Combined Hearing and audiogram thread
 

I sat their in depth medical on friday, to get told I had bad hearing damamge, and also becausie I had a cold, I could resit the audiogram someitme in future, however if I delay much longer will definitley not get a placement on next Flight attendant training course.

I've just turned 40 , and the doc told me I was in fine physical shape otherwise, 20/20 eyesight, good lungs, BP flexibility etc etc..........

At times he showed my my hearing appears to dip down to 65 which is unacceptable? I"m confused as I've been working as a flight attendant for the best part of 12 years, mainly overseas.

My question is- is there anything i can do to influence the audiogram, I fear,however feel its foolproof. Would I have any form of redress, that I could use to influece the outcome, seeing as I am looking at a refusal of employment after getting so far in the process. My day to day hearings fine, its just the high frequency tone is damaged-this is so annoying!

Anyone elso out there experience this, and what have they done? :ugh:

Thanks in advance

At the risk of stating the obvious, did they have a look and made sure there were not oodles of wax in your ears?

Beyond that go and see your GP so they can have a look. If it was due to a cold (not uncommon) then you may well be OK on a repeat test.

If not it may be worthwhile to go and see an ENT surgeon to ensure there is nothing wrong further up the line. A disqualifying hearing loss for a youngster is unusual and warrants a closer look.

Not sure what you mean by a redress of the situation?

Would have thought that they would struggle not to take you on if the hearing could be rectified with a hearing aid etc. They can probably justify that you would a reasonable amount of hearing to do the job as flight cabins are a fairly noisy environment.

They don't just want you to be able to hear what the punters and the tannoy says, they also have a duty to protect you from your hearing loss getting worse.

Two sides to the coin, as ever.

Best of luck.

FD

High Frequency hearing loss
 

:p just to reply to your last post. Basically I have, and this isnt the first time, failed an audiogram as my one on one hearing is great, but the softer sounds, high frequency is damamged.

Several year ago i got a job with aer lingus, and failed their audiogram. I went to see a top ENT freind of my father's, who wrote out a convincing letter to them, saying that were they worried that flying with them could further damage my hearing?? That sealed it for me, and I subsequently got the job, thats what I meant by a form of redress.

I went to an independt audiometrist the following week, and this time the results were much better and this seems to have pleased the QF doc-who knows tho, still havent been offered the job yet. Basically the second specialits audiogram did show I had high frequency damage, but no where near bad enought to need a hearing aid, and no-where near as bad as the QF one! So i stay away from Rock concerts, loud music etc these days, and hope for the best! :\

I am almost completly deaf (97%) right ear - everything else OK

Sat in their Audio box and just hit the button around when I thought I should hear something in my right ear

Was all I could do to keep myself from laughing my head off. The Audio Ladies face....

One solution:
 

Greetings!
Im no doctor, but I got a tiny bit of personal experience.. My advice is that you try out the easy parts in the preavious posts before you do any of the more extreme things. Clearing out excessive wax and such is a good idea. Then simply:

Plug your ears in the morning of your next test-day. Silence and reduction in sounds around you will sharpen your hearing a lot! I used this trick in my military days due to all the noise and sounds around me..and it worked! Just remember to remove the plugs before you put on the audiometric headphones. :)

Best of Luck,
TJB

I don´t know man but I had a cold and a week after I flew with Ryanair. Man it was the moast painfull experience in my life. I couldn´t hear and it fellt like there was a knife in my ear or something. I am a strong person and I never cry but belive me, I wanted to cry there.

A feew weeks have past now and I want to go up for training but I still can´t pop my ear so I will have to whait.

I wouldn´t reccomend the flight if you arn´t sure. It could give you big problems. So go to a doctor even if there isn´t much time left.

:ok:

I'm not in a very different situation. About over a month ago, almost two, I had a terrible cold and cough. Since then and till now I've had a blocked ear. Doctor thought it was sinusitis but the x-ray proved it wrong. I'm right now just using sprays and a tablet to try and make the mucus stuck on, possibly, the Eustachian tube liquid and cough it out but it doesn't seem to help. It does also cause a "ringing noise" in my ears.

