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Captain Sand Dune 7th Jul 2012 07:53


Still I would like to hear from the Liberal true believers as to the revelation that a CEO advised franchisees to increase prices and then blame the carbon tax.
I am no "Liberal true believer", rather a believer that this government is screwing the country to the wall, and therefore that Australia needs an election now. There's lots of us out there.
I assume you are referring to Brumby's managing director Deane Priest. Yup, a certified shyster who deserves whatever he gets. Still doesn't make the Carbon tax right now, does it?

allan907 7th Jul 2012 08:14

Brumby's man = cock up = loss of job.

Gillard et al = cock ups (on a grand scale) = still in job (but not for long)

See any kind of inconsistency there Lex?

Fubaar 7th Jul 2012 08:23

..and sliding under the radar -

ANOTHER boatload of Sri Lankan asylum seekers, this time 31 men and one girl, have made the long journey from home to Christmas Island.

The 32 passengers were transferred from their small fishing vessel to the island’s Flying Fish Cove this morning after their boat was intercepted late yesterday.

They are the latest in a surge of asylum seeker arrivals which is seeing boats being intercepted almost every day and, in some cases, twice daily.

Yesterday 38 Iraqi men, along with four Indonesian crew, were transferred to the island from Customs vessel the ACV Triton. The group had been on the Triton since last Friday when their asylum boat was intercepted at Ashmore Islands.

On Thursday, 162 Middle Eastern asylum seekers arrived after being picked up by the Navy on Wednesday when they claimed their vessel was in distress about 50 nautical miles south of Indonesia. The passengers were told to return to Indonesia but they refused.

The latest arrival this morning means passengers from 25 boats have arrived in Australia since Friday June 8.

This is really getting beyond a joke, and I damn near threw my coffee cup through the TV screen when that cretinous Milne woman came on screen prattling on abut "poor people struggling to make their way to Australuia to make a better lifr for themselves".

The Tamils now coming to Australia tried for 20+ years to "make a better life for themselves" in Sri Lanka by forcing young women to wear suicide vests and other novel "self improvement" schemes. They lost, and I don't see why Australia should accept a single one of them when they're ancestral home, where they can go if the don't like post war life Sri Lanka, is a short hop across the water from Sri Lanka in Tamil Nadu.

MTOW 7th Jul 2012 08:38


Labor's 'faceless men' target Greens without consulting PM

by: Peter van Onselen, contributing editor
From:The Australian
July 07, 201212:00AM

LABOR should consider preferencing the Greens last at the federal election, the party's NSW secretary Sam Dastyari says in a declaration of war on Julia Gillard's alliance partner made without consulting the Prime Minister.
I might not agree with Sam Dastyari's politics, but I can't fault his logic. The Greens have, almost singlehandedly, destroyed Labor (admittedly, with a huge helping hand from Julia Gillard, hence my 'almost').

How sensible this move is can be seen by how loudly Christine Milne is screaming. She recognises the truth - the Greens would disappear from the political scene without Labor preferences.

I know that when I vote, I start by putting the Greens as my very last preference and then fill in the rest. Anyone who has taken even the slightest interest in politics and has seen the disaster the Greens have been to Australia since 2007 would do the same.

RJM 7th Jul 2012 08:49

I agree. The Greens have been like an incredibly destructive cuckoo in the ALP nest. The Greens have even managed to give environmentalism a bad name.

It seems that Gillard welcomed the Greens because since she first considered politics, she has been about one thing and one thing only - achieving power as soon as possible, and the Greens looked like a handy stepladder.

The rest of them must have decided to hook their wagons to hers despite any misgivings. They must have thought they'd deal with any little problems as they arose. Now, the ALP is facing destruction.

I wouldn't be too surprised to see a new Centre Left party appear, cleansed of Gillard, Rudd and any Green associations.

I think there's a saying about 'power without judgment'. Gillard has always been a powerful force (inexplicably enough) but it seems that she is sorely lacking in judgment.

When you think about it, Gillard has left a trail of devastation in her wake, at least since she was 'a naiive young solicitor' at Slater and Gordon.

