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-   -   War in Australia (any Oz Politics): the Original (https://www.pprune.org/jet-blast/477678-war-australia-any-oz-politics-original.html)

parabellum 25th Aug 2012 22:26

It is good to see Sussex Street is obviously so concerned about the demise of the ALP and the negative reception they get on PPRuNe that they keep putting together these little illustrated 'displays' for our benefit, desperation must be running very deep by now, yet another local government lost to them. It will be interesting to see if they ever get around to offering answers to questions and any form of reasoned debate but I honestly doubt if they are capable, don't think I'll hold my breath.

CoodaShooda 25th Aug 2012 22:39

Only taken 4 years for a labor member to wake up to the bleeding obvious.

FORMER Victorian premier Steve Bracks has some advice for Julia Gillard: stop talking about Tony Abbott.

Speaking at the Melbourne Writers Festival yesterday, Mr Bracks said the Prime Minister’s fortunes would improve if she ignored the Opposition Leader - and focused more on selling her own agenda.

‘’I’ve never seen an opposition leader talked about so much - ever,’’ he told the audience at Federation Square. ‘’I would stop talking about Tony Abbott. I would love a press conference where he’s not mentioned by the government of the day. Just concentrate on your own agenda and you’d be surprised … how things would improve and improve.’’

allan907 26th Aug 2012 00:55

From the Yahoo7 website:


Do you think Julia Gillard still has questions to answer over her time at Slater and Gordon?

Yes (12593)70%
No (5494)30%

Message to Jooliar and the ALP - It's not going to go away chums.

MattGray 26th Aug 2012 01:04

Awww...the polls were wrong were they?


Poor diddums...
So which particular poll are you referring to Buster :confused:

I just mentioned three (3) of them - all of them which greatly pleased me.:D

Or did this almost immediately preceding post somehow escape you:confused::confused:

Another labor government falls.
Glad to see it!! :D

As I remarked when Can-Do got up in Qld the more that the various States get a lick of Liberal governance to remind them what life was really like under Howard the better.

And after only two short months of Newman's white shoe brigade that prediction has today become stark reality.

SUPPORT for federal Labor has jumped in Queensland, putting it in striking distance of retaining all its seats at the next election.

The latest Galaxy poll conducted exclusively for The Courier-Mail found Labor enjoyed a seven-point resurgence in its primary vote
And another one for the true blue doomsayers - also just as predicted http://images.ibsrv.net/ibsrv/res/sr...s/badteeth.gif

The poll also suggested voters were not as concerned as they once were about the Government's climate change laws. More than half of those polled said the carbon tax had little or no impact on their household budget.

CoodaShooda 26th Aug 2012 05:45

Bugger. Just wrote a lengthy treatise on why labor lost the NT election and it vanished on me. Probably just as well.

Quick summary

The entitled classes in the public service belt and the urban welfare belt in Darwin swung slightly to labor. The cycnic would say this was through self interest. It did not translate to any new seats for labor.

Just about every other urban seat across the Territory moved to ther CLP but again this did not translate into any new seats for the CLP.

The exceptions were Nhulunbuy, which is rusted on labor and Tennant Creek where the bush vote for labor exceeds the town vote for the CLP.

The remote indigenous communities seem to have finally come to realise why none of the urban centres outside Darwin vote labor.

In essence they have been given lots of empty words, significant cuts in local control and a few programs poorly delivered, too late and incapable of achieving their objectives.

The intervention played a part. But so too did the cack-handed replacement of 70 odd disfunctional and costly community councils with 7 disfunctional and bankrupt super shires.

But, overall, there is a sense that the communities have finally tired of being given spin rather than substance by federal and NT labor.

Not sure what the CLP can deliver. They were a shambles when they lost power in 2001 and have not been in power since.

Will be interesting to see if they can walk the walk as well as talking the talk.

Othewrwise you may well see the First Nations Party take the balance of power in 2016.

hellsbrink 26th Aug 2012 07:42

Asylum seekers, potentially numbering in the hundreds, have gone on a hunger strike on Christmas Island
Is that going to be the same sort of "protest" as when a bunch of illegals started burying themselves? I even sent money to "support the cause", the "cause" being the purchase of a D9 Caterpillar for them.........

