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-   -   War in Australia (any Oz Politics): the Original (https://www.pprune.org/jet-blast/477678-war-australia-any-oz-politics-original.html)

SOPS 2nd Jul 2015 09:26

I lived in The ME for 9 years, MTOW. I know ecactly what you speak of.
But our huggy fluff legal type people just seem to want to bend over for them.

I also suggest he goes and does Ramadam in Syria.

Worrals in the wilds 2nd Jul 2015 10:44

So... the solution?:confused:
Do we also revert to the law of the jungle/desert because that's what they expect? If we do that, don't we descend to their level?

I'm not personally opposed to crab-pot justice (as both a Queenslander and a trade unionist :E:suspect:), but... where does it end? Our society is basically Anglo and as such, subscribes to the rule of law. Rule of law does not imply freedom or 'rights', but it does provide that one set of rules apply to all people in a non-arbitary fashion. It also provides for a fair trial, conducted in public.

Of course this is not the Middle-Eastern way, but it's our way. If we move away from that, then we move away from principles that were established within our culture in the 10th century and furthered throughout the following ten centuries to give us the systems of law and governance that we now hold dear.

If we succumb to their system and start applying their rules, then we do more harm to our own system than thousands of murderous yobs in Syria could dream of :(. We become as bad as they are, and the jungle/desert takes over.

Remember what you care about; remember what you believe in. There are times when the rule of law will look weak and impotent. There are times when the rule of conquest will look like a better option; easier, and a better way to quell the :mad:wit loudmouths who rejoice in killing people who are weaker than them.

When that's the case (and I've found that the 'kill 'em all' ethos has had some appeal recently) remember what the rule of law is about. Habeas corpus, mandamus...the old writs; rarely used in courts these days, but they are still valid and more importantly, they are still fundamental concepts that underpin our common and statute law. They (and other basic principles) are what separates us from IS and other murderous thugs who would seek to reinstate the law of the gun.

If ever you think it's easier to stray from these principles, you'd be right. It is easy, but when a society denies fair trials, when it hides the process, when it locks people up without judgement, when it permits public officials to act without redress and when it takes the easy way in the name of what's Right... it becomes as bad as they are, and surrenders everything that was achieved over so many centuries.
Then they win, and we're all as bad as each other. :sad: Let them despise us; last time I looked, a bunch of people were wanting to come here from there, not the other way around. Apart from a few troublemakers the majority are doing their best to settle in (which isn't easy), working their butts off and putting their kids through school. Maybe that says something about the system they left.

Pinky the pilot 2nd Jul 2015 10:54

A very good argument Worrals, and of course in principle I agree with you.

But how are you going to get those Middle Eastern types now living here in Australia to agree to accept our Laws and ways?

The above is a genuine question as I have absolutely NFI how we could do it!:confused:

My personal opinion is until we do find such a way, and those abovementioned types accept the Western/Aussie way that we meet any force from them with greater overwhelming force!

Interpret that how you wish, anyone!

ah suppose with out them lawyers it'd be pistols at 20 paces. One body, one winner...
I must sadly admit to times where I think that the above would be a better idea!:sad:

But then again, I`m a good shot with a pistol, if I may say so.:ooh::O

Hempy 2nd Jul 2015 11:00

As Worrals says, the words 'accused' and 'alleged' are, at this stage, a big part of the story. You can't pick and choose who gets 'fair' and who doesn't based on race, creed, religion, orientation etc. Not in this country...unless you want to lower yourselves to their standards.

He'll have his day in court, and if '12 men good and true' find him guilty, he wont be spending Ramadan in a Mosque any time soon. Until then though, trial by PPRuNe doesn't count...(I'd be doing 20+ hard labour for sure).

SOPS 2nd Jul 2015 11:32

Ok, never let it be said that I live on the far right all the time, I accept Worrals thoughts, and tend to agree.....with one however....they can't have it both ways, the accept our laws and way of life, or they don't. If they don't, they leave.

