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MTOW 13th Dec 2015 01:10

If Australia is to cut carbon emissions and maintain even a semblance of its current standards of living, can we assume that Malcolm Turnbull will announce tomorrow that we will be fast-tracking with every resource available to us a programme to establish a nuclear power grid to serve all of Australia? Despite the wishful thinking of the likes of Timfoolery and di Natale, there is NO other option available to us.


megan 13th Dec 2015 02:16

You'd rather people became rich the traditional way, digging a mine into the countryside
What are we going to build our windmills out of if we don't first dig a hole in the ground and mine some thing - like Fe, Cu or Al. :p

Ethel the Aardvark 13th Dec 2015 03:33

The sassy little number Jules Bishop has decreed a historic day in Paris. Removal of wind turbine ban. Looking better every week. Once Mal gets rid of the cabinet Neos then i might even become a lib voter next year!

parabellum 13th Dec 2015 03:38

Turnbull has just unfrozen the establishing of more wind farms! Abbott knew they were a complete waste of money but Malcolm knows best! :rolleyes:

Yes, nuclear power, the only sensible way to go.

MTOW 13th Dec 2015 03:44

megan, megan, megan... you silly goose. Don't you know that in Greensland, all that Fe, Cu or Al stuff comes* in pre-packed plastic containers? (Re-recyclable, of course.) Not that 99% of Greens would have a clue what you're referring to with those symbols. The Periodic Table, for them, is something a bit too private to discuss in public; secret wimmin's business.

The wind turbines too just appear on a nearby hill** already made. No metal or concrete required. They jus appear, as does the 'lectricity on days when the wind aint blowin'.

(*Just like 'organic' meat, milk and and everything else they eat.)

(**Well, not 'nearby' anywhere they live, you understand; they need pristine views of the inner ciddy flat next door.)

SOPS 13th Dec 2015 05:00

And when the wind ain't blowing and the sun aint shining? On TV last night was some lentil weaver at the Paris hot air conference, proudly proclaiming ' we are at the end of the fossil fuel age'. These people really do live in ga ga land.

Ethel the Aardvark 13th Dec 2015 06:09

Nearly 200 countries sign up in Paris. Our secret huggy fluff plan to take over the world is on track. Captain Irrelavant last seen with his Bolt buddy screaming " FOILED AGAIN" and having to take his frustration out on some defenslive muslim woman
Its been a lot more entertaining since Turns has been at the helm

chuboy 13th Dec 2015 08:34

Originally Posted by MTOW (Post 9209005)
(**Well, not 'nearby' anywhere they live, you understand; they need pristine views of the inner ciddy flat next door.)

he said, lacking-self-awarenessly.

I appreciate first-hand the need for a "resource extraction" industry.

The problem people have with wind farms, fundamentally, is that they are NIMBYs and don't like the sight of them.

Thus we have the flying binghis of this world objecting to businesspeople profiting from wind farms. All the while selectively ignoring the massively profitable eyesore that is a typical mine site, mind you.

What's good for the goose is good for the gander, etc.

BEACH KING 13th Dec 2015 09:13

The problem people have with wind farms, fundamentally, is that they are NIMBYs and don't like the sight of them.

Thus we have the flying binghis of this world objecting to businesspeople profiting from wind farms. All the while selectively ignoring the massively profitable eyesore that is a typical mine site, mind you.
So I take it you would have no objection to having a wind turbine in your back yard Chuboy?
A mate of mine has a few up against his back fence, despite some fairly expensive objections. They sound like a C210 at take takeoff whenever the wind is blowing...which is most of the time.
Small price to pay though, as they produce enough electricity to nearly power your standard electric kettle.

chuboy 13th Dec 2015 10:38

Not bad at all, BEACH KING, considering kettles draw the most electricity of pretty much any household appliance, for the period of time that they are switched on of course.

