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Eddie Dean 27th Aug 2018 22:06


Originally Posted by Hempy (Post 10234683)
I think, as a country, we are fed up with ‘extremism’. Political or otherwise.

Fair point, but I wouldn't call the political mechanations extremism. Having said that I don't know what to call it.
Some seem concerned that Morrison belongs to that fundamentalist church on the Hill, in my opinion that would help make the man more empathetic to the man in the street.

FWIW Cheers

Crownstay01 28th Aug 2018 00:43

How do you think belonging to Hillsong would make someone like Morrison more empathetic?

Ascend Charlie 28th Aug 2018 02:26

The cartoons depicting Dutton as a potato are just SO accurate!

Eddie Dean 28th Aug 2018 06:19


Originally Posted by Crownstay01 (Post 10234879)
How do you think belonging to Hillsong would make someone like Morrison more empathetic?

Do you think a man of faith would not have empathy?
I believe it would.
FWIW Cheers

chuboy 28th Aug 2018 08:00

Osama bin Laden was also a faithful man.

Eddie Dean 28th Aug 2018 10:00


Originally Posted by chuboy (Post 10235079)
Osama bin Laden was also a faithful man.

My Muslim friend assures me that Osama was not a man of faith. Taking of life is not part of the Quran nor any other Muslim dictate.

FWIW Cheers

Crownstay01 28th Aug 2018 13:10


Originally Posted by Eddie Dean (Post 10235003)
Do you think a man of faith would not have empathy? I believe it would.

I know what I think. I'm asking you WHY you think as you do.

le Pingouin 28th Aug 2018 13:20

Religious belief very definitely does not imply empathy. Doubly so when mixed with fundamentalist religion. Doubly so again when mixed with right-wing politics.

chuboy 28th Aug 2018 21:55


Originally Posted by Eddie Dean (Post 10235169)
My Muslim friend assures me that Osama was not a man of faith. Taking of life is not part of the Quran nor any other Muslim dictate.

FWIW Cheers

"Osama did nothing wrong" is not exactly something you say in polite company!

Eddie Dean 29th Aug 2018 02:11


Originally Posted by chuboy (Post 10235771)
"Osama did nothing wrong" is not exactly something you say in polite company!

Of course he was a criminal, which makes him not a man of faith by any stretch.
FWIW

Eddie Dean 29th Aug 2018 21:54

Interesting insider take on the Liberal Parties leadership ructions:
Julia Banks has some 'home truths' for the Liberal Party, but they point to a bigger problem - Politics - ABC News (Australian Broadcasting Corporation)

bob2s 29th Aug 2018 22:27

At the end of her statement she writes,- I will keep fighting for gender equality.- Bugger that ,how about we select the BEST person, male or female to do the job

parabellum 30th Aug 2018 01:18


This is the ugly aftermath of a brutal and badly executed political assassination.
At least the ABC are consistent, they consistently misreport anything to do with the LNP.

Turnbull himself is probably guilty of the worst assassination when he knifed Tony Abbott, at a time only Turnbull, the left leaning press and his left leaning colleagues in the party thought a change was necessary. Abbott wins an election with fourteen seats to spare, Turnbull, the PM through chicanery, then loses them all bar one.
Julia Banks is leaving because the boundaries have been redrawn and unless the LNP could work a miracle she was set to lose her seat anyway, so she has thrown her weight behind some popular feminist crusades in an attempt to make her departure look like a laudable act of principle.

le Pingouin 30th Aug 2018 04:02

How is "This is the ugly aftermath of a brutal and badly executed political assassination" misreporting? It's making no comment about what Turnbull did to Abbott (or what Abbott did to Turnbull before that). It was poorly executed - Dutton didn't have the numbers. Or are you claiming the aim wasn't really to have Dutton as leader?

De_flieger 30th Aug 2018 07:31


Originally Posted by parabellum (Post 10236838)
At least the ABC are consistent, they consistently misreport anything to do with the LNP.

