor sports (half the year), indoor sports (other half), desert driving/camping, diving, clubs/hobbies (motor sports, Rc, ultralights, yachts, kite surfing etc). Just about anything, if you look. Ski fields of Lebanon, Romania etc not far away. Like anything, it's up to you. You can sit around and do nothing (plenty do), or do as many things as you want. There is even a small ice-hockey league.
Join Date: Dec 2003
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JM,
Thought about a sarcastic reply and thought better of it. AUH is not a bad place, more "local" than DXB but still not so bad. You will be safe anywhere you walk at any time of night wearing whatever you want. There are plenty of bars down there and most are OK from what I've heard. DXB would be the better place to go to though. AUH has great sailing and lots of very nice islands off it which the expats go to for camping and BBQ etc.
Back on topic again and I may be very ignorant in what I am about to say but it wouldn't be the 1st time and wont be the last:
It appears the DEC are coming in to fill the extra aircraft brought in on short notice. It would have been great had training been up to speed but wasn't. This seems to be the crux of the problem. Hopefull ythis will resolve itself and when the rest of the orders start to come in the number of DEC ill slow and those moving right to left will increase. I hope it works out for you all, it's a great country to be in and all in all I find EK not such a bad place to be.
Desert Nomad
Thought about a sarcastic reply and thought better of it. AUH is not a bad place, more "local" than DXB but still not so bad. You will be safe anywhere you walk at any time of night wearing whatever you want. There are plenty of bars down there and most are OK from what I've heard. DXB would be the better place to go to though. AUH has great sailing and lots of very nice islands off it which the expats go to for camping and BBQ etc.
Back on topic again and I may be very ignorant in what I am about to say but it wouldn't be the 1st time and wont be the last:
It appears the DEC are coming in to fill the extra aircraft brought in on short notice. It would have been great had training been up to speed but wasn't. This seems to be the crux of the problem. Hopefull ythis will resolve itself and when the rest of the orders start to come in the number of DEC ill slow and those moving right to left will increase. I hope it works out for you all, it's a great country to be in and all in all I find EK not such a bad place to be.
Desert Nomad