I suggest you buy some yourself and make your own free electricity. Use the power savings to buy yourself a pair of Bose QC headphones and drown out all the noise of your neighbourhood (disclaimer, they don't work so well on speech so you will still hear your significant other nagging you). You can use your free power to recharge the batteries too, win-win. :ok:

As for your question, if you read back a few posts you will see my comments were not intended to pass judgement on either mines or wind farms, but on the disingenuous hypocrites who pretend that one is more entitled than the other to profit from blighting the natural landscape. :=

Stanwell 13th Dec 2015 10:52

And while you're at it, go for a fly over the beautiful Hunter Valley in NSW and see what open-cut coal mining does.

Cheap and nasty - so that a few 'entrepreneurs' can make a quick buck selling it to China - and the Chinese are our friends, y'know.
Anything else we can sell to the Chinese?
Have a riffle round in the bottom drawer - bound to be something in there.

Oh, but it's good for the economy and... jobs... Mate!

Don't make me sick please.

p.s. All windfarms should ideally be placed in the 'roaring forties', then it can only upset the Tasmanians - and they don't count.

parabellum 13th Dec 2015 11:24

The problem people have with wind farms, fundamentally, is that they are NIMBYs and don't like the sight of them.
Errr.......... No, the problem people have with wind farms is that they cost a massive amount to produce and erect and only produce a minimal amount of power, but require a lot of expensive maintenance, so they are a commercial disaster, an environmental disaster, (migrating birds, but not exclusively), with no chance of breaking even before they are worn out. They are a sop to the greens and Turnbull knows it. Will Turnbull have the courage to go ahead with a nuclear power?

chuboy 13th Dec 2015 11:38

" they cost a massive amount to produce and erect... require a lot of expensive maintenance, so they are a commercial disaster, an environmental disaster"

I'm sure you'd find no shortage of people willing to say the same about nuclear and able to furnish some very convincing numbers in favour of their view.

Quite rightly, you could argue technological advances have made their opinion obsolete - and the same can be said for wind power.

There is no silver bullet, a mix of technologies from which the most appropriate for the area can be selected is the best way to go forward.

Ovation 16th Dec 2015 07:34

Everybodys favourite (ex) politician Craig Thomson has been recently ordered to repay 458K for his misuse of Heath Services Union funds (paying for trips, prosititutes etc).

Surely you haven't forgotten him already? He's the one that put on the big sooky act in parliament protesting his innocence.

Disgraced former Labor MP Craig Thomson ordered to pay $458,000 over HSU spending

MTOW 16th Dec 2015 09:29

Will Turnbull have the courage to go ahead with a nuclear power?
Not holding my breath for that. He damn well should, for it's the only option if we're going to can coal.

SOPS 16th Dec 2015 09:34

But he did nothing wrong, I thought?

Flying Binghi 18th Dec 2015 05:40

To get rid of the corrupt turnBull: VOTE LABOR...

"I’m moving from my initial position of spoiling my ballot and voting informally at the next election to voting for Labor..."

"Those who, like myself, remain appalled by that have since been enjoined – including by commentators formerly seen as Abbott supporters – to ‘get over it’ and ‘accept the pollsters’ verdicts’. Well, I’m sorry, but as Margaret Thatcher famously told her Conservative Party colleagues: ‘You turn if you want to. The lady’s not for turning’. Nor am I.

Why not? Because if treachery and betrayal on this scale are not punished, they will beget more such treachery and betrayal....."

VOTES SHIFTING | Daily Telegraph Tim Blair Blog


Stanwell 18th Dec 2015 06:17

I hear that those 'champions of free speech', Andrew Bolt and Steve Price, have suffered a "Disastrous crash in ratings" of their radio program.
I can't help wondering why.

Flying Binghi 18th Dec 2015 10:26

We'll take yer word for it Stanwell. Though, Bolt aint in govenment, He just comments on it..;)

Jo Nova has a look-see at whats on the way...

"...There’s a strange rush on in Australian politics to force Australian companies (and consumers) to send money to struggling bankers in Europe...

