Emirates Accelerated Commands
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Emirates Accelerated Commands
Thinking of a job out in the sand. I would not meet the accelerated command criteria, however to get a rough idea of time to command does anybody know.
1. Number of Pilots already bypassed in seniority by accelerated guys.
2. Total number of current pilots
3. The actual schedule of delivery of new aircraft. Emirates web site states 125 aircraft by 2012, but if you add the new orders to existing 330's and 777's it makes a number nearer 150 by 2012. Are thy going to retire some 330's
I think a lot of people would like to work out what the actual prospects are !
1. Number of Pilots already bypassed in seniority by accelerated guys.
2. Total number of current pilots
3. The actual schedule of delivery of new aircraft. Emirates web site states 125 aircraft by 2012, but if you add the new orders to existing 330's and 777's it makes a number nearer 150 by 2012. Are thy going to retire some 330's
I think a lot of people would like to work out what the actual prospects are !
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1/ Hard to say...but if guys fulfill the 6000hrs/ 3 years at Emirates, they have priority over the accelerated guys. The accelerated program is only used if nobody is found with the 6000hrs/3 years requirement.
2/ Around 860, with new courses starting every couple of weeks, and hardly people leaving.
3/most of the A330's will go...don't ask me when the first one is supposed to go...I don't know and they probably don't know it neither! Seems the smallest aircraft will probably be the 777-200, with maybe some A330's left for the Gulf routes.
CU on the beach
2/ Around 860, with new courses starting every couple of weeks, and hardly people leaving.
3/most of the A330's will go...don't ask me when the first one is supposed to go...I don't know and they probably don't know it neither! Seems the smallest aircraft will probably be the 777-200, with maybe some A330's left for the Gulf routes.
CU on the beach
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Just changed over night - funny old thing - went to bed thinking it was all lovely then found out that today if I want accelerated command I have to have over 8000hrs , 2000hrs command time in a/c over 55t etc etc. Things happen here and you have no say in it at all - upgrades / accomodation / pay etc etc!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Some mucho pissed off ex Captains here, they came because EK said they needed some experienced pilots here as the numbers grow only to find the goal posts have moved and they have been stitched up!!!
what to do??????
what to do??????
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Latest Rumour.
Keeping 15-17 A330's. When I came for interview in Oct2002 I was told they would be phased out except for a couple to replace the A310.
When I joined the number had increased to 6, when I finished training it had risen again to 12. I have been on line now for a month and just had a coffee with a mate who's in the know and the latest is 15-17. Apparently they proved their worth during SARS,are ideal for supplementary and additional flights to existing destinations and development of "Long-thin" routes that wouldn't support a trip.7. As long as EK are expanding they'll need the A330. They are also ideal for the mainstay Short-haul trade around the Gulf, as well as new routes such as BNE.
Keeping 15-17 A330's. When I came for interview in Oct2002 I was told they would be phased out except for a couple to replace the A310.
When I joined the number had increased to 6, when I finished training it had risen again to 12. I have been on line now for a month and just had a coffee with a mate who's in the know and the latest is 15-17. Apparently they proved their worth during SARS,are ideal for supplementary and additional flights to existing destinations and development of "Long-thin" routes that wouldn't support a trip.7. As long as EK are expanding they'll need the A330. They are also ideal for the mainstay Short-haul trade around the Gulf, as well as new routes such as BNE.
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Yes that all sounds wonderful Pontious but what has that got to do with accelerated commands or to that end command upgrade? Yes EK get lots of lovely a/c which they haven't got enough cabin crew ( apparently 750 short at the moment will rise to 1500) and also not enough Capts or to that end FOs. You sound new and in the honeymoon period and I'm glad you are enjoying yourself from the sound of it however watch this space, you won't be so happy when they will not upgrade you because they can't be bothered to upgrade a FO !!!
As an aside with all these new a/c:
1. Where will all these new Capts come from?
2. Will they have to pass the upgrade interview before being considered?
3. Is it true that lots of 330 FOs are taking their names off the 340 list as they don't want to fly with Direct Entry Capts?
Any thoughts?