CoodaShooda 7th Jul 2012 09:04


I wouldn't be too surprised to see a new Centre Left party appear, cleansed of Gillard, Rudd and any Green associations.
I'd have thought that Rudd would be its leader.

By the way Lex. I've done a few of those on-line profiling thingies over the years and have always come up as Centre Left.

I consider the behaviour of Rudd/Gillard (but particularly Gillard) to be bordering on the Stalinist.

OK, we don't have the gulags but we have a lot more detention centres than in 2006 and are continuing to move towards limiting free speech, media control, internet contro,l diminution of the armed forces and welfare dependency.............comrade.

It's the behaviour of this government and not an inbred suspicion of all things labor that is pushing me towards the only alternative.

RJM 7th Jul 2012 09:11

Dunno about Rudd, even from a Labor point of view. A very clever guy, no doubt, but what is his real agenda?

Having been almost shredded by Gillard, would the ALP take a punt on Rudd? As Richo pointed out, they've made it hard for themselves with the that lineup of ministers describing him as the worst person on the planet. :ugh:

The howling and screeching from the Greens has begun:


NSW Labor right fires up Greens
BY ANDREA HAYWARD From: AAP July 07, 2012 5:23PM
The NSW Labor right faction has incensed the Australian Greens, pitting Greens leader Christine Milne against the party she helped form minority government in federal parliament.

allan907 7th Jul 2012 11:03

And all the rest of us have to do is to sit back and watch, and laugh, and revel in the self-inflicted injuries that the ALP have engineered for themselves and witness the exploding Watermelons.

http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c9...watermelon.jpg

It's going to be an entertaining few weeks. :E

Lex Talionis 7th Jul 2012 18:09

"Brumby's man = cock up = loss of job.

Gillard et al = cock ups (on a grand scale) = still in job (but not for long)

See any kind of inconsistency there Lex?"

Actually, Al there is no inconsistency at all.

Brumby's boss showed a complete disdain for their customers in an obvious and deliberate attempt of opportunism.He has now been forced to fall on his sword and I believe should now be prevented from holding such a position in any Australian business.

Politicians who do the same are shown the door at the next election which is what happened to John Howard in no uncertain fashion by not only losing the election but also his seat.Which is only the second time this has happened!

So nope there is no inconsistency at all but I think you might have a while to wait yet because the next Federal election is not due until Nov 2013 and as much as Tony Abbott and his supporters would like it I can't see Labor calling an early election.

As much as I am not in favour of the carbon tax the sky has not fallen in as Tony Abbott has prophesied so the longer the next election is away the less credibility that Tony Abbott has as an economic manager which is not really a surprise to most observers.

My only wish is that there was a third viable alternative because at the moment the proverbial drovers dog could win the next election for the opposition.

The problem is that there isn't.

RJM 7th Jul 2012 21:32

Lex, look at the Gillard government squarely and honestly. How can you justify the following deceitful behaviour by Gillard? No wonder she is like a lead weight to Labor. Our PM is a liar - she claimed to be considering Wilkies' poker machine reforms while in fact she had ditched them seven months earlier:


THE federal government secretly aborted an $800,000 anti-pokies strategy in mid-2011, tender documents show.

The revelation has prompted furious independent Andrew Wilkie to accuse Julia Gillard of deliberately playing dead on her deal with him.

The government pretended for a further seven months that it would honour its power-sharing deal with Mr Wilkie, before finally dumping him in January 2012 -- once it had wooed rogue Liberal Peter Slipper to defect.

Confidential tender documents obtained by The Sunday Telegraph show contracts were awarded to consultants to prepare for a communications strategy to sell the scheme to the public in April 2011, only to be suspended in June 2011.

Mr Wilkie said the documents showed the government was never serious about honouring its deal.
How's that for 'complete disdain' for those suffering the effects of problem gambling?