The worst that's going to happen is that you will burst an ear drum.......unlikely but a problem if it occurs.

The best case scenario......ride of a life time.


Hmmmm, I know what I'd do:}

Qantas audiogram exclusion criteria!
 

Hello there! I just read your post - I know you posted it a while back but I could have wept!

Please get in touch - I've got to know how this worked out. I am in the same boat! :uhoh:

I've got an interview with Qantas but I also have very mild bilateral hearing loss from a bloody cold I had in 2004! I can't hear in the high end of the upper frequency region.

It has no effect on me day to day and I totally forget I even have a problem. I don't wear a hearing aid and the one I tried just annoyed me!

Did you get the job in the end? If you didn't, do you have any idea what Qantas' policy is on audiogram exclusion criteria? :confused:

Many thanks

[email protected]

History of Hearing Problems...Need Help?
 

This is how it is:

I have had a history of hearing problems as a child and has been given many sets of grommets for my ears which has fallen out as i got older, i have 100% hearing in my left ear and 40% hearing in my right ear, when i blow my nose i get this dizziness but this is all caused from my bad ear (my left) im pretty certain that i will need another grommet in my ear as this is a 'balance' issue,

Im scared that the doctor will link this to vertigo for the time being until it gets sorted, and i know that vertigo doesnt go down well with a PPL medical,

If i can OVERCOME this hearing problem and prove that my hearing is good again after being fixed, will my history of hearing stop me from passing the hearing standards for the CLASS 2 medical (i only want to be a ppl, nothing more).

Just that i want to train for my PPL and cant fly solo / gain a PPL license without this medical certificate, i am in top notch health with everything exept this bad ear, which i know the ENT will sort out.

Or is my flying dream all over?

Does a medical history overide current health?

Thankyou

Alex

Do you have an ENT Surgeon that you feel comfortable with?

I would recommend the ENT Dept. at Essex County Hospital Lexden Rd - or - The Royal Throat, Nose + Ear hospital in King's Cross.

If you're happy with the current ENT, that's fine - but the 2 hospitals above will give you an accurate diagnosis and have a good reputation.

You guys need to put the word 'eustachian' into the search bar - there are many threads. If you don't have a history of tube problems and are struggling to clear an ear after an infection, ask your Dr for a 'mucolytic' - try a search on that term as well - there are a few to try, with minimal side effects.

Protecting your hearing.
 

I was wondering if any of the pilots on here actively protect your hearing in loud environments, like concerts, festivals, airshows, etc? If your ears go bad, I would imagine attaining a class one medical would be harder or maybe even impossible?
I brought some musicians earplugs but they are too big and hurt my ears, I was thinking of getting custom ones molded to the shape of my ear.

Good advice
 

Even when I was younger (old now :{ ) I used to wear earplugs at concerts, bands, etc.

Main reason then was that it used to sh1t me when I'd leave a concert and not being able to hear anything until I woke up the next day. I found that the only effect was that the music wasn't painful. (i.e. you could hear the same; just without the pain :ok:)

I found that the yellow foam ones were best; and if you cut them in half, no-one else knew you were wearing them (made it hard to get them out, though)

Many of my friends (same concerts) now have hearing difficulties, where my hearing is still very good.

DIVOSH!

I've got some Speedo brand swimming ear-plugs which work well. They need to be moistioned before inserting though (no pun intended ;)) They go in quite deep and have a little "handle" to pull them out with.

Other than that pick up some of the foam ones (Bunnings perhaps) that you squash first then insert in your ear. They usually have a daggy plastic cord on them but you can just cut that off.

Be weary of wearing flouro coloured plugs to a concert at night as the UV/Blacklight will make them glow and you'll look like a tool.

I was once told this about NZ. Not a single Pilot in NZ has ever had their medical pulled based solely on hearing loss. Heck I've meet one pilot who could barely hear someone speak to him across the room but had no probs in the aircraft (just turn up the headset volume :ok:)

I say protect your hearing....not to keep your medical. In old age, you don't want your wife and relatives shouting at you OR, worse, talking about you--in front of you. Very depressing thought.