Andu 26th Aug 2012 08:34

Surely it’s come to the point where a very senior government minister, preferably Chris Bowen, should go to Christmas Island and address all the “guests” there who are on hunger strike and, with a half a dozen interpreters on hand to make sure the message gets through loud and clear to each and every one of them, make it very clear that they chose to come to this country uninvited and without going through any of the many administrative procedures this country has the right to demand of any potential immigrant. If they choose to starve themselves or harm themselves in any other way, the Australian Government sees it as regrettable, but it is their choice if they choose to harm themselves, and in no way the responsibility of the Australian Government or the Australian people.

If they are unhappy with the way they are being treated, they have the right to return to wherever they came from – or to any one of the half dozen countries all but the Tamils among them passed through on their way to Australia.

In short, stripped of the PC diplospeak: you want to go on hunger strike? Fill yer boots.

As for those among the hunger strikers who threatened the crew of the car transporter (after making a FALSE distress call in Indonesian waters) unless they were taken to Christmas Island, now that they've showed they are AGAIN unwilling to abide by any rules, they should be separated from the others and deported immediately and if that is not possible, locked away after being informed that, having proven twice in a very short time that they are not suitable immigrants to this country, they will NEVER be processed for residency in Australia.

500N 26th Aug 2012 08:40

I think most would like to see such Non PC speak but it is far too up front
and the lefty socialists would not like it as it may hurt the feelings of the
A/S. Not fluffy enough for any Poly to deliver.

So it will never happen.

MattGray 26th Aug 2012 08:50

As for those among the hunger strikers who threatened the crew of the car transporter (after making a FALSE distress call in Indonesian waters) unless they were taken to Christmas Island, now that they've showed they are AGAIN unwilling to abide by any rules, they should be separated from the others and deported immediately and if that is not possible, locked away after being informed that, having proven twice in a very short time that they are not suitable immigrants to this country, they will NEVER be processed for residency in Australia.
If this refers to the MV Parsifal Andu once again, the facts do not agree with your claim.

The Wallenius Marine shipping line said that the 67 asylum seekers had not physically threatened the ship's crew.

"While the survivors' demeanour was agitated there was no physical aggression," the shipping line said in a statement.

prospector 26th Aug 2012 09:27

after making a FALSE distress call in Indonesian waters)
And what would be your assessment of the above statement??

hellsbrink 26th Aug 2012 09:36

The Wallenius Marine shipping line said that the 67 asylum seekers had not physically threatened the ship's crew.

"While the survivors' demeanour was agitated there was no physical aggression," the shipping line said in a statement.
But the Captain did fear that the situation could escalate to the point where the safety of the vessel and it's crew were at risk, an obvious conclusion to reach when people are threatening to "harm themselves" as a way to coerce the Captain into doing what THEY want, and don't forget that any action like the threats these economic migrants took is illegal due to them "intimidating" the ship's Captain whilst he is carrying out his legitimate duties.

Just because they didn't threaten direct and physical acts on the Captain and crew at that moment does not mean they did not "threaten and intimidate" either, so I suggest you start looking at things more carefully before opening your mouth and sticking both feet in it.

allan907 26th Aug 2012 09:38

So it will never happen.
There is absolute no one in the ALP who has the balls to actually front the "uninvited guest" problem.

Once they cave in to the current hunger strike mob you might as well tear up the legislation that was passed the other week.

And people wonder why this government is on the nose. :ugh:

Misogynist Nut Job

MattGray 26th Aug 2012 09:39

after making a FALSE distress call in Indonesian waters)
And what would be your assessment of the above statement??
I've no idea prospector. Zero, zip, zilch nada. Should I?

The bolding in my post makes crystal clear the false allegation I was responding to.

It has no relevance whatsoever to the quite separate issue of the distress call.

What is your own point?:confused:

hellsbrink 26th Aug 2012 09:40

And the small matter of them threatening to "harm themselves" whilst on the vessel means they did actually "threaten" the Captain and crew.

prospector 26th Aug 2012 10:02

I've no idea prospector. Zero, zip, zilch nada. Should I?
One would have thought so, you seem to have a very one eye4d biased idea's on just about every other question that has been raised on this and other forums.