410 2nd Jul 2015 12:07

Police have raided the offices of Labor parliamentarian Noreen Hay, (the same Noreen Hay who starred in the ICAC inquiry into Woolongong Council some years ago). It would seem that Ms Hay might owe her election, which she won by a very few votes, in part to a largish number of people who moved into the electorate immediately before the election - and every one of them moved to the same address, a house that is owned to one of Ms Hay's supporters.

Shades of Sophie Mirabella's narrow loss in the Victorian electorate of Indi.

Surely this, if true, (the allegations have not been proven yet), should be sufficient evidence that electoral reform is overdue and must be introduced immediately - certainly before the introduction of same sex marriage. Photo ID at the very least, but also an electronic voter's register and a revocation of the change that Bob Hawke introduced allowing voters to vote in any booth - all these must be introduced before the 2016 election. Any Party that resists these changes is admitting that it is paerty to electoral fraud.

Stanwell 2nd Jul 2015 12:23

"If they don't, they leave."

Erm, what are the chances of that happening, do you think?
You don't seem to realise that God (Allah) is on their side and that they will ultimately prevail. Got it?

RJM 2nd Jul 2015 13:22

electoral reform is overdue
So is reform of the Labor Party. It must stop being a means to personal advancement and return to being a vehicle for delivering social justice as it once was.

oicur12.again 2nd Jul 2015 16:09

"The Arabs who have moved here cannot believe that our legal system bends over to accommodate them"

I dont live in oz anymore but could someone give several examples of how the oz legal system "bends to accomodate" Arab folk?

Can Arabs speed down freeways without triggering the flashing of blue lights? Can they overstay a parking meter without a ticket? Maybe they can commit murder?

What exactly is happening in oz to make you insecure folk think that 1% of the population is going to change the legal system for the remaining 99% of uninformed boguns?

Takan Inchovit 2nd Jul 2015 20:45

What exactly is happening in oz to make you insecure folk think that 1% of the population is going to change the legal system for the remaining 99% of uninformed boguns?
Does something tell you otherwise?

RJM 2nd Jul 2015 20:56

Fair enough, then he probably ran it and wore the risk.
Worrals, the apportion of costs have yet to be considered by the courts. Given the courts determination that it was primarily the headline and advertising banner that defamed Hockey rather than the text of any articles by the media involved, Hockey could bear some of the costs and may not receive the full benefit of the damages awarded him.

RJM 2nd Jul 2015 21:05

I dont live in oz anymore but could someone give several examples of how the oz legal system "bends to accomodate" Arab folk?
oicur12.again, I suggest that the recent instance of Zaky Mallah's statements on the ABC program Q&A are an example of at least the accommodation of a large proportion of the public of an 'Arab's un-politically correct opinions.

If a mature white male, especially a conservative one, had made the same comments on Q&A and in the associated tweets, he would have been pilloried by that same proportion of the population. That's not the same as being accommodated by the legal system, but Mallah's appearance on the program and the ABC's defence of it is certainly indicative of a level of accommodation offered by society.

Saltie 2nd Jul 2015 22:30

Oicur12, one example that springs to mind is mothers and other family members in court screaming abuse and threats at the magistrate and witnesses when their son is sentenced. If an Anglo did that, she'd be charged with contempt. Ladies wearing a veil are not - our courts make allowances for 'cultural differences'.

Also Carlita Matthews, after video evidence proved she has perjured herself, got off because - because the woman who delivered the complaint to the police station was wearing full face cover - it could not be proven to have been Ms Matthews. Even though she had spoken on TV accusing the policeman of tearing off her veil.

After the Cronulla riots, convoys of BMWs came into beach suburbs and burned out cars. I did not hear of one arrest over that, but I'm sure there would have been hundred of traffic cameras showing the number plates of the cars in those convoys.

RJM 2nd Jul 2015 23:07

It looks as though the coming ALP conference is not going to be about policy, but about the maintainance of union power within the ALP.

