Collective Colour Vision Thread 3
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Qatar medical
Brother,
Look for Dr Vânia Malheiros at Santa Casa de São Paulo. She is a JAA and FAA certified medical examineer in Brazil. If you can pass a JAA class 1 you can pass the qatar phisical. There is a clinic in BH where you can go for the lantern tests If you need to.
Boa sorte!
Look for Dr Vânia Malheiros at Santa Casa de São Paulo. She is a JAA and FAA certified medical examineer in Brazil. If you can pass a JAA class 1 you can pass the qatar phisical. There is a clinic in BH where you can go for the lantern tests If you need to.
Boa sorte!
Join Date: Apr 2004
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Captan,
Yes there are lots of CVD pilots flying in Australia. I am one of them. I fly professionally yet I cannot pass any of the clinical colour visions tests and I think I have tried them all: ishihara,farnsworth,beynes,Holmes-wright,CAD all at great expense - nice little industry those 'professionals' have! (12% of all prospective pilots paying for one test after another)
23 years ago in Australia an aviation medical examiner called Arthur Pape took the aviation authority to court over his own colour vision defective restrictions and won! Before the case he was not allowed to fly at night but for 23 years now we colour vision defective pilots have been flying at night and even flying for the airlines and most definitely flying into your own country piloting 747s and airbuses.
The court case sat for over 30 days and examined the myriad ways the aviation authority claimed colour was important in aviation and the courts decision was that CVD deutans (most of us) do not pose any risk to the safety of aviation. Undecided on protans (much more rare). This guy Arthur Pape is a hero to us CVD 'wavelength cripples'. Look him up he's on Facebook. Never mind Schindler's List we should have a Pape's List! for all the hundreds or thousands of CVD Pilots he has allowed to find a career in Australia. We owe him dearly.
Did you know that one of the NASA shuttle pilots had severe CVD! Migrate to Australia (I did) or follow in Arthur's footsteps in your own country!
Yes there are lots of CVD pilots flying in Australia. I am one of them. I fly professionally yet I cannot pass any of the clinical colour visions tests and I think I have tried them all: ishihara,farnsworth,beynes,Holmes-wright,CAD all at great expense - nice little industry those 'professionals' have! (12% of all prospective pilots paying for one test after another)
23 years ago in Australia an aviation medical examiner called Arthur Pape took the aviation authority to court over his own colour vision defective restrictions and won! Before the case he was not allowed to fly at night but for 23 years now we colour vision defective pilots have been flying at night and even flying for the airlines and most definitely flying into your own country piloting 747s and airbuses.
The court case sat for over 30 days and examined the myriad ways the aviation authority claimed colour was important in aviation and the courts decision was that CVD deutans (most of us) do not pose any risk to the safety of aviation. Undecided on protans (much more rare). This guy Arthur Pape is a hero to us CVD 'wavelength cripples'. Look him up he's on Facebook. Never mind Schindler's List we should have a Pape's List! for all the hundreds or thousands of CVD Pilots he has allowed to find a career in Australia. We owe him dearly.
Did you know that one of the NASA shuttle pilots had severe CVD! Migrate to Australia (I did) or follow in Arthur's footsteps in your own country!
Last edited by outofwhack; 30th Apr 2012 at 19:07.
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Squint in right eye.....class 1
Had my class 1 today and all was fine apart from ive got to go to park hospital Gatwick to see a specialist about my squint as they were unsure wether i may develop double vision in the future.
should i be worried or is this standard procedure??
any PMs would be highly helpful as would any replies from past experience.
should i be worried or is this standard procedure??
any PMs would be highly helpful as would any replies from past experience.
Hi all,
As outofwhack mentions, get in touch with Dr Arthur Pape. He has very recently formed the Colour Vision Defective Pilots Association (search Facebook). Things are starting to heat up again here in Australia now with a further legal challenge in its initial stages. Apologies in advance for the long post, but let me share with you my testimony.
I have been flying now for 14 years and have logged over 5000 hours in a variety of operations. I in fact hold a full Australian ATPL licence and achieved this licence 7 years ago now. However, I am one of those pilots who are still being discriminated against by CASA and the archaic colour vision standard that not only remains here in Australia, but also around the world. Despite the fact that I hold an ATPL, my Class 1 medical certificate still has two restrictions:
(1) Not valid for ATPL operations; and
(2) Holder does not fully meet the requirements of ICAO Convention Chapter 6 of Annex 1
This is due to the fact that I am a ‘protanope’ and have failed CASA’s colour vision tests. These restrictions therefore preclude me from exercising my hard earned ATPL privileges and effectively mean that I can only fly using CPL privileges and only inside Australian airspace. I use the word ‘discriminate’ because that is exactly what these restrictions are. Here in Australia, CVD pilots such as myself and many others like me have been operating safely now for over two decades at the highest levels in aviation ever since the Pape and Denison cases at the Administrative Appeals Tribunal. These cases were instrumental in allowing us to progress our careers far beyond what was previously possible. However, the great work that was done back in the 1980’s still needs to be finished, not only for the benefit of Australian pilots but also those of you who wish to have fulfilling aviation careers overseas.
