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Originally Posted by The Nip
(Post 10560981)
This thread has been subject to a Only the British had a right to vote, whereas everyone in the 28 was concerned and are affected, and there should have been 200 million voters. This is contrary to democracy and elementary esprit d'équipe. PS: this post might include some degree of irony... * |
Nip i’ve certainly posting here more recently, and have found much to agree with FlyAi’s opinions (but not them all) for the record, much of my current thinking can be found on this website EU Referendum from Richard North who has been campaigning to leave for probably 20 years now but is thoroughly hacked off with the media and politicians botch-up of what could have been a very different story, and is very concerned about the possibility of leaving without a deal. I don’t like the idea either. Besides, from the Leave side, what happened to TescoApp? |
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Originally Posted by VP959
(Post 10560969)
Top ten importing countries into the UK last year:
Germany $91.57B China $63.38B United States $63.25B Netherlands $55.19B France $37.68B Belgium $34.65B Italy $26.55B Norway $25.23B Spain $21.07B Ireland $18.78B How did China, United States and Norway manage to import so much to the UK, if the process is so dire for countries outside the EU? And as for "bots", if I'm being included in that, the reasons I come and go are a) real life with shift work tend to get in the way, and b) this is all getting so tedious that I just wish the UK would s*** or get off the pot. Another possible reauest to the EU for extension tomorrow. If a GE is called and there's as paralysed a parliament as this one I think I'm going to have to lock the tv away until you finally decide what you're doing over there. This issue has poisoned and paralysed your political system for 3 years now and has the potential to do so for many more. A GE might not solve it. I honestly think this s*** show the UK has put on can only end with a "preferendum": IE vote 1 Leave with no deal 2 Leave with May's deal 3 Remain. Even if the UK does leave with no deal, eventually a trade agreement with the EU will need to be negotiated. The EU requirement for the backstop won't disappear after Nov 1st. |
What’s really striking is one of the key arguments used by leavers around the time of the referendum was that Brexit would be a beginning of the break up of the EU, the first withdrawal in a total collapse of the Union. Supposedly once all the other nations saw how strong and prosperous the UK would become after leaving they’d all follow suit. Well thanks to the UK putting on a total display of shambles, having economic decline, multiple governments fall, multiple defections and instability and chaos in their own governing party, not a single second movement to withdraw from the EU from any other member has eventuated. Even those countries that have more populist Euroskeptic governments are only calling for “reform”, not outright leaving the union. Even in traditionally Euroskeptic Italy a slight minority (44-41) now say it’s more beneficial to stay in the block than leave (it traditionally has been the opposite). In Ireland it’s now 93% support for the EU. So bad luck Nigel, Boris, Jacob et al. Your little scheme may or may not succeed in sinking the UK’s economy for you own personal benefit but your wider goal of destroying the EU won’t be achieved. And in terms of chaos and how far the Tories have sunk, who would have ever thought that this headline would ever be published?!: Boris Johnson just sacked Winston Churchill's grandson from the Conservative Party |
Originally Posted by Fly Aiprt
(Post 10561036)
Nice post, Exrigger,
Here is my (Bot) take : It will not affect them at all : false. Everybody in Europe would have preferred not having to deal (!) with Brexit. But after 3 years, we finally accept the inevitable difficult situation you created. They will be glad when we have left : well, err...actually...yes^^! Britain has been such a difficult, unreliable and finnicky partner, that many in Europe will feel relieved when the uncertainties you provoked are over and we finally get to dealing with the consequences. As the saying goes "Plutôt seul que mal accompagné". They don't think they will be able to treat the UK as a Non-EU member for trading as they currently do with every other non-EU country : true. We expect you will be treated like a candidate Non-EU member, and so prepare for years of discussion before establishing any treaty. That's what the transition period was for, to prevent you being outside with nothing ready. And that's why some bots here would sometimes urge you to do something before you take the plunge. * I'm also grateful to the UK: thanks to this vote the buffoon (a local Italian politician, no offense intended for leavers) talking about my country leaving the EU is now keeping his mouth shut. |
Originally Posted by The Nip
(Post 10560981)
