Collective Color Blindness Thread (PART 1)
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Hi Whirly,
Long time no see!
Blinkz is right on the money. AFAIK there is no restriction for the NPPL for any colour deficit.
Bit strange that you can not fly helos on an NPPL, or do these machines require superior physiques?
FD
Long time no see!
Blinkz is right on the money. AFAIK there is no restriction for the NPPL for any colour deficit.
Bit strange that you can not fly helos on an NPPL, or do these machines require superior physiques?
FD
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Colour Blindness
I was diagnosed with a red/green colour defficiency when I was in high school, because of it I was not pernitted to join the defense forces. Now my only way is to front up the cash to get my commercial helicopter license, and i'm not even sure if that would be enough. I have failed the ishihara test and didnt score too well on the farnsworth lantern test. Is there anyone who has experienced similar trials, and if so, what was your approach to overcoming them?
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letter of proficiency
I have plans to take the falant test in the weeks to come. I hope I do well on it so I can get the "letter of proficiency" issued by the AME. However I have some questions about it...
I know that it is valid for FAA 1st class exams, and that I dont have to make the test ever again if I have the letter. Is it the same for the CAA, or the JAA or any other aviation authority where I would have to renew a possible 1st class? I mean if I take the falant once, and I pass it, I`m cleared in color vision for life and everywhere I go?
Is that enough to clear the color vision issue and be able to get an ATPL?
thanks!
I know that it is valid for FAA 1st class exams, and that I dont have to make the test ever again if I have the letter. Is it the same for the CAA, or the JAA or any other aviation authority where I would have to renew a possible 1st class? I mean if I take the falant once, and I pass it, I`m cleared in color vision for life and everywhere I go?
Is that enough to clear the color vision issue and be able to get an ATPL?
thanks!
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I just wanted to put something down here that should reassure a few people - I had really struggled with the Ishihara plates at my local optician, and was worried that I was going to screw up my class 1 because of it.
Went down to Gatwick, and passed the book no problems. It is worth bearing in mind that they use very new books (i.e. no fading of the colours) and the test is carried out under a special lamp that provides the correct colour temperature etc.
In other words, don't give up hope if you struggle a bit at your local optician.
I would also add that ishihara plates are something that a lot of people struggle on the first few times you see them. Once you know what kind of thing you're looking for (i.e. roughly what size and shape the numbers are), it becomes a fairer test. The 24 plate test is available at this site and while you shouldn't try and learn them (if you're going to fail the test then it is for a reason after all
) having a look through them so you know roughly what to expect is no bad thing, I'd suggest.
NW3
Went down to Gatwick, and passed the book no problems. It is worth bearing in mind that they use very new books (i.e. no fading of the colours) and the test is carried out under a special lamp that provides the correct colour temperature etc.
In other words, don't give up hope if you struggle a bit at your local optician.
I would also add that ishihara plates are something that a lot of people struggle on the first few times you see them. Once you know what kind of thing you're looking for (i.e. roughly what size and shape the numbers are), it becomes a fairer test. The 24 plate test is available at this site and while you shouldn't try and learn them (if you're going to fail the test then it is for a reason after all
) having a look through them so you know roughly what to expect is no bad thing, I'd suggest.NW3
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Hi PedroUSB,
I passed a Lantern Test for a CAA Class 3 medical back in 1992. The results of this test were recently accepted for issue of a JAA Class 2. However, on speaking to the CAA Medical Branch today about Class 1 medicals I was told that I will have to take the Lantern Test again at Gatwick.
So, although I do not comment with any authority, I would expect that, even if you pass the FAA's FALANT Test, the CAA would require you to retake their Lantern Test (Holmes-Wright or Beynes) for issue of a JAA Class 1 Medical. It may be worth looking at other JAA countries, as often mentioned in this thread.
Best of luck,
2close
I passed a Lantern Test for a CAA Class 3 medical back in 1992. The results of this test were recently accepted for issue of a JAA Class 2. However, on speaking to the CAA Medical Branch today about Class 1 medicals I was told that I will have to take the Lantern Test again at Gatwick.
So, although I do not comment with any authority, I would expect that, even if you pass the FAA's FALANT Test, the CAA would require you to retake their Lantern Test (Holmes-Wright or Beynes) for issue of a JAA Class 1 Medical. It may be worth looking at other JAA countries, as often mentioned in this thread.
Best of luck,
2close
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No JAA states will accept the Falant, as it is not a JAA authorised test, just as the FAA will not accept the Beynes lantern even tho it is a CAA approved test.
Colourvision is a very difficult subject since there is alot of difference in opinion in how important colourvision is to flying.
Colourvision is a very difficult subject since there is alot of difference in opinion in how important colourvision is to flying.
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Hello everyone,
its been about 2 years since I posted a message on this exact thread. As a CVD who has succeded in getting past the color vision discrimination (with a lot work) and now has an entry-level flying job, I think we should all be VERY VERY concerned about the NTSB report that come out yesterday. Its about a cargo airliner that crashed short of the runway in Florida. The FO was color defective, had a SODA, and while flying the approach got below glidepath and crashed.