I started my aviation career instructing where over the years I progressed and eventually became a Grade 1 Instructor. I was responsible for all levels of training through to CPL level and also night and multi-engine IFR training. I thoroughly enjoyed my instructing experience and over this period have trained many pilots who themselves have also gone on to have successful general aviation and airline careers.
Additionally, I have worked in the charter environment where I flew high performance multi engine aircraft on both freight and passenger charter operations. This flying was all single-pilot and predominately IFR, including many hours at night and often in very poor weather conditions. As a senior pilot at the company I worked for, I was also responsible for conducting line training for new pilots to our company. All this flying taught me valuable lessons and it reinforced to me the fact that my colour vision deficiency simply did not matter! I was able to pass all flight tests undertaken to a high standard, I operated glass cockpit aircraft with EFIS display screens and I had no problems interpreting visual approach guidance such as red-white PAPI. Indeed, I was no ‘less’ safe than those pilots that I was training or my peers that I worked with every day.
Since that time, I have advanced my career and now work as a First Officer flying Dash 8’s for an Australian regional airline. I am able to do this using my CPL privileges as I am currently operating only as a co-pilot. However, I am now at the point where I am ready to obtain a command position and become a Captain. This leads me back to the discrimination in the CVD standard and my medical restrictions which are preventing me from achieving this goal. Apparently, according to the authorities, I’m ‘safe’ to operate by myself using CPL privileges and can completely legally fly any single pilot aircraft as pilot in command (such as Chieftan, King Air, Metroliner just to name a few examples), yet I’m suddenly deemed ‘unsafe’ when it comes to flying a multi-crew aircraft as pilot in command.
This makes no logical sense – as a First Officer we are required to pass exactly the same simulator checks as our Captains on a regular basis. As all airline pilots would know, simulator checks are one of the more stressful requirements of our employment. Here we are assessed in all aspects of normal and abnormal operations including engine failures/engine fires after take-off, rapid depressurisations and various systems abnormalities.
Additionally, even in normal line flying we operate ‘leg-for-leg’. Flight sectors are shared evenly between both the Captain and First Officer and when pilot flying, as a co-pilot we are generally tasked with making decisions in exactly the same way the Captain would if it was his/her sector.
I readily admit that I cannot pass colour vision tests – but as my experience demonstrates, this does not in any way affect my ability to operate an aircraft safely at the highest levels possible. In Australia, as many pilots would be aware following the Denison AAT decision, CASA introduced a ‘practical’ test to further assess pilots with colour vision deficiencies. One of these tests was the control tower signal gun test. I have attempted this test three times now and on each occasion only scored one light wrong – yet that was still deemed a fail and has meant the difference between me being able to exercise my full ATPL privileges and having my career being put on hold as it is currently. Of all the CVD pilots I have spoken to who did pass this test, most readily admit that they only did so due to sheer luck.
The real problem however is that the signal gun test is not a ‘practical’ test in the way that the Denison AAT decision recommended. I am yet to speak to one pilot who has ever seen a signal gun light in a real life environment – so therefore how can it possibly be considered a ‘practical’ test?
Picture this for a moment – you’re flying a Dash 8 or B737 or A380 (or any aircraft for that matter!) into a busy international airport and have suffered a radio failure. Can you seriously imagine the control tower shining anything other than a green light issuing a landing clearance? They’re hardly going to want to give you a red-light indicating to go-around while you’ve got no comms. Similarly, how about you taxi to the holding point and suffer a radio failure? Do you think that ATC are likely to give you a green light issuing a take-off clearance?
Aside from these points, the regulations clearly state that an aircraft suffering a radio failure is going to be given one of the highest landing priorities possible. Furthermore, aircraft that we fly in the ATPL environment are equipped with not only dual VHF radios, but also HF and satellite phones in addition to personal cellular phones. Many instrument approach plates these also include a telephone number for ATC in the event of a loss of communications. None make mention of looking for the out-dated signal gun light. The chances of ever having to resort to one of these lights are miniscule. It is simply another ‘colour vision test’ and does not in any way reflect a pilot’s ability to operate safely within the aviation environment.
Not only are there many pilots in Australia such as myself who are still being discriminated against, there are many others around the world such as those of you here on Pprune who need a starting point in challenging their own authorities. The time for talk is now over and we need action – but this can only be achieved collectively and requires enormous funding towards legal costs. Here in Australia, our legal preparation is now well advanced in taking this next step, but the financial burden is significant and not something that we can do on our own. If we can all contribute a little, then I’m sure a lot can be achieved!
Thank you for taking the time to read my testimony and please don’t hesitate to get in touch with me should you like more information.