GF

A DC-3 skipper with MMA lost his, he said, hanging his head out of his Mustang during run ups in his RAAF Korean days. F/O didn't need his headset. He heard everything through the captain's.

I agree with Galaxy Flyer - do it for your ears, not your license (although if it were to stop you losing the license, that's an added benefit). The number of people who aren't that old, but have hearing loss because they didn't bother to protect their ears is kind of sad in a way. But you don't have to wear earmuffs everywhere of course.

My noise deafness is bad enough that on initial Class 1 I got a letter from Dr Ruth? at the dept advising me to consider a career outside aviation. Skip forward a quarter of a century and a phone call to a Dr in Canberra got the response "well you can hear me can't you?".

As mentioned modern radios/intercoms have a knob(s) which fixes the problem

On the positive side noise deafness affects mainly the frequencies of:
- angry adult female
- screaming babies/kids
- wife talking about an expensive thing that (from the pictures) goes in the ear and uses batteries

I know of a lady who whilst working for a Darwin operator was issued with the fluro earplugs for in the cockpit use.
Apparently they taste terrible and even though they look like lollies, shouldn't be eaten. :E Hey ya Lou. you still out there?.

Wasn't the same one who flew a 210 to an 'outport' location with a tow bar still attached to the nose wheel! taxied in after an uneventful landing without realizing the mistake until a line of junior pilots stood staring in disbelief at the said 210 :ok:

Well you go tell that to my mate's brother who had permanent hearing loss and tinnitus at the ripe old age of 21 from listening to music too loud!!!

Going to the odd concert isn't going to damage your hearing. It's the stuff you are exposed to every day that is the problem. Loud music on headphones and high noise work places are bigger problems.

Tinnitus is not well understood and one of the theories is that it can be brought about by stress.

The moral of the story is : no matter whether it is your job, the money, the nagging family etc, it doesn't pay to get stressed.

damo1089, I well and truely understand where you're coming from. As the one responsible for loud music at concerts (as a sound engineer) I take hearing protection pretty seriously. You're not making a bad move by getting moulded plugs.

Mine were stolen last month (who'd want to wear someone elses earplugs anyway) so I've moved to generic ER20's, which you can get in a 'baby blue' size which may solve your problem. -
I thought my initial Class 1 would be difficult because I seem to leave a bit of hearing at every gig I work at (if I'm not wearing plugs), but even with tinnitusthe audiologist said I had no concernable hearing loss. I'm way more paranoid about protection now because of my class 1 though.

Do a search on the internet, I bought some from Sweden, especially for noise, made of 'clear' rubber so they are not very noticeable. -These ones came in a pouch to help keep them clean when not in use.
If you want to go el cheapo, look through the range of swimmers ear plugs, go to a variety of chemists and sports shops, there are some very light pink coloured/skin colour ones that are extremely hard to see, mainly as they fit a small way in the ear canal and sit flush on the outside rather than a sticky out bit to pull for removal. They are prone to falling out if you don't get them in correctly.
After being to a nightclub/pub etc without ear plugs, and your ears are ringing, its too late, that is a sign damage has been done.

Bashing around in twin pistons I used to wear ear plugs under my headset. I also know of guys who have flown loud turbo props that wear ear plugs under their headset. The reason for it is that we are exposed to a loud environment on a regular basis

I dont know about wearing ear plugs to a concert though. I wouldn't think that you could go often enough to cause any serious damage.

I think the "Boys harden up" line should stand.

Wouldn't the earplugs dull the sound coming out of the headset as well?

Similarly at concerts wouldn't it stop the sound from getting in?

While were at it what brand/type does everyone recommend?

Sorry but going to a concert WILL damage your hearing. Every little bit does damage. Later on in life you'll very much regret not looking after your ears when you were young - I do, and I'm barely over 30. You should even consider wearing ear plugs under your headset in any aircraft, twin or single, you might be surprised how much more comfortable it is, particularly if you are listening to light music through your headset.

Since it seems the mods aren't going to approve my first post, I'll try again.

I work as a sound engineer, which is funding my CPL. Hearing protection has always been important because of my job, and often I do leave a little bit of my hearing at every gig I do.

