Emergency(Medical) & First aid kit
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Emergency(Medical) & First aid kit
Ladies and Gentelmens ! How do you think , what things and medicaments should be (or must be) inside in First aid and Emergency kits? Maybe somebody have some examples of that kit's complectation? Or some idea?
Thanks for everybody!
My E- mail:[email protected] :
Thanks for everybody!
My E- mail:[email protected] :
for QDM
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I did a quick search and found that BA use this kit which seems extremely good and able to cater for a multitude of medical emergencies........ only problem is - it doesn't come with a Doctor or Nurse.
But, if the price is right, I COULD oblige
But, if the price is right, I COULD oblige
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Good kit. Very comprehensive.
A friend of mine had to suggest to the captain to divert a BA flight from Singapore to London into Bahrain when an elderly passenger started fitting over the Gulf. He had one fit and they thought they could carry on, but then he had another and another and so on. Expensive business for the airline.
QDM
A friend of mine had to suggest to the captain to divert a BA flight from Singapore to London into Bahrain when an elderly passenger started fitting over the Gulf. He had one fit and they thought they could carry on, but then he had another and another and so on. Expensive business for the airline.
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I just hope to God that the CAA minimum medical kit requirements have been beefed up on what was required some years back.
My father, as a Doctor, has had to deal with several medical emergencies on flights over the years. He was particularly distressed about one particular incident because it resulted in a fatality. It can't be proved, but it is likely that this was down to lack of suction equipment in the medical kit. The kit was within CAA requirements.
He made noises to all the relevant authorities at the time and was thanked for his contribution. What came of it I know not. He was lined up for a piece on GMTV. However, as they put it - 'it was too much of a hot potato'. I am sure in these days of sensationlist journalism they would make a meal out of such a matter today.
I was able to provide details of the BA kit at the time, which did carry such a device, above and beyond the CAA requirements. I am sure this is the case for other carriers too.
My father, as a Doctor, has had to deal with several medical emergencies on flights over the years. He was particularly distressed about one particular incident because it resulted in a fatality. It can't be proved, but it is likely that this was down to lack of suction equipment in the medical kit. The kit was within CAA requirements.
He made noises to all the relevant authorities at the time and was thanked for his contribution. What came of it I know not. He was lined up for a piece on GMTV. However, as they put it - 'it was too much of a hot potato'. I am sure in these days of sensationlist journalism they would make a meal out of such a matter today.
I was able to provide details of the BA kit at the time, which did carry such a device, above and beyond the CAA requirements. I am sure this is the case for other carriers too.
Lolegas, you may find that a call of "is there a doctor on board" may fall on deaf ears, as no organisation appears to offer to indemnify health professionals acting on board aircraft.
A sad fact of the times I'm afraid, but we all think of the adverts with the smarmy guy claiming "where there's blame there's a claim !!"
Our professional bodies are (unofficially) advising us to keep quiet in the event of an incident mid flight, although we may be guided by our moral fibre (I can't spell consciounsse), to act otherwise !
Sad but true.
A sad fact of the times I'm afraid, but we all think of the adverts with the smarmy guy claiming "where there's blame there's a claim !!"
Our professional bodies are (unofficially) advising us to keep quiet in the event of an incident mid flight, although we may be guided by our moral fibre (I can't spell consciounsse), to act otherwise !
Sad but true.
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As a nurse, our governing body state, within our Code Of Conduct, that:
In an emergency, in or outside the work setting, you have a professional duty to provide care.
The care provided would be judged against what could reasonably be expected from someone with your knowledge, skills and abilities when placed in those particular circumstances.
And morally, never mind professionally, surely we HAVE to provide help, sure as eggs are eggs, I certainly couldn’t sit back and keep quiet if someone needed medical assistance.
So the answer is...............call for a nurse
In an emergency, in or outside the work setting, you have a professional duty to provide care.
The care provided would be judged against what could reasonably be expected from someone with your knowledge, skills and abilities when placed in those particular circumstances.
And morally, never mind professionally, surely we HAVE to provide help, sure as eggs are eggs, I certainly couldn’t sit back and keep quiet if someone needed medical assistance.
So the answer is...............call for a nurse
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Nice to know that any potential hi-jacker need not bother to risk capture bringing his own "weapons" on board with all that he needs is in the BA kit, no doubt stored with big "find me here" sticker.