As outofwhack mentions, get in touch with Dr Arthur Pape. He has very recently formed the Colour Vision Defective Pilots Association (search Facebook). Things are starting to heat up again here in Australia now with a further legal challenge in its initial stages. Apologies in advance for the long post, but let me share with you my testimony.
I have been flying now for 14 years and have logged over 5000 hours in a variety of operations. I in fact hold a full Australian ATPL licence and achieved this licence 7 years ago now. However, I am one of those pilots who are still being discriminated against by CASA and the archaic colour vision standard that not only remains here in Australia, but also around the world. Despite the fact that I hold an ATPL, my Class 1 medical certificate still has two restrictions:
(1) Not valid for ATPL operations; and
(2) Holder does not fully meet the requirements of ICAO Convention Chapter 6 of Annex 1
This is due to the fact that I am a ‘protanope’ and have failed CASA’s colour vision tests. These restrictions therefore preclude me from exercising my hard earned ATPL privileges and effectively mean that I can only fly using CPL privileges and only inside Australian airspace. I use the word ‘discriminate’ because that is exactly what these restrictions are. Here in Australia, CVD pilots such as myself and many others like me have been operating safely now for over two decades at the highest levels in aviation ever since the Pape and Denison cases at the Administrative Appeals Tribunal. These cases were instrumental in allowing us to progress our careers far beyond what was previously possible. However, the great work that was done back in the 1980’s still needs to be finished, not only for the benefit of Australian pilots but also those of you who wish to have fulfilling aviation careers overseas.
I started my aviation career instructing where over the years I progressed and eventually became a Grade 1 Instructor. I was responsible for all levels of training through to CPL level and also night and multi-engine IFR training. I thoroughly enjoyed my instructing experience and over this period have trained many pilots who themselves have also gone on to have successful general aviation and airline careers.
Additionally, I have worked in the charter environment where I flew high performance multi engine aircraft on both freight and passenger charter operations. This flying was all single-pilot and predominately IFR, including many hours at night and often in very poor weather conditions. As a senior pilot at the company I worked for, I was also responsible for conducting line training for new pilots to our company. All this flying taught me valuable lessons and it reinforced to me the fact that my colour vision deficiency simply did not matter! I was able to pass all flight tests undertaken to a high standard, I operated glass cockpit aircraft with EFIS display screens and I had no problems interpreting visual approach guidance such as red-white PAPI. Indeed, I was no ‘less’ safe than those pilots that I was training or my peers that I worked with every day.
Since that time, I have advanced my career and now work as a First Officer flying Dash 8’s for an Australian regional airline. I am able to do this using my CPL privileges as I am currently operating only as a co-pilot. However, I am now at the point where I am ready to obtain a command position and become a Captain. This leads me back to the discrimination in the CVD standard and my medical restrictions which are preventing me from achieving this goal. Apparently, according to the authorities, I’m ‘safe’ to operate by myself using CPL privileges and can completely legally fly any single pilot aircraft as pilot in command (such as Chieftan, King Air, Metroliner just to name a few examples), yet I’m suddenly deemed ‘unsafe’ when it comes to flying a multi-crew aircraft as pilot in command.
This makes no logical sense – as a First Officer we are required to pass exactly the same simulator checks as our Captains on a regular basis. As all airline pilots would know, simulator checks are one of the more stressful requirements of our employment. Here we are assessed in all aspects of normal and abnormal operations including engine failures/engine fires after take-off, rapid depressurisations and various systems abnormalities.
Additionally, even in normal line flying we operate ‘leg-for-leg’. Flight sectors are shared evenly between both the Captain and First Officer and when pilot flying, as a co-pilot we are generally tasked with making decisions in exactly the same way the Captain would if it was his/her sector.
I readily admit that I cannot pass colour vision tests – but as my experience demonstrates, this does not in any way affect my ability to operate an aircraft safely at the highest levels possible. In Australia, as many pilots would be aware following the Denison AAT decision, CASA introduced a ‘practical’ test to further assess pilots with colour vision deficiencies. One of these tests was the control tower signal gun test. I have attempted this test three times now and on each occasion only scored one light wrong – yet that was still deemed a fail and has meant the difference between me being able to exercise my full ATPL privileges and having my career being put on hold as it is currently. Of all the CVD pilots I have spoken to who did pass this test, most readily admit that they only did so due to sheer luck.
The real problem however is that the signal gun test is not a ‘practical’ test in the way that the Denison AAT decision recommended. I am yet to speak to one pilot who has ever seen a signal gun light in a real life environment – so therefore how can it possibly be considered a ‘practical’ test?
Picture this for a moment – you’re flying a Dash 8 or B737 or A380 (or any aircraft for that matter!) into a busy international airport and have suffered a radio failure. Can you seriously imagine the control tower shining anything other than a green light issuing a landing clearance? They’re hardly going to want to give you a red-light indicating to go-around while you’ve got no comms. Similarly, how about you taxi to the holding point and suffer a radio failure? Do you think that ATC are likely to give you a green light issuing a take-off clearance?