RJM 26th Aug 2012 10:26

MattGray, what are the limits of your 'compassion' towards anyone who decides that Australia offers them better opportunities than their present digs, and, not bothering with the official channels for refugees, decides to simply arrive here in the expectation of being offered a new start?

What I'm asking is that since you make no distinction between genuine refugees and economic opportunists, what sort of border controls against irregular arrivals do you think we shouild have? None at all? Accept 20,000 boat arrivals in addition to our UNHCR quota? Accept 1,000,000 per month?

Please put a figure on it, if you wouldn't mind.

500N 26th Aug 2012 11:29

False distress call.

You know what, it pisses me off that these guys can do this yet if anyone
here makes one, let's off a flare, puts a false MayDay out, the book gets thrown
at them and they have sometimes had to pay the costs.

Yet these guys get a free ticket to a warm, safe environment at Gov't expense
- or Navy expense.

That report above, plane sent to find them, Navy ship sent to pick them up.
How much does that cost.

"Indonesia told Australian officials it had a search and rescue vessel available but it could not be despatched due to bad weather. They asked Australia to send in air surveillance."

mmm, does that mean that if you plan to invade Indonesia, if you do it in bad weather you would get to the shore ? I reckon a Fast Patrol Boat, a few Zodiacs with soldiers on board and a couple of nice silver foil / metal flags so Radar picks them up, a bit of slack radio communication with choice words like "Raid, Free Aceh Movement (GAM)" would get the Indonesian's attention and then all of a sudden, that boat that couldn't be dispatched because of bad weather would be there in a flash as would half the Indonesian Navy and Air Force.

This agreement we have with Indonesia is just a load of crap and let's them off the hook and Australia is being made to look like a dick.

MattGray 26th Aug 2012 11:52

I've no idea prospector. Zero, zip, zilch nada. Should I?
One would have thought so, you seem to have a very one eye4d biased idea's on just about every other question that has been raised on this and other forums.
I believe a closer reading of my posts will reveal an aversion to crass hypocrisy and myths, especially right wing myths, and especially Liberal hypocrisy being promoted as facts.

If presenting facts, rather than myths and fantasy is your perception of one-eyed bias prospector then so be it.

In this case, despite the crew clearly not being threatened, we had the genesis of yet another great Liberal myth like Children Overboard being propagated.

Like the ancient Greeks the Liberals actually believe and cling to their myths such as interest rates will always be lower under Liberal than Labor, or the Carbon Tax will wreck the economy, or that Work Choices was good for workers, or that the public voted for Little "Never Ever" Johnny Howard's GST at an election.

500N 26th Aug 2012 12:00


I'm not a one eyed Labor or Liberal supporter, but I think their is a bigger load of
"hypocrisy and myths" perpetuated by Labor (only since they are in Gov't)
and that is that we do NOT have a major crises on our hands that needs sorting out with some hard decisions, harder than they have just made based on the Houston report.

Either party will spin hypocrisy and myths, not just the Liberals.

You name me one Sovereign country (apart from Indonesia) that would sign away rights to a foreign Navy to enter it's waters at will.

I reckon most wouldn't want to suffer the embarrassment.


Andu 26th Aug 2012 12:03

I hope Sussex St pays at least time and a half for staff who have to work Sunday evenings, Matt. I heard only today that they had a demo today declaring the weekend sacrosanct. Fair suck of the sauce, if it's good for the everyday workers, it should apply to the Party employees as well.

MattGray 26th Aug 2012 12:08

Head in the sand ain't a workable policy anymore, Julia.
Well she's since well and truly destroyed that myth cooda.

Fronting 50 minutes of no holds barred intense questioning by the Canberra Press Gallery. Both preceded and followed by questioning on other matters - a total of 73 mins on her feet. Then straight into another hour of QT.

What a contrast to the cowardly Abbott who cuts and scurries from almost every presser at the first sign of a penetrating question.:ugh:

....Fairfax and the ABC will continue to gloss over the allegations....
Demonstrably incorrect claims in both cases cooda.

See for example Squeaks extensive posts above on Friday from Fairfax.

The matter also received extensive live coverage on ABC's News 24, discussed widely on The Drum and on the 7.30 Report.

