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Lex Talionis 2nd Mar 2012 22:32


Ministers can come from either House but the PM has to be from the Lower House.
Cooda
I think from memory that John Gorton was leader of the Senate and the only Senator to ever become Prime Minister.

I'm not sure when the next election can be held at the latest but I can't see Julia staying as Prime Minister that long.This Bob Carr thing is strange to say the least and I think some long range plans played out behind the scenes are happening as we speak.

Is there such a thing today as a "safe" Labor seat?
I don't know about a safe seat but a least dangerous seat or he might take the easier option and become a Senator.

parabellum 2nd Mar 2012 23:10

Someone asked when was the next election due, I think the current Labour 'government' could go until September 2013 should they run the full term.

Gillard was in a 'no lose' situation when she appointed Carr, there was no way the caucus was going to go for yet another challenge, she can, for a while, do anything she likes.

Andu 2nd Mar 2012 23:57

You're right about John Gorton, Lex. When the Libs decided to put him in as Leader, he was switched from the Senate to a safe Lower House seat - (hence my "are they doing a Gorton" comment re Carr in my earlier post). (With the benefit of 20/20 hindsight, I don't think too many in the Liberal Party look upon that move in a positive light, for he was anything but a wild success as PM and in the end, did the politically unthinkable (if honourable) thing - he voted himself out of power with the casting vote after a tied vote on his leadership.)

At first glance, the Labor Master Plan seems to be: put Carr into the Senate and the Foreign Affairs slot to give him some current credibility/visibility with the electorate and, (if he doesn't stuff it up), come the next election, they can do a John Gorton (or a sort of Campbell Newman) with him - switch him from the Senate to a safe Labor Lower House seat as a (in their eyes) "cleanskin" unsullied by all the crap within Labor we've endured over the last four years.

If he could start by sorting something out with the Indonesians that actually stops to the current free for all in "irregular" immigration to Australia, (something he might be able to pull off since, as a newcomer on the scene, he may not feel limited by the seemingly set in stone current Labor policy, which even Blind Freddie can see has not worked), he might just gain some credibility with enough of the electorate to resurrect Labor's current woes.

Julia Gillard is many things, but not a fool. Surely even she can see that she can't present herself for re-election. How in the world could anyone, be they in the media or the general population, keep a straight face when she stands in front of a microphone and makes any promise about what "her" government will or will not do if she is re-elected?

"There will be no (insert whatever you like here - there are many to choose from) under a government I lead."

Yeah right Jools.

"Fool me once..." You all know the rest of that truism.

Lex Talionis 3rd Mar 2012 00:56


hence my "are they doing a Gorton" comment re Carr in my earlier post
Thanks Andu and now I know what you were getting at.I didn't know he switched to the house of Reps after becoming Prime Minister

At first glance, the Labor Master Plan seems to be: put Carr into the Senate and the Foreign Affairs slot to give him some current credibility/visibility with the electorate and, (if he doesn't stuff it up), come the next election, they can do a John Gorton (or a sort of Campbell Newman) with him - switch him from the Senate to a safe Labor Lower House seat as a (in their eyes) "cleanskin" unsullied by all the crap within Labor we've endured over the last four years.
That's the way I see it as well and a cleanskin is a good way of putting it too as if you say 'he doesn't stuff it up'.

I don't know if he can come up with a fix for the boat people or if anyone can that easily as we all know we can't turn them back because the first thing they will do when they see an Australian Navy ship will be to scuttle their boat forcing us to pick them up.Even with the pacific solution the majority made it to Australia in the end.

I think we have to play hardball with the Indonesians and start mentioning the amount of aid they get from us.

The only problem is that a lot of Australians do big business with Indonesia and they will be casualties in this type of strategy.I don't know how much we buy from Indonesia but that could be a return gesture and some short term pain might be the answer to stop the people smugglers.

Back to Gillard and I agree that with her at the helm it's a no brainer as to who will win the next election.If we know that then they know it too and if she agreed to a bloodless coup and stepped down in favour of the party she could end up with a good job on the front bench or some other sweetener.You only have to look at some of our ambassadors and know what I mean.

Lex Talionis 3rd Mar 2012 01:21

Tony Abbott meanwhile might be showing he understands which side his bread is buttered on.

He has been defending his paid parental leave scheme which will be funded by a levy (Not a tax :E) which is capped for 6 months at $150,000 on the mothers salary.

This has even been described by some back bench Liberals as the 'Rolls Royce' parental scheme because if favours the more well to do parents especially compared to the current Governments offer of 18 weeks at the minimum wage of $750 per week.

It looks as though Tony Abbott is beginning to know who he wants to vote for him at the next election.He even had this to say about the thoughts of others in his party.