The carbon tax and ETS is right back on the agenda in Australia ? thank Gore and Palmer « JoNova


Dark Knight 19th Dec 2015 01:54

Most of us understand, agree with, see what needs to be done: why are OUR politicians incapable of understanding and taking the necessary action?

News - Islam Will Only Be Defeated By...Islam - The Pickering Post

The following is also of interest particularly to OUR American Cousins.

Why the Marine Hymn Contains the Verse "To the Shores of Tripoli"

This very interesting and a must read piece of our history. It points out where we may be heading.

Most Americans are unaware of the fact that over two hundred years ago the United States had declared war on Islam and Thomas Jefferson led the charge!

At the height of the eighteenth century, Muslim pirates (the “Barbary Pirates”) were the terror of the Mediterranean and a large area of the North Atlantic.

They attacked every ship in sight, and held the crews for exorbitant ransoms. Those taken hostage were subjected to barbaric treatment and wrote heart-breaking letters home, begging their government and family members to pay whatever their Mohammedan captors demanded.

These extortionists of the high seas represented the North African Islamic nations of Tripoli, Tunis, Morocco, and Algiers - collectively referred to as the Barbary Coast - and presented a dangerous and unprovoked threat to the new American Republic.

Before the Revolutionary War, U.S. merchant ships had been under the protection of Great Britain. When the U.S. declared its independence and entered into war, the ships of the United States were protected by France. However, once the war was won, America had to protect its own fleets.

Thus, the birth of the U.S. Navy. Beginning in 1784, seventeen years before he would become president, Thomas Jefferson became America 's Minister to France. That same year, the U.S. Congress sought to appease its Muslim adversaries by following in the footsteps of European nations who paid bribes to the Barbary States rather than engaging them in war.

In July of 1785, Algerian pirates captured American ships, and the Dye of Algiers demanded an unheard-of ransom of $60,000. It was a plain and simple case of extortion, and Thomas Jefferson was vehemently opposed to any further payments. Instead, he proposed to Congress the formation of a coalition of allied nations who together could force the Islamic states into peace. A disinterested Congress decided to pay the ransom.

In 1786, Thomas Jefferson and John Adams met with Tripoli 's ambassador to Great Britain to ask by what right his nation attacked American ships and enslaved American citizens, and why Muslims held so much hostility towards America, a nation with which they had no previous contacts.

The two future presidents reported that Ambassador Sidi Haji Abdul Rahman Adja had answered that Islam "was founded on the Laws of their Prophet, that it was written in their Quran that all nations who would not have acknowledged their authority were sinners, that it was their right and duty to make war upon them wherever they could be found, and to make slaves of all they could take as prisoners, and that every Musselman (Muslim) who should be slain in Battle was sure to go to Paradise."

Despite this stunning admission of premeditated violence on non-Muslim nations, as well as the objections of many notable American leaders, including George Washington, who warned that caving in was both wrong and would only further embolden the enemy, for the following fifteen years the American government paid the Muslims millions of dollars for the safe passage of American ships or the return of American hostages. The payments in ransom and tribute amounted to over twenty percent of the United States government annual revenues in 1800.

Jefferson was disgusted. Shortly after his being sworn in as the third President of the United States in 1801, the Pasha of Tripoli sent him a note demanding the immediate payment of $225,000 plus $25,000 a year for every year forthcoming. That changed everything.

Jefferson let the Pasha know, in no uncertain terms, what he could do with his demand. The Pasha responded by cutting down the flagpole at the American consulate and declared war on the United States. Tunis, Morocco, and Algiers immediately followed suit. Jefferson, until now, had been against America raising a naval force for anything beyond coastal defense, but, having watched his nation be cowed by Islamic thuggery for long enough, decided that it was finally time to meet force with force.

He dispatched a squadron of frigates to the Mediterranean and taught the Muslim nations of the Barbary Coast a lesson he hoped they would never forget. Congress authorized Jefferson to empower U.S. ships to seize all vessels and goods of the Pasha of Tripoli and to "cause to be done all other acts of precaution or hostility as the state of war would justify".

