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-   -   War in Australia (any Oz Politics): the Original (https://www.pprune.org/jet-blast/477678-war-australia-any-oz-politics-original.html)

500N 14th Dec 2013 11:40

"The mazda 121 was bigger inside and 5.4litres per 100km beats a 5.6 litres per 100km hands down.

Since when has a Holden 6 done 5.4 litres per 100 km ?
Never in it's last 10 years.

"The paradigm of the big orstraylian six has long passed. most urbanites seldom leave the urban.""

It's not just about leaving "urban", it's about towing and a range of other things.

500N 14th Dec 2013 11:50

"Hit a raw nerve? It's been 100 days in office but the government has shown no signs of improving or even attempting to improve the dire situations our country faces."

Yes, ht a bit of a raw nerve, especially when Labor supporters say it considering they had 6 years to do things.

As said before by someone, 100 days, 10% of the time. Give them a chance
to change things. I think we are also so used to Rudd going 100kmh, we now
say someone is slow if they are not going that fast !!! :O

"Our economy is running on a hair trigger, bolstered by a resources boom. Dutch disease has done away with almost all domestic manufacturing"

Agree, the economy is on a hair trigger.

Domestic manufacturing, well you can't blame any one gov't, it transcends
all of them of the last 30 years.

"and when the foreign companies have bled us dry of resources they will leave
with the majority of their money""

Not all companies are foreign and certainly not all resource companies.

"Education is a problem. I tutor university subjects and I'm shocked at the low skills of the students in English."

The English skills of a lot of people is disgusting. I know of a worker
in a school, foreign, been here 20 years, teacher, her English is crap and
she is teaching kids pre school !!!

dubbleyew eight 14th Dec 2013 13:50

Since when has a Holden 6 done 5.4 litres per 100 km ?
comprehension not a strong point eh?
I compared it to the holden spark.

....but lets be serious a second. what would you take as an art union prize.
a top of the range subaru or a holden ???

you'd be the only one taking the holden.

500N 14th Dec 2013 14:18

WTF is a Holden Spark ?????????

Never heard of it. I thought it was a joke name for a Holden anything.

Re what would I take, I would take the Subaru.

Even though I have taken my Commodore Ute and Station wagon
in places most thought wasn't possible, a Subaru kills a Commodore
in most aspects.

dubbleyew eight 14th Dec 2013 14:28

holden spark


500N 14th Dec 2013 14:32

Jesus, I wouldn't even notice one of those on the road, they tend to get out of my way or suffer the consequences.

Not sure I'd even feel a bump running over one ;) :O

Can that car get over 70 kmh ?

SOPS 14th Dec 2013 17:55

Whoops, looks like 70 just rocked up at Christmas.

Ken Borough 14th Dec 2013 22:20

The English skills of a lot of people is disgusting.
That is certainly the case! One expects better next time. :ok:

parabellum 14th Dec 2013 22:40

That's about 10% of his term as a PM... not enough time to fix everything sure but more than enough time to get started. How long do we have to wait for a new government to start taking responsibility and stop dwelling on what they inherited? It's the perennial question.

Surely that would depend on the extent and depth of the mess left? In this case very big and very deep and if every move the Government makes is going to be blocked by ignorant Greens and petulant Labour then it will go on for some considerable time and quite reasonably, too.

Captain Sand Dune 15th Dec 2013 00:03

It usually takes a lot longer to clean up a mess then it takes to make it in the first place.
Looks like some have not gotten over the previous government's obsession with getting their mugs on the telly instead of actually governing.

Dark Knight 15th Dec 2013 00:09

Grace Collier From: The Australian December 10, 2013 12:00AM

ONLY $150 million a year will save Holden? Rubbish. The Holden Enterprise Agreement is the document that has utterly sunk Holden's prospects. It defies belief that someone in the company isn't being held to account for it.

Holden's management masks a union culture beyond most people's comprehension. Employment costs spiralled way beyond community standards long ago. Neither "pay freezes" nor more money will save Holden, but getting the Fair Work Commission to dissolve the agreement and put all workers on the award wage might be a start.

