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-   -   War in Australia (any Oz Politics): the Original (https://www.pprune.org/jet-blast/477678-war-australia-any-oz-politics-original.html)

Mach Turtle 27th Aug 2012 09:04

Am I the only one who thinks individual employment contracts are all right? If you're good, you'll do better than average. I can't believe Australia still has books of standard pay rates.

Buster Hyman 27th Aug 2012 09:56

500N...I'd like to see an Australia, where the Aborigines call themselves Australian. Where they walk under the same flag as the rest of us, and we don't need a tick box where they need identify themselves if they'd like a leg up.

But I'm not blind to the fact that their culture is very different from the European one's that have arrived, and that the solution is something that I simply do not have but, it's something I'd really like to see in my lifetime.

Personally, I think saying sorry was a check box that some doo-gooding bureaucrat in Canberra thought would give everyone a warm & fuzzy feeling & all our problems would melt away. Sadly, the reality is far, far different & whilst it may alleviate some issues within the Aboriginal community, it really solved diddly squat!

SOPS 27th Aug 2012 10:26

Every time you think the Libs are looking good and they have their act together, someone opens their mouth and puts their foot firmly in it!!!

EffohX 27th Aug 2012 12:22


Cookies must be enabled | Herald Sun

THE navy has intercepted another suspected asylum seeker boat carrying 77 passengers.
Home Affairs Minister Jason Clare said the customs vessel Hervey Bay "detected'' the people on North Keeling Island overnight.
They will be transferred to Christmas Island for security, health and identity checks.
August 26: Asylum seekers send "SOS" to Navy
August 25: Asylum seeker boat with 80 on board intercepted
August 23: Nauru to house 500 asylum seekers

The government says they are at risk of transfer to Nauru or Papua New Guinea's Manus Island under its new offshore processing regime, which is expected to start operating by the end of next month.

500N 27th Aug 2012 13:37


Agree re Australian but other vices have got in that won't let that happen.

I'll give you an idea re culture which someone pointed out to me. Now I deliver food and other things to remote town camps, houses etc. As you may well have seen, Aboriginal communities have a lot of rubbish everywhere which has always disappointed me. Then someone pointed out that in Aboriginal life, often Nomadic, if they threw something away, more often than not it was organic (animal bone etc) and therefore it would rot and get buried and disappear for good.
They now do the same with Coke cans and Chip packets but of course they are not organic so it doesn't rot and disappear but how do you get them to change years of culture.

Also, we build these basic houses for them in the middle of no where. On one side they build a car port (car type garage with no sides, just a tin roof). In the majority of cases, the people live sitting in the dirt in the car port with a fire in the middle. On the way back to a remote town once, we dropped off parts of a Buffalo to them in this very very remote community. They said just to drop it at the front of the car port on the hard ground. To them this was normal.

Anyway, over the years I have learn't that their normal is different from ours,
some things change for the better, some are not going to change.

Buster Hyman 27th Aug 2012 13:54

I saw some of those types of homes in Port Hedland back in the early 80's 500N. Unfortunately, they were all burnt out. Whilst they were fairly new, the people who designed them clearly didn't understand (or probably asked) what the community required in a fixed dwelling.

We were told they all burnt down because they wanted a fire in their "longe room" area.

500N 27th Aug 2012 14:04

Yep, that was one of the first mistakes we (as in white man) made because fire is how they cook whereas we thought they would go with gas or Electricity. As Clare said so well, "Just sit down and take your welfare and let use city people decide what's good for you" attitude was the cause of it.

A fair few are now made of metal frames and metal sides as plaster
and wood just don't last but they are still a mess.

They solved one problem by making the Sink, sideboard and bench top out of one piece of Stainless steel, it's still dirty but it is functional and hard to break !

MTOW 27th Aug 2012 23:29

On the news today - (and as predicted here, as I recall) - Nauru, not due to be opened for another month, is already over capacity with the number of country-shoppers... sorry, asylum seekers who have arrived here since Chris Bowen's big announcement.

You know, the one that sent shivers of fear up the spines of both the country-shoppers and the people smugglers. The one that said that "new arrivals RISKED being sent to Nauru". Pretty frightening stuff, that, right up alongside the stern letter the UN plans to send to President Assad after it learned about yet another massacre by government forces in Syria.