And as for consistency, why is Ashby fair game and Thomson not? (other than that Peter Slipper is propping up the government):


Julia Gillard’s excuse for refusing to comment on findings of rorting union funds made against MP Craig Thomson, who still faces no court:

"I continue to believe that it is inappropriate for this Parliament to pre-judge matters which will ultimately be dealt with by the courts."

Why doesn't that apply to James Ashby, whose claim of sexual harassment by Peter Slipper is indeed before a court?

"Federal minister Anthony Albanese had compared the Ashby case to Watergate and called for the Australian Federal Police to investigate Mr Ashby’s behaviour… "

Captain Sand Dune 7th Jul 2012 23:56


My only wish is that there was a third viable alternative because at the moment the proverbial drovers dog could win the next election for the opposition.
And on that point I concur.

RJM 8th Jul 2012 01:31

That may be a wish, but in reality there are two choices - Labor or Liberal. If the Labor government is so bad that a drover's dog could defeat it, that is no reflection on the Opposition.

Buster Hyman 8th Jul 2012 01:32

First of all, well done to Lex for coming back & arguing for the Watermelon/ALP coalition on current issues!

Secondly, I think , at least, I have argued in support of the Union movement previously. I do believe there is a place for trade unions to provide a voice for the worker, but not be the voice of Parliament.

Thirdly, you guys own the "true believers" tag for sticking with the red witch through thick & thin. No prizes for second. A real Labor Government wouldn't get half as much stick from the posters on this forum I reckon. I think you'd see more balance too.

As for the Brumby's boss, he deserved to go. No argument there. But you're drawing a long bow by equating his actions with that of all businesses in Oz.

RJM 8th Jul 2012 02:03

Well said, Buster, on all points.

RJM 8th Jul 2012 02:06

Christine Milne of the Greens this morning, warning about the dangers of Labor ditching the Greens -

Labor abandoning the Greens wil lead to a Liberal senate and to...WorkChoices!!!!

parabellum 8th Jul 2012 03:18


As much as I am not in favour of the carbon tax the sky has not fallen in as Tony Abbott has prophesied so the longer the next election is away the less credibility that Tony Abbott has as an economic manager which is not really a surprise to most observers.
Lex do you seriously believe that the effect of the carbon tax is going to be instantaneous? Gillard and cronies waffling on TV that the sky hasn't fallen in, prices haven't gone up etc. etc. is disingenuous in the extreme, (but typical), the effect will be felt when those who pay the tax pass it on to the consumer, somewhere between six and twelve months should do it, just in time for a general election!:ok:

Flying Binghi 8th Jul 2012 04:55


...Gillard and cronies waffling on TV that the sky hasn't fallen in, prices haven't gone up etc. etc. is disingenuous in the extreme...
Hmmm... they appear incapable of thinking more then a few weeks ahead on most things so they may very well be expressing genuine thoughts there...:)





.

Clare Prop 8th Jul 2012 06:26

A few weeks ahead... Like how many boats will have arrived by the time they get back to work in Canberra?

I think you're being generous there, I'd say they only understand the 24 hour media cycle because that's all thier spin doctors understand.

To insult our intelligence with all their "chicken little" stuff on July 1 shows both the contempt in which they hold us and the contempt in which we should hold them, anyone being stupid enough to think that this tax is anything other than putting us in the pot and slowly turning up the heat is naive in the extreme or brainwashed by party ideology.

HotDog 8th Jul 2012 06:50


anyone being stupid enough to think that this tax is anything other than putting us in the pot and slowly turning up the heat is naive in the extreme or brainwashed by party ideology.
"He who seeks to deceive will always find someone who will allow himself to be deceived. (Machiavelli.)

HotDog 8th Jul 2012 07:04


My only wish is that there was a third viable alternative because at the moment the proverbial drovers dog could win the next election for the opposition.

The problem is that there isn't.]
Yes there is Lex; go back to Greece and sort that mess out!:E

allan907 8th Jul 2012 10:11

Fpr once Lex I totally agree with you.


a complete disdain for their customers in an obvious and deliberate attempt of opportunism
That sort of behaviour should lead to an instant sacking. Much like this....



and that's why Labor will not be sitting on the Treasury benches following the next election. And the longer the Red Witch delays it the worse will be the drubbing.