In 1991, the pre-enterprise bargaining award wage of a Holden entry level process worker was $462.80 a week. In 1992, Holden began enterprise bargaining and now a worker at that same classification level has a base rate of $1194.50 a week, a 158 per cent increase, or a compound increase of 4.4 per cent year on year for 22 years. Right now, base wage rates for process workers in the Holden enterprise agreement are in the $60,000 to $80,000 per year range and in recent times, "hardship payments" of $3750 were given to each worker.

The modern award for such workers mandates base rates in the $37,000 to $42,000 range. This means that before we add any of the shift penalties, loadings, 26 allowances and the added cost of productivity restrictions, Holden begins each working day paying its workforce almost double what it should. After you add in the other employment costs, I estimate Holden's workforce costs it somewhere close to triple the amount it should.

Many people who work at Holden don't actually work for Holden; they work for the union. Occupational health and safety people are given 10 days' paid time off a year to be trained by the union. Most companies do not allow unions to train their OH&S people because the knowledge is used to control the workplace to the benefit of the union.

Union delegates are also allowed up to 10 paid days a year for union training in how to be effective union delegates and two of these delegates are entitled to an extra Holden sponsorship of one paid month off to "further their industrial and/or leadership development".

Holden's rules on hiring casuals are shocking and unheard of in today's market. The agreement forbids Holden from hiring casuals except when a "short-term increase in workload, or other unusual circumstances occurs". If this situation arises Holden has to "consult and reach agreement" with the union. Further, "Engagement of the agreed number of casual personnel will be for the agreed specified tasks and the agreed specified periods." If any of this changes, Holden must get union agreement again. After three months of continuous full-time work a casual must be made permanent. It is impossible to run a business like this.

An ex-employee from Adelaide, on condition of anonymity, consented to an interview yesterday. He described the workforce as "over-managed", with one team leader for every six workers on the production line, when one for every 25 workers would suffice.

He said "some of us workers felt it wasn't necessary to get paid what we were getting paid to do the jobs we were doing", adding that their work is probably worth about "20 bucks an hour". A few years back, mates took redundancy packages in the order of "$280k plus". Workers are "like sheep" that blindly follow the union leadership. At induction, new workers are ushered into one-on-one meetings with the union rep who heavies them into joining. "It is made clear that if you don't join the union you will be sacked," he said. Union representatives "don't actually do any work for Holden", but rather make themselves full-time enforcers of union control.
He says workers are drug tested before hiring, but "only have to stay off it for a few weeks, get in the door and then you'll be right". Workers caught taking drugs or being drug-affected at work are allegedly put on a fully paid rehabilitation program, with special paid time off of about four weeks duration, before being let back into the workforce.

Australian workplaces have a zero tolerance for drug use, with instant dismissal the remedy, but at Holden "the union won't let the company sack" any workers caught dealing, taking or being on drugs. "If they did a random drug test tomorrow they'd probably have to sack 40 per cent of the workforce," he adds.

If the Holden scenario were playing out in a privately owned business, proper cost-cutting strategies would be used. If you have the will and can hire the skill, there are many ways to cut labour costs. The workers can be given a couple of years notice of significant wage drops and can receive lump sum payouts of entitlements to help bring down family debt.

Of course, these strategies are only ever used by business people who have no one else to bail them out. It seems Holden would rather leave the country than dissolve its enterprise agreement. The union thinks members are better off jobless than on award wages. Holden's fate seems sealed.

If Holden does leave, workers will receive the most generous redundancy benefits around. Holden says leaving will cost $600m. Most of this will go to staff payouts. The fellow interviewed agrees with my calculation: the average production-line worker will walk away with a redundancy package of between $300k-500k.