When Algiers and Tunis, who were both accustomed to American cowardice and acquiescence, saw the newly independent United States had both the will and the right to strike back, they quickly abandoned their allegiance to Tripoli. The war with Tripoli lasted for four more years, and raged up again in 1815. The bravery of the U.S. Marine Corps in these wars led to the line "to the shores of Tripoli" in the Marine Hymn, and they would forever be known as "leathernecks" for the leather collars of their uniforms, designed to prevent their heads from being cut off by the Muslim scimitars when boarding enemy ships.

Islam, and what its Barbary followers justified doing in the name of their prophet and their god, disturbed Jefferson quite deeply.

America had a tradition of religious tolerance. In fact Jefferson, himself, had co-authored the Virginia Statute for Religious Freedom, but fundamentalist Islam was like no other religion the world had ever seen. A religion based on supremacism, whose holy book not only condoned but mandated violence against unbelievers, was unacceptable to him. His greatest fear was that someday this brand of Islam would return and pose an even greater threat to the United States

This should concern every American. That Muslims have brought about women-only classes and swimming times at taxpayer-funded universities and public pools; that Christians, Jews, and Hindus have been banned from serving on juries where Muslim defendants are being judged; Piggy banks and Porky Pig tissue dispensers have been banned from workplaces because they offend Islamist sensibilities; ice cream has been discontinued at certain Burger King locations because the picture on the wrapper looks similar to the Arabic script for Allah; public schools are pulling pork from their menus; on and on and on and on….

It's death by a thousand cuts, or inch-by-inch as some refer to it, and most Americans have no idea that this battle is being waged every day across America . By not fighting back, by allowing groups to obfuscate what is really happening, and not insisting that the Islamists adapt to our own culture, the United States is cutting its own throat with a politically correct knife, and helping to further the Islamists agenda. Sadly, it appears that today America's STUPID leaders would rather be politically correct than victorious!

If you have any doubts about the above information, just Google “Thomas Jefferson vs. the Muslim World.

Ovation 20th Dec 2015 01:19

News that's bound to please everyone, regardless of their political viewpoint:

Salim Mehajer, the Deputy Mayor of Auburn City Council has been charged over vote fraud in the 2012 Council elections.

Sydney's most controversial deputy mayor, Salim Mehajer, could face up to 10 years in jail for allegedly forging documents to rig the 2012 Auburn Council ballot.
The Australian Federal Police confirmed on Sunday it had served court attendance notices on Mr Mehajer and seven of his associates for electoral fraud offences, after a referral from the Australian Electoral Commission in August 2012
Read more: Salim Mehajer facing 10 years in jail on vote fraud charges
Follow us: @smh on Twitter | sydneymorningherald on Facebook

http://www.smh.com.au/nsw/Mehajer facing 10 years in jail

maybe he's trying to emulate his father who served jail time:

Local developer Mohamad Mehajer had served part of a 3½ year sentence imposed in December 2013 for conspiring to cheat and defraud the National Australia Bank of more than $3 million

Eddie Dean 20th Dec 2015 02:33

Ethel, some interesting reading on Andrew Bolt's blog for you.

Peter O’Shaughnessy, writer and theatre director, ... recalls an occasion when ... John related a story over dinner: “ I was a bit amused, a bit chilled too, when, at table, he brought to mind some occasion when [Noela] had been flirting with someone. When they got home, she turned up the sheets prior to their getting into bed to find a sharp knife lying on the under-sheet. A warning, John told me - in her presence - of what might be in store for a a woman if she played false with her lover...” When Noela related the incident she described the shock of finding a long, black knife against the white sheets of her bed, and of the fear that drove her running from the house into the darkness, unable to return until dawn.
It's about artists turnbull and domestic violence

At ease 20th Dec 2015 04:24


News that's bound to please everyone, regardless of their political viewpoint:

Salim Mehajer, the Deputy Mayor of Auburn City Council has been charged over vote fraud in the 2012 Council elections.
It's not great news considering the implications of what is involved with electoral fraud which unfortunately happens in too many levels of government, but it is great news that this cockroach has had the spotlight turned on him and others of his family and associates.

