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NutLoose 20th Mar 2021 19:34

More scum.
 
Title says it all, he should invite a few old mates around, that’ll sort the problem.


Ex-marine's home destroyed 'after standing up to yobs'




https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-tyne-56468719

Kiltrash 20th Mar 2021 19:45

Unfortunately shows why you should not stand up to 2 " Scum " and report it to the Police for action.

Oh yes just remembered that the Government culled Police Numbers.

Oh course if he (and his mates ) had caught the Scum, who do you think the courts would have prosecuted?

( need a link to a Just Giving type page ).

NutLoose 20th Mar 2021 20:52

It’s even worse :(

https://www.helpforheroes.org.uk/what-we-do/our-stories/sean-ivey/

https://twitter.com/seanwivey?lang=en

racedo 21st Mar 2021 12:04

Give it a couple of weeks when the news media have gone away and the pubs have reopened and some tourists no doubt will be visiting. Reports of "Affray incidents" will get full police attention and condemnation (just enough to make it look like they care).

Blame will be on unknown outsiders :E

Sadly because of police cuts it will just go down as unsolved.

OvertHawk 21st Mar 2021 12:16


Originally Posted by racedo (Post 11013240)

Sadly because of police cuts it will just go down as unsolved.


Apparently there have been two arrests - whether they lead to charges or convictions remains to be seen

racedo 21st Mar 2021 14:31


Originally Posted by OvertHawk (Post 11013249)
Apparently there have been two arrests - whether they lead to charges or convictions remains to be seen

I was talking of the "tourists" visit from marines and some of the perps becoming involved in affray.:E

OvertHawk 21st Mar 2021 16:39


Originally Posted by racedo (Post 11013315)
I was talking of the "tourists" visit from marines and some of the perps becoming involved in affray.:E

Ahhhhhh...

Got you.

One would like to think that Karma will indeed catch up with these individuals. (Or if karma is unavailable then a couple of carefully discrete bootnecks)



NutLoose 21st Mar 2021 23:18

He hadn’t renewed his house insurance, so the house etc wasn’t covered, some good news though is a just giving has raised 200k so should help.

https://www.lbc.co.uk/news/campaign-launched-to-help-ex-marine-whose-home-was-destroyed-in-fire-after-stand/

https://www.justgiving.com/crowdfund...p9ce_26ulsOPG0



In a Facebook post after the initial fire, he said: "We're good standing members of the community and now, because I spoke out against anti social behaviour my 5 year old boy, 7 year old girl, wife and myself were almost murdered whilst asleep.

"I want people to know that not enough is being done to curb anti social behaviour.

"People are not being held accountable or responsible.

"Help me to help you and everyone else who are becoming victims of the poison that lives in our local communities."

On Wednesday, hours before the arson attack, Mr Ivey posted on social media that his parents had been robbed when four men burst into their home.

He also said he had a run-in at the weekend with a young biker "riding like a lunatic" and saw another in the main street of the former mining village pulling wheelies and mounting the paths.

He called out groups of "young lads" seen riding quad bikes, and gangs gathering outside a local takeaway.

He wrote: "Something really has to change!!!

treadigraph 22nd Mar 2021 08:41

And he's absolutely right - anti-social behaviour from minor pains in the arse to the criminally reckless is rife. If you live somewhere where it isn't a problem, you are very lucky. The blame is put on lack of police, lack of things to do, cuts in funding - what about blaming a total absence of discipline?

Boot camp is what's needed. Round 'em up and lock them in with a few screaming RSMs for the school holidays. Boys AND girls. And I don't care if they are in their thirties and forties...

:E

beardy 22nd Mar 2021 09:47


Originally Posted by treadigraph (Post 11013747)
And he's absolutely right - anti-social behaviour from minor pains in the arse to the criminally reckless is rife. If you live somewhere where it isn't a problem, you are very lucky. The blame is put on lack of police, lack of things to do, cuts in funding - what about blaming a total absence of discipline?

Boot camp is what's needed. Round 'em up and lock them in with a few screaming RSMs for the school holidays. Boys AND girls. And I don't care if they are in their thirties and forties...

:E

I think that you will find that reinforcing bullying with bullying tactics is counterproductive. Reinforcing 'good' behaviour is much more efficient. But I don't think that you want to hear that.

treadigraph 22nd Mar 2021 10:13

You aren't reinforcing bullying behaviour, you are opposing it. Anti-social behaviour requires punishment. Good behaviour reaps reward. Isn't it so much nicer when somebody smiles and says "thank you."?

beardy 22nd Mar 2021 14:18


Originally Posted by treadigraph (Post 11013798)
You aren't reinforcing bullying behaviour, you are opposing it. Anti-social behaviour requires punishment. Good behaviour reaps reward. Isn't it so much nicer when somebody smiles and says "thank you."?

