Why are smokers allowed a Class 1 medical certificate?
Thread Starter
Why are smokers allowed a Class 1 medical certificate?
If a pilot suffered from a medical condition that meant that meant that:
1.Their blood could carry significantly less oxygen than normal, to the extent that their time to LOC in a decompression situation was significantly reduced.
2. They had a significantly higher chance of sudden incapacitance in flight due to cardiac arrest.
3. They suffered from irritability and loss of concentration towards the end of a flight, particularly in the critical approach and landing phases.
Would they be allowed a Class 1 medical?
If not, then why are smokers allowed a Class 1 medical?
I would happily see all smokers banned from the cockpit - having to fly with a smoker is intolerable, particularly towards the end and immediately after a flight, when their priority is to find a place to light up rather than properly debrief and sort the aircraft and paperwork.
1.Their blood could carry significantly less oxygen than normal, to the extent that their time to LOC in a decompression situation was significantly reduced.
2. They had a significantly higher chance of sudden incapacitance in flight due to cardiac arrest.
3. They suffered from irritability and loss of concentration towards the end of a flight, particularly in the critical approach and landing phases.
Would they be allowed a Class 1 medical?
If not, then why are smokers allowed a Class 1 medical?
I would happily see all smokers banned from the cockpit - having to fly with a smoker is intolerable, particularly towards the end and immediately after a flight, when their priority is to find a place to light up rather than properly debrief and sort the aircraft and paperwork.
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It is interesting to note that Alaska Airlines has a tobacco-free employment policy. Not only is smoking or tobacco use prohibitted in the workplace, they won't hire users. They site similar reasons that you do, including the statistic that smokers suffer more days away from work due to illness and that costs the company money in terms of lost production and higher medical costs.
http://www.alaskatca.org/policy/alaska-airlines-policy
http://www.nytimes.com/2005/02/08/bu...08smoking.html
However, as for the Authorities, they seem not to regulate lifestyle, just the results. So you can still, legally enjoy the pack of cigarettes, the Johnny Walker, the Kentucky Fried Chicken dinner, and the fast-paced promiscuous vacation in Angeles City or Bangkok. Just don't let any of these things bite you.
http://www.alaskatca.org/policy/alaska-airlines-policy
http://www.nytimes.com/2005/02/08/bu...08smoking.html
However, as for the Authorities, they seem not to regulate lifestyle, just the results. So you can still, legally enjoy the pack of cigarettes, the Johnny Walker, the Kentucky Fried Chicken dinner, and the fast-paced promiscuous vacation in Angeles City or Bangkok. Just don't let any of these things bite you.
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Trim Stab,
Im not a smoker by the way
If the smokers can pass a medical, ie lung capacity and x ray checks, and the medical examiner is happy to certify them fit, then leave them alone.
and your 3 scenarios are hear say.. what if
Im not a smoker by the way
If the smokers can pass a medical, ie lung capacity and x ray checks, and the medical examiner is happy to certify them fit, then leave them alone.
and your 3 scenarios are hear say.. what if
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I smoke...
I also cycle about 200 miles a week in the Scottish Borders and I can play squash (double yellows) for 2 hours pretty much continuously 3 or 4 times a week.
So, despite smoking between 10 and 20 fags a day I'm probably fitter than 'normal', have a significantly lower chance of having a cardiac arrest and I only really get irritable when people pontificate on my lifestyle choices. Oh and just because I smoke doesn't make me any less professional or unlikely to complete my professional responsibilities.
That's why I've held a class 1 for twenty odd years.
Where can I find the middle finger smilie?
So, despite smoking between 10 and 20 fags a day I'm probably fitter than 'normal', have a significantly lower chance of having a cardiac arrest and I only really get irritable when people pontificate on my lifestyle choices. Oh and just because I smoke doesn't make me any less professional or unlikely to complete my professional responsibilities.
That's why I've held a class 1 for twenty odd years.
Where can I find the middle finger smilie?
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I am not a smoker, and I don't like it either.
However:
Smokers are subject to exactly the same medical criteria as everybody else, and when they meet that criteria of course they should be allowed a class one (or any other) medical certificate.
So could someone who is overweight, but given that the standard is significantly less than for an athlete, it is what it is.
Whatever the inherent risks of smoking, it is no more likely that cardiac arrest is, any greater an in-flight risk (small as it is) than for somebody who is overweight, or has a bad diet.
Why would this represent a greater risk, than somebody who was irritable for any number of other reasons?
Really? You sound very irritable and intolerant. Since smoking isn't allowed on most flight decks these days, why would this cause you so much grief? I fly with smokers who are all (as far as I recall) very conscientious about their professional responsibilities. The only time I have ever noticed they are smokers at all, is either down-route (off duty) or if they ask if they can disappear for 5 minutes on a turn-around. In Thirty years I cannot remember that ever causing a problem.
However:
Smokers are subject to exactly the same medical criteria as everybody else, and when they meet that criteria of course they should be allowed a class one (or any other) medical certificate.