Aside from these points, the regulations clearly state that an aircraft suffering a radio failure is going to be given one of the highest landing priorities possible. Furthermore, aircraft that we fly in the ATPL environment are equipped with not only dual VHF radios, but also HF and satellite phones in addition to personal cellular phones. Many instrument approach plates these also include a telephone number for ATC in the event of a loss of communications. None make mention of looking for the out-dated signal gun light. The chances of ever having to resort to one of these lights are miniscule. It is simply another ‘colour vision test’ and does not in any way reflect a pilot’s ability to operate safely within the aviation environment.
Not only are there many pilots in Australia such as myself who are still being discriminated against, there are many others around the world such as those of you here on Pprune who need a starting point in challenging their own authorities. The time for talk is now over and we need action – but this can only be achieved collectively and requires enormous funding towards legal costs. Here in Australia, our legal preparation is now well advanced in taking this next step, but the financial burden is significant and not something that we can do on our own. If we can all contribute a little, then I’m sure a lot can be achieved!
Thank you for taking the time to read my testimony and please don’t hesitate to get in touch with me should you like more information.
Join Date: Apr 2004
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Arthur Pape's real website is Colour Vision Defective Pilots Association (CVDPA)
The Facebook page is just what gets 'liked' when you go to cvdpa.com
Looks like it's finally happening. Sounds like it's worth joining.
The Facebook page is just what gets 'liked' when you go to cvdpa.com
Looks like it's finally happening. Sounds like it's worth joining.
Last edited by Bad medicine; 1st May 2012 at 21:39. Reason: Removed commercial link
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Hi chaps
Have had a brief look at the CVDPA website. I am very pleased to see a co-ordinated tilt at getting rid of the current range of tests. I recommend you contribute to the fighting fund whatever you can reasonably afford even if you live in another country or you are one of the lucky few, like myself, who have been able to get passed one of the CASA tests. Eventually you will benefit by what's going on here and if the rest of the world follows we can fly there too!
Having said that when I tried to contribute the link did not work and a little more information about how the cash will be held and/or spent would be nice. It's time to get rid of this thing once and for all.
Have had a brief look at the CVDPA website. I am very pleased to see a co-ordinated tilt at getting rid of the current range of tests. I recommend you contribute to the fighting fund whatever you can reasonably afford even if you live in another country or you are one of the lucky few, like myself, who have been able to get passed one of the CASA tests. Eventually you will benefit by what's going on here and if the rest of the world follows we can fly there too!
Having said that when I tried to contribute the link did not work and a little more information about how the cash will be held and/or spent would be nice. It's time to get rid of this thing once and for all.
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: ˙ǝqɐq ǝɯ ʇ,uıɐ ʇɐɥʇ 'sɔıʇɐqoɹǝɐ ɹoɟ uʍop ǝpısdn ǝɯɐu ɹıǝɥʇ ʇnd ǝɯos
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I just successfully made contributions (albeit with PayPal) in two halves.
One using the top donate button and one using the bottom donate button so it looks like its working to me.
I also joined up!
Someone might want to try making a donation by credit card and email the webmaster at [email protected] with your findings.
Hell I have been hoping for 20 years that a real coordinate effort could get going and it looks like its really going to happen.
If 5000 of us joined even just for 1 year that would raise $600k! Enough to kick start an international band of lawyers! And with Arthurs track record we are all onto a winner.
Its best we all stop talking and worrying about it, dig deep and support a proven team!
One using the top donate button and one using the bottom donate button so it looks like its working to me.
I also joined up!
Someone might want to try making a donation by credit card and email the webmaster at [email protected] with your findings.
Hell I have been hoping for 20 years that a real coordinate effort could get going and it looks like its really going to happen.
If 5000 of us joined even just for 1 year that would raise $600k! Enough to kick start an international band of lawyers! And with Arthurs track record we are all onto a winner.
Its best we all stop talking and worrying about it, dig deep and support a proven team!
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: ˙ǝqɐq ǝɯ ʇ,uıɐ ʇɐɥʇ 'sɔıʇɐqoɹǝɐ ɹoɟ uʍop ǝpısdn ǝɯɐu ɹıǝɥʇ ʇnd ǝɯos
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No advertising here.
I would like to propose a summary of the substance of this thread.
(5000? posts over 15? Years).
The thread mostly contains reports from a fraction of the hundreds or thousands of people running around Europe trying to find an accepted colour vision test that they can pass. I know because I did it for myself 20 years ago and spent thousands. I couldnt find one.
Do any of you feel that there is any task in flying aeroplanes/helicopters that you do unsafely because of your suspect colour vision? I bet not otherwise you wouldnt have the motivation would you. Trust your instincts - you fly perfectly well - but don't let your instincts make you think your vision is normal.
You all drive to the airport. The department of transport let you have a licence because they have found colour deficient drivers do the right thing at lights.