Absolutely good behaviour begets good behaviour. Bullying by a screaming RSM begets bullying by an erk. Certainly antisocial behaviour requires punishment, bullying is not punishment. It didn't work for many National Servicemen, remember Leslie Grantham and his description of his service that led to him committing murder?

treadigraph 22nd Mar 2021 16:38

I had an ex-Guards SM as a PE teacher at secondary school. Scary he was to begin with but he won our respect and by the time we were fifth formers he was a friend. My grandad was a Guards RSM - I didn't meet him but by all accounts he was OK, if a bit stern. I'm not talking about a sadistic regime of beatings and torture (I've no idea what Leslie Grantham did other than appear in a third rate TV series), I'm talking about a regime where the miscreants can appreciate how to behave properly, learn discipline, to respect others, etc. Being yelled at doesn't hurt you, no matter what the snowflakes might think. I was imbued with a respect for people, property and the world about us by my parents, teachers, friends parents etc. Quite a number of kids - and older people - are apparently totally lacking in that respect, and it would seem more so than ever before. Why might that be? A friend of mine is a teacher - he has a firm opinion on that score...

Tinribs 22nd Mar 2021 18:52

Try reading "the Veteran"

Momoe 22nd Mar 2021 19:51

Beardy et al,

This is not bullying, it's arson and probably attempted murder, not to mention criminal damage.

Using positive reinforcement has it's uses when dealing with schoolchildren, but the two out on bail are in their twenties, their time for positive reinforcement has long since passed. If found guilty, they are criminals not bullies.

dagenham 22nd Mar 2021 22:06

Having lived in New York during the bad times and the good, I can only cite the example of three strikes and your out showed results quickly.

The tactics you described donít work with the majority as they donít respect anyone. The beauty of three strikes is that after two most want to go straight and seek every way possible to avoid trouble.

at the moment the consequences in the uk ( I am back now ) donít apply, police are not local and are reluctant to act.

I cite the following.. live in a large town in Home Counties. Local plod shop is now retirement flats and nearest police office is now twenty miles away. I had a theft on my property - gave plod cctv with video and sound of perp, a name and Address. Took them three months to find him. Even went to the house to be told doesnít live here ... I managed to sort it on my own in the end.

Serious crime starts with the petty stuff, get that sorted and the rest falls into line

NutLoose 22nd Mar 2021 23:54

Agreed and the decriminalisation of shoplifting was a signal to those that crime does pay and often could lead to further crime.

J.A.F.O. 23rd Mar 2021 06:09

Shoplifting hasn't been decriminalised. There has been a change in the way in which lower value thefts have been handled but it's still theft.

NutLoose 23rd Mar 2021 10:03

JAFO...

https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/uknew...le/ar-BB1ela3Z

beardy 23rd Mar 2021 11:17


Originally Posted by NutLoose (Post 11014529)

Still a crime and liable to prosecution either by the CPS or privately and still carries a criminal record. 'effectively' is not the same as actually. And yes I agree the police and CPS should prosecute law breakers.

RichardJones 23rd Mar 2021 19:44

I try and avoid confrontational situations. However to protect love ones and my property, I'm prepared to kill or be killed. However i will go out of my way to avoid confrontation, when my and love one's place of dwelling is close, or is known to scum, or there is a danger of them finding out.

Thaihawk 2nd Apr 2021 23:55

London is becoming more and more lawless by by the day. Certain feral elements of the community do what they like and go unchallenged. Fare evasion, shoplifting in gangs, riding e-scooters where they like, graffiti and much more-including drug-dealing. The Met. police are all but ineffective. The London Mayor, Sadiq Khan appears to be on the side of the feral scum. Without doubt, crime in London has increased on his watch.

Stabbings are a regular event, and shootings are on the rise.

What is needed is zero-tolerance policing. And courts that are prepared to hand down sentences that deter crime.

treadigraph 3rd Apr 2021 08:37

There was a vigil in Croydon a few days ago for someone who had been stabbed to death. At the vigil a further murder took place. One generally knows exactly what type of people are going to have been involved. Teenage murder just down the road from me a couple of years ago - "oh he was such a lovely boy, wouldn't hurt a fly" grizzled all the comments reported in the local news - no he wasn't; well known to both the police and the social workers, he was a complete little shit as was the kid who killed him. They had a knife fight...

Another one in the last several years; I visited a friend in Mayday hospital one morning (he needed clothing so I could go outside visiting hours!) then walked through the back streets of West Croydon to Purley Way. Police tape closing off a side road, forensic tent in the middle. Usual usual...? Not this time. Big middle aged black guy with a young family and a strong community spirit had got so fed up with rampant drug dealing and petty crime outside his home, he went out to deal with it - tragically he ended up dead.