1.Their blood could carry significantly less oxygen than normal, to the extent that their time to LOC in a decompression situation was significantly reduced.
2. They had a significantly higher chance of sudden incapacitance in flight due to cardiac arrest.
3. They suffered from irritability and loss of concentration towards the end of a flight, particularly in the critical approach and landing phases.
I would happily see all smokers banned from the cockpit - having to fly with a smoker is intolerable, particularly towards the end and immediately after a flight, when their priority is to find a place to light up rather than properly debrief and sort the aircraft and paperwork.
Thread Starter
Since smoking isn't allowed on most flight decks these days, why would this cause you so much grief?
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I don't smoke, but if you're so concerned about their ability to concentrate at the final part of the flight let them have a smoke before descent. It won't hurt you much.
Thread Starter
However, as for the Authorities, they seem not to regulate lifestyle, just the results. So you can still, legally enjoy the pack of cigarettes, the Johnny Walker, the Kentucky Fried Chicken dinner, and the fast-paced promiscuous vacation in Angeles City or Bangkok. Just don't let any of these things bite you.
Alcoholism is already considered an "illness", so why not tobacco addiction?
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TS, as I tried to allude to in my other post smoking isn't solely responsible for poor health. Indeed I'm probably, definitely, fitter, cardiovascularly(!) than I was when I was in my mid twenties. It's more about lifestyle as its easy to fall into a sedentary way of life especially after your fifth consecutive early.
Do no exercise for twenty years and I'll outrun you all day long even though I smoke twenty a day.
Do no exercise for twenty years and I'll outrun you all day long even though I smoke twenty a day.
We're not really meant to comment on here in case we get struck off, so that's why I'm whispering, but in general, smoking does tend to increase morbidity and mortality, but in terms of sudden incapacitation, then I'm not sure there is much evidence that smokers cause more crashes than non smokers. Have you ?
Está servira para distraerle.
A good cigar is a smoke of course and a woman is only a woman, to paraphrase for a moment, and that's another topic. One should have thought though that in the CRM stakes, a smoker in the cockpit was rather less inclined to prejudice and thus destructive propensities, than the sanctimoniousness, reminiscent of Brother Jerome in Cadfael, so often found in non smokers or even, heaven forfend, reformed smokers.
A little sinning is good for the soul and were smoking to increase morbidity and mortality rates, which it is certain that it does, all that happens then is that the top ranks of pilots are thinned out earlier than nature's normal course would dictate, thus permitting the rise of young whipper snappers through the levels of command rather earlier than perhaps their experience might dictate as being advisable.
A little sinning is good for the soul and were smoking to increase morbidity and mortality rates, which it is certain that it does, all that happens then is that the top ranks of pilots are thinned out earlier than nature's normal course would dictate, thus permitting the rise of young whipper snappers through the levels of command rather earlier than perhaps their experience might dictate as being advisable.
Last edited by cavortingcheetah; 3rd Jul 2013 at 06:51.
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off thread, but, Gingernut, please continue to offer your respected advice & comfort in those highly informative & entertaining articulations. It is appalling that you & other members of your profession should be intimidated. Perhaps a way round it is to seek employments as a paid adviser to the PPrune forums(?). Well, back on thread. I do not read anything about the dangers of secondary smoke inhalation. Smoking is a filthy habit and in a confined space, only the pompous asses who abound would even consider inflicting the misery on non-smoking colleagues. Way back in history, when I was a lowly FO, a miserable ,boorish, pompous , so-called "Captain" lit up the first of his chain smoking drug addictions, on the ground, while we were re-fuelling. Top of Climb, feeling a bit sick, I asked if he was going to do that for the next nine hours. Thinking he was Clark Gable in an old Black & White movie, he lit up TWO at the same time & blew smoke in my face. I told him, " Aaaah, if you are going to do that, I am going to do THIS ".......and placed my Oxy mask on. Brill. I sounded like a Fighter pilot on the R/T & looked, every inch, a WW2 Bomber pilot. He responded me with a wry; " Ok, we need to come to an agreement".
Está servira para distraerle.
Poor persecuted fellow!
But for all that, not as unfortunate as some of one's acquaintance who had a chief pilot who used to smoke a pipe in the cockpit. He was though a man of some selective intellect who would gauge his pipe smoking to the conversational intelligence of his first officer; the degree of pipe smoking being in inverse proportion to the intellectually communicative capabilities of the right hand seat occupier and the finite supply of crew oxygen.
But for all that, not as unfortunate as some of one's acquaintance who had a chief pilot who used to smoke a pipe in the cockpit. He was though a man of some selective intellect who would gauge his pipe smoking to the conversational intelligence of his first officer; the degree of pipe smoking being in inverse proportion to the intellectually communicative capabilities of the right hand seat occupier and the finite supply of crew oxygen.
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How convenient!
The CAA has just published the Global Fatal Accident Review 2002-2011 statistics and over 72% are attributable to smoking...........or maybe not!
CAP 1036: Global Fatal Accident Review 2002 to 2011 | Publications | About the CAA
In fact, medical incapacity is not even cited as a causal or contributory factor in any part of the report; however, some of the categories are quite interesting (I use the word very loosely).
