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-   -   War in Australia (any Oz Politics): the Original (https://www.pprune.org/jet-blast/477678-war-australia-any-oz-politics-original.html)

CoodaShooda 21st Apr 2016 10:54

Except the Germans are proposing to build all of the boats in South Australia at no greater cost than it would have been had they built them in Germany.

Ethel the Aardvark 21st Apr 2016 11:59

Do we even need submarines, I thought that the navy had serious issues getting enough crew to operate the collins class. I would think investment in unmanned technology would be better spent.

CoodaShooda 21st Apr 2016 13:29

It's ok Ethel

Labor will be returned at the next election and will no doubt do nothing about Defence other than rip money out of its budget.

Stanwell 21st Apr 2016 14:02

The way I see it is that, politically, practically and economically, the South Australian submarine proposal is the only way it will go.

As for Labor getting in... Nah!
They've still got a couple of electoral cycles to go before they get it together enough to even present themselves as a credible alternative government - and even then, they'd be pushing it.
Mind you though, if the Mad Monk and his backers, who won't accept the referee's decision, are determined to keep on white-anting the government, then there is going to be trouble.

As for Australian troops being actively out there guarding our infrastructure and tourism assets, well, all I can say is that their camouflage must be more effective than I'd thought.
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Flying Binghi 21st Apr 2016 21:41


via CoodaShooda:
Except the Germans are proposing to build all of the boats in South Australia at no greater cost than it would have been had they built them in Germany.
The problem there is they will not actually be building all of the boat in SA.

Last I looked Australia dont have much of a manufacturing industry.

Who will manufacture the specialist steel for the hulls?
Who will manufacture and supply parts for the diesel electric motors?
Who will manufacture the hydraulic systems and maintenance spare parts?
Who will manufacture the electrical equipment and ongoing maintence parts that runs the boat?
etc...

Japan has those industries and more.

CoodaShooda, I'm sure you can probably add to that list.




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CoodaShooda 21st Apr 2016 21:57

Hi Binghi

The spin the Germans are putting on it is that they will bring the technology here, just as they have done in China.

I'm not sure they have factored in our IR constraints though. :E

Stanwell

It's not so much Labor winning but the Coalition losing. They've lost the Nursing Home vote, or so I hear.

bosnich71 22nd Apr 2016 00:11

Sat well ...I did say that the Australian Army was 'planning' to guard such assets,hence their invisibility.

Ethel the Aardvark 22nd Apr 2016 01:05

Glad to see you still have the finger on the pulse 71,
I thought it was a forgone conclusion that Japan would win the contract, most likely obsolete and of course well over budget when finished.
Glad to see Mirabella making noise again. Her and Michaela Cash would be a wonderful team :sad:

Ken Borough 22nd Apr 2016 02:17

What has happened to Worralls and her perceptive posts?

MTOW 22nd Apr 2016 02:51

So, predictably, the multi MULTI billion dollar decision on the submarine selection for the Navy will be primarily based upon winning a couple of marginal seats in South Australia rather than selecting the best submarine we can afford.

I'm sure, OVER 30 years from now (!), when a RAN crew is aboard one of their newly delivered Vickers Vimys... (sorry, President Turnbull Class) submarines and having to go to the surface to snort to recharge the **** batteries, thereby exposing themselves to almost certain detection and therefore destruction, they'll understand and 'take one for the team' because they will understand that their boat helped get President Turnbull re-elected waaaay back in 2016.

Ovation 22nd Apr 2016 07:59


What has happened to Worralls and her perceptive posts?
A good question - Worrals has not posted for almost six months (last 20th Nov 2015).

Worrals has always a voice of logic, sanity and reason - perhaps no longer able to tolerate political staffer's posts.

Pinky the pilot 22nd Apr 2016 10:14

Re Worrals; I e-mailed her a little while back, a bit concerned at her absence.