If you don't like the ABC, how about News Limited's take on it? Unless they're a bunch of misreporting rabid lefties too? Here's one of their articles on the toppling of Turnbull by Morrison Amateur hour’: Inside Peter Dutton’s dud coup and the damage it’s caused
A few choice quotes from the article:

LAST week’s attempted coup by Peter Dutton was one of the “messiest” and amateurish political displays Australia has seen in modern times, experts say.
and one of the article's quoted experts:

“Dutton doesn’t seem very bright, let’s face it, but you’d think he would’ve had better advice on how to execute the whole thing.”
News Limited aren't exactly complimenting Dutton on a job well done either. They (News Limited) even point out that as preferred Prime Minister, Dutton polls around the 5% mark, so significantly worse than either Bishop, Morrison or Shorten.

le Pingouin 30th Aug 2018 07:41

Dutton and supporters forgot that there's a whole world outside their little mirrored reality bubble with Sky News and 2GB piped 24 hour on high rotation.

DutchRoll 30th Aug 2018 08:37


Originally Posted by bob2s (Post 10236785)
At the end of her statement she writes,- I will keep fighting for gender equality.- Bugger that ,how about we select the BEST person, male or female to do the job

"Gender equality" actually means basically that, though the term has been hijacked and misinterpreted by various political interests.

Being married to a professional woman making her way in a male dominated profession, I can tell you exactly what it's like when a woman with the right qualifications and a track record of high level competency (in her case documented to be above her male peers in many areas) gets totally shafted by a boys club. I can also tell you what it's like to have the boys club gang up on her after levelling false allegations (proven to be false by 6 month independent investigation at taxpayer expense) by a bloke who won't take directions from a woman, and then being physically stood over in the exact manner alleged by the female pollies, and then having her complaint totally ignored by the boys club. This type of behaviour takes a significant personal toll.

Basically, true "gender equality" is all about boys clubs not behaving like a total pack of pri*ks when women enter into their working world, and I'm pretty sure that's what she was talking about from listening to her statements on the matter. It is a unique perspective when you personally see these things happen to a wife, daughter or other professional female family members, I assure you, and it seems the Federal Liberal Party have issues in this respect.

le Pingouin 30th Aug 2018 08:49

DutchRoll, very well said :D :ok:

WingNut60 30th Aug 2018 13:18


Originally Posted by parabellum (Post 10236838)
.......... Abbott wins an election with fourteen seats to spare, Turnbull, the PM through chicanery, then loses them all bar one.
......

As per my earlier post, Blind Freddie could have taken that election with fourteen seats after the Julia / Kevin charade.
Tony did f....all to win that election. It was given to him.
The voting public wanted Labor OUT! And they expressed themselves emphatically.
They were sick and tired of the Labor shenanigans.

And within weeks it was obvious (maybe right from the start) that Tony was not going to be the man to lead them into the next election.
Undoubtedly Malcolm over-estimated his appeal. But don't under-estimate the extent to which Tony contributed to the trimming back of the fourteen seats.

And now the Gillard / Rudd show has been replicated by the Liberals.

Malcolm may well have lost the next election by his own accord.
But the upcoming massacre lies firmly by the hand of the Liberal left....oops. I meant RIGHT.

le Pingouin 30th Aug 2018 14:39

Except that the Liberal right still doesn't smell any better than it did under Abbott (maybe worse given what's just occurred) and they've alienated a heap of the more moderate Lib supporters to boot. A loss has been turned into a massacre by the right. You might get a few voters back who defected to One Nation and such but that's small beer.

Crownstay01 30th Aug 2018 14:49


Originally Posted by parabellum (Post 10236838)
...the left leaning press...

Would that be the "left leaning press" owned by News Limited/Citizen Rupert? Fairfax? Macquarie Media? Channel 7, 9 and 10?

Mainstream media in Australia is only considered left-wing by fringe right neurotics.

DutchRoll 30th Aug 2018 23:56


Originally Posted by parabellum (Post 10236838)
....... so she has thrown her weight behind some popular feminist crusades in an attempt to make her departure look like a laudable act of principle.