As an aside with all these new a/c:
1. Where will all these new Capts come from?
2. Will they have to pass the upgrade interview before being considered?
3. Is it true that lots of 330 FOs are taking their names off the 340 list as they don't want to fly with Direct Entry Capts?
Any thoughts?
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Hmmm, suspect if management hears any of this (alledged)..."I won't fly with any direct entry Captain" it will only harden their resolve, and perhaps enforce their opinion that said First Officers are troublemakers and certainly not suitable for upgrade.
Not a good scenario.
Not a good scenario.
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After looking at this thread, I went to look at Emirates website. yesterday and today. It appears to have changed because of the direct entry Captain situation.
It is not very clear and it is buried in the text that they are encouraging direct entry Captains saying"the needs have changed". But it doesn't say what equipment (does it mean all?) and if a type rating is absolutely required. It makes no reference to currency. Maybe I missed something.
If I did the math right, the pay is quite low. There are some benefits that other places don't pay and maybe there is lots of overtime.
Also it appears that they have a program that they will "encourage" people to stay if they pass the first few days. Perhaps some people get a little "jittery" about it and wonder if they were doing the right thing.
Does any place eles in the world have such a program or just at Emirates?
What does the "encouragement program" entail? Getting you into a room and providing a case of beer to talk you into it?
All kidding aside,how does Emirates appeal to some of you that might be there?
Other places in the world are hiring pilots and maybe that is what has contributed to what could be viewed as a shortage.
My own Company is still buying airplanes in a prosperous region and they need pilots also.
It is not very clear and it is buried in the text that they are encouraging direct entry Captains saying"the needs have changed". But it doesn't say what equipment (does it mean all?) and if a type rating is absolutely required. It makes no reference to currency. Maybe I missed something.
If I did the math right, the pay is quite low. There are some benefits that other places don't pay and maybe there is lots of overtime.
Also it appears that they have a program that they will "encourage" people to stay if they pass the first few days. Perhaps some people get a little "jittery" about it and wonder if they were doing the right thing.
Does any place eles in the world have such a program or just at Emirates?
What does the "encouragement program" entail? Getting you into a room and providing a case of beer to talk you into it?
All kidding aside,how does Emirates appeal to some of you that might be there?
Other places in the world are hiring pilots and maybe that is what has contributed to what could be viewed as a shortage.
My own Company is still buying airplanes in a prosperous region and they need pilots also.
Unless it's changed, l wouldn't be too worried about trying to get here if your nationality is as your profile suggests.
Not too many pilots from the middle of North America, say <1%.
But that may change with a dire need for DEC.
Good luck if that is what you want.
halas
Not too many pilots from the middle of North America, say <1%.
But that may change with a dire need for DEC.
Good luck if that is what you want.
halas
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This 'dire' need for DECs could have been avoided, the number of which should have and still could be reduced.
The fact is that accelerated or not, the rules for a command could be turned in EK favour by having guys ready for the LHS by the time they are regarded as suitable rather than waiting for the required figures only then to start the process... This would show some faith and confidence in the guys they interviewed, accepted, train, check & would be the cheaper option vs DECs.
My worry is that we wait for the minimum 24/36 month period only to attend the board of enquirey, I mean the command interview, to be told we are not suitable or need more time for whatever reason they make up and DECs are considered necessary again. Even if considered suitable, there may be a delay in the system whilst the DECs complete thier training so the command time could slip to as long as 30/40 months or even longer...
The training depts. preparation has been shown to be pp this time around but are there any moves to improve the situation in the future or are DECs going to be a way of life...if so we all need to know.
The resources they need are already here if they would only look under their noses..
The fact is that accelerated or not, the rules for a command could be turned in EK favour by having guys ready for the LHS by the time they are regarded as suitable rather than waiting for the required figures only then to start the process... This would show some faith and confidence in the guys they interviewed, accepted, train, check & would be the cheaper option vs DECs.
My worry is that we wait for the minimum 24/36 month period only to attend the board of enquirey, I mean the command interview, to be told we are not suitable or need more time for whatever reason they make up and DECs are considered necessary again. Even if considered suitable, there may be a delay in the system whilst the DECs complete thier training so the command time could slip to as long as 30/40 months or even longer...