Fear not, fellow Ppruners; She has decided to take a bit of a break from all social media, for various reasons but mainly because her studies are taking up a bit more of her time that she would like, but.....:hmm:

She assured me that she will be back in due course but in the meantime I am to pass on her regards to those who ask!:ok:

Ken Borough 24th Apr 2016 13:00

Pinky,

Thank you for the update. With Worrall's newly gained knowledge, her contributions will be much more interesting and perspicacious! :ok:

Stanwell 24th Apr 2016 20:15

Perspicacity on here?
Haven't seen that for a while. :E


Oh, just to be first in with the news this week... Malcolm ignores Tony's backers (oops, sorry, I mean faithful followers).
So there we go... You heard it here first.


ANZAC DAY
Lest We Forget.
.

bosnich71 26th Apr 2016 06:32

DCNS it is then,who woulda thought !

Stanwell 26th Apr 2016 09:10

Well, well, well... The Japanese have their noses out of joint.
They didn't get the submarine contract and are demanding an explanation as to why.

Of course the Foreign Minister's (not their Trade Minister, you notice) sentiments were expressed in that peculiarly Nipponese way,
"Regret", "Sorrow", and "Disappointment".
I kind of got the impression from the tone of his announcement that we'd been unwise to reject the opportunity to participate in another
"Greater East Asia Co-prosperity Sphere".
Well, we saw how the last one turned out didn't we?.

Then, to top it all off, the Nips are so inward-looking (don't confuse that with introspective) and anally-retentive that they can't see how
such protestations might be viewed here in Oz the day after Anzac Day.

Of course, Minister, you weren't personally involved in the sinking, by a Japanese submarine, of the Australian Hospital Ship 'Centaur'
just off Brisbane that night in May of 1943, were you?
Let me refresh your memory..
The white-painted and brightly floodlit ship emblazoned with Red Crosses, was just sitting there - a juicy target that was just too good
for your Honourable Ancestors to pass up, wasn't it?
In total, 264 of the 322 persons on board perished. Just one nurse survived.

'Please, kindly', Minister, take your offended sensibilities somewhere else.
Particularly on the day after Anzac Day.

Falcon Al 26th Apr 2016 09:38

On that note, I may have to sell my Toyota, mazda and nissan now and buy a peugeot :sad:

Stanwell 26th Apr 2016 09:59

Al,
I had some involvement with bringing HMAS Success into service.
I wouldn't trust the Froggies too much, either.
Some people are too ready to say .. "Oh, but that was yesterday".
.

Falcon Al 26th Apr 2016 10:06

Yes, that was kind of my point. Its a case of damned if you do ..

I16 26th Apr 2016 11:12

1 Attachment(s)
They are very good at blowing things up underwater.


http://www.thelocal.fr/20160426/fren...-contract-dcns

Ethel the Aardvark 27th Apr 2016 01:48

http://http://mobile.abc.net.au/news...ecting/7361554

Just like with Airbus the standard phrase will be " why did they design it that way ? Because they are French"

bosnich71 27th Apr 2016 02:42

Ethel ...... this French sub couldn't possibly be as bad as the last one built in Sth.Oz.... could it ?

parabellum 27th Apr 2016 03:17

If the French use CAE I hope their submarine work is a few levels higher than some of their simulators I have flown!

wiggy 27th Apr 2016 03:33

DCNS (the French boat builders) supposedly manufacture their own sims ...whether that's an improvement or not on CAE I'll leave others to judge.

SOPS 27th Apr 2016 12:40

So, they are closing Manus. That is not what Malcom wants this close to an election. Two Dads will be delerious. Wait until she works out that they are not on tomorrow's flight to Sydney, she will have an attack of the vapours.

SOPS 27th Apr 2016 14:37

Yep, as I thought, the lentil weavers are out in force on the ABC tonight. They are almost wetting their collective pants. I note that PNG has said they can stay in PNG, but the 'refuges' say they only want to come to Australia. So, once again, they are country shopping.

MTOW 28th Apr 2016 01:12

If the 850 on Manus were released into the PNG community, there'd be a convoy of 4WDs down to Daru and a fleet of tinnies assembled for the trip across Torres Strait within a fortnight - and probably arranged, not by people smugglers, but by well-meaning Australians who think of themselves as having a social conscience, led by people like Sarah Hanson-Young, if not Sarah Hanson-Young herself.