Tinribs 3rd Apr 2021 11:32

We taught a whole generation of younger people that if you are annoyed by anyone or anything you may take what ever action suits you and blame old idiots or racists or your school or the system. This younger group are now adults and have children of their own who are learning the same attitudes. You are not to blame because you were driven to it with no other means of self expression. We must learn to understand that everyone has a new right not be annoyed by anything anyone says or does and respond in whatever way suits them Until we can encourage the people to accept they are responsible not for their situation but for their response this kind of thing will continue

Tashengurt 3rd Apr 2021 13:23


Originally Posted by treadigraph (Post 11021532)
There was a vigil in Croydon a few days ago for someone who had been stabbed to death. At the vigil a further murder took place. One generally knows exactly what type of people are going to have been involved. Teenage murder just down the road from me a couple of years ago - "oh he was such a lovely boy, wouldn't hurt a fly" grizzled all the comments reported in the local news - no he wasn't; well known to both the police and the social workers, he was a complete little shit as was the kid who killed him. They had a knife fight...

Another one in the last several years; I visited a friend in Mayday hospital one morning (he needed clothing so I could go outside visiting hours!) then walked through the back streets of West Croydon to Purley Way. Police tape closing off a side road, forensic tent in the middle. Usual usual...? Not this time. Big middle aged black guy with a young family and a strong community spirit had got so fed up with rampant drug dealing and petty crime outside his home, he went out to deal with it - tragically he ended up dead.

A familiar tale. I watched a child die from a stab wound some years ago.
The local rag ran the familiar story of a troubled youth who had been turning his life around.
Complete twaddle, he'd been arrested himself for a knife-point robbery not long before his death.

clark y 3rd Apr 2021 13:52

I've also noticed similar issues with motor vehicle accidents where the crashes have been caused by individuals described in a positive light. "Johnny was such a good boy, popular, happy, care free etc". Usually by peers and relatives. The reports then go on to describe speed, ignoring road rules, drugs/alcohol, suspended/disqualified/unlicensed, unregistered, unroadworthy and quite often stolen cars.

Loose rivets 4th Apr 2021 00:23


Having lived in New York during the bad times and the good, I can only cite the example of three strikes and your out showed results quickly.
Yeh, what could possibly go wrong with that? The sickest piece of legislation that America has allowed for a long time - a country that imprisons more people per capita than any other nation. They've more than doubled their detainees in the last 25 years, well over two million people. How do they do this? They run the system to make a profit. Don't play the game and you go to hell.

Three strikes? There might be the tiniest justification in a perfect world, but in a world where a soulless cop can end the life of someone he simply takes a dislike to, for an (alleged) minor crime . . . as I say, what could go wrong?

John Marsh 4th Apr 2021 16:11


Originally Posted by NutLoose (Post 11013593)
He hadnít renewed his house insurance, so the house etc wasnít covered, some good news though is a just giving has raised 200k so should help.

https://www.lbc.co.uk/news/campaign-launched-to-help-ex-marine-whose-home-was-destroyed-in-fire-after-stand/

https://www.justgiving.com/crowdfund...p9ce_26ulsOPG0

Thank you for posting the Just Giving link NutLoose

An update was posted yesterday:

Sean Ivey
Thank you to everyone who has donated and shown their support. We are completely overwhelmed by your generosity, which has made life so much easier since the fire. Kev requested a withdrawal last weekend so that we can begin to rebuild our lives.

We have now moved into our temporary home until our home is rebuilt. My dream is to be in there by Christmas.

My wife has struggled to come to terms with what we have lost, especially those irreplaceable possessions which were destroyed, but she has been a rock for the kids.

Regarding my two little monkeys, they have been happy due to the support from so many who have donated toys, clothes, Easter eggs and well wishes. Also, due to our family and friends who have made the last couple of weeks enjoyable.

Finally, I thank you all from the bottom of my heart. I have never lost my faith in society, but this has increased my faith in the community spirit which lives throughout the whole country and the area we live in. What a privilege it is to be a part of that. My biggest wish now is to use this tragedy as a catalyst for change. I would dearly love to see each area of the country come together and use their community spirit to eradicate the poison that makes people live in fear. My family does not deserve this and neither does any of you.

Love to you all from the Ivey family.
I had been hoping that the family would be able and wanting to move away from the area. I fear they will now be more of a target than ever for the feral scum. However, moving away does seem like giving in.

I feel he's right about the need for the country to come together in a community spirit. What's the legal and effective way forward? Citizens' patrols and arrests?

All the very best to Sean, his wife and children. I have given to the fund; it's way past the initial target, but please consider chipping in if you haven't already.

