Kidney Stones, I think...

[Fish]

Kidney Stones,

For the past ten years I have suffered from a lower abdominal and groin area discomfort. I have been tested for pretty much everything and nothing has ever been properly diagnosed. Recently the discomfort has become an occassional severe pain in my lower back, radiating around to the groin area, along with the symptoms described here from the BUPA factsheet:

The symptoms

If a kidney stone causes a blockage, or moves down the ureter, it may cause some of the following symptoms:

Pain or aching in the back on one or both sides,
Spasms of intense pain (anywhere between the bottom of the ribs and the groin),
Bloody, cloudy or smelly urine,
Nausea and vomiting,
A frequent urge to urinate,
A burning sensation during urination,
Fever and chills.

These can also be symptoms of a urinary tract infection, or cystitis, which is much more common in young women than kidney stones. Anyone who has one or more of these symptoms should seek medical advice.

The tests that I have had have included a CT scan, Ultrasound scan, Cystoscopy (not something I would wish to have done again) and a Colonoscopy (not as bad as the Cystoscopy, but maybe that was just the effects of the drugs!!) All tests showed no sign of anything at all. No stones, yet over the last two months I have been totally incapacitated twice, having to lie down and definately showing all the signs of a passing stone. Even my GP agrees, yet there has never been anything seen on the scans. the most recent attack (today, hence this post) was accompanied by severe stinging when urinating and an almost continous urge to urinate accompanied by just a dribble of urine each time.

Anyway, any of you medics out there have any other ideas? no one here (Dubai) seems to have a clue apart from my GP but there is no evidence of stones to back up the symptoms.

[gingernut]

It sounds like you've had an exhaustive set of tests which have proved negative. Your complex case is probably a little difficult to diagnose by internet, but it may be worth asking your GP to reconsider your diagnosis, - has he considered infective causes (eg chlamydia), which don't always show up on the standard tests we perform. Could a specialist in GU medicine help ?

[CrowF15]

Stones

I had a recurrent stone problem 6 months ago and just got my medical back last week. My symptoms were the same as what you are describing except it was incapaciting for me. When I went to the ER they gave me five shots of morphine and used a cat scan to locate the stone in my ureter. Since it was a recurrent stone problem, I had another one five years ago, I went to a Urologist (FAA required) he had me go take another cat scan with the dye injected in my body. He located some more stones which were dormant in my kidneys. Then he had me take a 24 hour urinalysis which they can use to determine what causes your stones. The FAA requires the stones to be stable or removed prior to giving a medical back. I opted for lipthotripsy so I could get rid of them all together. It didn't hurt but was a lengthy process because I had stones in both kidneys and they can only blast one kidney at a time with a four week wait between treatments. Now I am on a potassium cytrate pill which is supposed to prevent future stones.

To answer your original question -- go see a Urologist and have him look you over. Get your self a filter with a screen to pee through and see if you can catch any stones, they can be really small and unless you catch them you may never see them. Have the doc give you a 24 hour urinalysis to see if you have a chemical imbalance or are dehydrated. I also highly recommending a book, Kidney Stones Handbook.

Hope this helps!

[Loose rivets]

I have asked this before, but is there any logic in drinking gallons of distilled water?

I'm not at all sure what causes kidney stones, but certainly some of the water that is supplied to homes in both the US and the UK is like liquid rock. I know what it does to domestic plumbing, and have always wondered why it doesn't cause more immediate trouble in the human urinary system.

I realize that I'm thinking like a mechanic/plumber, but after fitting a water-softener to my home, the (substantial) pipework was utterly clear in about 4 years from being very restricted.

[Global Pilot]

Originally Posted by Fish

All tests showed no sign of anything at all. No stones, yet over the last two months I have been totally incapacitated twice, having to lie down and definately showing all the signs of a passing stone......but there is no evidence of stones to back up the symptoms.

Fish,
I am not a medic of any kind but passed a stone 10years ago and know the pain and upset you are feeling. My case differed in that the pain came on suddenly and I was rushed to hospital. Stone was passed naturally about 10hours later. With no reoccurance since I consume plenty of mineral water daily to keep kidney clear of infection etc .
Is it possible that the severe pain you experienced in last two months, causing incapitation was in fact the stones being pased by you naturally? This might explain why they dont show up on any x-ray/scan! They are nasty little buggers but can be passed naturally (pain equated to giving birth I am told). If it is stones you keep developing, looking at your diet is a way forward in preventing future occurance.
brgds,
GP.