MTOW 28th Apr 2016 21:51

OK, perhaps not the most appropriate thread for this comment, but short of opening a new thread, I didn't see another that was obvious.

I went to see 'Eye in the Sky' last night, which, apart from having 70+ year old Helen Mirren playing the role of a serving military officer, (which she pulled off extraordinarily well), was, I fear, an absolutely 101% accurate representation of how things work in today's high tech world of military communications, which allows micro (no, make that NANO) management by people absolutely remote from the battlefield (please, don't leap upon what some might opine is my inappropriate use of that word).

9/10ths of the world - i.e., damn near everyone outside the Western democracies, and 100% of those we're "fighting" - would be scratching their heads wondering WTF all the agonising was all about.

I'd go so far as to suggest that the title of the movie should include a sub title: "And This Is Why We Will Lose this War".

I'd be interested to hear from any currently serving military people as to how accurate the movie is. I fear I know the answer - that much overused word "absolutely".

Hempy 29th Apr 2016 08:59

Old mate Sen. Sinodinos looks like his corrupt chickens are coming home to roost. Who would have thunk it...

MTOW 29th Apr 2016 09:10

I have to agree with you Hempy. He looks as dodgy as dodgy gets. His memory loss over the Sydney Water business should have been evidence enough to prove that he doesn't possess the mental faculties to remain a Member of Parliament - but it needs to be said that if we applied that same rule to everyone in Parliament, they'd have a hard time forming a quorum.

Particularly on the Labor benches.

Stanwell 29th Apr 2016 09:15

Couldn't agree more, chaps.
A bit of a worry, innit?

Hempy 29th Apr 2016 11:31

He was chairman of Australian Water Holdings, a company which remains the subject of an ICAC inquiry, and concurrently treasurer of the NSW Liberal Party. The company he was chairman of was making donations to the political organisation he was treasurer of, and he 'can't recall'??

That's not a lack of mental faculty, that's downright deceit..

parabellum 29th Apr 2016 13:54

Which does nothing more than to prove that both sides are as bad as each other.


As any politician will tell you, it doesn't pay to try and cut someone off at the ankles because then they will cut you off at the knees, next the hips, etc. etc.

Hempy 29th Apr 2016 15:36

Oh, very good. I see how it works now...if the union movement or Labor or the Greens or the independents are seen as being somehow unethical, it's 'hang them all' and 'a disgrace'. If the Libs get found out it's 'well what do you expect, they're only being as bad as the others.'

In another setting, that attitude is called 'enabling'. Top marks for carrying on the indifference :ok:

Flying Binghi 2nd May 2016 01:26


via Hempy:
I see how it works now...if the union movement or Labor or the Greens or the independents are seen as being somehow unethical, it's 'hang them all' and 'a disgrace'. If the Libs get found out it's...

...its get rid of the corruption from the party.

The turnBull gov-mint will go down in Oz history as the most corrupt and incompetent we've had.

Meanwhile, more comes out about the turnBull gov-mint corrupt clustafek of a sub deal...

"...With another bloated budget looming ... that could further undermine Australia’s AAA credit rating, it is opportune to reflect on the integrity of the Turnbull government’s bold decision to punt $50 billion on building 12 French submarine “concepts” that have yet to be designed, produced or proven in the water..."

Buying subs from the fickle French is a huge and expensive gamble | Herald Sun Andrew Bolt Blog




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bosnich71 2nd May 2016 06:32

Another 'paper boat' just like the Collins Class ... and that was a huge success wasn't it?

Clare Prop 2nd May 2016 13:18

With the way drones etc are developing surely by the time these are built submarines will be remote controlled?

Traffic_Is_Er_Was 2nd May 2016 14:02

Unfortunately, that has a major drawback, as when you hold the remote control under water, the batteries short out. :}

Hempy 8th May 2016 18:50

Our RWNJ's seem to have gone all quiet for some reason.

Election July 2nd. Who will you vote for? :}

CoodaShooda 8th May 2016 22:04

I'm waiting to see who the candidates are, Hempy.

But I think I can safely rule out the incumbent, her Labor opponent and whoever the Greens put up.


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