As Blind Freddie could see, (and has been able to see for years now), without the re-introduction of TPVs and (and a very important 'and' it is) a crystal clear message to all concerned that NO ONE bypassing the normal channels and arriving by boat, no matter how good their story is, will EVER be granted Australian residency, the system will continue to be overwhelmed by sheer force of numbers, to the point where no number of Naurus or Manus Islands will have any effect except to make the process even more expensive for the Australian taxpayer.

On the same news bulletin, reports that there is some local opposition to the establishment of the holding facility at Manus Island. Translation: the 'Cargo Cult' mentality is alive and well in PNG - they're holding out until the Australians promise them enough goodies. (I believe high speed broad band internet for the island is towards the top of their wish list.)

500N 27th Aug 2012 23:38

"they're holding out until the Australians promise them enough goodies. (I believe high speed broad band internet for the island is towards the top of their wish list.)"

Why wouldn't you, you know the Aust Gov't will bend over backwards and take one just to get it through so they are working along similar lines to the A/S.

Fubaar 28th Aug 2012 01:55

Just heard on the radio that four (!) boats arrived over the weekend, bringing to over 1000 the number of uninvitees who have arrived since Chris Bowen's oh so stern speech. As already cited above, that speech and the tough new measures that the new arrivals suffer the RISK(!) of being used against them (give me strength!) have really proven to be a major deterrant to the people smugglers and their undocumented clients. - NOT!

But wait... "SHY" assuress us that deterrants don't work. [sarc] This proves that she must be right.[/sarc]

Ovation 28th Aug 2012 02:07

Without Temporary Protection Visas there is a snowballs chance in hell of stopping the tide of country shoppers illegally entering Australia. Gillard and Bowen don't want them so that when Nauru and Manus Island are overcrowded they can point the finger at Tony Abbott and say, "we told you offshore processing wouldn't work".

The Visa system in place at the moment has a provision for "family reunion" so for every one that arrives, count on 4 or 5 coming here afterwards, but with only a TPV that won't happen.

The family reunion provisions are less onerous if the illegal immigrant is a minor, which is why we see what appears to be 30 year olds claiming they are 17 years and 11 months old.

I'm all for compassion and humanitarian outcomes when refugees are genuine, but we are being played for suckers here, and we all know it. :ugh:

gupta 28th Aug 2012 03:16

And now Bill Shorten proves he doesn't know how to live in the real world
Bill Shorten is doing it tough on $330,000 | thetelegraph.com.au


allan907 28th Aug 2012 03:27

Mr Shorten admitted the unemployment benefit was tough to live on - adding that so was his wage.

"I think it would be very difficult to live on $249 (a week)," he said. "I've got a young family, I find it hard enough to make ends meet currently and I've got a job."
Just the sort of thing that a compassionate and caring lefty pollie would say really.

500N 28th Aug 2012 03:40

What a dead set w a n k e r.

Sorry, but if he can't live on 330, plus all the other perks he gets,
then god help him.

Buster Hyman 28th Aug 2012 04:30

Sorry, but if he can't live on 330, plus all the other perks he gets,
then god help him.
God help us because he's the Minister for Financial Services, Superannuation, Employment, and Workplace Relations!!! :ugh::ugh::ugh:

500N 28th Aug 2012 04:52


Good point.

I saw him capping on on TV this morning,
he has changed so much since he took control
at the mine disaster in Tasmania and kept the
media under control with some stern words.

Now he is all Pollie gobbledegook !

Clare Prop 28th Aug 2012 05:26

He has an ex-wife that he dumped for the GG's daughter, doesn't he? Maybe he has to support two households??

Must say all the bed hopping that goes on with that lot it could make quite a good soapie in years to come.

500N 28th Aug 2012 05:42

And a lot of people support two households on a lot less than $330.


priapism 28th Aug 2012 06:10

and so it goes - what a mess they are creating.

Government to scrap carbon floor price

500N 28th Aug 2012 06:13

Talk about chopping and changing.

The Gov't is determined to hang on, hence the change ?