No glossing over whatsoever!!:ugh:

.....but people want to believe the worst.
Obviously :rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:

The longer you avoid answering, the more you are condemned in their eyes.
And answering every last question that Australia's journalistic elite could fire at her until they sat exhausted and silent has clearly made absolutely no difference.

As the Prime Minister herself so presciently observed there is absolutely nothing which will deter the "misogynistic nutjobs" with their ''eccentric lunar right Tea Party-style" politics.

JULIA GILLARD: Will the misogynists and the nut jobs on the internet continue to circulate them?
Yes, they will.

And it wouldn't matter what I said and it wouldn't matter what documents were produced and it wouldn't matter what anybody else said, they will pursue this claim for motivations of their own which are malicious and not in any way associated with the facts.

hellsbrink 26th Aug 2012 12:09

In this case, despite the crew clearly not being threatened, we had the genesis of yet another great Liberal myth like Children Overboard being propagated.
And there you go with the same Leftie myth being perpetuated.

The economic migrants threatened to harm themselves, and that threat then interfered with the safe and normal operations of the vessel. That means that there was a direct threat against the Captain and his crew as, simply, if they didn't comply with the wishes of the parasites on board they faced the threat of seeing these parasites carry out all sorts of actions which would have not only harmed the safe running of the vessel but would have also resulted in the Captain and crew facing the possibility of having to face an inquiry into the "self harm" of these people whilst they were the responsibility of the Captain and crew of the vessel. The agitation of these economic migrants is also a factor as it is perfectly reasonable to assume that if these people did not get their own way they would then directly threaten the Captain and crew and possibly try to take over the vessel.

So point out where the threat to self harm in these circumstances is not actually a direct threat against the Captain and crew because, at that moment and only at that moment, there was no direct threat of violence against said Captain and crew but the threat to the safe and proper operation of the vessel was perfectly clear.

It says everything though, when you try to defend those who are willing to say they will harm themselves and therefore put those charged with the proper and legitimate running of a vessel into a state of fear as when people start off on that way of thinking it usually ends up in bloodshed when they don't get their own way.

MattGray 26th Aug 2012 12:25

Young Libs at universities are as adolescent as Young Labs at universities. The point is that most Young LIbs grow up. Most Young Labs get preselected.

Yes RJM, some Young Libs grow up - many don't. Believe me I know!

But lack of maturity doesn't appear to be any barrier to being voted into parliament by those discerning ever politically astute Liberals does it?

Did I just hear banjos and rednecks mentioned?

I did see a quote in the Courier Mail from someone in the NT Country Liberal Party assuring the electorate that they've gotten rid of the rednecks. They said that down here in Queensland, too; until a day after they won. Then the sound of banjos, shotguns and recordings of Joh's 'great' speeches were heard emanating from Parliament House and the policy decisions followed thick and fast (with an emphasis on 'thick')..

Well lookie here Bubba - we got ourselves a live one.

ROOKIE Broadwater MP Verity Barton has lambasted rail passengers as "icky", called on welfare payments to be stopped for single parents and couples with children, and said Prime Minister Julia Gillard and former leader Kevin Rudd should stop breathing.

Ms Barton, third-choice LNP candidate for the Gold Coast seat, also said she did not believe in climate change, wanted WorkChoices brought back and described some voters as bogans.

Ms Barton's outrageous views have been posted on her Facebook page.

The 26-year-old beat Labor's four-term veteran Peta-Kaye Croft in the state election in March.

Ms Barton, the state's youngest female in Parliament, got the nod to contest the high-profile seat for the LNP after one candidate resigned when he was caught drink-driving and the replacement candidate was dumped after photos emerged of him taking part in a swingers' club event.

Political sources last week revealed Ms Barton's Facebook offerings, some dating to 2009 and her pre-MP days as a shop assistant and Broadwater's LNP state electorate council chair.

They included:

* Sounds like you (a friend) encounter icky QR passengers often.

* I don't even believe climate change exists.

* Welfare for parents (single or coupled) just shouldn't exist. If you fall pregnant you've got nine months to save/budget.

* Is Craig Emerson (Federal Minister for Trade) drinking? Or is he always just such a d---head?

