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COVID-19 vaccine and future pilot risks?

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COVID-19 vaccine and future pilot risks?

Old 15th Jun 2021, 17:15
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COVID-19 vaccine and future pilot risks?

Hi everyone,
I have been considering my vaccination over the past few months as I am approaching the age of being vaccinated.

The one thing that concerns me is the possibility of being vaccinated and developing a long term condition a few years after receiving the vaccine, taking me out of the cockpit after making the monstrous investment into it. We donít yet understand the risk of that happening as the vaccines havenít been out there for years. Now, Iíve ramped up my research around the topic to understand the risk of that happening and put my mind at rest.

what worries me even more is the possibility of Heath organisations reporting issues developing in the long term because of vaccines and insurance companies, being vicious as they famously are, adding clauses saying you wonít be covered if youíve been vaccinated.

questions are:is anyone else thinking about this? am I tripping too hard here?
if not, has vaccination been spoken about by pilot insurance companies? What have they said?
Have insurance companies pulled pilotsí legs like that before?

everyoneís input is very welcome and Iím mainly interested in what people from Europe have to say here (EASA and CAA/UK regulated countries)
ale.masetti is offline  
Old 15th Jun 2021, 17:27
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I wouldn't be worried. The chances of getting a disqualifying decrease in fitness as a result of severe COVID so far seem a lot greater than the chances of losing fitness as a result of vaccination. To stay on the safe side, you might want to consult your cardiologist about any elevated risk of thrombosis etc you might have. That might influence your choice of vaccine.
PilotLZ is offline  
Old 16th Jun 2021, 12:03
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Having spoken to my loss of license, they stated that any complication from an approved vaccine is covered. That said, they do not expect any long term problems, expecting for any problem to crop up within the first 2 weeks after each jab. Same as most medical professionals seem to do, although i am absolutely positive that Radgirl knows a whole lot more than me on that front.
Denti is offline  
Old 16th Jun 2021, 20:42
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Hi Denti

Not much to add. I wouldnt have the Chinese or Russian ones as they havent released enough data, dont always seem to contain what is on the label and dont seem that effective. However ale.masetti is in London and if not yet offered a vaccine will get Pfizer or Moderna. Both are just a bit of DNA, nanoparticles a bit like small bits of plastic we injest every day, and some water. There is a trace of antifreeze too but less than you get in a good dollop of hair conditioner, although I accept we dont eat much.

The CDC in the US have looked at 101 MILLION vaccinated people. 126 deaths but 28 were definitely not covid. The median age of the other 98 was 81 so I surmise they died of old age, although we know the vaccines dont work in people who are immunosuppressed (cancer, transplant, Rheumatoid etc) and many more than 98 in 101 million will be immunosuppressed.

So personally I consider myself safe now I am vaccinated. I may need a booster but Uger Sahin who invented the Pfizer vaccine and paid personally for the research will tell us all when, and have it ready in a month.

Long term it is really difficult to see how DNA (and mRNA is a form of DNA) targeted to create neutralising antibodies and immunoglobulins but then being broken down in the body can create any issues long term. There isnt a process for it to do anything. It isnt a drug, there are no metabolites and it does nothing to organs.

Pilot LZ is right - the risks are tiny the benefits are massive. Sadly the Indian variant does spread more easily. Modelling suggest this means we have to have 90% of over 12s vaccinated or infected before we can stop lockdown without increasing cases. So please get vaccinated because there is nothing worse for pilots than no planes flying because the UK is locked down or the economy is bust.
Radgirl is offline  
Old 17th Jun 2021, 00:30
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Eating GM crops isn't an issue actually, like vaccine hysteria it's totally overblown.
chuboy is offline  
Old 17th Jun 2021, 09:39
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dns

Radgirl is correct and her comment is based on fact, yours is not.

GM crops are a completely different paradigm to a mRNA based vaccine.

The mRNA does not modify the host DNA, in fact it never enters the nucleus of the cell. Rather the mRNA is used by the cell as instructions to replicate an antigen, the spike protein. This antigen is then expressed by the host cell to trigger an immune response. Crucially the mRNA is non-self replicating and it broken down by the cell.

In the case of a GM based crops the plant genome is modified to produce desirable characteristics. The concern from regulatory bodies is that GM based crops can replicate in the field and may displace others in a particular biome.
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Old 18th Jun 2021, 11:01
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Originally Posted by Fostex View Post
The mRNA does not modify the host DNA,

https://www.sciencedaily.com/release...0611174037.htm.New discovery shows human cells can write RNA sequences into DNASource:Thomas Jefferson University
Summary:In a discovery that challenges long-held dogma in biology, researchers show that mammalian cells can convert RNA sequences back into DNA, a feat more common in viruses than eukaryotic cells.
keeprighton1974 is offline  
Old 18th Jun 2021, 16:18
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sorry keeprighton1974 this is irrelevant

The paper is about RNA inside the cell where it normally is. Every cell has masses of DNA and RNA controlling the cell.

The vaccine is a tiny amount injected into a muscle OUTSIDE the cells. Doesnt come into contact with your DNA
Radgirl is offline  
Old 26th Jun 2021, 07:15
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Is it "not so bright after all" to have surgery, to take antibiotics, to take oral birth control. All carry risks.

The truth is that ALL medical procedures carry some statistical risk, as does taking a flight in an aircraft for that matter. We tolerate that risk because an adverse outcome is a statistically insignificant event and the positive benefits outweigh the risk.