The NTSB has included CVD as part of the probable cause! Furthermore, the recommendations issued to the FAA ask for more stringent color standards.
Since Pape always used the point that no accident was ever attributed to defective color vision, this accident changes everything. I think the long-term political implications of this accident are disastrous for CVD pilots (or future pilots).
It is the first time in aviation history that an accident is blamed in defective color vision. THIS IS VERY BAD NEWS FOR US!
In the US the standards might get stricter. Those with a SODA or LOC might be required to do more tests.
In Europe, where there has been hope for a change, this will inevitable stop everything. the argument: "in the US they give CVD pilots medical and they never crashed because of it" will not work any more. Furthermore, knowing the European mentality (I am european myself) they will immediately say "Let those crazy americans kill themselves by letting colorblind pilots fly... WE will keep our standards high to prevent what happened there".
After this accident I don't think the JAA will EVER relax ther standards.
The airlines themselves might decide to put stricter color vision standards during the hiring medical exam.
Either way, it will eliminate ANY HOPE of a relaxation in color vision standards. Now that all of the aviation community (from AMEs to fellow pilots to airlline executives to government policymakers) will believe that CVD pilots are unsafe, our chances of making it in this industry get slimmer and slimmer.
Sorry for the depressing post guys.
palgia
its been about 2 years since I posted a message on this exact thread. As a CVD who has succeded in getting past the color vision discrimination (with a lot work) and now has an entry-level flying job, I think we should all be VERY VERY concerned about the NTSB report that come out yesterday. Its about a cargo airliner that crashed short of the runway in Florida. The FO was color defective, had a SODA, and while flying the approach got below glidepath and crashed.
The NTSB has included CVD as part of the probable cause! Furthermore, the recommendations issued to the FAA ask for more stringent color standards.
Since Pape always used the point that no accident was ever attributed to defective color vision, this accident changes everything. I think the long-term political implications of this accident are disastrous for CVD pilots (or future pilots).
It is the first time in aviation history that an accident is blamed in defective color vision. THIS IS VERY BAD NEWS FOR US!
In the US the standards might get stricter. Those with a SODA or LOC might be required to do more tests.
In Europe, where there has been hope for a change, this will inevitable stop everything. the argument: "in the US they give CVD pilots medical and they never crashed because of it" will not work any more. Furthermore, knowing the European mentality (I am european myself) they will immediately say "Let those crazy americans kill themselves by letting colorblind pilots fly... WE will keep our standards high to prevent what happened there".
After this accident I don't think the JAA will EVER relax ther standards.
The airlines themselves might decide to put stricter color vision standards during the hiring medical exam.
Either way, it will eliminate ANY HOPE of a relaxation in color vision standards. Now that all of the aviation community (from AMEs to fellow pilots to airlline executives to government policymakers) will believe that CVD pilots are unsafe, our chances of making it in this industry get slimmer and slimmer.
Sorry for the depressing post guys.
palgia
I don't want to be the best pilot in the world - Just the oldest
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G'day Palgia,
On the face of it, the NTSB conclusions and recommendations would appear to present a setback for all us CVDs. Particularly those aspiring to get into the big jets. But I wouldn't be throwing in the towell just yet.
The issue of the pilot's colour vision was just one of four contributing factors cited in investigation. What is not stated though is whether or not his colour vision is normally able to differentiate the PAPI lights. PAPI to me as a CVD are pretty damn obvious so I wonder what the other pilot was doing whilst 4 reds were allegedly appearing before his eyes.
What also needs to be kept in mind is the large number of pilots already out there flying heavies with abnormal colour vision. If the regulators are going to stop those of us who cannot correctly interpret every plate on an Ishihara test from gaining a licence then surely they will be forced also to remove the medical of those currently flying with the same condition. That I believe is when the real battles will begin.
On the face of it, the NTSB conclusions and recommendations would appear to present a setback for all us CVDs. Particularly those aspiring to get into the big jets. But I wouldn't be throwing in the towell just yet.
Since Pape always used the point that no accident was ever attributed to defective color vision, this accident changes everything. I think the long-term political implications of this accident are disastrous for CVD pilots (or future pilots).
What also needs to be kept in mind is the large number of pilots already out there flying heavies with abnormal colour vision. If the regulators are going to stop those of us who cannot correctly interpret every plate on an Ishihara test from gaining a licence then surely they will be forced also to remove the medical of those currently flying with the same condition. That I believe is when the real battles will begin.
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Hello everyone,
Some good news for once! Today I recieved a letter from the CAA, the deupty head of the AMC. It basically outlined the differences and problems with the German and UK beynes test, but the best bit
was that they have now decided that if I can gain a full german class 1 then they will accept this as they would any other medical! Yay!
Very happy. all i need to do now is to get the medical. Wish me luck!
Some good news for once! Today I recieved a letter from the CAA, the deupty head of the AMC. It basically outlined the differences and problems with the German and UK beynes test, but the best bit
was that they have now decided that if I can gain a full german class 1 then they will accept this as they would any other medical! Yay!Very happy. all i need to do now is to get the medical. Wish me luck!