With union membership at around 17% of the workforce, the ALP Left is demanding that 50% of delegates at the ALP national conference and in state ALP bodies be union appointees, with the conference to take place yearly instead of triennially. Unions would also have a 50% vote for Senate candidates, equal to the combined vote of MPs and the rank and file.

In other words, unless opposition to a union proposition was unanimous in the ALP's national and state forms, the union would prevail.

In a nice Orwellian touch, the AMWU which is sponsoring the move says that its intention is to 'democratise the ALP and to ensure that the critical voice of unions is heard.'

rh200 3rd Jul 2015 04:13

As much as I like Tony and W, but taking the p!ss is very Australian.

All he needed was a victory banner behind him in one of the photo's

Hempy 3rd Jul 2015 07:12


If he flew on board in a 2 seater, it would have been worth the 'tea and bikkies' for the jock to make him hurl :yuk:, or at least 'go to sleep' for a few seconds. Tool :hmm: :ugh:

bosnich71 3rd Jul 2015 07:52

"Tool"....that's a good description for some including some on this blog.

bosnich71 3rd Jul 2015 07:57

Saltie ....I was in Brighton Le Sands shortly after the Cronulla troubles and saw a some of the problems caused by the "BMW" drivers. I took refuge inside the RSL there.Didn't read anything about it in the MSM and I've never seen any documentary on SBS so perhaps it was all a dream.

Saltie 3rd Jul 2015 09:05

Yes, it's quite amazing the way the whole MSM self-censored over the Lebbo's reaction to the original flare up, isn't it? We never saw a mention of the car burnings - and neither did we see any mention of what set off the Aussie Bogans. It was all raaaascist Boga Aussies. And nothing else.

I saw first hand the bloody packs of Lebbo's 'playing soccer' on the beach years earlier - terrorising any young woman they could and daring any Lone Aussie male to react.

SOPS 3rd Jul 2015 11:35

Having worked with Lebs in the ME, they have a very different ( strange ) attitude. They are convinced that all women find them irresistible. And those that don't can be "convinced".

If I tried a quarter of the stuff I saw them try and pull off, I would have been up on sexual harassment charges so quick, I would not have known what had hit me.

But the Lebs seemed to be able to get away with it, and cause mayhem and chaos amongst the female crew.

MTOW 3rd Jul 2015 12:31

Back in the early 90s, we had a Lebanese steward in my airline, a really good looking bloke (no jokes please, he really was). He was running three Australian female cabin crew at the same time - and all three knew about the other two, but each and every one of them "knew" that "she" was "the one" and that the other two "meant nothing to him".

He was up on the flight deck having a break once on a long night flight when he said to something I've repeated many, many times - and to absolutely no avail if it was to Australian (or other Western) female. He said: "Ahh, Aussie girls, I love 'em; it's like clubbing baby seals." (I kid you not. This is not something I heard of second hand. I heard those said word myself.)

Whenever I'd tell that tale to some star-struck (almost always new to the Middle East) Aussie girl, she would nod wisely and assure me that her man was different.

This was so widespread that we had a acronym to cover it: "MMID", for "My Mohammed Is Different". Almost without exception, within 12 months, you'd run across the same girl, no longer star struck after she's been replaced by "fresh meat" (the Lebbo boys' term for a new intake of trainee females from the West, fifty or more of whom who arrived almost monthly), who would then admit that THAT particular Mohammed had turned out not to be different. But it was amazing how often they'd latch on to another Mohammed who they'd convince themselves would this time be different.

I had to give the Lebbos their due - they could court a woman like few men from the West could - or would. But for most of them, it was the thrill of the chase. After they'd bedded the girl, they'd quickly move on to the next conquest - unless they'd managed to get the girl to take out a large loan to set up a business for them - which had to be only in the male's name in Dubai - or buy a car for them.