That said, even with constant tinnitis, I passed my class 1 hearing tests fine, with no "concernable hearing loss".

Musician earplugs are the way to go, with decent ones providing even frequency response from 50hz-16khz. Moulded ones are fantastic and very comfortable, but some :mad: stole mine last month (who'd wear someone elses earplugs anyway) so I'm back to generic ones. The model I'd recommend are called ER20's from Etymotic . There's a few Australian dealers, give ER20 a search on eBay and you'll find the generic ones, or ask your audiologist at your next medical renewal and they'll take a mould and get some made for ya.

Protect your hearing no matter what

Noise Induced Hearing Loss (NIHL) is insiduous, gradual and incurable.

Once it's gone that's it, it's gone.

In the UK, the Control of Noise at Work Regulations 2005 were introduced in early 2006 and significantly reduced maximum exposure levels, which apply not only to employees (flight, cabin and ground crew) but also to visitors (passengers) to company premises (aircraft).

Any exposure exceeding these limits could result in NIHL.

However, on short - medium haul flights it should not be a significant issue as time weighted averages would probably not exceed maximum exposure levels but long haul could be different, especially for the more frequent flyers, i.e. long haul flight and cabin crew.

Worth a look if you are UK based/employed:

The Control of Noise at Work Regulations 2005

Why are hearing standards so strict for Class1?
 

Why are hearing standards so strict for a class 1 medical?

Is it that ATC talk really quietly or something?

If you have a slight loss in 1 ear for example surely couldnt you just wear amplified headgear to just 'notch up' the sound abit? Why should this ground a pilot?

Cheers,

Alex

If "future A-380 captains" would stop listening to their rap music with these earphones, at a 120 dB level, from age 12 until age 18, maybe they would preserve their eardrums and be able to pass Class 1 hearing tests.
xxx
:}
Happy contrails

It's not that they are particularly strict. Anyone with normal hearing should pass with no trouble. However, as already stated, lots of people abuse their hearing with loud music, etc., and it's fairly important for pilots and controllers to have at least normal hearing.

Combined Hearing and audiogram thread
 

Gday all,

As with some of the other popular topics, we've merged a lot of the threads here for easier searching.

Cheers,

BM

Take tmpffisch's advice, if it's not already too late. S/He's working in one of the industries where hearing loss is an occupational hazard. I've known several techies in that line of work who have had to find other employment as they could no longer subjectively balance an audio mix. Not a good way to finish a career.

I have an audio test about every couple of years and my hearing is almost as sensitive as it should be for a 25 year old, with the exception that the response rolls off at about 15kHz. Hardly surprising given my age. Apart from that, my audiologist has complimented me on maintaining my hearing, adding that, sadly, a lot of 30 year olds would envy me.

I like hearing the 'dawn chorus' and the occasional passing Merlin or pair of P&Ws.

Protect your hearing and seek professional advice ASAP if you suspect any hearing loss or are getting a ringing in your ear/s. That the best advice I can give.

As 2close said "Once it's gone that's it, it's gone." That means: forever.

Le Vieux

Ear popping!
 

Hello! I can remember that I saw a toppic about a guy that had problems with popping his ears and a black hawk helicopter:} But I can´t find it anymore, maybe I am blind.

Anyhow I will just post my question here. I had the same problem during newyears when I flew with Ryanair. When we started to dive I couldn´t presurise my right ear and it fellt like a knife in my ear. Never had that paine in my life before. I went to the doctor and he gave me medication and then I returned after a month and he said that the ear looked fine. I forgot to ask him if I could fly again tough. I still can´t pop my right ear and I have a PPL flight in the PA28 on sunday. Do I dear to go? I don´t want any brooken drums since I want to become a airliner pilot.

I think everybody has this problem at some point. PPL shouldn't matter too much as you're only going up to something like 3000ft whereas the pressure in an airliner is 8000ft (though obviously I'm not a doctor so its up to you).

Strangely though I can now pop my ears my moving something in them (hear a little clicking sound) so thats nice to have if not a little odd (I can also move my ears so maybe its related to that).