OFSO 8th Jul 2012 10:41

And now Dame Edna has announced her retirement ! I always hoped she'd spring to the rescue and be your next Prime Minister, possums.

How much worse can it get ?!

MTOW 8th Jul 2012 13:14

And still they come...


AAP
July 08, 20127:21PM

UPDATE: A boat carrying an estimated 28 asylum seekers has been intercepted off Australia.

Home Affairs Minister Jason Clare said Customs and Border Protection officers intercepted the "suspected irregular entry vessel" at Cocos (Keeling) Islands this afternoon.

"Initial indications suggest there are 28 people on board," Mr Clare said.

The passengers have been taken to Christmas Island for security, health and identity checks.

The latest boat arrival comes after Prime Minister Julia Gillard today said the government's border protection committee will go ahead without Coalition participation.

Clare Prop 8th Jul 2012 16:35

It can be worse. If we lose Dame Edna then presumably we lose one of our finest diplomats as well.

http://i67.photobucket.com/albums/h3...x/sirles-1.jpg

:(

Andu 9th Jul 2012 01:33

Here it is folks - Gillard's election-winning killer punch, delivered just days before the polls in the 2013 election: “There will be no alliance with the Greens under a government I lead.”

woollcott 9th Jul 2012 02:23

Came home yesterday and found a Somali refugee in the back yard...............

Lex Talionis 9th Jul 2012 04:51


That sort of behaviour should lead to an instant sacking.
I know what you mean Al and I was thinking the same thing about Howard and his statement that a GST would never be a part of his agenda!:D

Then I remembered that he was given the sack so everything does work out for the best in the end doesn't it?

Yes there is Lex; go back to Greece and sort that mess out!
Why would I want to go to Greece HD but if you think they are looking for help and would benefit from your expertise then you are more than welcome to go there and help them out.

First of all, well done to Lex for coming back & arguing for the Watermelon/ALP coalition on current issues!
Buster,that's the problem with debates isn't it?You don't always get to pick the topic you are comfortable with and would like to discuss:D

I do believe there is a place for trade unions to provide a voice for the worker, but not be the voice of Parliament. But you're drawing a long bow by equating his actions with that of all businesses in Oz.
Of course not Buster,that's why we should only have the examples of corporate responsibility and pillars of society that should lead our political spectrum.That leads me to my next example of corporate leadership that we should all aspire to model ourselves on.
Buster,I guess you might have heard about the CEO and COO of Barclays then :roll eyes:
Why would we ever want ex union leaders in parliament when we can have ex business leaders who are such paragons of virtue.If you want me to send you any other examples of business leaders who have made themselves famous or should I say infamous by their actions just let me know because it is not just unionists,workers or the ordinary man in the street who gets caught out doing the wrong thing.:hmm:

So where exactly do you believe that our representatives in parliament should come from?

Instead of ex unionists do you think we should have more people like South Australian LIBERAL senator Mary-Jo Fisher.

Did she resign because of the allegations of shoplifting or because she did her own version of the Hokey Pokey.It looks like it's not only Labor politicians who think they are on a stage or men clowning around in fishnet stockings.

CoodaShooda 9th Jul 2012 05:11

Lex

I wasn't aware the CEO's and COO's of large banks saw a move into politics as career advancement.

Union officials on the other hand................


It looks like it's not only Labor politicians who think they are on a stage or men clowning around in fishnet stockings.
Agreed - but at least she has the good grace to go. I guess if she'd stolen $500,000 instead of $150, labor would be arguing strenuously for her to remain in Parliament?