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Gingernut, as you well know that is a directive from the UKCC (can't remember at the moment what the new name is) that we have a duty to help even when off duty. It is called being stuck between a rock and a hard place. You may be damned if you do help and most certainly will be if you don't and it is dicovered that you were present at the incident. The airlines need to think hard about covering those who do give help. There is a very good In Flight Nursing course available but it is expensive (just about a month's salary when travel and accommodation is taken into account) and my employer is insisting that I do it in my own time and at my own expense. I am prepared to do it as I travel in the region of 48 - 72,000 miles a year and want to be as fully up to date as possible both for my own sake and that of anyone I may need to help. I agree with 5th, we have to help to the best of our ability.
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gingernut -
Further to your remarks I contacted the Nursing and Midwifery Council to ask the question ‘ If I was on board an aircraft and someone was taken ill, what would my role be regarding ‘Duty of Care?’
Their reply is as follows
‘There may be issues around whose soil one is on at the time but as this would be deemed to be an emergency the following should assist you.
Clause 8.5 NMC Code of professional conduct (April 2002)
8 As a registered nurse or midwife, you must act to identify and minimise the risk to patients and clients
8.5 In an emergency, in or outside the work setting, you have a professional duty to provide care. The care provided would be judged against what could reasonably be expected from someone with your knowledge, skills and abilities when placed in those particular circumstances.
Many registrants have expressed concern regarding this clause and consider that it is something new. This is not the case, the UKCC Code of professional conduct (June 1992) made the implicit statement, within the overarching tenets of the code, that:
Each registered nurse, midwife and health visitor shall act, at all times, in such a manner as to:
safeguard and promote the interests of individual patients and clients;
serve the interests of society;
justify public trust and confidence and
uphold and enhance the good standing and reputation of the professions.
The updated version, in response to many requests for clarity on the matter from registrants has made the statement explicit. What this means for you is that in a situation where a registrant perhaps comes upon an accident in the street at any time, the registrant does not have a legal duty to stop and care for the injured person. But if she/he does, she/he then takes on a legal duty to care for the person properly. In these circumstances, it is reasonable to expect her/him to care for the person to the best of her/his skill and knowledge.
Although the registrant has no legal duty to stop and give care in this example, they do have a professional duty.
The Code of Professional Conduct places a professional duty upon her/him at all times.
However, in this situation it could be reasonable to expect the nurse to do no more than comfort and support the injured person and ensure that relevantly qualified and competent professionals are called to deal properly with the situation in hand.
It is most unlikely that any registrant who can justify that they have acted in the best interest of the patient and client and within the limitations of their skills and knowledge, even if that meant that no action was taken, would be called to answer for their actions by the NMC.
Registrants are accountable not only for their actions but equally importantly for their omissions.
Whatever the registrant chose to do she/he would have to be able to justify why they took, or indeed didn't take, should they be called to answer for them.
Registrants must also be aware that personal acts undertaken outside of the workplace and off duty time can have an impact upon that registrant's ability to practice. For example all criminal convictions are reported directly by the courts to the NMC Professional Conduct Div. A decision is made from there as to whether this would have the potential for removal from the Register in that an act undertaken by a registrant is not in line with public protection and does not uphold the good standing and reputation of the professions.’’
So, as you can see, we, as nurses DO HAVE a professional responsibility at all times….and doctors don’t??
It’s a sad state of affairs if a doctor will sit there and do nothing when someone needs medical assistance because they fear litigation – I wonder what advice the MDU actually gives their members in this matter……..
I'm not talking about indemnity here - I'm talking about acting in a responsible professional manner.
The reason I joined the profession is because I care about others, as I’m sure you did – so can I ask you - Is it really ok to do nothing thereby NOT acting in the interest of the patient and NOT 'upholding the good standing and reputation' of one's profession?
Further to your remarks I contacted the Nursing and Midwifery Council to ask the question ‘ If I was on board an aircraft and someone was taken ill, what would my role be regarding ‘Duty of Care?’
Their reply is as follows
‘There may be issues around whose soil one is on at the time but as this would be deemed to be an emergency the following should assist you.
Clause 8.5 NMC Code of professional conduct (April 2002)
8 As a registered nurse or midwife, you must act to identify and minimise the risk to patients and clients
8.5 In an emergency, in or outside the work setting, you have a professional duty to provide care. The care provided would be judged against what could reasonably be expected from someone with your knowledge, skills and abilities when placed in those particular circumstances.