Now for the Mortein. :ok:

Dark Knight 20th Dec 2015 04:30

PIERS AKERMAN: (my Italics)

Reaching out to the Muslim world, as President Barack Obama did at Cairo University in mid-2009, has been a huge failure. Since that speech, the much vaunted Arab Spring has turned into the bleakest of Arab winters.

Terrorist outfits spread their evil influence from northern Europe, the UK, France and south across the Mediterranean, and down through Africa. They’re in Afghanistan, Pakistan, the Philippines and Indonesia, with isolated breakouts in the US and Australia.

In the past three years, rulers have been toppled by extremists in Tunisia, Libya, Syria and Yemen, with protests in Algeria, Iraq, Jordan, Kuwait, Morocco, Sudan, Mauritania, Oman, Djibouti, Western Sahara, Mali, Lebanon, Gaza and the West Bank.

In all of these places and others there are jihadis who want to kill us because we are not them. In Paris, in San Bernardino, in Melbourne and Martin Place.

So prevalent has been the spread of this death cult’s nihilism that a new expression has been coined to describe the lawless Badlands. They are now designated as ungoverned areas or UGAs.

Obama’s reach-out policy is the same reach-out policy being promoted by Prime Minister Malcolm Turnbull and, alarmingly, the head of the domestic security agency ASIO, former soldier Duncan Lewis.

Relentlessly promoted by the taxpayer-funded ABC and the Fairfax media, despite the evidence of its failure, schools and universities are churning out young people who think a group hug will turn a jihadist’s mind every time.

Cowed by years of politically correct condemnation, and with political leaders succumbing to moral panic, many Australians no longer speak out knowing their views will be mocked by people whose salaries they, the taxpayers, bankroll.

This unrelenting pressure from those in our society who could justifiably be labelled useful idiots, to use Stalin’s description of the well-meaning idiots who put a gloss on communism’s worst atrocities, means the freedoms consistent with liberal democracy are being whittled away by those entrusted to protect them.

This misguided and destructive approach is evident across the board at every level of Australian society from local governments which ban nuclear fuel but not nuclear medicine, to the president of the Human Rights Commission, Gillian Triggs, who politicised her office with her strategically timed attacks on the Abbott government, to ICAC Commissioner Megan Latham, who viciously used her office to pursue Crown prosecutor Margaret Cunneen, and now ASIO director-general Duncan Lewis’s clumsy effort to ¬direct the activities of elected representatives.

Lewis, a former soldier, warned some Coalition MPs on the manner in which they should speak about Islamist extremism.

There are accepted boundaries in a democracy from those who are elected and those who are paid to carry out the wishes of the government.

Lewis overstepped that boundary. He can advise but he must be careful about instructing.

While appropriate measures must be taken to protect and defend the citizenry, the values we cherish in our liberal democracy cannot be compromised.

Islamic terrorists, whether they belong to ISIS, Boko Haram, the Haqqani network, Hezbollah, Hamas, al-Nusrah, al-Qaeda, the Houthi or any of the myriad mutations, are real, and, according to surveys taken in the US, UK, and Australia, enjoy a remarkable degree of support from members of the resident Muslim populations, especially among 18- to 24-year-olds.

Westerners must be free to talk about the groups whose members are committed to killing those who will not follow their extremist ideology — including fellow Muslims.

Yet while the threat is identifiable, indeed, it self-identifies through a resoundingly skilful propaganda campaign, it is beyond ironic that on almost every campus across Australia and within the ABC and Fairfax, those nations at the forefront of the struggle against the death cult are held in utter contempt.

Israel is regarded as a pariah state and the Iranian view that the US is the great Satan goes largely unchallenged, along with the views of the corrupt Palestinian Authority, the Grand Mufti and the self-appointed spokesmen for the Australian Muslims.