The training depts. preparation has been shown to be pp this time around but are there any moves to improve the situation in the future or are DECs going to be a way of life...if so we all need to know.
The resources they need are already here if they would only look under their noses..
Last edited by mozzie; 24th Sep 2003 at 18:26.
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For Halas,I am happy where I am,but this DEC was a sudden change. I am more interested in knowing what is involved and what the sudden change.
Yes, I'm from America and have been to all but one continent and want to add that one soon.Some places in the world are nicer than others<bg> and some are clearly safer.
I am just curious on your thoughts or those of the other readers,but if one had XXX hours on airplanes they flew and was type rated on airplanes they flew, would one have a harder time because he was black or white or from an English (prdominant language) speaking country versus not?
Yes, I'm from America and have been to all but one continent and want to add that one soon.Some places in the world are nicer than others<bg> and some are clearly safer.
I am just curious on your thoughts or those of the other readers,but if one had XXX hours on airplanes they flew and was type rated on airplanes they flew, would one have a harder time because he was black or white or from an English (prdominant language) speaking country versus not?
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Hi All,
The DE CPT requirements seem to have changed AGAIN....
On www.emiratesgroupcareers.com the requirements are now:
MINIMUM REQUIREMENTS
Requirements for Position of Direct Entry Captain
A minimum of 10,000 hours total flying time
A minimum of 3,000 hours in command of multi-crew, multi-engine jet aircraft in excess of 55,000 KGS MTOW
Preference for short listing will be given to A340/A330 rated pilots and those with wide body experience. A background in training would also be advantageous.
ICAO ATPL
Applicants must be less than 56 years on joining
Experience commensurate with age
In the previous 2 company requirement MEMO's (last one less than 24hrs ago!), widebody or type rated experience was required....now they seem to have changed it AGAIN...to ">55T command". Means B737, A320 a.s.o. guys can apply now as well!!! This will make open the door to a hell more canidates!!!
Don't know what I have to think about all of this...EK is a very dynamic company, but changing requirements AGAIN in less than 24hrs....Don't know, but what will change after this, salaries, accomodation allowances.....???? Make up your mind guys!
It used to be a nice company to work for since I joined (+1 year), but it all seems to degrade very, very rapidly!!!
Guys wanting to join now....please think twice before coming over! I probably wouldn't do it again with all I have seen in the last couple of weeks.
To make it clear, I personally understand that there is a requirement for some DE CPT's, but the way requirements come down, from high requirements (wide-body, type-rated...etc...), to a lot lower requirements, bothers me...and probably not only me!
CU,
If I will still be here!!?? ... I'll probably start to look around for something else!
The DE CPT requirements seem to have changed AGAIN....
On www.emiratesgroupcareers.com the requirements are now:
MINIMUM REQUIREMENTS
Requirements for Position of Direct Entry Captain
A minimum of 10,000 hours total flying time
A minimum of 3,000 hours in command of multi-crew, multi-engine jet aircraft in excess of 55,000 KGS MTOW
Preference for short listing will be given to A340/A330 rated pilots and those with wide body experience. A background in training would also be advantageous.
ICAO ATPL
Applicants must be less than 56 years on joining
Experience commensurate with age
In the previous 2 company requirement MEMO's (last one less than 24hrs ago!), widebody or type rated experience was required....now they seem to have changed it AGAIN...to ">55T command". Means B737, A320 a.s.o. guys can apply now as well!!! This will make open the door to a hell more canidates!!!
Don't know what I have to think about all of this...EK is a very dynamic company, but changing requirements AGAIN in less than 24hrs....Don't know, but what will change after this, salaries, accomodation allowances.....???? Make up your mind guys!
It used to be a nice company to work for since I joined (+1 year), but it all seems to degrade very, very rapidly!!!
Guys wanting to join now....please think twice before coming over! I probably wouldn't do it again with all I have seen in the last couple of weeks.
To make it clear, I personally understand that there is a requirement for some DE CPT's, but the way requirements come down, from high requirements (wide-body, type-rated...etc...), to a lot lower requirements, bothers me...and probably not only me!