Andu 15th Dec 2013 01:18

Quite a bit of discussion on the Michael Smith page about Indonesian salvers using heavy equipment to salvage metal from the wreck of HMAS Perth, which was lost, along with USS Houston, in the Battle of the Sunda Strait in 1942. Although over 300 Australian sailors were lost when Perth was sunk, the wreck has not been officially designated a war grave, and if some of those posting on the Michael Smith site are to be believed, both the Rudd and the Abbott governments have gone to some pain to keep the Indonesian salvage operation out of the public eye, the Abbott government so as not to exacerbate the current Australian/Indonesian standoff over Australian security services' phone tapping of Indonesian politicians.

Given the way they ran with the phone tapping story "because the public had the right to know", I can only wonder why the ALPBC has not made a similar splash over this matter.

I also wonder if the Indonesian salvage companies have ripped into the wreck of the USS Houston, which I understand went down not far from the Perth?

500N 15th Dec 2013 01:29

" the wreck has not been officially designated a war grave, "

Then why hasn't it ?

If it is not a war grave, then they have the right of salvage.

It makes you wonder why it is not a war grave.

I notice the stripping is written up in Wikipedia
as is the fact that it is not being per sued.

Captain Sand Dune 15th Dec 2013 02:03

I can only wonder why the ALPBC has not made a similar splash over this matter.
Because the ALPBC along with the lefties don't GAF about our military or it's history.

porch monkey 15th Dec 2013 02:12

Filthy F#cking maggots. That is all.

Ken Borough 15th Dec 2013 06:13

Captain Sand Dune

I think the heat's gotten to you, having been perhaps too long in the desert. If the ABC doesn't care about the Australian military or its history, tell me why the Anzac Day March in every capital city is shown live on ABC TV? Do the commercial networks do likewise? Who shows live on TV, the Dawn Service at Gallipoli. And another Anzac Day commemoration at Villers-Bretoneux? The ABC of course.

The most recent War Cemetery 'opened' was in Fromelles, France in 2010. Memory tells me that the ABC ran a live telecast of that event, not the commercial networks.

If, by doing these telecasts, the ABC doesn't care about Australia's military history, I'm Kim Jong Il. :ugh::ugh:

Captain Dart 15th Dec 2013 06:15

Hec Waller, the captain of the Perth, should have been awarded a posthumous VC for his action in the Sunda Strait, not to mention his previous record. The dedication of his memorial in Benalla (his home town), next to that of 'Weary' Dunlop's, was attended by actors dressed as sailors and the flypast was by a guy in a home built aircraft. The Navy could not spare the resources; too busy dealing with those poor illegal immigrants. A bloody disgrace.

There was a smaller ceremony at Benalla the following year with some naval personnel in attendance.

The book 'Cruiser' is an interesting read.

Why is it not a war grave or the looting reported on the ALPBC? Too busy reporting on gay marriage, Mandela's interminable send-off, blubbering union hacks at GMH, and their socialist agenda.

The Gallipoli landings are fashionable among the Left, the home-grown Aussie battlers hard-done-by by the incompetent British upper class generals, almost 100 years ago in a different world. You will probably find that 'Gallipoli' features fairly prominently in the state schools, along with Aboriginal culture, global warming...erm 'climate change', and the role of unions. Shame about the literacy and numeracy, though.

500N 15th Dec 2013 06:25

"If the ABC doesn't care about the Australian military or its history, tell me why the Anzac Day March in every capital city is shown live on ABC TV? Do the commercial networks do likewise? Who shows live on TV, the Dawn Service at Gallipoli. And another Anzac Day commemoration at Villers-Bretoneux? The ABC of course."

The Commercial networks often do show these live.

Either way, the left leaning wankers on the ABC might show the above
but that doesn't make up for the damage and crap they do in other areas.

Quote happy to run negatives regarding our involvement in recent wars
that didn't fitthe ABC agenda.

Ken Borough 15th Dec 2013 07:00


What is the 'ABC agenda'? Where are the details so that we may become, like you, enlightened!

SOPS 15th Dec 2013 07:13

There are non so blind as those that will not see.......

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