This thread has been subject to a Yet seem to have all the answers and surprisingly are on the remain side. It seems there type of posters appear for a short time, post hundreds of times then disappear. I fully understand that everyone has an opinion, the quantity of posts seems to suggest they could be Bots! Maybe the Soros influence is spreading! Given Boris has been hogging the headlines, today's Excess has suitably sombre and funereal black to ensure the readership are in no doubt as to the calamity unfolding by the hour.......stopping short of an Excess "crusade " for all Gov't buildings to be swathed in black flags however...... https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/blogs-the-papers-49574200 Now as I've said, Oddball is my hero and we have a lot in common, but even he couldn't match JR-M........the various comments say it all. https://www.theguardian.com/politics...ing-in-commons |
Originally Posted by Fly Aiprt
(Post 10561036)
Nice post, Exrigger,
Here is my (Bot) take : It will not affect them at all : false. Everybody in Europe would have preferred not having to deal (!) with Brexit. But after 3 years, we finally accept the inevitable difficult situation you created. They will be glad when we have left : well, err...actually...yes^^! Britain has been such a difficult, unreliable and finnicky partner, that many in Europe will feel relieved when the uncertainties you provoked are over and we finally get to dealing with the consequences. As the saying goes "Plutôt seul que mal accompagné". They don't think they will be able to treat the UK as a Non-EU member for trading as they currently do with every other non-EU country : true. We expect you will be treated like a candidate Non-EU member, and so prepare for years of discussion before establishing any treaty. That's what the transition period was for, to prevent you being outside with nothing ready. And that's why some bots here would sometimes urge you to do something before you take the plunge. * The last time ANY brexit related item that was published on the front page of my news paper was over ONE month ago (30/07). People just don’t care anymore as the only likely outcome is No Deal and has been for a long time. I just feel sorry for the Irish. They have no blame and will be affected the most, especially by a no deal, so I do hope (and expect) that they will get all the help from the EU and its members.* |
When people around me are asked about Brexit, the usual response is a casual "Well err, they said they are leaving shortly or something, didn't they ?" and a politely suppressed yawn.
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Originally Posted by Fly Aiprt
(Post 10561470)
When people around me are asked about Brexit, the usual response is a casual "Well err, they said they are leaving shortly or something, didn't they ?" and a politely suppressed yawn.
It is only remoaniacs who get excersized by this now. Leavers know we are out soon so naturally are less excited by the whole shebang Thank you for reading |
Originally Posted by bpilatus
(Post 10561476)
same here
It is only remoaniacs who get excersized by this now. Leavers know we are out soon so naturally are less excited by the whole shebang Thank you for reading |
Originally Posted by bpilatus
(Post 10561476)
same here
It is only remoaniacs who get excersized by this now. Leavers know we are out soon so naturally are less excited by the whole shebang Thank you for reading |
So if the no deal option is taken off the table, we already know that the Parliament cannot (or will not) agree a leave deal, then Brexit is all but dead...
and all the aggro that we have had since June 2016, will count for absolutely nothing.... What a waste of everybody's time!! The next time anybody asks for a referendum, I hope they told to STFU! |
Originally Posted by ATSA1
(Post 10561494)
What a waste of everybody's time!!
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leave the EU without no deal The last three years has not been entirely wasted. A whole Brexit industry has sprung up from a succession of Brexit Ministers, their staff of advisor and civil servants, the oppositions too, a huge media circus, and down to belated recruitment of associated government employees to implement that which is yet to be implemented. Even work for contractors pouring concrete around the country. All good for reducing employment figures. As the dust settles, will those directly concerned be made redundant? Civil Servants have a habit of keeping their jobs. |
Originally Posted by Fly Aiprt
(Post 10561492)
I'd advise that utter prudence be exercised when calling some categories of people, lest some terms appear lacking in courtliness.
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Originally Posted by Sallyann1234
(Post 10561517)
I must apologise for the childish name-calling by certain contributors here. It is usually just a substitute for reasoned discussion. Please understand that it is not representative of the British in general, regardless of their side of the argument.
