PPRuNe Forums

PPRuNe Forums (https://www.pprune.org/)
-   Jet Blast (https://www.pprune.org/jet-blast-16/)
-   -   War in Australia (any Oz Politics): the Original (https://www.pprune.org/jet-blast/477678-war-australia-any-oz-politics-original.html)

currawong 10th Nov 2018 12:40

"A job well done."

Hear hear!

It is not that long ago Victorian Police posed quite a threat to themselves and colleagues when it came to weapons handling.

And a big well done to the passers-by that armed themselves with whatever came to hand to assist. Something of a renaissance, I hope.

SOPS 10th Nov 2018 14:43

And i keep being confused...why are we letting these people in to our country in the first place? Try to immigrated to Japan as a Muslim...wont happen. How many refugees have he UAE taken from Syria , Somalia ...name your country...the answer is none.

Eddie Dean 10th Nov 2018 15:07


Originally Posted by SOPS (Post 10307415)
And i keep being confused...why are we letting these people in to our country in the first place? Try to immigrated to Japan as a Muslim...wont happen. How many refugees have he UAE taken from Syria , Somalia ...name your country...the answer is none.

Nearly all of "these" people are fine law abiding citizens, happy to have an opportunity for a new life. Remember, it is the exceptions that prove the rule.

WingNut60 10th Nov 2018 22:46


Originally Posted by Eddie Dean (Post 10307427)
Nearly all of "these" people are fine law abiding citizens, happy to have an opportunity for a new life. Remember, it is the exceptions that prove the rule.

So the REASON that we are taking Somali refugees is "because most of them are not murderous extremists intent on changing our social values or killing us if we decline to accede to their demands."
Thanks for that, now I understand.
But could you be a bit more specific, what percentage does "nearly all" represent.

Funny thing is, when taking immigrants of any ilk, I thought that you had an option to choose.

To paraphrase Ricardian's latest contribution to "Friday Jokes";

He's making a list,
And checking it twice;
Gonna find out Who's naughty and nice.
Santa Claus is in contravention of the U.N.'s 1967 refugee protocol to which Australia is a signatory.

cee cee 11th Nov 2018 02:27


Originally Posted by WingNut60 (Post 10307695)
Funny thing is, when taking immigrants of any ilk, I thought that you had an option to choose.

He came into the country at around 10 years old (from news article, born 1988, emmirated 90s). If your prognostic abilities can pinpoint which ten-year-old will become a criminal when he grows up, we will be able to save a lot on policing.

I noticed that most muslim radicals were either born in Australia or came as a young child. That means that it doesn't matter who or whether you let anyone in or not, the trouble is home grown. In fact we are now seeing the mirror image issue in the radicalisation of young white males attempting to take hold of mainstream society during the recent Young Nationals resignations.

And before anyone suggests that the latter group is not going to start terrorist attacks, those events happen in the US (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Terror...nti-government) and even Norway (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2011_N...eligious_views)

The common thread is not what religion you are, nor which side of the political spectrum you are on. It is extremism and radicalisation. It is demonization of the other side. And if you fall into the trap of thinking that way, while you may not start an incident yourself, the enspousing of your views may push a mentally unstable person into action, and the normalization of such views can lead to national atrocities (eg Germany during WW2).

currawong 11th Nov 2018 02:40

"the enspousing of your views may push a mentally unstable person into action"

So the real problem is free speech?

WingNut60 11th Nov 2018 02:42


Originally Posted by cee cee (Post 10307807)
He came into the country at around 10 years old (from news article, born 1988, emmirated 90s). If your prognostic abilities can pinpoint which ten-year-old will become a criminal when he grows up, we will be able to save a lot on policing.

I noticed that most muslim radicals were either born in Australia or came as a young child. That means that it doesn't matter who or whether you let anyone in or not, the trouble is home grown. In fact we are now seeing the mirror image issue in the radicalisation of young white males attempting to take hold of mainstream society during the recent Young Nationals resignations.

And before anyone suggests that the latter group is not going to start terrorist attacks, those events happen in the US (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Terror...nti-government) and even Norway (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2011_N...eligious_views)

The common thread is not what religion you are, nor which side of the political spectrum you are on. It is extremism and radicalisation. It is demonization of the other side. And if you fall into the trap of thinking that way, while you may not start an incident yourself, the enspousing of your views may push a mentally unstable person into action, and the normalization of such views can lead to national atrocities (eg Germany during WW2).

I was not talking at the level of individuals.
The original question from SOPS asked why we are /were taking Somali refugees at all. That is what I also am talking about.

Vietnam, Iraq: we have what I perceive as being a moral obligation to clean up some of the mess to which we contributed.
But Somalia? Really?
What is / was our obligation there?

cee cee 12th Nov 2018 14:22


Originally Posted by currawong (Post 10307810)
"the enspousing of your views may push a mentally unstable person into action"

So the real problem is free speech?

Not quite so simple. Free speech is neither absolute nor without limitations or consequences. Otherwise those who are radicalising the current crop of terrorists can claim the same defense.

What I was talking about though was a reflection on our own words and actions that, even if they are true and correct, may cause our own weaker members to stumble. This is actually a Christian pinciple Paul talked about in 1 Cor 8, applied to a different issue pertinent to that time.
" Be careful, however, that the exercise of your rights does not become a stumbling block to the weak. " 1 Cor 8:9

I am not saying that all discussions on the background of the terrorists and their motivations are taboo. I agree that in some circumstances (but not generally), political correctness has gone too far. But to me, there is no difference between a white preacher or MP on his pulpit/platform claming Islam is a religion of violence vs imans saying that Australians/Americans are terrorists/murderers. Both statements are arguably true in some sense, but both will become stumbling blocks to the weak in each group.

Eddie Dean 12th Nov 2018 14:25


Originally Posted by cee cee (Post 10309067)
Not quite so simple. Free speech is neither absolute nor without limitations or consequences. Otherwise those who are radicalising the current crop of terrorists can claim the same defense.

What I was talking about though was a reflection on our own words and actions that, even if they are true and correct, may cause our own weaker members to stumble. This is actually a Christian pinciple Paul talked about in 1 Cor 8, applied to a different issue pertinent to that time.
" Be careful, however, that the exercise of your rights does not become a stumbling block to the weak. " 1 Cor 8:9

I am not saying that all discussions on the background of the terrorists and their motivations are taboo. I agree that in some circumstances (but not generally), political correctness has gone too far. But to me, there is no difference between a white preacher or MP on his pulpit/platform claming Islam is a religion of violence vs imans saying that Australians/Americans are terrorists/murderers. Both statements are arguably true in some sense, but both will become stumbling blocks to the weak in each group.

i agree with your sentiments.


All times are GMT. The time now is 21:00.


Copyright 2021 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.