So do CVD pilots with the lights used in all aspects of aviation and it's been accepted by a court in Australia and we CVDs go fly airplanes professionally.
The UK / European regulations are denying you your chosen career but let perhaps a trickle through to let you have hope - the standards are wrong - you must question them! An aircraft doesnt ask you to name colours and numerals are not displayed with ishihara dots.
Don't think the CAD test is any different to the other tests. It's bull****. They say it passes more of us than other tests - likely a trick to get people to try it (and thx for the money
) I've done it. I'm a 2000hour CPL(A) CVD and I am telling you the CAD Test is nothing to do with flying an aircraft. You are being hoodwinked.
The only valid test should be the piloting of an aircraft and comparison of that performance with your colour normal brothers.
But there's more ....... The testing has already been done for you by your ozzie brethren!
For over 20 years CVD pilots have been flying airliners in and out of Australia safely and passing emergency simulations during simulator check rides just as well as their colour normal colleagues.
No one person can afford to put this right as the authorities have tax payers money to use to defend the standard. (Except perhaps would-be-pilot colour blind chef Jamie Oliver).
So short of Jamie coming to help I suggest we unite in great numbers. We could not be defeated in court and there is a well qualified proven court ready leader.
So please wake up the sleepers on this thread and stop hoping you might be in the 10% of CVDs who will get through a test. You probably wont.
Stop thinking to yourself "I only have a mild case of CVD" and 'I can see the colours really'. Any simple colour vision test will show you up as a fool.
Instead look at what's been happening in Australia and begin to see things clearly.
I would like to propose a summary of the substance of this thread.
(5000? posts over 15? Years).
The thread mostly contains reports from a fraction of the hundreds or thousands of people running around Europe trying to find an accepted colour vision test that they can pass. I know because I did it for myself 20 years ago and spent thousands. I couldnt find one.
Do any of you feel that there is any task in flying aeroplanes/helicopters that you do unsafely because of your suspect colour vision? I bet not otherwise you wouldnt have the motivation would you. Trust your instincts - you fly perfectly well - but don't let your instincts make you think your vision is normal.
You all drive to the airport. The department of transport let you have a licence because they have found colour deficient drivers do the right thing at lights.
So do CVD pilots with the lights used in all aspects of aviation and it's been accepted by a court in Australia and we CVDs go fly airplanes professionally.
The UK / European regulations are denying you your chosen career but let perhaps a trickle through to let you have hope - the standards are wrong - you must question them! An aircraft doesnt ask you to name colours and numerals are not displayed with ishihara dots.
Don't think the CAD test is any different to the other tests. It's bull****. They say it passes more of us than other tests - likely a trick to get people to try it (and thx for the money
) I've done it. I'm a 2000hour CPL(A) CVD and I am telling you the CAD Test is nothing to do with flying an aircraft. You are being hoodwinked.The only valid test should be the piloting of an aircraft and comparison of that performance with your colour normal brothers.
But there's more ....... The testing has already been done for you by your ozzie brethren!
For over 20 years CVD pilots have been flying airliners in and out of Australia safely and passing emergency simulations during simulator check rides just as well as their colour normal colleagues.
No one person can afford to put this right as the authorities have tax payers money to use to defend the standard. (Except perhaps would-be-pilot colour blind chef Jamie Oliver).
So short of Jamie coming to help I suggest we unite in great numbers. We could not be defeated in court and there is a well qualified proven court ready leader.
So please wake up the sleepers on this thread and stop hoping you might be in the 10% of CVDs who will get through a test. You probably wont.
Stop thinking to yourself "I only have a mild case of CVD" and 'I can see the colours really'. Any simple colour vision test will show you up as a fool.
Instead look at what's been happening in Australia and begin to see things clearly.
Last edited by outofwhack; 3rd May 2012 at 07:59.
well spoken,
To johnobr,
I congratulate you on a brilliantly written post. Many would know my past involvement in the fight for CVDP justice, but I have to say that in getting to know you, and having become very familiar with your personal and flying history, I am inspired by your honesty, patience and professionalism. I have no doubt that when all this conflict is over, any airline will be delighted to have you on board on the flight deck. All along the long trek on this struggle it has been people like you who have kept me motivated.
I congratulate you on a brilliantly written post. Many would know my past involvement in the fight for CVDP justice, but I have to say that in getting to know you, and having become very familiar with your personal and flying history, I am inspired by your honesty, patience and professionalism. I have no doubt that when all this conflict is over, any airline will be delighted to have you on board on the flight deck. All along the long trek on this struggle it has been people like you who have kept me motivated.
Hi Bad Medicine
I have followed the colour vision thread for some years and had come to the conclusion that over those years nothing much had changed on the world aviation colour vision scene. Indeed, following the Tallahassee accident, where the co-pilot's colour vision deficiency was given such significance that the NTSB saw fit to make recommendations to the FAA that effectively punish perhaps many thousands of US CVD pilots for the accident. If those recommendations are put into place, we can say things will get worse for many. The website discussed here is a not for profit organisation equipped and dedicated solely to making a positive difference for CVD pilots around the world. I cannot imagine a more relevant post could be made to a thread whose title is "collective colour vision thread".