If you start questioning regulatory processes then I recommend you avoid all medical treatments from now on, aviation too for that matter.
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Old 26th Jun 2021, 22:56
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Well said. Too many seem to have lost the ability to put things into perspective throughout this pandemic.
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Old 27th Jun 2021, 17:59
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I would advise doing some research into adverse effects of the experimental mRNA gene therapy. The yellow card system is a start: https://yellowcard.mhra.gov.uk/ but a better front end to that information, which is easily searchable is at: https://yellowcard.ukcolumn.org/yellow-card-reports . Many doctor groups have called for a halt.

https://www.mdpi.com/2076-393X/9/7/693/htm
The present assessment raises the question whether it would be necessary to rethink policies and use COVID-19 vaccines more sparingly and with some discretion only in those that are willing to accept the risk because they feel more at risk from the true infection than the mock infection. Perhaps it might be necessary to dampen the enthusiasm by sober facts? In our view, the EMA and national authorities should instigate a safety review into the safety database of COVID-19 vaccines and governments should carefully consider their policies in light of these data. Ideally, independent scientists should carry out thorough case reviews of the very severe cases, so that there can be evidence-based recommendations on who is likely to benefit from a SARS-CoV2 vaccination and who is in danger of suffering from side effects. Currently, our estimates show that we have to accept four fatal and 16 serious side effects per 100,000 vaccinations in order to save the lives of 2Ė11 individuals per 100,000 vaccinations, placing risks and benefits on the same order of magnitude.
-----------------------------------
By Malone inventor of mRNA technology
https://trialsitenews.com/bioethics-...ts-going-down/
-----------------------------------
https://www.crick.ac.uk/news/2021-06...d-in-indiaThey found that in people who had been fully vaccinated with two doses of the Pfizer-BioNTech vaccine, levels of neutralising antibodies were more than five times lower* against the B.1.617.2 variant when compared to the original strain, upon which current vaccines are based.

Importantly, this antibody response was even lower in people who had only received one dose. After a single dose of Pfizer-BioNTech, 79% of people had a quantifiable neutralising antibody response against the original strain, but this fell to 50% for B.1.1.7, 32% for B.1.617.2 and 25% for B.1.351.
-------------------------
Class action in progress
https://www.bitchute.com/video/tmSpGjVV1lsl/

pusight is offline  
Old 28th Jun 2021, 00:24
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Sounds like you’re a medical expert. So why are you on PPRuNe preaching to furloughed pilots when you should be advising the government?
AirUK is offline  
Old 28th Jun 2021, 06:13
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I am not a medical expert, but the information in freely available if you look for it.
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Old 28th Jun 2021, 06:23
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I believe this refers to the distribution of the Lipids, which forms part of the "vaccine" delivery system. This was not made public before for the authorization of use and I understand that the information was obtained by a FOI to Japan. The significance is that these nano particles are collecting in organs, they were meant to remain in the muscle at the delivery point. One example, there is a host of period related problems in women post vax, looks at VARS / yellowcard. The ovaries control periods, thus is it the collection of lipids in the ovaries causing these problems?
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Old 28th Jun 2021, 08:24
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dns

If you are 39 as your profile suggests, what you have stated is incorrect based on the surveillance of serious illness occurring as a result of Covid-19.
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Old 28th Jun 2021, 09:42
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As a pilot i would think about long covid. Around 20 to 25% of all those infected do have long covid, and pretty much all of the symptoms associated with that will cause a pilot to lose his medical permanently. And in the end it is a choice between becoming immunized by getting the jab or getting infected.
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Old 28th Jun 2021, 10:41
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dns

Quite alarming if you are willing to accept a risk of 1 in 5000 of serious complications or sequelae from Covid-19 over the much lower risks of a vaccination.

I think I shall leave it at that chaps as this has descended into nonsense.
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Old 28th Jun 2021, 12:03
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this has descended into nonsense.
Spot on Fostex but not because of dns's comment

This attempt to shut down anyone who expresses a different opinion really is getting quite boring...
but because people are quoting papers with no value. Please look at the qualifications of the authors.If none is medically qualified then be suspicious. And we keep getting 'learned publications' which state 'I was talking to a person I met in the street'. This is gossip not science.

There is nothing I can add because the issues raised have no foundation or are wrong. Anyone is welcome to send me a paper and I am happy to appraise it objectively and post anything new. I receive 20 papers a day from leading journals. I make no money from the vaccines and will happily call out issues, but the problem facing aviation is that those who are frightened from getting vaccinated by rubbish papers are reducing the total percentage vaccinated. The Indian or Delta variant needs 90% vaccination to suppress it so if you pilots want to return to full time flying we need to overcome hesitancy
Radgirl is offline  
Old 29th Jun 2021, 23:48
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Spot on Radgirl
AirUK is offline  
Old 3rd Jul 2021, 10:26
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Join Date: Oct 2003
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Also struggling with the vaccine decision. Problem in the US, is that the debate is being shut down. Experienced scientists, including those responsible for the mRNA vaccine itself are being deplatformed. Most of them are not anti-vaccine, they advocate more time, more research and transparency regarding the vaccine. I feel the best is vigorous and open debate from both sides, regarding Covid-19 and the vaccine, but we are not getting that.

https://rumble.com/vhp7y5-full-inter...d-vaccine.html
habubauza is offline  

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