In the New Year, the West must come up with a better plan than German leader Angela Merkel’s open border strategy. It must come up with a better plan than bombing IS.

New thinking is required.

Instead of trying to rebuild Syria, Libya and Iraq within the artificial borders created in 1916, it may be wiser to permit clans and tribes and feudal leaders to decide their own borders locally.

But we must be able to talk freely about this catastrophe if peace on earth is to exist beyond our hymnals.

Finally, may I wish all The Sunday Telegraph’s readers a Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year.

See you in February.

(What the `useful idiots' fail to understand is should those who wish to destroy OUR freedoms succeed the first eliminated are the `useful idiots' as they are of no use, a nuisance to the destroyers!)

Stanwell 20th Dec 2015 06:18

I would be careful about putting too much store in the ramblings of someone like Piers Ackerman.
After all, he's just another Murdoch mouthpiece - and not a particularly savoury one at that.
He likes himself to be seen as a thoughtful person of some intellectual capacity. Those that have monitored his performance
over the years would not necessarily agree.

While some of the statements he makes in support of his arguments have a ring of truth about them, that's just a basic, time-honoured
technique of journalism.
So, in his final pontification for the year, he spends most of the column stating the bleeding obvious as a vehicle from which to further
the News Limited/Fox agenda.

Now, don't get me wrong. The head-in-the-sand PC brigade have managed to convince a few too many gullible, peace-loving people that
a group hug and a few bars of Kumbaya will fix everything.

On the other hand, the taxpayer has just funded an expensive 'fact-finding' mission to the middle-east for those notable junketeers,
Bronwyn Bishop and Christopher Pyne.
How did they handle that? Not very well, I'm afraid.
I won't go into detail because the media have covered that well enough.
Of course, both of those are noted for their objectivity and diplomatic skills, aren't they?

Anyway, must run now.
I've lots of Christmas shopping to do and a heap of good-will and cheer for everybody - as long as they behave.

Hempy 20th Dec 2015 07:39

Gotta love bandwidth wasting mega-posts when a simple link to the original would suffice completely.. :ugh:

Eddie Dean 20th Dec 2015 18:12

Hempy, NBN mate, no problems with bandwidth.

MTOW 20th Dec 2015 20:15

On the other hand, the taxpayer has just funded an expensive 'fact-finding' mission to the middle-east for those notable junketeers,
Bronwyn Bishop and Christopher Pyne.
Bronwyn Bishop? Say it isn't so. Let it be the other soundslikeacleric. Bronwyn would scare the camels.

There's a link somewhere (I think on the Pickering site) to someone's list of what to dos for the next election. One of his ideas was for the conservatives in ChristOPHER Pyne's electorate to see him rolled. I'd move house to South Australia temporarily and register to vote if I thought it would make the difference in seeing that plan realised. Whilst I don't agree with all the points raised by the fellow on the Pickering site, it would be good to see some of them put into practice. I'll see if I can find the link.

Flying Binghi 21st Dec 2015 01:33

via Hempy:
Gotta love bandwidth wasting mega-posts when a simple link to the original would suffice completely..
Heh, ah likes them posts because poor ol Hempy carnt challenge the content of the posts..;)

By the by, anyone else having trouble getting sputniknews.com ?
I've been following the Russian news slant on China telling the Oz airforce to fleck-off. The site just wont work for me...


Eddie Dean 21st Dec 2015 02:31

Flying Binghi has nailed it

Stanwell 21st Dec 2015 03:16

Mind if I briefly comment?

".. carnt challenge the content of those posts".
Ahem. Hello?
It takes no towering intellect to deconstruct the opinion pieces of the likes of Ackerman, Bolt, Price and co.
So why would he bother?
Come up with some original thought yourself - rather than re-publishing slabs of tabloid journalism from the Murdoch stable.
BTW, what's happened to Alan Jones? He's been a bit quiet lately.