[Albert Driver]

Originally Posted by Loose rivets

I have asked this before, but is there any logic in drinking gallons of distilled water?

No, but there is logic in drinking gallons of any kind of water.

Kidney stones were a great problem for an earlier generation of pilots. Then came humidifiers and an age where water was preferred as a drink to tea and coffee, and kidney stones seemed to become quite rare. Now the humidifiers have gone, or been reduced to a dribble, and the coffee has become drinkable again, the problem may be coming back.

No help to poor Fish, though. I think he should have another scan.

[hoggsnortrupert]

Stone's:

Damn they hurt?
I do not usually visit this section.
But I noticed the bipolar thread, and as my old Dad has been diagnosed with such so I browsed and saw Fishes thread.
I have some sympathy for Fish.
I had stones on both left and right sides, I had Lithotripsy in 1998 on both sides at the same time, only in hospital for the day.
I have been stone free since.
Now knowing one has to be young and stupid to first become Old and wise, I now only have one coffee a day, and I drink gallons of H2o ( well alot) and I drink plenty of green tea.
My history was that I had stones in 1984, and had these "cut" out , then again in 1992, "Cut" out again.
It is my opinion that this problem was caused by me living in the tropics, drinking heaps of coffee, and at night plenty of the amber stuff, my poor bloody system was always dehydrated, add to this a diet of curry and rice most nights?.
Now every individual is different, but I swear by the filtered or Lite water, as opposed to H2o high in calcium content.
Now just to contradict myself I have often wondered if the body will work overtime to create calcium if one does not drink such?.
Now I also know that stones are of different chemical make ups, Ie: uric,calcium, and the other I forget but I know not to eat lots of dark chocolate,Spinach, or cashuew nuts.
If I have a night on the Amber holy water, I drink plenty of H20 before going to bed, yes you don't get much sleep, and have to piss alot, but hey, man cannot live by bread alone?.
One other thing Do you take alot of Asprin? Asprin can cause a condition called ( forgive my spelling) Papillary Necrosis, IE: a falling away of part of the actual kidney tissue, and this can present much the same, as you pass bits of tissue.
Now I am NOT a doctor, just a poor bloody "peelot", that was once as I say young and dumb.
Take care and remember H2o and green tea, still have your pints, but drink enough water to keep your water like lemonade.
Chr's
H/snort

[tezzer]

not much to add, but.

My Urologist whilst I was having Lythotrypsy earlier this month passed the time by discussing dietary changes that might help. I told him that I avoided dairy products and green leaved vegetables as per the advice given to me and his reply was "that's out of date". Seems we should drink lots of citrus fruit juice, avoid tea, coffee, and drinks with Phosphoric acid in (most carbonated soft drinks and BEER!).

My last stone (8-10mm in diameter) was broken up by ultrasound two weeks ago. It took exactly 7 days to exit, brought on by a night of steady beer drinking, and came out on four noticeable pieces.

[hoggsnortrupert]

Some more info?

Thanks Tezzer.
Citrus juice???? interesting , A Fijian Indian doctor told me to drink straight lemon or lime juice with a dash of cider vinager, said it would disolve them over a period? then upon telling the NZ Urologist this , he seemed to rubbish it! said there was all sorts of "Wierd and wonderful concoctions" but just keep the fluid clear?.
Could one of you Health pro's please coment on this, and what studies have been done to back this up?
Don't want to go back there, Info would be appreciated?
Also with some one that has, or had kidney issues, what harm is there with them taking half an asprin daily to keep the blood thin, or thinner?
Comments please gent's.
Thanks "Fish" and all the best, hope you get it sorted mate.
Chr's
H/snort

[hoggsnortrupert]

One of you health Pro's?

Come on chaps, I would really appreciate a so called Professional thought?
Citrus yes or no?
Chr's
H/snort.

[Hobo]

Fish, see your private messages.