As an aside, the terms Deal and No Deal were an unfortunate choice as they bring to mind that rather infantile game show by Noel Edmunds. Though on reflection the terms may not have been stupid after all. |
Originally Posted by Sallyann1234
I must apologise for the childish name-calling by certain contributors here
Thank you for reading |
Originally Posted by Sallyann1234
(Post 10561517)
I must apologise for the childish name-calling by certain contributors here. It is usually just a substitute for reasoned discussion. Please understand that it is not representative of the British in general, regardless of their side of the argument.
No problem. |
From today's Times:
A group of the world’s leading business federations from Japan to the US have warned Britain against crashing out of the European Union without a deal. The organisations, representing four million companies from eight countries, say a no-deal Brexit would “create substantial disruption for businesses, workers, farmers and regulators” and has made them “gravely concerned”. The joint letter, co-ordinated by the US Chamber of Commerce, reveals for the first time the damage no-deal would do to Britain’s standing on the global business circuit. Companies from the signatory countries invested £48 billion in the UK in 2017 but future spending would be at risk, they said. |
Originally Posted by Sallyann1234
(Post 10561591)
From today's Times:
A group of the world’s leading business federations from Japan to the US have warned Britain against crashing out of the European Union without a deal. The organisations, representing four million companies from eight countries, say a no-deal Brexit would “create substantial disruption for businesses, workers, farmers and regulators” and has made them “gravely concerned”. The joint letter, co-ordinated by the US Chamber of Commerce, reveals for the first time the damage no-deal would do to Britain’s standing on the global business circuit. Companies from the signatory countries invested £48 billion in the UK in 2017 but future spending would be at risk, they said. It is surprising that remoaners have still failed to grasp this. Brexit - deal or no deal - is, like the Pope, infallible. |
Originally Posted by Dont Hang Up
(Post 10561599)
All arguments against Brexit, no-matter what the source, are a part of Project Fear and thereby are invalid.
No one can pretend that there won't be disruption or that we will fall off the cliff. The question is how far and onto what? |
...and there won’t be because of this endless limbo and uncertainty? Businesses can cope with change. What they can’t cope with is the present paralysis. Labour have blocked every deal. They’ve blocked no-deal. Now they’re blocking an election. It’s time for parliament to say what it wants not what it doesn’t. |
I've never been so frustrated with the whole lot of them, talk about a bunch of self centred egotistic spineless [email protected] on the opposition benches, if you do not like the idea of Brexit then put it to the country and call an election. I can finally understand Guido Fawkes's frustration.
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Originally Posted by NutLoose
(Post 10561743)
I've never been so frustrated with the whole lot of them, talk about a bunch of self centred egotistic spineless [email protected] on the opposition benches, if you do not like the idea of Brexit then put it to the country and call an election. I can finally understand Guido Fawkes's frustration.
Frankly, at this stage I'm not really too fussed which as we can't go on as we are. My preferred choice would be (c) since under the current junta that is pretty much where we're heading (no deal). Given the result of the referendum back in 2016 I'd tolerate (a) if that is the best we could get parliament to agree to. |
There is no deal acceptable to the EU that does not leave us in the Single Market and Customs Union, and subject to the jurisdiction of the ECJ, still paying for the privileges of EU membershipbut with no say on the rules which they can change to disadvantage UK. No deal acceptable to the EU is acceptable to a majority of the HoC. Many nations outside the EU have perfectly satisfactory trade arrangements, without being subject to Brussels rule, however I agree that in the short term (2 to 10 years depending on whose financial projections you believe) there may be advantages in staying in the EU.
My preference is to leave and run the UK in accordance with our own democratic rules - definitely not the May 'deal' which was not a deal in any sense that I understand, having no future trade agreement. Roll on some decision, so that we can all get ion with our lives. |
Roll on a balanced decision that recognises the risks and not just adhering to populism, ideology and slogans. I want my MP, because that's all I have at my disposal, to work his hardest to ensure that happens. Then we can get on with our lives.
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EU commission is now comparing Brexit with natural disasters and member states affected can apply for financial aid. Quite clever.