Then they'd stick around for a while - but not always. I knew one girl who married her Mohammed, took out a huge loan to set up his business and then, after she got sick of him bonking all her (supposedly close) friends, ditched him, but lost the car she's bought him (that was registered in his name) and had to pay out another very large business loan as well herself, which he refused to acknowledge. She said it was worth it just be rid of him. But she was locked in to Dubai for years until she could pay off the two loans. (Again, not a second hand story - I knew this girl well and she told me all the details herself.)

I also must stress that most of these guys were a very different kettle of fish to the vast majority of Lebbos we see out here.

Saltie 4th Jul 2015 11:59

Lots of the talking heads on TV seem to assume if the SSM question goes to a plebiscite, it will be a shoo-in for the Yes vote. I' not so sure.

There are a lot of first generation Australians here now from very conservative cultures who I think will vote No. Then again, I might be wrong.

Ethel the Aardvark 4th Jul 2015 12:21

Wow, are we back onto the Lebanese bashing again, the righties were only doing this about 8 pages back, if I had time I could go back over the threads and predict which community next will be attacked and labeled by the actions of the few. Or are they just blindly following the shock jock lead?
It's nice to see the lady that dum dum and Pyne so vervaciously admired in parliament for being an honourable person and whistleblower has allegedly stolen more than the people she informed on. You couldn't make this stuff up!

Saltie 4th Jul 2015 12:31

Have to agree that Ms Jackson seems to be as dodgy as hell, Ethel. But she did shop Williamson and Thomson, so, however dodgy she may be, we have to thank her for that.

oicur12.again 4th Jul 2015 18:19


“Does something tell you otherwise?”

Just look at the implications behind some of the posts on this page alone.

About 2% of Australians are Muslim. Lets get way out there and pretend 50% of these folk would like to have you “succumb to their system”. That means you fear 1% of the population.

This is not rational.

This issue is not about Muslims forcing Australia to move away from “our way” or “succumb to their system” or “bend over for them”. Its about having your attention diverted away from ineffective Government policy onto the classic fake problem/manufactured solution that Governments resort to when they are out of ideas.

“Do we also revert to the law of the jungle/desert because that's what they expect?”

“Of course this is not the Middle-Eastern way, but it's our way. If we move away from that . . . .”

“If we succumb to their system . . . . “

“But our huggy fluff legal type people just seem to want to bend over for them.

Takan Inchovit 4th Jul 2015 22:32

About 2% of Australians are Muslim. Lets get way out there and pretend 50% of these folk would like to have you “succumb to their system”. That means you fear 1% of the population.
100 snakes in a dark room, only one is deadly. Would you have no fear to walk in? It is only 1% after all.

RJM 4th Jul 2015 22:49

Well said. One random member of a crowd with a gun makes the crowd dangerous.

That's why our society sanctions crime. Only a tiny proportion of us may have criminal intent, but the effects of that proportion's success are unwanted, so we take measures against it.

It's a version of the precautionary principle in risk management championed by proponents of climate change: the effects of the fears becoming reality are serious, so we must take precautions.

Saltie 4th Jul 2015 22:55

Oic, I can only suggest that, living out of Australia as you do, you not worry about any of it. Either the wildly overstated and imagined changes that 2% are or are not bringing to the country or the overreaction of the crazy few who post here who don't like those imaginary changes. Nothing to be seen here. Move along.

RJM 5th Jul 2015 01:24

On the issue of the 'Islamic problem', saltie, time will tell who is is more right. You might consider, though, developments in France and Scandinavia, and consider the heavy security precautions next time you travel, their costs (which you pay) and the reasons for them.

As to 2% not mattering, indigenous Australians make up less than 2% of the population, and I would say that a considerably smaller proportion are gay and want to marry.

So, assuming that you are in Australia and your political views are 'progressive' rather than conservative, I suppose you would suggest that everyone ignores those two issues as well.