CU,
If I will still be here!!?? ... I'll probably start to look around for something else!
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MR Jim Morhead,
I read that you own a prosperous airline and may need pilots soon...
Bingo! I am here!
JAA ATPL(A) and FAA 2600TT.
Keep me in mind I am a great and hard working French,...not so many around...
Tailwinds,
Flyer75
I read that you own a prosperous airline and may need pilots soon...
Bingo! I am here!
JAA ATPL(A) and FAA 2600TT.
Keep me in mind I am a great and hard working French,...not so many around...
Tailwinds,
Flyer75
mozzie
Mate, l am a bit more more positive in my outlook.
l am of the (perhaps nieve) opinion that the upgrades will continue at the same rate, whilst the DEC will supplement the left hand seat requirements for the short term.
However since reading what l have just written, it would appear to be that the training department will have a fair swag of it's capability wrapped up with training the DEC.
hmmmmmmmm........
It will be an interesting year ahead for all l am sure.
Will the KCT be asked to stay on?
Will the training department expand as the company wants?
Will there be enough DEC applicants?
Will the bond requirements for new and recently new intakes change?
Will some leave in disgust?
Don't know myself.
halas
Mate, l am a bit more more positive in my outlook.
l am of the (perhaps nieve) opinion that the upgrades will continue at the same rate, whilst the DEC will supplement the left hand seat requirements for the short term.
However since reading what l have just written, it would appear to be that the training department will have a fair swag of it's capability wrapped up with training the DEC.
hmmmmmmmm........It will be an interesting year ahead for all l am sure.
Will the KCT be asked to stay on?
Will the training department expand as the company wants?
Will there be enough DEC applicants?
Will the bond requirements for new and recently new intakes change?
Will some leave in disgust?
Don't know myself.
halas
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halas...
Points taken, I think you are nearer the mark than me...having seen similar things happen in other airlines I am a little more pessimistic...hope I'm wrong.
Definately an interesting year ahead though...
Definately an interesting year ahead though...
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New Rules Again
SUBJECT
Emirates Recruitment and promotion criteria
Given the continued rapid expansion of Emirates Airline, it was deemed necessary to conduct a review of the Company’s minimum requirements for recruitment and upgrade. This review has now been completed and as a result the following criteria will be used with immediate effect.
1 INITIAL RECRUITMENT CRITERIA
The minimum entry requirements for First Officers has been revised as follows:
- 4,000 total time
- 2,000 hard jet hours
- ATPL
- Age under 48
2 COMMAND ELIGABILITY CRITERIA
The company has reviewed the minimum criteria for normal command and this has been set as follows
2.1 Normal Command
The company’s policy for upgrade to Captain is as follows:
- 36 months in EK.
- 6,000 total time.
- 4,000 hard jet hours.
- Satisfactory command assessment.
- 12 months on type.
Please note that with the exception of the final bullet, the criteria is unchanged from the previous policy. However as a direct result of the addition of the requirement to complete 12 months on type, the practice of Transition Upgrades, will cease with immediate effect.
2.2 Accelerated Command
The company’s policy for Accelerated Command has changed significantly and with immediate effect First Officers will only be considered for accelerated command provided that they meet the following criteria:
- 2,000 command (>55t) immediately prior to joining EK.
- 8,000 total time on joining EK.
- 4,000 Hard Jet hours.
- Satisfactory command assessment.
- 18 months in EK.
- Min 1,000 hours on type in EK.
- 12 months on type.
3. DIRECT ENTRY COMMANDS
Given the planned expansion of the Emirates fleet a considerable amount of resource planning has been conducted. This work has demonstrated that without reducing the minimum criteria for command, the company will have a shortfall of command.
The company has discussed altering the minimum requirements, but to preserve quality & operational standards, this will not be done. Therefore in order to satisfy the company’s immediate & future growth plans the decision has been made that Emirates will provide an entry point for Direct Entry Captains. Consequentially, we will shortly commence advertising for Direct Entry Captains to join EK.
Emirates is committed to balancing Direct Entry Captains requirements against First Officers who meet command criteria so that the latter group are not unduly disadvantaged.
The minimum requirements for Direct Entry Captains will be:
- 10,000 total time on joining EK.