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FAA Colour Vision Lantern Tests
I'm aware that there is a very extensive thread on the subject of colour vision, however, this request is a bit more specific.
Does anyone know of any FAA AME in the UK, Ireland or Western Europe that can carry out one of the FAA approved Colour Vision Lantern Tests, as listed at:
http://www.faa.gov/avr/aam/Game/Vers...er%201/1.3.htm
I've written to and e-mailed the FAA but unfortunately no response.
Could any of the remaining USAF bases help out?????
Be grateful for any information.
Best Regards,
2close
Does anyone know of any FAA AME in the UK, Ireland or Western Europe that can carry out one of the FAA approved Colour Vision Lantern Tests, as listed at:
http://www.faa.gov/avr/aam/Game/Vers...er%201/1.3.htm
I've written to and e-mailed the FAA but unfortunately no response.
Could any of the remaining USAF bases help out?????
Be grateful for any information.
Best Regards,
2close
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For the FAA the format is that you get an endorsed medical and if you want to get the day/vfr endorsement lifted you need to contact the FAA in Oklahoma who will organise through one of their FSDOs a test at one of their FAA towers.
As far as I am aware that can only be done in the States.
HTH
FD
As far as I am aware that can only be done in the States.
HTH
FD
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Most AMEs will only carry the basics, either the ishara plates or the titmus machine (which is basically the plates too).
I'm pretty sure that you wouldn't get a AME, especially in the UK with a lantern test. I think there are only 3 places in the UK that have lanterns and they are the two main universities for opticains and the CAA.
You could try the FAA london field office, they might be able to arrange a field signal test here in the UK.
I'm pretty sure that you wouldn't get a AME, especially in the UK with a lantern test. I think there are only 3 places in the UK that have lanterns and they are the two main universities for opticains and the CAA.
You could try the FAA london field office, they might be able to arrange a field signal test here in the UK.
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Thanks very much for the replies and excellent news, Blinkz, regarding the letter from the CAA.
I'm going to give the FAA's London office a ring and see what they say.
If I get anywhere I'll update the thread in case someone else is in a similar position.
Best Regards,
2close
I'm going to give the FAA's London office a ring and see what they say.
If I get anywhere I'll update the thread in case someone else is in a similar position.
Best Regards,
2close
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Thanks 2close, I would be interested in what the London office says. I have a FAA class 1 medical with the colourvision restriction. It would be nice to have the restriction removed and to have the option of gaining a FAA ATP. Good luck!
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After expending all remaining flying training funds on telephone calls to Gatwick, New York and Oklahoma I have the answer from the FAA Aviation Medical Division.
Lantern Tests, using one of the pieces of equipment listed above can be conducted outside the USA; all that is required is that the results are documented by the person conducting the test and sent to the FAA with a request for the restriction to be lifted. The list of equipment is set in concrete unfortunately.
As Flyin'Dutch stated earlier, airfield tower tests must be conducted in the USA and arranged through the the FAA.
I have now been advised that City University in London may be able to help. They have carried out extensive research into colour vision deficiencies and have the facilities (and public clinics)to carry out advanced colour vision testing. I'm on the case there tomorrow.
I'll keep persevering with this and keep the thread posted.
Best Regards,
2close
Lantern Tests, using one of the pieces of equipment listed above can be conducted outside the USA; all that is required is that the results are documented by the person conducting the test and sent to the FAA with a request for the restriction to be lifted. The list of equipment is set in concrete unfortunately.
As Flyin'Dutch stated earlier, airfield tower tests must be conducted in the USA and arranged through the the FAA.
I have now been advised that City University in London may be able to help. They have carried out extensive research into colour vision deficiencies and have the facilities (and public clinics)to carry out advanced colour vision testing. I'm on the case there tomorrow.
I'll keep persevering with this and keep the thread posted.
Best Regards,
2close
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OASC colour vision tests
I recently undertook the Ishihara and Lantern tests at RAFC Cranwell in the UK.
I failed the Ishihara and passed the lantern, therefore it has been deemed that I am cp3 and am unable to undertake any flying branch within the airforce.
What gets me is that I was told my aptitude for pilot was extremely competitive, and medically speaking, the only thing stopping me was my failure on the Ishihara test.
Now I've read on these forums about peoples disputes with the Ishihara test and quite simply, I'm looking for some advice in this matter, or of any ideas anyone may have.
I have heard mentioned on this forum about gene therapy, though I would imagine that thats a long shot and then some!
Any assistance in this matter would be truly appreciated.
Thanks in advance everyone
BC
I failed the Ishihara and passed the lantern, therefore it has been deemed that I am cp3 and am unable to undertake any flying branch within the airforce.
What gets me is that I was told my aptitude for pilot was extremely competitive, and medically speaking, the only thing stopping me was my failure on the Ishihara test.
Now I've read on these forums about peoples disputes with the Ishihara test and quite simply, I'm looking for some advice in this matter, or of any ideas anyone may have.
I have heard mentioned on this forum about gene therapy, though I would imagine that thats a long shot and then some!
Any assistance in this matter would be truly appreciated.
Thanks in advance everyone
BC