Bullying and standover tactics applied by blokes against women trying to make it in male dominated areas is not a figment of the imagination or a "popular crusade". Anyone who thinks it is really needs some life experience with female loved ones heading into these areas to see what it's really like. As my wife says, who made it despite being on the receiving end of this behaviour numerous times, and despite (and probably partly because of) outperforming many of her male peers: "they actually don't have the faintest clue" (referring to guys who think it's rare or just some feminist invention).

And yeah, the SMH/Age are pretty much the only press which might be considered left leaning (and I'd argue it's centre-left). The Australian, Sun-Herald, and Daily Telegraph are so far to the right that I'm surprised they haven't fallen off the right hand edge of the Earth yet. Their related newspapers in other cities are very close behind and seem to be trying to outcompete them. Then there's Ray Hadley and Alan Jones, who make the average right wing conservative look like a tree-hugging hippie. The free to air TV channels can swing either way, and of course there's Sky News, who would give Genghis Khan his own talk show if he were alive today.

Eddie Dean 31st Aug 2018 04:04


Originally Posted by DutchRoll (Post 10237798)
Bullying and standover tactics applied by blokes against women trying to make it in male dominated areas is not a figment of the imagination or a "popular crusade". Anyone who thinks it is really needs some life experience with female loved ones heading into these areas to see what it's really like. As my wife says, who made it despite being on the receiving end of this behaviour numerous times, and despite (and probably partly because of) outperforming many of her male peers: "they actually don't have the faintest clue" (referring to guys who think it's rare or just some feminist invention)..........(cut)......

I can assure anyone in disagreement with DutchRoll's take on this that he is quite correct. Inadvertently my two children, one male and one female, are unknown to them conducting a social experiment in the banking industry.
Due to the way they were raised, I made no difference between boys and girls, they were raised as strong, intelligent and competitive.
They both work for the same bank in similar roles, and treat their peers and subordinates EXACTLY the same.
Bonuses are awarded partially on annual reports as well as sales targets attained.
Guess which one's bonuses were reduced due to perceived aggression by superiors.
FWIW
Cheers

Eddie Dean 31st Aug 2018 04:12

Just a thought on the Liberal/Nationals versus the Labor parties, after many years I can see no difference between them once in Government.

layman 31st Aug 2018 06:59

As I posted earlier regarding Merren McArthur's comments on the lack of diversity in the aviation industry.

Even before people start, there is "in-built" bias in the selection of women for a job.
https://www.weforum.org/agenda/2017/...ty-employment/

A couple of extracts from the article about research into sexism in job selection

Student job applications were randomly assigned a male/female name. Male applicants were rated much more highly than female applicants. When violinists were assessed behind a curtain, females in orchestras rose from around 5% to more than 25%.

Probable outcome - you need quotas to overcome the inbuilt bias in selection for a job / candidate for a party

When quotas were legislated in Norway (40% of board members must be female), a research paper ("Breaking the Glass Ceiling? The Effect of Board Quotas on Female Labor Market Outcomes in Norway") points to the positive outcomes of quotas.
http://faculty.chicagobooth.edu/mari..._5_29_2014.pdf

While it was early days, far from being a shortage of suitably qualified women, they found far more qualified women than were being considered for selection. Searching for candidates beyond the "old boys club" found women who were even more qualified than those already on boards.

Once in law, it also raised expectations with more women becoming interested in becoming board members.

regards
layman

SOPS 20th Oct 2018 12:10

Well what a complete cxxk up!!!!. Malcolm spat the dumb and resigned. He has now by his stupid, selfish. actions handed the PM position to Shorten. They should have left Abbott as PM. The put in a left wing PM, trying to run a right wing party...isolated the conservative base...and now we have a hung parliament, with Labor assured of a big win at the next election. What a mess!!! (IMHO)

chuboy 20th Oct 2018 12:23

I daresay if Tony Abbott had resigned when he was kicked out of the PM's office, the Liberal Party would not find themselves in this mess at all.

He's white-anted the LNP into oblivion for revenge, just like Rudd did to Labor. Now they reap what they sowed.