- 3,000 command, on type or wide-body, immediately prior to joining EK.
- 4,000 Hard Jet hours.
- Preference to type rated & instructors.
- Age under 56, at commencement date.
We recognise that there will be a number of existing First Officers within Emirates who meet the above criteria.
Therefore if you had 10,000 hours and 3,000 command (wide body or type), when you joined Emirates then we will consider your suitability for and immediate command.
If you believe that you meet the Direct Entry Criteria and would like to be considered then please contact your Fleet Manager as soon as possible.
Thank you for your usual co-operation and support during this time of unprecedented growth in our company.
Emirates Recruitment and promotion criteria
Given the continued rapid expansion of Emirates Airline, it was deemed necessary to conduct a review of the Company’s minimum requirements for recruitment and upgrade. This review has now been completed and as a result the following criteria will be used with immediate effect.
1 INITIAL RECRUITMENT CRITERIA
The minimum entry requirements for First Officers has been revised as follows:
- 4,000 total time
- 2,000 hard jet hours
- ATPL
- Age under 48
2 COMMAND ELIGABILITY CRITERIA
The company has reviewed the minimum criteria for normal command and this has been set as follows
2.1 Normal Command
The company’s policy for upgrade to Captain is as follows:
- 36 months in EK.
- 6,000 total time.
- 4,000 hard jet hours.
- Satisfactory command assessment.
- 12 months on type.
Please note that with the exception of the final bullet, the criteria is unchanged from the previous policy. However as a direct result of the addition of the requirement to complete 12 months on type, the practice of Transition Upgrades, will cease with immediate effect.
2.2 Accelerated Command
The company’s policy for Accelerated Command has changed significantly and with immediate effect First Officers will only be considered for accelerated command provided that they meet the following criteria:
- 2,000 command (>55t) immediately prior to joining EK.
- 8,000 total time on joining EK.
- 4,000 Hard Jet hours.
- Satisfactory command assessment.
- 18 months in EK.
- Min 1,000 hours on type in EK.
- 12 months on type.
3. DIRECT ENTRY COMMANDS
Given the planned expansion of the Emirates fleet a considerable amount of resource planning has been conducted. This work has demonstrated that without reducing the minimum criteria for command, the company will have a shortfall of command.
The company has discussed altering the minimum requirements, but to preserve quality & operational standards, this will not be done. Therefore in order to satisfy the company’s immediate & future growth plans the decision has been made that Emirates will provide an entry point for Direct Entry Captains. Consequentially, we will shortly commence advertising for Direct Entry Captains to join EK.
Emirates is committed to balancing Direct Entry Captains requirements against First Officers who meet command criteria so that the latter group are not unduly disadvantaged.
The minimum requirements for Direct Entry Captains will be:
- 10,000 total time on joining EK.
- 3,000 command, on type or wide-body, immediately prior to joining EK.
- 4,000 Hard Jet hours.
- Preference to type rated & instructors.
- Age under 56, at commencement date.
We recognise that there will be a number of existing First Officers within Emirates who meet the above criteria.
Therefore if you had 10,000 hours and 3,000 command (wide body or type), when you joined Emirates then we will consider your suitability for and immediate command.
If you believe that you meet the Direct Entry Criteria and would like to be considered then please contact your Fleet Manager as soon as possible.
Thank you for your usual co-operation and support during this time of unprecedented growth in our company.
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Do Emirates expect to get all the pilots they require given their high hours requirements? I appreciate that they want high experience, and who could fault them, but they say they have just increased their minimum hours. To me this seems a strange move if they are so short? Guess I'll have a little while yet before I can apply! 
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A recent accelerated command was apparently given to someone who claimed having had a command in his previous company when this was not true. Only previous command hours were on Tornado's. Don't airlines carry out an intensive background check before making such important decisions?
Last edited by Red Hackle; 2nd Oct 2003 at 11:46.
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max AB, I'm not so worried about the Tornado command time so much as the fact that he obviously misrepresented his previous experience and the airline did not do any checking on it. It makes one wonder how much other underhand dealing is taking place out there, especially when most of the chaps have done their time honestly.