N707ZS 4th Apr 2021 16:21

I took my morning walk with Mrs ZS to our local park. We stopped to observe a squirrel sunning himself chewing a nut or something for breakfast. Along came Fido with intent to kill the squirrel under no restraint from the owner. I said to the owner we need big cats to chase the dogs and a bear to chase the owners. Our once nice park has become a dogs exercise yard and toilet.

Tankertrashnav 4th Apr 2021 23:41


I've also noticed similar issues with motor vehicle accidents where the crashes have been caused by individuals described in a positive light. "Johnny was such a good boy, popular, happy, care free etc". Usually by peers and relatives. The reports then go on to describe speed, ignoring road rules, drugs/alcohol, suspended/disqualified/unlicensed, unregistered, unroadworthy and quite often stolen cars.
This may not be popular on a military forum, but I used to comment wryly about this to an old chum who had been a major in the Paras, now sadly no longer with us. We noticed that whenever a soldier was killed in Afghanistan, or wherever, he always turned out to have been been popular with officers and men alike, hard working and a credit to the regiment, and destined for great things. We used to wonder why the skivers and trouble makers and general wastes of space who were always in trouble always seemed to lead a charmed life. But then again, we agreed we were probably just a pair of old cynics!

Krystal n chips 5th Apr 2021 05:02


Originally Posted by John Marsh (Post 11022253)
Thank you for posting the Just Giving link NutLoose


I feel he's right about the need for the country to come together in a community spirit. What's the legal and effective way forward? Citizens' patrols and arrests?

All the very best to Sean, his wife and children. I have given to the fund; it's way past the initial target, but please consider chipping in if you haven't already.

It's been some time since we had one of the (many ) JB favourites, so a not unexpected return of this one.

This may be something of a revelation to you, but, what you propose is, in fact, already in place. This group even has a name......the Police.

Sadly, your subliminal proposal is more commonly referred to as......vigilantes.

Thankfully, we have legislation which prevents their emergence.

John Marsh 5th Apr 2021 11:09


Originally Posted by Krystal n chips (Post 11022483)
It's been some time since we had one of the (many ) JB favourites, so a not unexpected return of this one.

This may be something of a revelation to you, but, what you propose is, in fact, already in place. This group even has a name......the Police.

Sadly, your subliminal proposal is more commonly referred to as......vigilantes.

Thankfully, we have legislation which prevents their emergence.

In theory, yes we do already have such a group in place. It seems that in practice, their effectiveness is ever more limited to the most serious crimes.

I don't like the idea of vigilantes any more than you do. At present, I cannot think of an alternative.

Pinky the pilot 5th Apr 2021 11:25


I don't like the idea of vigilantes any more than you do. At present, I cannot think of an alternative.
I tend to agree with you, John Marsh. Indeed, from conversations I have had with people around here over time I have found that agreement to be virtually unanimous!

However, I also hear from the same people that they would use whatever force they 'deemed neccessary at the time' to defend themselves and theirs from anyone who threatened them in any way, shape and form! And in more than one case (most actually) they would if neccessary use lethal force in their defence!

"Better judged by twelve than carried by six" was an attitude expressed by a few.

Sadly, I fear that things will not improve in the foreseeable future.

Krystal n chips 5th Apr 2021 11:28


Originally Posted by John Marsh (Post 11022668)
In theory, yes we do already have such a group in place. It seems that in practice, their effectiveness is ever more limited to the most serious crimes.

I don't like the idea of vigilantes any more than you do. At present, I cannot think of an alternative.

No theory involved. However, you may wish to consider the reasons why police numbers have diminished over recent years ...

Despite your statement to the contrary, your enthusiasm for vigilantes is evidently clear. Any ideas as to whom you feel should constitute the membership of this collective of civic minded thugs / yobs ( sorry, citizens ) valiantly "patrolling " the UK's streets.........this query on the basis you say you can't think of an alternative so presumably you have a demographic already in mind.

radeng 5th Apr 2021 17:24

Thaihawk

And courts that are prepared to hand down sentences that deter crime.
Ay, there's the rub!

Many of the sentences handed down to my mind are far too lenient, in that there's not lot of deterrence and certainly not a lot of protection of the public by locking the perps up. The CPS only appear to want to prosecute if they have an enormous chance of conviction, there are far too few police partially because of public attitude to the police, pay and antisocial hours, and far too few prison and probation officers, mainly because of workload and pay....I gather many stations don't even have a canteen anymore.

megan 6th Apr 2021 03:03


Any ideas as to whom you feel should constitute the membership of this collective of civic minded thugs / yobs ( sorry, citizens ) valiantly "patrolling " the UK's streets
I reckon a group such as these civic minded folks could go a long way to help, or do they fall into your vigilante thugs, yobs definition?

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