I have followed the colour vision thread for some years and had come to the conclusion that over those years nothing much had changed on the world aviation colour vision scene. Indeed, following the Tallahassee accident, where the co-pilot's colour vision deficiency was given such significance that the NTSB saw fit to make recommendations to the FAA that effectively punish perhaps many thousands of US CVD pilots for the accident. If those recommendations are put into place, we can say things will get worse for many. The website discussed here is a not for profit organisation equipped and dedicated solely to making a positive difference for CVD pilots around the world. I cannot imagine a more relevant post could be made to a thread whose title is "collective colour vision thread".
Moderator
Arthur,
There is no doubt that this is an important topic, and your contribution is well known. Your website does contain information of great interest to many, but as a general rule the posting of links to sites which solicit money, whether for profit or not, is not allowed. There is enough information here to find your site without needing a link, and no attempt has been made to remove references to your site, or to suppress genuine discussion. Of course you are welcome to contact the admin team if you wish to advertise in a more formal manner.
Cheers,
BM
There is no doubt that this is an important topic, and your contribution is well known. Your website does contain information of great interest to many, but as a general rule the posting of links to sites which solicit money, whether for profit or not, is not allowed. There is enough information here to find your site without needing a link, and no attempt has been made to remove references to your site, or to suppress genuine discussion. Of course you are welcome to contact the admin team if you wish to advertise in a more formal manner.
Cheers,
BM
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It’s great to see finally a united group against this unacceptable discrimination, working together will mean getting over this nightmare that has gone way far too long. I really urge all CVD pilots to join this group, it’s worth it!
Arthur and co. I salute you all for the great effort in the last 20 or so years of battling and winning in Australia. I already know we will achieve a similar result in Europe; it’s only a matter of time.
I, myself, managed to escape recently from this nightmare and get a full clean medical/licence; it took me nearly 5 years of letters, phone-calls, visits and last but not least money (lawyers and consultants cost a lot of € $ £) but I am still upset about the way I have been mistreated and discriminated and I really want to help this community.
Whilst I cannot comment much about Australia, let’s have alook at the European skies especially now that EASA is about to take over.Let’s start with some facts (all references are from EASA part-MED):
1)Colour vision restricted class one medical are no longer issued. Like 2close previously mentioned, VCL will apply only to class 2 only.
2)Despite CAA claiming the CAD test is the future gold standard for colour vision testing, it is NOT approved to be used under EASA, fact!
This makes a CAD test result (PASS or FAIL)a useless waste of time/money - it’s simply not and approved test and UK CAA have to stop using it. It’s the law.
Now,it is very difficult to predict what is going to happen in the next few months…at least here in Europe. I personally don’t think EASA will change regulations anytime soon as there are enough and more important problems to sort out!
I would therefore assume it is safe to say that CVD restricted class one medicals are no longer issued. And this is a major problem for those who have a CPL ME/IR and work as flight instructor when their medical is due for renewal.
My personal feeling (please don’t quote me on that!) is that those that have a very marginal/mild deficiency will have, one way or the other, their restrictions lifted. Those that have a more significant deficiency might be asked to carry out a flight test or possibly even the class one medical pulled in favour of a class two. I suppose we will find out within 2-3 months what is going to happen.
Before I conclude, I would like to highlight something that hasn’t been mention yet. Something I find very interesting and I think shows the changes that slowly and finally are happening!
These are the colour vision requirement for class one/two:
And these are the colour vision requirement for LAPL:
Interesting isn’t it?
Arthur and co. I salute you all for the great effort in the last 20 or so years of battling and winning in Australia. I already know we will achieve a similar result in Europe; it’s only a matter of time.
I, myself, managed to escape recently from this nightmare and get a full clean medical/licence; it took me nearly 5 years of letters, phone-calls, visits and last but not least money (lawyers and consultants cost a lot of € $ £) but I am still upset about the way I have been mistreated and discriminated and I really want to help this community.
Whilst I cannot comment much about Australia, let’s have alook at the European skies especially now that EASA is about to take over.Let’s start with some facts (all references are from EASA part-MED):
1)Colour vision restricted class one medical are no longer issued. Like 2close previously mentioned, VCL will apply only to class 2 only.
GM1 MED.B.001 Limitation codes
VCL Valid by day only The limitation allows private pilots with varying degrees of colour deficiency to exercise the privileges of their licence by daytime only. Applicable to class 2 medical certificates only.
VCL Valid by day only The limitation allows private pilots with varying degrees of colour deficiency to exercise the privileges of their licence by daytime only. Applicable to class 2 medical certificates only.