Saltie 28th Aug 2012 06:36

Rising cost of asylum seekers poses threat to delivering surplus

Four boats carrying an estimated 345 asylum seekers were found in Australian waters yesterday. One with 165 people was stopped near Christmas Island and taken to the island. Three boats, carrying 180 people were intercepted near Cocos Islands and will also be also taken to Christmas Island for initial health and security checks.

Read more: Rising cost of asylum seekers poses threat to delivering surplus
two morning services and two in the afternoon. I wish NSW railways offered my place such service!

Saltie 28th Aug 2012 06:37

Didn't Swan allow for 450 a month in his "guaranteed surplus" budget?

345 in ONE day???

500N 28th Aug 2012 06:45

So our country and the surplus is in trouble because of a load
of boat people, quite a few who have been picked up because
the Indonesians couldn't be bothered and asked Australia to
do it.

Maybe another clasue needs to be written into the agreement
where we agree to do their dirty work in exchange for mega $
per Asylum Seeker.

We just look so weak it is pathetic.

Andu 28th Aug 2012 07:26

From the number of boats appearing off Cocos/Keeling, it would seem the Tamils are fast overtaking the Middle Eastern country shoppers in numbers.

Talk about Hobson's choice... without having any say in the matter, Australia now gets more of the people who created the suicide vest instead of those who eagerly adopted it as their own. Not that the latter are coming in any fewer numbers than they have been (quite the opposite, in fact) - the Tamils have just turned the whole sorry mess into a 24 hour a day peak hour.

Oh, how I'd love to hear the comments of the RAN personnel ordered to follow this government's "policies".

500N 28th Aug 2012 07:39

"From the number of boats appearing off Cocos/Keeling, it would seem the Tamils are fast overtaking the Middle Eastern country shoppers in numbers."

Oh so would I.

And I'd also like to hear the head of the Navy and Chiefs of the ADF
chomping about the excess wear and tear on the patrol boats that will
need to be repaired at some point and therefore taken off line.

And of course, what happens if and when they come to their EOL
before the original expected date ? Who is going to pay for the new boats ?

The Gov't will forget all this and hope it lands on someone else's desk.


SOPS 28th Aug 2012 07:43

When is this mob of huggyflufs going to grow a pair, and say two things. You WILL be going to Naru, and if you call the Australian Navy 200 meters of the coast of Jakarta, the Navy will help you by towing you straight back to the beach. It cant be that bloody hard.:ugh::ugh:

allan907 28th Aug 2012 08:16

I don't think that, even after all the angst, this government has actually grasped that the illegal immigrant problem is causing a major problem for them.

The (temporary) bounce back in the polls graphically shows that the "people" thought that the situation had been solved - ergo the low polls previously were proof that this (and other policies) were not working.

Once the "people" wake up again to the fact that this government has bollaxed things again watch the polls head south once more.

Richardson has got it right - Gillard is concentrating too much on dissing Abbott rather than governing. Her comment to Abbott on the floor of the House once she'd knifed Krudd says it all - "Game on".

hellsbrink 28th Aug 2012 15:53

Gillard is concentrating too much on dissing Abbott rather than governing.
Does she and her party have a choice? If they have realised that certain policies are failures then there are two options:-

1) Backtrack on the policies/do a u-turn and face the Opposition making serious gains from it as the electorate thinks "WTF is going on"

2) Throw enough mud around to distract enough voters from seeing what is going on so they still vote ALP.

Which one would you do, if you were in her shoes?

allan907 28th Aug 2012 16:16

But she's been doing that from day 1. There's no substance to the woman other than to prove (to herself?) that she's better than Abbott.

The latest screw up over the carbon tax is a case in point. It's been done simply to take the wind out of Abbott's sails and to make it less of an electoral liability. If it turns around the polls, all well and good. If, in the unlikely event, they win the next election then they'll just adjust things to ensure that the money keeps rolling in - either by reinstating a floor or thinking up a new tax.

In the meantime she feels free to swing the wrecking ball with gay abandon sure in the knowledge that she and her party are hardly likely to pay the penalty and have to account for it.

The woman's a total disaster and ought to be buried.

hellsbrink 28th Aug 2012 16:20

And that points to them not actually having any solid policies at all and never had any from the start.

The u-turn on the Carbon Tax being a perfect example of that.