Like you, Binghi, I've not been able to access sputniknews, either - so it's not just you.
China and its territorial ambition is shaping up to be an interesting sideshow.

MTOW 21st Dec 2015 03:23

Stanwell, I don't think I'm alone in wishing Alan Jones would go on holidays for a considerably longer period than he's currently taking for the Chrissy break. So enjoy his absence as much as he's enjoying the break.

Getting back to politics; elsewhere, someone's saying that Christopher Pyne is worried he might lose his seat in the coming election. I suppose we can only hope his concerns prove to be well-founded.

fujii 21st Dec 2015 03:52

Can't, not carnt.

Dark Knight 21st Dec 2015 05:40

It is all very easy to attack the writer, play the man, cast unjustified aspersions upon the character of said writer and their employer: how does one know or can substantiate whether the writer is directed how he should write?

What is the policy of the Murdoch press and their leanings?

All very easy to throw around these lines without any justification and it is my recollection from time to time the Murdoch press has been particularly friendly to the Dark Side i.e. the Socialists.

The thrust of what is written about is at this time more important than the authenticity of the writer.

How do we handle the threat we, our country, freedoms and lifestyle face?
Is it fair we demand Muslims living here; Granted the Privilege, Given the Permission to emigrate and live here gaining citizens ship adopt Our way of life?

Is it right we demand they do not foist their supposed religion upon us or seek to change Our ways?

Is it right we demand they speak our long and vociferously condemning their preachers of hate insisting these preachers change their ways or Leave?

The debate which must occur is not ad hoc immature, unsubstantiated ramblings attacking the man but a serious look at our freedoms and lifestyle to ensure these continue and improve.

It is a debate our politicians must allow to happen and be part of with their fellow Australians.

SOPS 21st Dec 2015 07:47

Well said DK. The sooner we get over this fear of offending muslims, the better. I get offended when they won't integrate, try and demand we change our ways, so they are not offended.

We must have the debate, without fear of offending these people. If they are offended by living in Australia, then they can always go.

Stanwell 21st Dec 2015 08:04

Now that's more like it, DK.

I do agree that the issues raised deserve full, frank and open debate.

It's just a shame that you wasted some 40% of your post trying do defend 'Citizen Rupert' and his minions.
When referring to Ackerman & co, I was speaking more generally than just of the subject at hand.

If, however, you see my post as simply the immature casting of unjustified and unsubstantiated aspersions, then so be it.
I would point out, though, that the substantiation is freely available out there in the public domain - for all to see.

Anyway, I'll conclude by echoing your last line...
"It is a debate our politicians must allow to happen and be part of with their fellow Australians."

RJM 21st Dec 2015 09:03

Stanwell, you set up 'Citizen Rupert' as the source of the views you find inappropriate, then you object to people supposedly regurgitating unthinkingly what you say are Murdoch's opinions.

Suggesting the evil Murdoch as the source of an opinion you disagree with doesn't win you the argument. It doesn't matter what the source is anyway - you should address the argument not the supposed source.

Ackerman's piece includes claims of facts as well as the inferences he draws from them. Do you dispute the facts? If you do, stating which and why would be a good start, rather than simply dismissing the argument because of the bad source you posit. You could then move on to disputing Ackerman's conclusions.

Stanwell 21st Dec 2015 09:25

If you read that post (19364) again, you'll see that I pointed out that it's an old journalistic technique.
It gives apparent credibility to whatever angle you're pushing.
Very helpful for people who are into 'creative writing'.

Once again, I'm not arguing with the subject of the opinion piece in this instance - just the spin.

Eddie Dean 21st Dec 2015 09:55

Stanwell, You are better at splitting hairs, and definitives as well, than anyone I know.

Therefore I call Bullsh1t on your last post.

Atleast man up and defend your position, rather than twist and squirm around.

Stanwell 21st Dec 2015 10:14

Cut it out please, Eddie.
There's no twisting and squirming and.. no bullsh1t either.
Perhaps things might become a little bit clearer to you if you carefully read the relevant posts.

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