AMC1 MED B.075 Colour vision
(c) Those failing the Ishihara test should be examined either by:
(1) anomaloscopy (Nagel or equivalent). This test is considered passed if the colour match is trichromatic and the matching range is 4 scale units or less; or by
(2) lantern testing with a Spectrolux, Beynes or Holmes-Wright lantern. This test is considered passed if the applicant passes without error a test with accepted lanterns.
(c) Those failing the Ishihara test should be examined either by:
(1) anomaloscopy (Nagel or equivalent). This test is considered passed if the colour match is trichromatic and the matching range is 4 scale units or less; or by
(2) lantern testing with a Spectrolux, Beynes or Holmes-Wright lantern. This test is considered passed if the applicant passes without error a test with accepted lanterns.
Now,it is very difficult to predict what is going to happen in the next few months…at least here in Europe. I personally don’t think EASA will change regulations anytime soon as there are enough and more important problems to sort out!
I would therefore assume it is safe to say that CVD restricted class one medicals are no longer issued. And this is a major problem for those who have a CPL ME/IR and work as flight instructor when their medical is due for renewal.
My personal feeling (please don’t quote me on that!) is that those that have a very marginal/mild deficiency will have, one way or the other, their restrictions lifted. Those that have a more significant deficiency might be asked to carry out a flight test or possibly even the class one medical pulled in favour of a class two. I suppose we will find out within 2-3 months what is going to happen.
Before I conclude, I would like to highlight something that hasn’t been mention yet. Something I find very interesting and I think shows the changes that slowly and finally are happening!
These are the colour vision requirement for class one/two:
(b) The Ishihara test (24 plate version) is considered passed if the first 15 plates, presented in a random order, are identified without error.
(c) Those failing the Ishihara test should be examined either by:
(1) anomaloscopy (Nagel or equivalent). This test is considered passed if the colour match is trichromatic and the matching range is 4 scale units or less; or by
(2) lantern testing with a Spectrolux, Beynes or Holmes-Wright lantern. This test is considered passed if the applicant passes without error a test with accepted lanterns.
(c) Those failing the Ishihara test should be examined either by:
(1) anomaloscopy (Nagel or equivalent). This test is considered passed if the colour match is trichromatic and the matching range is 4 scale units or less; or by
(2) lantern testing with a Spectrolux, Beynes or Holmes-Wright lantern. This test is considered passed if the applicant passes without error a test with accepted lanterns.
AMC15 MED.B.095 Colour vision
Applicants for a night rating should correctly identify 9 of the first 15 plates of the 24-plate edition of Ishihara pseudoisochromatic plates or should be colour safe.
Applicants for a night rating should correctly identify 9 of the first 15 plates of the 24-plate edition of Ishihara pseudoisochromatic plates or should be colour safe.
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Color Vision Standard - Advocacy
I wanted to let everyone know about a growing group of very intelligent and passionate people working to have the color vision standard overturned, or at least looked at with unbiased judgement:
"This website will show in detail why the Aviation Colour Perception Standard is wrong and unnecessary.
The arguments we make in this website have in the past formed the basis of two highly successful legal challenges to the Aviation Colour Perception Standard in Australia.
The Australian experience over the last twenty-three years since those successful challenges can become a positive example to the rest of the world.
There is no place in Aviation Safety Regulation for the confused approach that currently characterizes the Aviation Colour Perception Standard.
With your support, the CVDPA will work to achieve the same success in all countries".
Dr. Arthur Pape
Another gentleman, Pedro Ponte, has also created a website of his own for this purpose... If nothing else, they provide wonderful guidance to pilots (or potential pilots) who are going through this problem. Standards for each aviation administration are listed, as are articles, and plenty of other very useful information that most people are unaware of.
By getting involved, it would be a wonderful way for AOPA to help people out, and to gain more pilots in the population. Countless thousands have given up when their AME told them: "Sorry kid, choose a different career."
The problem with this is that it is often bad information. The AME himself probably didn't know the alternate tests available or the Operational Color Vision Test / Medical Flight test that the FAA allows. Either way, this affects 10% of the male population and .5% of female. If you ask me, 10.5% is a lot of people being unfairly discriminated against. Hopefully if you take the time to read Dr Pape's article, you will find why color "blind" individuals are NOT unsafe to fly.
Thanks everyone, and I hope this somehow helps other people out that feel alone about this dream killer. It certainly almost killed mine.
"This website will show in detail why the Aviation Colour Perception Standard is wrong and unnecessary.
The arguments we make in this website have in the past formed the basis of two highly successful legal challenges to the Aviation Colour Perception Standard in Australia.
The Australian experience over the last twenty-three years since those successful challenges can become a positive example to the rest of the world.
There is no place in Aviation Safety Regulation for the confused approach that currently characterizes the Aviation Colour Perception Standard.
With your support, the CVDPA will work to achieve the same success in all countries".