'I know there are some people in our party that have trouble with it. I had trouble with it 10 years ago too.''
Not only will the mining industry want him to win but most women with high paid jobs who are thinking or wanting to have a family without losing their financial benefits.We'll have to come up with another acronym to replace former DINKS with something like PDIWKDS (Partial Double Income With Kids)

sisemen 3rd Mar 2012 03:31

Well, at least the whole situation is getting some worthwhile coverage her in windy Wellington and we're able to see what's going on - well, as far as we, the public, are allowed :E

Nice to see some pats on the back from the mods and targetted retribution rather than broad brush - thanks :ok:

Buster Hyman 3rd Mar 2012 03:38


Not quite yet Buster. http://images.ibsrv.net/ibsrv/res/sr...lies/wink2.gif

With almost all participants clearly making a major and much appreciated effort to keep this thread civil and tenable, we´re not going to let one idiot post ruin it for all of you.

Offending post deleted, poster banned.

Carry on. http://images.ibsrv.net/ibsrv/res/sr...ies/thumbs.gif

:D:D:D Well played Mods.

I agree, the thread has maintained a modicum of civility & appreciate the latitude that has been afforded.

I personally was getting a little hot under the collar a few pages back, and avoided the thread to cool off. I've enjoyed the debate & it has been interesting to read so far.

Cheers all.

Frank Arouet 3rd Mar 2012 04:20

Didn't Mr and Mrs Carr move to New Zealand to live? He would have to live in Australia to get a "representative" seat. Maybe the GG could rent out a room at "The Lodge". (nice flowers I hear). Or, I guess with his new BBJ he can commute to Canberra and back and have a Post Office box number for mail and residency purposes.

Whatever happens, it will need a by-election to get him into Craig Thompson's seat. And that's a good thing.

Takan Inchovit 3rd Mar 2012 09:44

I can now see the possibility of Carr leading the ALP into the next election. He seems to have some strong influence over the 'rabble'.

parabellum 3rd Mar 2012 10:20


I can now see the possibility of Carr leading the ALP into the next election
Carr had a lot to do with the complete failure of government in NSW, so, apart from an interest in geography is he really either Foreign Minister or Prime Minister material? Maybe the ALP should be casting their net a bit wider for a new leader. The current lot, Shorten, Cameron etc. are very tainted and with the possible exception of Smith and Chris Evans no one else shapes up:confused:

parabellum 3rd Mar 2012 10:44

on a lighter note!
 
There is a bit more than a year until the election, an election that will decide the next Prime Minister of Australia. The person elected will be the Prime Minister of all Australians, not just the Coalition or Labor.
To show our solidarity as Australians, let's all get together and show each other our support for the candidate of our choice. It's time that we come together, Liberal, Independents, and Labor alike. If you support the policies and character of the Liberal party, please drive with your headlights on during the day. If you support Julia, please drive with your headlights off at night.

Thank you, may God bless you, and God bless Australia.

RJM 3rd Mar 2012 16:30

Para - you're not alone: from Andrew Bolt's blog:

As mid-to-late year Gillard continues to lag in the polls and the sense of panic amongst marginal-seat Labor backbenchers crests. The powers-that-be roll Gillard, Carr becomes PM and McClelland is bought off with a sinecure as ambassador to Washington or something similar. Carr is preselected for the byelection in McClelland’s vacated Sydney seat of Barton, and away they go.

Farfetched? In normal times, perhaps. But there is precedent - as I pointed out to you yesterday:

Senator John Gorton served as PM for two and a half months in 1968 before winning Higgins in a by-election.

Call me crazy, but I think it just might be that the drowning Julia Gillard has grasped on to an anaconda, thinking it’s a life-saving buoy.

Takan Inchovit 3rd Mar 2012 19:05


Carr had a lot to do with the complete failure of government in NSW
My point exactly, it seems to be a requirement in the ALP CVs. :suspect:

Andu 3rd Mar 2012 21:18

To give this thread a momentary aviation theme, Carr is like most modern day airline CEOs - he blew in, stripped NSW of all its assets, rung up huge debts, planned (but never quite executed) a series of "wonderful" projects (some of which still haven't come into operation today) - and then skipped just before the kar-kar hit the fan and left someone else to carry the can. Then, without even a pause for the sake of decency, in generous taxpayer-funded retirement, he went to a nice little earner job with Macquarie Bank - the same bank that had benefited hugely from all those never quite executed NSW government projects.

Federal Labor must really be depending on the average Australian voter having a very short memory. Unfortunately, for too many, they're probably right to rely on that.

Don't you just love the spin that's being happily, even eagerly accepted by the Canberra press gallery? Carr is "eminently suitable" to be Foreign Minister - because he is a keen scholar of the American Civil War. Go figure.