* If certain people want to reduce carbon emissions they should discourage flatulence and breathing by certain people (Kevin Rudd, Julia Gillard, Penny Wong).

* Do not listen to the bogan when it says it doesn't care about politics, for it is lying to you.
This Born-to-Rule mob are pure class aren't they? :eek:

MattGray 26th Aug 2012 12:30

Then there is their fearless articulate Rhodes Scholar Leader.......

allan907 26th Aug 2012 12:58


Yep, this is definitely where the ALP get their policies, their spokesmen and their supporters from.

CoodaShooda 26th Aug 2012 13:01


Suggest you publish a list of the journos present at that press conference.

Hardly the full cream and none of those who were working on the story for their respective media outlets.

Most of the questions were based on what those present remembered from reading the newspapers that morning.

Any accidental question of real substance was avoided.

Bubble and froth so that her supporters could crow about how tough and strong she was and try to bury the story. Good political theory from her pressers but basic analysis shows it's just more spin without substance.

I have to say that what got me intrigued in this story is that it's not being pushed by the libs. So why has it sparked your ardent support of Gillard, Matt?

PS Just a reminder that I prefer you quote me in context. It's also helpful if you use the recent ones.

allan907 26th Aug 2012 13:08

As unpalatable as it seems to the likes of Matt Cooda there's more than a strong suspicion that it's being pushed from within the ALP. Which all goes to prove that there are some in that party that still maintain a sense of decency; that can still put themselves above spin and can think straight when required and that still put the country above personality.

It's probably going to be word-eating time for the likes of Matt eventually but they're playing a dead nag anyway. One could almost feel sorry for them having their dreams and aspirations dashed on the rocky shores of reality.

Charlie Foxtrot India 26th Aug 2012 14:10

Time for Matt and his army of straw men to have a little holiday before other mods close this thread.

Towering Q 26th Aug 2012 14:42

That Tony Abbott interview on 7:30 became the 2nd most watched video on youtube in Australia, not sure what was first.

It was an appalling performance by Abbott. Not since the infamous Kerry O'Brien 'gospel truth' interview, has he had such a comprehensive drubbing.

Many of my friends who normally vote Liberal, were embarrassed for him.

These same friends would never vote Labor or Green, so it won't make a lot of difference next year, however, Abbott is certainly on the nose....I wouldn't be suprised if the Liberal Party were looking at their options, especially if there's a few more repeat performances like that one.

500N 26th Aug 2012 21:44

You just have to love this first paragraph out of The Age this morning.

"THE Gillard government has narrowed the Coalition's lead to be in its best position in six months, in an Age/Nielsen poll showing overwhelming public support for the decision to process asylum seekers offshore."

So it seems that being all nice and fluffy coesn't get the votes but Howard's harder type solution is the winner. Well won't that piss of Labour / Left / Greens.

Also thought this was interesting from the same article.

"For the second consecutive month, a majority of voters said the carbon tax was making no difference to them.
But federal Labor would still be trounced by a 4 per cent swing in an election held now, and the ALP ''brand'' received another setback with the decisive weekend defeat of the Northern Territory government, with a 6 per cent swing against Labor.

Ovation 26th Aug 2012 22:59

Time for Matt and his army of straw men to have a little holiday before other mods close this thread.
Yes....................there really is a Santa Claus! :ok:

Ovation 26th Aug 2012 23:30

Larry Pickering's latest revelation. There seems just too much detail in terms of dates, times, specific events and linkages to other parties to be something Pickering simply dreamed up.

Pickering is so specific that any one of the players he's "mentioned" would have strong grounds to sue for libel (if it's false), and while he might have no assets at risk, the temptation to punish and silence him would have to be on the table, but so far, nothing.

Pickering Post

I would think this latest chapter dispels any notion that a practising "union" solicitor as well as a partner in the law firm Slater and Gordon could continue to plead that she was "young and naive at the time".

It is remarkable that the source seems to be from political enemies from within her own ranks, with the LNP playing a dead hand on the issue. Is the campaign to destabilise her already damaged leadership entering the home straight?