PS. I am an ex-smoker (many years hence) who now hates the bl**dy stuff with a passion but I can't be doing with persecuting anyone else for doing with their life what they want to.
The CAA has just published the Global Fatal Accident Review 2002-2011 statistics and over 72% are attributable to smoking...........or maybe not!
CAP 1036: Global Fatal Accident Review 2002 to 2011 | Publications | About the CAA
In fact, medical incapacity is not even cited as a causal or contributory factor in any part of the report; however, some of the categories are quite interesting (I use the word very loosely).
PS. I am an ex-smoker (many years hence) who now hates the bl**dy stuff with a passion but I can't be doing with persecuting anyone else for doing with their life what they want to.
Last edited by 2close; 4th Jul 2013 at 11:33.
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Freedom
I am not, nor have I ever been a smoker. When I was about 12, I asked my brother, "why don´t you smoke, you are old enough?"
He said that when he was my age, my father (a heavy smoker, along with my mother and sister) had seen him smoking in the school yard. When he got home, my father said that he needn´t hide the smoking, he could smoke at home if he wanted to. Then he said....but look at me-The first thing I do in the morning is cough and hack. When I drive, I have phlegm rising and spit out the window, which everyone hates, I don´t enjoy hunting as much anymore, as I am out of breath, it is a dirty habit and it costs a lot of money that I wish I had now, rather than having smoked it up. If you think that is the way to go, you´re welcome to it.
That made sense to my brother and it made sense to me when he related the story, ergo....the three brothers have never smoked. My sister finally stopped after developing emphysima.
But I will never refuse the right of others to make their own choices.
What I will not accept, is smoking in the cockpit, as it is in the other direction, impolite to the non-smokers in the crew.
I also do indeed find it irritating that we have to wait for the smoker before the taxi ride, after the taxi ride back to the airport, have extra work, because they are not there, just "off to the handling agent for the WC..."
In a commuter I was flying for, the smoking SIC was gone like a shot after landing, no-where to be found before departure and always reeked. My present SIC is slightly more discrete, but the same crap, including trying to find places to smoke on the ramp(!) out of sight. Even being told by the handling agent that it would result in a big fine if she was caught, the b((/"% just laughed it off like it was a joke.
Personally, I will never hire a smoker, simple as that. I won´t prevent them from smoking, but it won´t be on my airplane for the reasons mentioned, it is just too much of a time-waster and it impacts everyone else. It would apply to any other habit with the same results. If I had had a say in the hiring of this SIC it would not have happened but now I am stuck with it.
He said that when he was my age, my father (a heavy smoker, along with my mother and sister) had seen him smoking in the school yard. When he got home, my father said that he needn´t hide the smoking, he could smoke at home if he wanted to. Then he said....but look at me-The first thing I do in the morning is cough and hack. When I drive, I have phlegm rising and spit out the window, which everyone hates, I don´t enjoy hunting as much anymore, as I am out of breath, it is a dirty habit and it costs a lot of money that I wish I had now, rather than having smoked it up. If you think that is the way to go, you´re welcome to it.
That made sense to my brother and it made sense to me when he related the story, ergo....the three brothers have never smoked. My sister finally stopped after developing emphysima.
But I will never refuse the right of others to make their own choices.
What I will not accept, is smoking in the cockpit, as it is in the other direction, impolite to the non-smokers in the crew.
I also do indeed find it irritating that we have to wait for the smoker before the taxi ride, after the taxi ride back to the airport, have extra work, because they are not there, just "off to the handling agent for the WC..."
In a commuter I was flying for, the smoking SIC was gone like a shot after landing, no-where to be found before departure and always reeked. My present SIC is slightly more discrete, but the same crap, including trying to find places to smoke on the ramp(!) out of sight. Even being told by the handling agent that it would result in a big fine if she was caught, the b((/"% just laughed it off like it was a joke.
Personally, I will never hire a smoker, simple as that. I won´t prevent them from smoking, but it won´t be on my airplane for the reasons mentioned, it is just too much of a time-waster and it impacts everyone else. It would apply to any other habit with the same results. If I had had a say in the hiring of this SIC it would not have happened but now I am stuck with it.
off thread, but, Gingernut, please continue to offer your respected advice & comfort in those highly informative & entertaining articulations.
Está servira para distraerle.
A pseudonym for a smoking medical consultant?
Burnt Umber: Redolent of the colour of a cancerous lung.
Cadmium Red: Suggest the internal appearance of a cancerous bladder.
Burnt Sienna: Conjures the pulsating tints of oesophageal cancer.
It's all Smoke and Mirrors when you extend the brief to health tourism, one great and much avoided bane of the NHS.
Burnt Umber: Redolent of the colour of a cancerous lung.
Cadmium Red: Suggest the internal appearance of a cancerous bladder.
Burnt Sienna: Conjures the pulsating tints of oesophageal cancer.
It's all Smoke and Mirrors when you extend the brief to health tourism, one great and much avoided bane of the NHS.