Captain Sand Dune 4th Mar 2012 07:17

I have recently formed the opinion that Australia is a nation in dire need of a strong leader, but whose population is least likely to tolerate one. 10 years of Lee Kwan Yu would do wonders for this country. But could you imagine the reaction from the thousands of welfare dependant deadsh*ts and the militant unions this country is famous for?:mad:
But what is most unfortunate is that the vast majority of our politicians do not have the guts to do what it takes, but actually pander to the increasing number of Australians who think the gummint (and therefore the taxpayer) owes them a living. Small wonder we have thousands of people willing to break our laws and risk their lives in order to lock on the sweet teat that is the welfare system in Australia.
I used to think our system of compulsory voting was good. I am now of the opinion that the power of the vote is wasted on Australians.:sad:

Buster Hyman 4th Mar 2012 07:38

Captain, I think the problem is the electoral "terms". Four years is insufficient to embark on a long range plan. Pollies need their "ribbon cutting moment" every 3 years, to ensure they are re-elected.

Now, I for one think 4 years is too long for some of these drop kicks. But I reckon there needs to be a long term plan for each term of Govt. One where they'll commit to it, even though their opponent may just get their "ribbon cutting moment". Even if it is a committee made up of an equal proportion of the major party's (and a seat for the Greens for comic relief!), both sides should look outside their party politics for the greater good...oh look! A flying pig! Back later....

Pinky the pilot 5th Mar 2012 00:07


I can now see the possibility of Carr leading the ALP into the next election. He seems to have some strong influence over the 'rabble'.
An aquaintance of mine is a retired talkback radio host and mentioned the same thing when I saw him a few days ago. Though he suspects that Carr will not get the 'safe seat' in the Reps and lead Labor until they become the Opposition.

Although why Labor would promote a person who virtually sent NSW broke is beyond me.:confused:


Don't you just love the spin that's being happily, even eagerly accepted by the Canberra press gallery? Carr is "eminently suitable" to be Foreign Minister - because he is a keen scholar of the American Civil War. Go figure.
Agree Andu.
Kim Beasley (jnr) was also a scholar of the American Civil War; Was he eminently suitable as well?

To me, it is now patently clear that Labor are now 'clutching at straws.'

Bring on the tumbrils!

Buster Hyman 5th Mar 2012 00:29

I've watched a few episodes of The Simpson's, perhaps I'm 'eminently suitable' too?

dat581 5th Mar 2012 00:44

Is beggs the question, what does Carr's (and Beasley's) knowlage of the American Civil war have to do with Australian politics? Are most Americans that he will deal with silly enough to be dazeled by it? I doubt most of them know much more than North vs South and free all the slaves. :hmm:

Andu 5th Mar 2012 01:07

If Gillard had her way, she'd make us all slaves.

I must day though, that imagining Gillard in ringlets and crinolines causes me to shudder. However, she can feel free to adopt the most exaggerated 'goshawmightee' Southern belle accent any time she likes - ANYTHING would an improvement on the one she has now.

parabellum 5th Mar 2012 02:13

To be honest I don't think Carr needs to know very much!
 
Americans are NOT stupid - WITH SUBTITLES - Safeshare.TV

bob johns 5th Mar 2012 04:02

bob johns
 
I m prepared to bet you could get a similar result in any Sydney beach side suburb on a Sunday afternoon, you know? thumb in bum brain in neutral , but its not compulsory to vote in the Gud damned US of A like it is here.

Solid Rust Twotter 5th Mar 2012 04:45

Quite so. If you're trying to slant opinion you'd hardly pick those who got it right to include for broadcast. As you say, any group will have its duds.

Frank Arouet 5th Mar 2012 05:13


Four years is insufficient to embark on a long range plan
Old age is creeping up on me. I thought the only one's with a 4 year term were NSW State government. The Feds and other States had 3 years.

I'm beginning to think unelected prime ministers should be limited to one year. Like on probation, to prove their worth. Then it goes to a general election. Two terms of Rudd then Gillard is cause for nausea.

Clare Prop 5th Mar 2012 05:43

Maybe Carr is going to use his valuable historical knowledge to help his colleagues to start a war between East and West or between entrepreneurs and bludgers (Swanny's class war and politics of envy) in which case surely he should be the treasurer rather than FM.

Frank what do you mean by an unelected PM? Presumably JG won her seat in wherever her constituency is and her party have chosen her as their leader. Though it seems to me that nobody "won" the last election :ugh:

Buster Hyman 5th Mar 2012 06:20


The Feds and other States had 3 years.
I rounded up...besides, if we're splitting hairs, it's a maximum of 3 years & 140 days.