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Originally Posted by Fitter2
(Post 10561761)
There is no deal acceptable to the EU that does not leave us in the Single Market and Customs Union, and subject to the jurisdiction of the ECJ, still paying for the privileges of EU membershipbut with no say on the rules which they can change to disadvantage UK.
You're most welcome to go at the door. But - there is a but unfortunately - you won't be able to remain in the Single Market. Out is out, no ifs no buts ;-) You'll no longer have to pay for privileges you'll no longer have. That means you won't have any privilege. And you won't have any say to any rule in a union you'll no longer be a member of. Is that so difficult to understand ? Of course, as a 3rd country you'll have to apply to the EU if you want to trade with it, get into it, strike a deal with it. Of course that will take time. If that is what you wish for, by all means go ahead. Provided you are actually leaving, that is ;-) |
Originally Posted by Fly Aiprt
(Post 10561781)
Of course this is totally inaccurate.
You're most welcome to go at the door. But - there is a but unfortunately - you won't be able to remain in the Single Market. Out is out, no ifs no buts ;-) You'll no longer have to pay for privileges you'll no longer have. That means you won't have any privilege. And you won't have any say to any rule in a union you'll no longer be a member of. Is that so difficult to understand ? Of course, as a 3rd country you'll have to apply to the EU if you want to trade with it, get into it, strike a deal with it. Of course that will take time. If that is what you wish for, by all means go ahead. Provided you are actually leaving, that is ;-) However of course as we all know, EU exporters will be so anxious to protect their business with the UK, to the potential detriment of their internal market, that they'll force the EU to roll over and give in to all Boris Johnson's demands. (If you believe that nonsense you'll believe anything - but 52% of UK voters appear happy to take their chances!). |
Of course this is totally inaccurate. You're most welcome to go at the door. But - there is a but unfortunately - you won't be able to remain in the Single Market. Out is out, no ifs no buts ;-) Just asking.... |
Originally Posted by ORAC
(Post 10561805)
So, they don’t really care about the Irish border then? Just asking.... |
Strikes me this fiasco all comes down, from the start to lack of party discipline. Seems now as an MP you can change your allegiance from one party to another without re-election or not vote for your parties policies. Basically it is worse than a coalition. The poor public who voted for their preferred party now are left wondering what they voted for. This seems to be true for any political party. |
Originally Posted by ATNotts
(Post 10561800)
To put the record straight, we don't have to ask the EU if we want to trade with it, but we will have to get an agreement if we want a preferential trading agreement.
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Originally Posted by IcePack
(Post 10561842)
Strikes me this fiasco all comes down, from the start to lack of party discipline. Seems now as an MP you can change your allegiance from one party to another without re-election or not vote for your parties policies. Basically it is worse than a coalition. The poor public who voted for their preferred party now are left wondering what they voted for. This seems to be true for any political party. |
Originally Posted by ATNotts
(Post 10561812)
had he and his colleagues done so they might have thought twice before calling a flawed referendum.
Now Britain is like the dog that caught the car... |
Originally Posted by IcePack
(Post 10561842)
Strikes me this fiasco all comes down, from the start to lack of party discipline. Seems now as an MP you can change your allegiance from one party to another without re-election or not vote for your parties policies. Basically it is worse than a coalition. The poor public who voted for their preferred party now are left wondering what they voted for. This seems to be true for any political party. What’s good for the goose...... |
Remarkable and glorious hypocrisy from BJ. Apparently voting against the your own party deserves removing the whip. As if he never did it.
Unless you're BJ. Even Winston Churchill's grandson, a most distinguished Conservative is apparently an enemy of the people. I think we now have a list of 21, 22 actual patriots who care more about their country than their disjointed party. BJ as everyone who knows him is all about him. That's no secret. Yet this person is the Prime Minister of the United Kingdom. Aghast! |
Do you like Warm Weather? Steve Smith? Sane and stable (if not slightly condescending) government?
Look for the one with the kangaroo on the tail. |
Originally Posted by WingNut60
(Post 10562014)
Do you like Warm Weather? Steve Smith? Sane and stable (if not slightly condescending) government?
Look for the one with the kangaroo on the tail. |
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