WingNut60 20th Oct 2018 13:14


Originally Posted by SOPS (Post 10287779)
Well what a complete cxxk up!!!!. Malcolm spat the dumb and resigned. He has now by his stupid, selfish. actions handed the PM position to Shorten. They should have left Abbott as PM. The put in a left wing PM, trying to run a right wing party...isolated the conservative base...and now we have a hung parliament, with Labor assured of a big win at the next election. What a mess!!! (IMHO)

So nothing to do with Abbott and Dutton then? Just Malcolm being selfish?

The current government had no hope of winning the next election anyway, irrespective of the outcome of this by-election.

layman 20th Oct 2018 21:11

Rudd hung around & 'poisoned' the Labor government

Abbot hung around & did the same wth the Libs to the stage where a Shorten led government is now pretty much just a matter of time. Thank you Tony !!

Gotta admit the cheering at the Labor candidates concession speech gave me a chuckle ... his primary vote was 11%

WingNut60 20th Oct 2018 21:29


Originally Posted by layman (Post 10288089)
..........Gotta admit the cheering at the Labor candidates concession speech gave me a chuckle ... his primary vote was 11%

Yes, but political parties never see a defeat as being a defeat.

You might also take a look at the cheering at the ScoMo/Sharma speech.
An horrendous, ignominious flogging and they all clapped and cheered.

The next logical step for Labor, now that they're standing in front of the goal posts, is for someone to step out of the shadows and take a crack at unseating Shorten.

Headline in West Australian :

PM vows to ‘listen, learn’ after crushing defeat
Yeah, right. That'll happen, for sure.

WingNut60 20th Oct 2018 21:41

I want to start a tipping competition.

When the Libs lose the coming election (I'll concede an 'if' here, if you want) and ScoMo follows Liberal Party convention and falls on his sword, which bunch of rabble will rise to the bottom to contest the newly vacant position?

dr dre 20th Oct 2018 23:58


Originally Posted by SOPS (Post 10287779)
Well what a complete cxxk up!!!!. Malcolm spat the dumb and resigned. He has now by his stupid, selfish. actions handed the PM position to Shorten. They should have left Abbott as PM. The put in a left wing PM, trying to run a right wing party...isolated the conservative base...and now we have a hung parliament, with Labor assured of a big win at the next election. What a mess!!! (IMHO)

Nonsense. If you think Malcolm is left wing your overton window is crazily skewed. He’s a moderate liberal, meaning he is economically and socially liberal. Less taxes but also pro gay marriage etc. I don’t see Turnbull advocating for renationalisation of industry, which would make him truly left wing. Outside of Abbott’s most diehard supporters the average politically disengaged centrist voter saw him as a fruit loop, the only reason he got into power in 2013 was because of ALP infighting. Once he actually had to do things as PM his support dropped and dragged the party down with him. Malcolm coming in just before the 2016 election gave swinging voters in the middle some hope and saw them just scrape over the line to take the election which would have been a certain loss under Abbott. However LNP support declined after that when the average voter realised Abbott, Dutton and Co had Malcolm by the balls and were neutering him. The only two LNP potential leaders who could get that crucial moderate support are Bishop or Turnbull, not Abbott or Dutton or Morrison.

We have compulsory voting here so alienating the conservative base is not isn’t a factor. Their preferences will still float back to the LNP. It’s more important to appeal to moderate centrist swinging voters who are typically not very politically engaged. Those voters dislike politics on the extremes and prefer moderates. That’s why Bill Shorten, who is on the right of the ALP and a moderate overall will get in over ScoMo, a fundamentalist on the right of the LNP who, despite every attempt to dress him up as a moderate is firmly in the right’s camp. The LNP should have gone for J Bish to have a chance at winning but the delcons couldn’t stand her. Now, with the fact that Labor have changed their leadership rules meaning it’ll be difficult to roll a leader mid term they’re looking at having a stable government for a full term. Which is now, saving for a major event that will swing the electorate, almost inevitable.


Originally Posted by WingNut60 (Post 10288106)
I want to start a tipping competition.

When the Libs lose the coming election (I'll concede an 'if' here, if you want) and ScoMo follows Liberal Party convention and falls on his sword, which bunch of rabble will rise to the bottom to contest the newly vacant position?

Will he resign? He’ll only have been in the top job for about 8 months and won’t really wont to give up his chance at regaining glory.