Dr. Arthur Pape
Another gentleman, Pedro Ponte, has also created a website of his own for this purpose... If nothing else, they provide wonderful guidance to pilots (or potential pilots) who are going through this problem. Standards for each aviation administration are listed, as are articles, and plenty of other very useful information that most people are unaware of.
By getting involved, it would be a wonderful way for AOPA to help people out, and to gain more pilots in the population. Countless thousands have given up when their AME told them: "Sorry kid, choose a different career."
The problem with this is that it is often bad information. The AME himself probably didn't know the alternate tests available or the Operational Color Vision Test / Medical Flight test that the FAA allows. Either way, this affects 10% of the male population and .5% of female. If you ask me, 10.5% is a lot of people being unfairly discriminated against. Hopefully if you take the time to read Dr Pape's article, you will find why color "blind" individuals are NOT unsafe to fly.
Thanks everyone, and I hope this somehow helps other people out that feel alone about this dream killer. It certainly almost killed mine.
Last edited by Bad medicine; 4th May 2012 at 23:16. Reason: Removed links
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The website of the Colour Vision Defective Pilots Association CVDPA is an amazing read.
It will cheer you up to see the massive success story and restore your hope.
There is a Wiki that we are all invited to improve comparing every countries CVD regulations. It's a real eye opener!
Arthur is offering his experience in briefing lawyers, personal guidance and funding for legal action in any country. It's amazing what he has achieved in Australia and he is working very closely with a number of British pilots flying commercially over there encouraging him to focus on the UK/Europe regs next as they want to return home to their families yet continue to fly commercially at CPL and ATPL levels.
However, all this depends on raising sufficient money from subscriptions. So join up !
It will cheer you up to see the massive success story and restore your hope.
There is a Wiki that we are all invited to improve comparing every countries CVD regulations. It's a real eye opener!
Arthur is offering his experience in briefing lawyers, personal guidance and funding for legal action in any country. It's amazing what he has achieved in Australia and he is working very closely with a number of British pilots flying commercially over there encouraging him to focus on the UK/Europe regs next as they want to return home to their families yet continue to fly commercially at CPL and ATPL levels.
However, all this depends on raising sufficient money from subscriptions. So join up !
Tallahassee accident investigation
Hi List,
I'm working on presenting a paper soon on the 2002 Tallahassee crash of Fedex flight 1478. This accident, as most know, has since become a cornerstone justification by proponents of the aviation colour perception standard. I have read the full report by the NTSB and found the surname of the co-pilot (the "pilot flying") who has the colour vision deficiency. His surname is Frye, and I would love the chance to meet him to find out more. The purpose of my research is to examine why two other crew members, who both have normal colour perception, also failed to interpret what the PAPI should have been showing them. Does anyone know Mr Frye or have a contact detail that could get me in touch with him. I am sure that he would not be interested in a public discussion, but if my private email address could be given, that would be just great. It is [email protected] Thanks!
I'm working on presenting a paper soon on the 2002 Tallahassee crash of Fedex flight 1478. This accident, as most know, has since become a cornerstone justification by proponents of the aviation colour perception standard. I have read the full report by the NTSB and found the surname of the co-pilot (the "pilot flying") who has the colour vision deficiency. His surname is Frye, and I would love the chance to meet him to find out more. The purpose of my research is to examine why two other crew members, who both have normal colour perception, also failed to interpret what the PAPI should have been showing them. Does anyone know Mr Frye or have a contact detail that could get me in touch with him. I am sure that he would not be interested in a public discussion, but if my private email address could be given, that would be just great. It is [email protected] Thanks!
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haha, no. I was looking at the medical requirements for the LAPL, and was concerned about the colour perception, to what i read, to get a night rating, only 9 plates out of the 15 needs to be read correctly, but the requirements are still the same for class 1, and that the CAD test looks like not being accepted by EASA at present
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i really find this very amusing!
to fly at night legally on a EASA LAPL you need to get 9 plates correct. yet, if you get 2 or 3 wrong on a class one/two you become all of the sudden unsafe. where is the logic in that?
i really wonder if the ice is starting to crack. No CAD at all and 9 out of 15 for the ishihara (lapl only). i would not be surprised at all to see such limits to be imposed in future for class one/two (alignment towards the FAA maybe?).
i woudnt be surprised either if the anomaloscope (german test... where is EASA based?
) limits were increased as quite often they were referred as being too harsh... who knows, let's wait few more weeks and see.
wf
to fly at night legally on a EASA LAPL you need to get 9 plates correct. yet, if you get 2 or 3 wrong on a class one/two you become all of the sudden unsafe. where is the logic in that?
i really wonder if the ice is starting to crack. No CAD at all and 9 out of 15 for the ishihara (lapl only). i would not be surprised at all to see such limits to be imposed in future for class one/two (alignment towards the FAA maybe?).
i woudnt be surprised either if the anomaloscope (german test... where is EASA based?
) limits were increased as quite often they were referred as being too harsh... who knows, let's wait few more weeks and see.wf