Many registrants have expressed concern regarding this clause and consider that it is something new. This is not the case, the UKCC Code of professional conduct (June 1992) made the implicit statement, within the overarching tenets of the code, that:
Each registered nurse, midwife and health visitor shall act, at all times, in such a manner as to:
safeguard and promote the interests of individual patients and clients;
serve the interests of society;
justify public trust and confidence and
uphold and enhance the good standing and reputation of the professions.
The updated version, in response to many requests for clarity on the matter from registrants has made the statement explicit. What this means for you is that in a situation where a registrant perhaps comes upon an accident in the street at any time, the registrant does not have a legal duty to stop and care for the injured person. But if she/he does, she/he then takes on a legal duty to care for the person properly. In these circumstances, it is reasonable to expect her/him to care for the person to the best of her/his skill and knowledge.
Although the registrant has no legal duty to stop and give care in this example, they do have a professional duty.
The Code of Professional Conduct places a professional duty upon her/him at all times.
However, in this situation it could be reasonable to expect the nurse to do no more than comfort and support the injured person and ensure that relevantly qualified and competent professionals are called to deal properly with the situation in hand.
It is most unlikely that any registrant who can justify that they have acted in the best interest of the patient and client and within the limitations of their skills and knowledge, even if that meant that no action was taken, would be called to answer for their actions by the NMC.
Registrants are accountable not only for their actions but equally importantly for their omissions.
Whatever the registrant chose to do she/he would have to be able to justify why they took, or indeed didn't take, should they be called to answer for them.
Registrants must also be aware that personal acts undertaken outside of the workplace and off duty time can have an impact upon that registrant's ability to practice. For example all criminal convictions are reported directly by the courts to the NMC Professional Conduct Div. A decision is made from there as to whether this would have the potential for removal from the Register in that an act undertaken by a registrant is not in line with public protection and does not uphold the good standing and reputation of the professions.’’
So, as you can see, we, as nurses DO HAVE a professional responsibility at all times….and doctors don’t??
It’s a sad state of affairs if a doctor will sit there and do nothing when someone needs medical assistance because they fear litigation – I wonder what advice the MDU actually gives their members in this matter……..
Our professional bodies are (unofficially) advising us to keep quiet in the event of an incident mid flight,
The reason I joined the profession is because I care about others, as I’m sure you did – so can I ask you - Is it really ok to do nothing thereby NOT acting in the interest of the patient and NOT 'upholding the good standing and reputation' of one's profession?
Dx and takethe5th, thank you for enlightning me with your informative reply.
Dx, as far as I know, the UKCC has been disbanded, and the public is now protected by the new Nursing & Midwifery Council.
You may recall that the UKCC was charged with protecting the public interests, although it did seem to lose quite a bit of credibility in the early and mid nineties. Didn't they let a rapist back on the register ? Hadn't the guy been convicted of raping several patients with mental health problems ? I think that he was reinstated as being fit to practice after a couple of years.
So the UKCC changed its name to the NMC. (Like Windscale did. -same s"*t, different hat).
Takethe5th, thank you for reminding me about my duty of care. As you rightly state, nurses have a duty of care at all times, and, as you point out, it is a sad day when doctors (?and nurses), are prevented from acting as they feel they should, because of the fear of litigation.
Unfortunately, your reply does not really answer my original point. It is all very well the NMC stating that they won't hold be professionally culprible, but they won't be the ones suing me.
I'm heartened that you can find it so easy to seperate professional responsibility from professional indemnity, but unfortunately living and working and flying in the real world (I left the cosy world of secondary care several years ago), makes it difficult for me to seperate the two.
So my question still stands, who would indemnify me if an airliner passenger suffered resultant damage because of my negligent actions ?
PS would I perform first aid if needed.....of course I would, but I'd let some other fool come rushing forward shouting "Its ok I'm a nurse !"
Dx, as far as I know, the UKCC has been disbanded, and the public is now protected by the new Nursing & Midwifery Council.
You may recall that the UKCC was charged with protecting the public interests, although it did seem to lose quite a bit of credibility in the early and mid nineties. Didn't they let a rapist back on the register ? Hadn't the guy been convicted of raping several patients with mental health problems ? I think that he was reinstated as being fit to practice after a couple of years.
So the UKCC changed its name to the NMC. (Like Windscale did. -same s"*t, different hat).
Takethe5th, thank you for reminding me about my duty of care. As you rightly state, nurses have a duty of care at all times, and, as you point out, it is a sad day when doctors (?and nurses), are prevented from acting as they feel they should, because of the fear of litigation.