MTOW 5th Jul 2015 03:29

RJM, I think it would be a pretty safe bet that saltie would have inserted a "/sarc" icon at the end of his post if there was one. I really wonder what it will take to change the minds - or should that be 'remove the blinkers' - of those who keep telling us there's nothing to worry about with the fast growing* Islamic section of our society. They really are creating a parallel society within Australian society - and one that quite openly says it wants to remain separate from the rest of Australian society (except on Centrelink pay day).

*And far faster growing than all other sections of our society.

SOPS 5th Jul 2015 04:02

Here is a start....no English speaking? No welfare.

Worrals in the wilds 5th Jul 2015 09:20

I had to give the Lebbos their due - they could court a woman like few men from the West could - or would.
I dunno, Italians are pretty good at it. So are the Irish, but let's not go there :ouch::}.

On another note, if you are young enough (or old enough :\) to be familiar with the film The Breakfast Club, this Jules/Rudd version is pretty funny. :E

SOPS 5th Jul 2015 09:46

Come on Worrals, tell us, what makes the Irish so good?:O

Worrals in the wilds 5th Jul 2015 10:05

Blarney. :ouch:
He ended up marrying the next one off the conveyor belt, so as far as I'm concerned I got off lightly. :E:E:ok: MMID Syndrome is not limited to Mohammeds. MSID (with an S for Seamus) was equally contagious, particularly during the Aussie construction boom when plane loads of Irish subbies arrived on working 'holiday' visas.

MTOW 6th Jul 2015 04:46

Midday news says that 30 billion (that's Billion) dollars were stripped from the value of stocks on the ASM in one morning today in reaction to the Greeks' 'no' vote. While there will be some good buys to be had for the adventurous, I wonder, unless some quick fix is put in place by the EU banks, if the 'ripple' effect (some might describe it as something bigger than a 'ripple'!) will affect the lives of quite a few here?

The most obvious to be badly affected will be self-funded retirees, whose income from investments, already minimal, could be reduced even more, but I suspect it could 'ripple'(!) down to affect quite a few others as well.

Am I being alarmist, or could this sorry mess affect us all?

I'm gob-smacked to see tens of thousands of Greeks celebrating the overwhelming 'no' vote. Where do they think the money they're voting themselves to continue to receive will be coming from?

Terry Dactil 6th Jul 2015 05:07

I remember a quote somewhere around here about democracy being stuffed once the people realise they can vote goodies for themselves. It ties in nicely with the one about socialism being great until you run out of other people's money.

parabellum 6th Jul 2015 07:23

What I wonder is just how much does the Greek situation really effect the Australian stock market and how much is panic induced selling by brokers who get paid for a transaction, be it up or down?

(I'm a cynical self funded retiree!).

Spain have now, like Greece, voted in a hard left government so will they be next?

RJM 6th Jul 2015 08:24

If nothing else, the value of the Euro will affect the cost of our imports and the price exports to the Euro zone.

Saltie 6th Jul 2015 13:35

The Greek gummit has a couple of wild cards apart from their outstanding loans to worry them. The tens of thousands of illegal immigrants transiting the country (I doubt if many will want to stay) and our friend Vlad, who could really make things interesting if he was to make them an offer they can't refuse.

I'm like others here. I cannot understand where the Greek people who voted no think the money to continue life as they've become accustomed to will come from. I see the dual Greek/Australian finance minister has resigned. Does that mean he'll come back here? Oh joy. I know where he'll fit in well.

chuboy 6th Jul 2015 23:20

Not one pro-Greek articles I've read anywhere has addressed the fact that fully half of Greeks simply do not pay their taxes.

Their budget deficit would become an equally large budget surplus if the government merely collected the rest of the taxes it was owed each year.

A lesson for any government that thinks it can afford to turn a blind eye to tax evasion. It all started with the richest in Greece thinking they needn't pay their taxes because they got nothing in return. It was a slippery slope from there and the attitude seems well and truly ingrained now.

I do feel for the young people of Greece who have been royally screwed over by their elders.

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