If you look at the state of the electorate with the exception of Dutton and George Christensen the LNP members in marginal seats who would lose their seats are mostly moderates (I’d also expect Dutton to be parachuted back into a safe seat or Senate position eventually as well). The hardcore conservatives would remain and try to remould the party in their image. Honestly it’d be better for the moderates in the LNP to break off and form their own socially liberal but lower taxes “actually Liberal” party and leave the conservatives to fight over the 10-20% right wing vote with One Nation and Bernardi’s Party.

WingNut60 21st Oct 2018 00:25


Originally Posted by dr dre (Post 10288172)
.......Will he resign? He’ll only have been in the top job for about 8 months and won’t really wont to give up his chance at regaining glory.

I thought it went with the secret handshake. Lead the party to a loss and they want to see your viscera, no exceptions.
Of course he won’t want to give up his chance at regaining glory.
But Tony and Dutton will surely want another crack at it too. IF they each get back in, of course.

dr dre 21st Oct 2018 01:21


Originally Posted by WingNut60 (Post 10288182)
I thought it went with the secret handshake. Lead the party to a loss and they want to see your viscera, no exceptions.
Of course he won’t want to give up his chance at regaining glory.
But Tony and Dutton will surely want another crack at it too. IF they each get back in, of course.

For ScoMo and Abbott, yes. For Dutton, doubtful. They’ll continue the rounds of backstabbing in a divided party. Frydenburg vs Paterson or Hastie could be potential candidates for a future battle between the moderates and the conservatives but I’d doubt the differences would subside. The only way this will go I believe is a new party forming, a socially liberal but economically moderate (lower taxes etc) party that would be a natural fit for a lot of middle class urban voters, especially swinging voters. Then the conservative wing of the Liberals would merge with the Nationals and Bernardi’s party. They would contest with further right parties like One Nation and Katter for the right wing vote, but I’d doubt in total that would be worth more than 30%. The ALP would shrink a bit, and the Greens would also lose support to a new Liberal party I believe.

Ascend Charlie 21st Oct 2018 01:44

And with Kerryn adding another LGBTQDGW to the parliamentary list, and as an Independent, there will be some interesting vote-counts for new legislation.






*DGW is for the dunces and gecko-watchers inhabiting the hallowed halls. Contributing little, consuming oxygen.

dr dre 21st Oct 2018 01:50


Originally Posted by Ascend Charlie (Post 10288213)
*DGW is for the dunces and gecko-watchers inhabiting the hallowed halls. Contributing little, consuming oxygen.

Enough of those already if the speaker of the house turns to his right....

Ken Borough 21st Oct 2018 05:37

Sharma maybe to win by a nose! Who'd have thunk that last night at the close of counting?

SOPS 21st Oct 2018 07:39

Do you really think so, Ken? It seems too close to call at the moment.

dr dre 21st Oct 2018 09:15


Originally Posted by Ken Borough (Post 10288272)
Sharma maybe to win by a nose! Who'd have thunk that last night at the close of counting?

Looks like Phelps has picked up some more votes this evening. Either way it doesn't matter. It's only about 6 months til the next election and Phelps won't support a No confidence motion against the government in any case. They'll just barely hang on for the next 6 months with either Phelps or Sharma in the seat with what is now pretty much a lame duck government.

The damage done however is undeniable. The largest swing in a by election in Australian history against the Coalition. Their next election strategy is in tatters. Scomo's attempt to paint himself as an moderate footy loving boofhead is in tatters. Save a major shock incident all of you out there (haters or not) better get used to saying "Prime Minister Bill Shorten" in 6 months time because it's becoming increasingly inevitable. And you'll probably saying it for 3 years because of the ALP's rule changes to make it very hard to swap leaders mid election.

SOPS 21st Oct 2018 11:21

Yes Dr..I agree (sadly)..however I think Shorten will be PM for at least 2 terms because the Libs will be decimated. The people smugglers will be loading the boats as we speak..we might as go onto food stamps because Labor will tax us out of existence...however it will take the electorate at least 2 terms to work out what they voted for. May we live in interesting times....


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