Unfortunately, your reply does not really answer my original point. It is all very well the NMC stating that they won't hold be professionally culprible, but they won't be the ones suing me.
I'm heartened that you can find it so easy to seperate professional responsibility from professional indemnity, but unfortunately living and working and flying in the real world (I left the cosy world of secondary care several years ago), makes it difficult for me to seperate the two.
So my question still stands, who would indemnify me if an airliner passenger suffered resultant damage because of my negligent actions ?
PS would I perform first aid if needed.....of course I would, but I'd let some other fool come rushing forward shouting "Its ok I'm a nurse !"
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I just phoned the Medical Defence Union which insures me. Members (i.e. doctors) are covered for good samaritan acts worldwide (even the USA!), even if their membership is temporarily dormant.
QDM
QDM
Thanks for everybody!!!!!!!!!!!!
Just a post script re. the position of the MDU/RCN.
They offer worldwide protection, on a discretionary basis for acts of negligence by their members when acting as good samaritans.
The discretionary cover is indeed worldwide, but is depends on approval by the management board.
I'm not sure how this works in practice, and the risk management dept. were unable to discuss individual cases.
Interestingly, worldwide discretionary cover is only extended to individual paying members, and individuals who are part of a "group" scheme, eg practice nurses, are not covered for good samaritan acts, outside of work.
The RCN claim to extend their cover to good samaritan acts performed outside of work.
I can't be right all the time !
They offer worldwide protection, on a discretionary basis for acts of negligence by their members when acting as good samaritans.
The discretionary cover is indeed worldwide, but is depends on approval by the management board.
I'm not sure how this works in practice, and the risk management dept. were unable to discuss individual cases.
Interestingly, worldwide discretionary cover is only extended to individual paying members, and individuals who are part of a "group" scheme, eg practice nurses, are not covered for good samaritan acts, outside of work.
The RCN claim to extend their cover to good samaritan acts performed outside of work.
I can't be right all the time !
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The BA Medical kit mentioned earlier (formerly, and still known to crew as the M5 kit) has an indemnity form within it. BA will indemnify any medical professional who acts on board their aircraft.. can't speak for other airlines, which obviously doesn't mean to imply no-one else does. I think you will find amongst the larger carriers this is the norm. If I'd thought, I could have looked for the form, as had the kit open last trip (buccastem).. will make a point next time.
Also several major airlines have contracts with medical advice agencies (Medlink in Phoenix being the one I am familiar with.) Contact can be made by Satellite phone if fitted, HF radio, or ACARS (SMS-type datalink.) Have used this service in anger twice and found it invaluable where there was no on the spot medical personnel. Crew are trained to note basic signs and symptoms, and guided by the use of a pro-forma; information is then passed to the Doctors who are aware of aircraft position, route and destination as well as the nature of any specialist hospital units along the intended route.
Indeed, the value can come not only in advising of the best diversion options, and urgency of the situation, but also in sometimes preventing an unnescessary diversion where we as flight crew may have been inclined to err too conservatively based on lack of relevant information.
Also several major airlines have contracts with medical advice agencies (Medlink in Phoenix being the one I am familiar with.) Contact can be made by Satellite phone if fitted, HF radio, or ACARS (SMS-type datalink.) Have used this service in anger twice and found it invaluable where there was no on the spot medical personnel. Crew are trained to note basic signs and symptoms, and guided by the use of a pro-forma; information is then passed to the Doctors who are aware of aircraft position, route and destination as well as the nature of any specialist hospital units along the intended route.
Indeed, the value can come not only in advising of the best diversion options, and urgency of the situation, but also in sometimes preventing an unnescessary diversion where we as flight crew may have been inclined to err too conservatively based on lack of relevant information.
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In my experience of flying (cabin crew for 15 years) the help that we ever got from doctors was pitiful. Most of the medication that is needed routinely on a flight is able to be administered by the cabin crew. If there is something more immediate then we used the radio to contact Medlink, and they advised us whether we needed to have a doctor or not. Usually they are not needed.
Now I work in the medical field (as a paramedic) the medical training that the cabin crew receives is of a high standard, and if the cabin crew are confident, you highly paid, arrogant doctors are not really needed.
Also British Airways carries a Samaritans Indemnity for the very rare occasion that someone does help.
Now I work in the medical field (as a paramedic) the medical training that the cabin crew receives is of a high standard, and if the cabin crew are confident, you highly paid, arrogant doctors are not really needed.
Also British Airways carries a Samaritans Indemnity for the very rare occasion that someone does help.