Frank Arouet 5th Mar 2012 06:52


Frank what do you mean by an unelected PM?
Sorry, I was orientating in time and space and talking of the more recent past tenure of one KRudd and the winner of that coup. But you can insert any name/ political party member of your choice.

By any means, Gillard assasinated the incumbant then went to an election on a lie, not winning the election at all. In fact The other lot polled more votes. The Independants who gave her the illigitimate power, double crossed their electorates who are notionally Conservative voters.

History will prove this at the next elections.

It's a wonder nobody has conducted a poll in those same electorates that would, if it went that way, give credibility to Gillard and the secret deals.

Buster H: Groan, not another half a year?

I rounded up too.

Fliegenmong 5th Mar 2012 08:23

High time this guy was on the ballot paper....


Andu 5th Mar 2012 10:01

If the Liberal NSW Government do put up some other member of the Labor Party rather than Carr, (which I understand is their right under the constitution), it would be another Timor Leste 'moment' for La Gillard - and major egg on her face.

Unfortunately, I don't think O'Farrell has the bottle (or the political bastardry) to pull such a stunt, but there'd be many who'd thank him if he did. The Gillard coffin can only handle so many nails before it implodes, and losing her prematurely declared FM would be another spike on its already very holey underside.

CoodaShooda 5th Mar 2012 11:30

There is precedent for O'Farrell to appoint an independent to replace Arbib.

Tom Lewis appointed Cleaver Bunton on the basis that the convention of replacing like with like only applied when the vacancy occurred through death or ill-health.

Wonder if he could find a liberal leaning independent? :E

RJM 5th Mar 2012 11:31

There's no-one in Lyne...

Clare Prop 5th Mar 2012 12:10

It's all starting to seem like a Monty Python film. Strange women lying in ponds distributing swords etc.
Foreign Minister eh, very nice!


Help help I'm being repressed

Desert Dingo 5th Mar 2012 13:01

http://www.members.optusnet.com.au/d.dingo/Juliar.jpg

Frank Arouet 5th Mar 2012 22:32

Treasurer ignorant of fiduciary law.
 
While I note personalities creeping into the discussion, I can only say they, The Labor Party, have brought it on themselves with their "hipshooting" campaigns of wealth re-distribution.

I refer to treasurer Swan this morning again "sticking it to " three mineral Company Directors when he said, Mr Forrest's comment made him sick, in that his only duty was to the shareholders of the company. Elaborating, further, his sick in the gut feeling was exacerbated when he said he, (Forrest), owed no duty to the Nation.

The Australian Securities and Investment Commission, (ASIC), the jurisdiction in which these companies lie, makes it quiet clear that;

The Directors owe a fiduciary duty to the company. It goes on to define the company as the members/ shareholders.

Swan either is ignorant to these FACTS, or understands the principle and is telling lies to further his agenda.

Either way, he is treating the Nation with contempt.

Buster Hyman 6th Mar 2012 00:15

Yes, Swan's gone from school to Uni, then lectured at Uni, before entering politics. Clearly, nobody is better placed to discuss what is "owed" to the community. :hmm:

BandAide 6th Mar 2012 00:50

I figured the jig for Labor was up when I spoke to one of my in-laws about a month ago. He and his partner (gay) were staunch laborites, banging on about work choices when I visited with them in 2006.

Now they are chomping at the bit to see the end of Labor, both in Queensland and Canberra. They operate a business, you see. After talking with them about politics on the phone the other day, I offered to send them each a pair of cowboy boots, my treat.

They're coming to visit in July, when I plan to show them first-hand what the left did to Detroit.

Rollingthunder 6th Mar 2012 00:58

What do you call 1,000 lawyers at the bottom of the Fraser?

Howard Hughes 6th Mar 2012 01:42


both sides should look outside their party politics for the greater good...oh look! A flying pig! Back later....
In my life time I long to see one of the major parties appoint someone from the opposition party to cabinet, surely not everyone on the opposing side is incompetent, no matter who is in power. Oh hang on a minute maybe I have just answered my own question...;)

Maybe Carr is going to use his valuable historical knowledge to help his colleagues to start a war between East and West or between entrepreneurs and bludgers
Isn't there already a war between the East and the West, with the West threatening to withdraw from the Union!:E

CoodaShooda 6th Mar 2012 01:53

RT

A bloody good start?

AL
I'd suggest the only difference is that Swan is the only one who never left academe (ie had a real job) before entering politics.

BEACH KING 6th Mar 2012 01:55


Yeah you really have to love people who have gone to uni don't you?
I really love the ones that have gone to Uni... and then done something meaningful with their lives...like
using their qualifications to the betterment of society, operated a business, employed someone, paid taxes, joined a P&F assn or service Club, member of a local council or some other community group.

Most politicians these days (especially Labor) live in a parallel universe in regard to their understanding of how most Australians live and want.


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