Hopefully, for you guys (although the repercussions of Aus policies may even be felt here) they'll get annihilated in the next election, but since that's likely to mean the tree-huggers get a bigger share of the vote it's also a worry.....

500N 28th Aug 2012 16:31

I heard something on the radio this evening re the floor price
and they were saying it was a bit complicated having a floor price
when the EU and I think the US didn't and so it was easier not to !

I wish I had caught the whole interview.

500N 29th Aug 2012 03:35

I see Julia has announced her Dental sweetener at an appropriate time
that will get voters minds off the A/S.

I wonder if it was planned this way or brought forward to put the
Agenda back in her court ?

Any thoughts ?


allan907 29th Aug 2012 03:43

Gillard and her bunch of dysfunctionals have only one aim - keep in power. So therefore I suspect that your latter option is the most appropriate.

Buster Hyman 29th Aug 2012 03:52

I guess the "Asylum entrants" will be looking forward to the new Dental plan too.

prospector 29th Aug 2012 04:14

Cookies must be enabled. | The Australian

Perhaps we will hear more of this from Larry Pickering Post.

Rap sheet reveals 60 charges for would-be union boss John Setka

From:The Australian
August 29, 201212:00AM



THE extraordinary police record of John Setka, one of the nation's most powerful unionists, finally has been laid bare, with 60 charges leading to dozens of convictions and fines including for theft, assault by kicking, criminal damage and assaulting police.

By the end of the year, Mr Setka is expected to be placed in charge of the construction division of the Victorian branch of the Construction Forestry Mining and Energy Union.

Andu 29th Aug 2012 09:10

The Pickering Post is still blocked, but Pickering's latest missive is available on his Facebook page. The first paragraphs should not surprise anyone.


Others who are commenting on the Wilson/Gillard scandal today confirmed that damaging material is coming from the Office of Kevin Rudd.

It appears he is determined to continue to destabilise Gillard. Yesterday he claimed the next election was winnable. Every man and his dog knows Gillard cannot win the next election so, what he was really saying is: "If I am reinstated the next election is winnable."
Rudd could hardly restrain himself from gloating in his media interviews yesterday.

The whole of Pickering's latest is worth reading.


Ovation 29th Aug 2012 11:05

From ABC Breaking News around 1500 EST:

The search for a sinking asylum seeker boat has been called off after Indonesian rescue helicopters failed to find any sign of the boat or survivors.

Australian authorities received a distress call early this morning, saying a boat with 150 people on board was sinking in Indonesia's Sunda Strait.

A spokesman for Indonesia's search and rescue organisation, BASARNAS, says they sent two rescue helicopters and boat to the area, but they returned without having found any sign of the boat or survivors.

The search has now been called off until any further information emerges.

The distress call indicated the boat was between Java and Sumatra, about 220 nautical miles from Christmas Island.

Three other boats carrying 500 people are known to have sunk on that route in recent years.
Another Gillard policy failure?

Keeping a fleet of Patrol boats close to Indonesia is like a line of beacons serving only to attract more illegal immigrants with their (mostly) hoax distress calls.

Is it true the only flags our patrol boats carry are white? :rolleyes:

500N 29th Aug 2012 11:36

"Keeping a fleet of Patrol boats close to Indonesia is like a line of beacons serving only to attract more illegal immigrant"

Didn't you know that it's called a Taxi Rank when they all line up.

"BASARNAS, says they sent two rescue helicopters and boat to the area, but they returned without having found any sign of the boat or survivors."

How come we always seem to find them but they can't ?
In fact, have they ever found a boat ?
(I know boats like that are hard to pick up on Radar but
they must be able to find something.)

EffohX 29th Aug 2012 11:47

Am I the only one to wonder how the Indonesian rescuers would react if they located the sinking boat and the survivors threatened self harm unless they were taken to Christmas Island rather than back to Indonesia?

In answer, I found myself saying "Hmmmm..."

criticalmass 29th Aug 2012 12:17

I would not put it past the Indonesian SAR people to have deliberately failed to locate anything or anyone...just to save the embarrassment and inconvenience of having to actually do something to assist them. "Stone dead hath no fellow" as Shakespeare so aptly put it.

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