Andu 26th Aug 2012 23:45

It will be interesting to see if Hedley Thomas (or any other journalist [!]) confirms any of this in the MSM. Someone from within the AWU must be the source for there to be so much detail. (That's of course if any of those details are correct.)

allan907 27th Aug 2012 01:17

Criminal elements, like small fish Craig Thomson, (who had Gillard’s “full confidence” until the bitter end) are deeply embedded in the ALP. They are protected by the ALP and their court costs are covered by the ALP via the unions. HSU’s Williamson has ripped $20 million from lowly paid workers.

The money these mobsters embezzle from innocent workers is tax exempt. It’s like taking prize candy from a kid and there are no penalties when caught.

It is the Labor system, it is the culture and it has become enmeshed in the sophisticated involvement of Left wing Law Firms like Slater & Gordon and Maurice Blackburn who have made an art form of ripping off needy claimants.

Abbott refrains from demanding an immediate Royal Commission because Gillard and her Union mobsters must never be allowed to set narrow terms of reference. My information is that Abbott will move on the unions as soon as he gains Office. His will be a Royal Commission with the widest possible terms of reference.
My bold. I suppose that we can now expect an increase in the amount of shrill rubbish that we currently see emanating from our Sussex St correspondent. The party machine must be getting absolutely terrified about the upcoming election.

As I said before - this one has got legs and it ain't going away just because Gillard tries to manoeuvre it away from the spotlight by using personal abusive language that, if used by any of us, would get us banned by the moderators.

CoodaShooda 27th Aug 2012 02:05

Now what was it I wrote a little while back?

Ah yes

The final nail in the coffin of brand labor will be the fallout from the union corruption enquiries, which I think we will find is only just starting.
Cooda 25 July 2012

Hmmm. Poor grammar. Should have said "are only just starting." :E

CFI - thanks for intervening again and keeping us open for business. :ok:
Guess I'll have to start misquoting myself, to make up for Matt's absence.

priapism 27th Aug 2012 06:10

The fact that the rabble running the country at the moment are "only" 8% down in the current polls is not so much a reflection of their appalling performance but just as much a reflection on the calibre of the current opposition.

Any decent opposition party would be 20% ahead. As much as I despise Gillard, Rudd etc, the thought of Abbott as PM is not that exciting. Will he lead the party in to the next election?

CoodaShooda 27th Aug 2012 07:07

Have to also question the extent to which the performance of the liberal state governments is affecting voter sentiment.
Newsman's treatment of Qld public servants contributed strongly to labor's vote holding up in Darwin's northern suburbs.
I understand Baillieau (sp) is hardly setting records in Vic.
If the need arose, who would you replace Abbott with?

Clare Prop 27th Aug 2012 07:07

I know little about Aboriginal politics, but from a distance it does seem that finally people like Bess Price, Marcia Langton and Noel Pearson are making headway and the paternalistic "Just sit down and take your welfare and let use city people decide what's good for you" attitude has finally bitten Labor in the bum.

Matt was amusing, would have been fun to debate with if only he would enter debate, but that was beyond him.

I wonder if he knows what a Rhodes Scholar has to be able to show to be awarded the scholarship? Did he know Bob'awke and Geoff Gallop were Rhodes scholars? Just sayin' because my granddad was one too and I don't like seeing that acheivement belittled and scorned.

500N 27th Aug 2012 07:21

A few more Aussies have Rhodes Scholarships. Sir Zelman Cowan and Kim Beasley for two.

Re Aboriginal Policy, I think it has a long way to go before they get it right
but I would like to say also that the Aboriginies need to want it as well and
that can be a problem, partly because we (as in white) try to impose on them
white values etc into Black Society. Just my HO.

I did see a good story in the media about a school that was trying to get
the kids to school every day. They ended up changing the school term dates
so that the traditional period of "going bush" and other learning fell outside
of school term dates as this was when the kids often didn't turn up.

Still think that some have been on welfare too long to come off it though.

Andu 27th Aug 2012 07:47

...and today John Howard had his own "Malcolm Turnbull moment", shooting the good ship Liberal with a well-aimed torpedo midships and well below the waterline by bringing up the dreaded "Workchoices" bogeyman again.

Even the malfunctioning rabble that is the current Labor circus will have little difficulty turning this to their own enormous advantage, milking it for all it is worth from now right up to the election.

I think John Howard just cost the Libs a negative shift in the polls of 5%, if not more.

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