PS I can only speak for myself but the reference to Howard and the GST just doesn't resonate as a winning debating point.

eagle 86 9th Jul 2012 05:21

Lex,
Here we go again - yes Howard said "no GST" but then he changed his mind - campaigned saying if he was elected there would be a GST - he won and there was. Juliar,on the other hand, campaigned on a "no co2 tax" got elected THEN changed her mind - a difference that might be a bit too subtle for you.
GAGS
E86

Lex Talionis 9th Jul 2012 05:28

Cooda,

My point is that suggesting that only unionists or people who used to be in a union are capable of illegal activity or should not be involved in politics is unjustified when business leaders including corporate bosses have been shown to be more than capable of the same thing.

The people who represent us in parliament should come from a cross section of society.

I guess if she'd stolen $500,000 instead of $150, labor would be arguing strenuously for her to remain in Parliament?
So if someone steals $150 or $1500 they are far more virtuous than someone who steals or misappropriates $500,000?

but at least she has the good grace to go.
Nothing graceful about her departure Cooda.

PS I can only speak for myself but the reference to Howard and the GST just doesn't resonate as a winning debating point.
Cooda,As far as I'm concerned if someone tells me that they will never do something and then later does it regardless of the notification I am concerned at what other little surprises they have in mind.

I could not agree more about Gillards statement about the carbon tax.She deserves everything she will get at the next election because of her handling it.

However,in regards to John Howard what part of "Never...Ever" changes after a matter of time since the original statement precludes a change in respect to time.

He like Gillard made an unequivocal statement and by his last election the Australian public had had enough of him just as they have with Gillard.

Personally,I take a person at their word and with his statement after the Liberal party had lost the election said to all and sundry that the Australian public had spoken and said that they didn't want a GST.So he would not be a part of any move to introduce a GST.
In reality he was thinking all along how can I get them to accept a GST.So like Abbott he was talking in terms of core promises and non core promises.

If he was really honest he could or should have said that the Australian public had not really had the GST explained to them and he would do that over the next 3 years but at the time all he could think of was getting the job and being elected just like every other politician.

I have said time and again this is one aspect of politicians that I dislike intensely.

To me it is nothing more than dishonesty.

GAGS,would you like me to list the other lies that Johnny made and none of them were subtle in any way.Breaking promises is not the sole domain of Labor and the Liberals have made more than their fair share of them.

CoodaShooda 9th Jul 2012 06:43


My point is that suggesting that only unionists or people who used to be in a union are capable of illegal activity or should not be involved in politics is unjustified when business leaders including corporate bosses have been shown to be more than capable of the same thing.
Sorry, I missed that suggestion. Who made it?


So if someone steals $150 or $1500 they are far more virtuous than someone who steals or misappropriates $500,000?
Not at all Lex. To my mind the amount is irrelevant. But I would refer you to the contrast with the "protection" of Craig Thompson. :E

I'm glad we can agree that politicians can be automatically regarded as being intrinsicly economical with the truth and short on deeply held principles.

Now that that is agreed, lets get back to discussing the contemporary competence and direction of our Federal Parliament. :ok:

Buster Hyman 9th Jul 2012 06:52


Buster,that's the problem with debates isn't it?You don't always get to pick the topic you are comfortable with and would like to discuss:D
No, but CURRENT issues are a good starting place. Besides, the ALP removed Work choices, so that's a dead issue, just like they removed the GST...oh wait...

Of course not Buster,that's why we should only have the examples of corporate responsibility and pillars of society that should lead our political spectrum.
Why is that so bad? :confused: Doesn't have to be corporate responsibility, just responsible people. You set your standards pretty low if you don't want that level of ability running the country Lex.

Sorry, I missed that suggestion. Who made it?
I'm with Cooda here. Who said that?

SOPS 9th Jul 2012 08:04

Ans meanwhile, almost under the radar, another boat with 23 onboard, has just rocked up at Xmas:ugh::ugh::mad::mad::mad:

allan907 9th Jul 2012 09:29


I know what you mean Al and I was thinking the same thing about Howard and his statement that a GST would never be a part of his agenda

He like Gillard made an unequivocal statement and by his last election the Australian public had had enough of him just as they have with Gillard.
:zzz::zzz::zzz:

It's been said before about going to an election with a proposal versus introducing something afterwards.

Howard's introduction of the GST was soooooo unpopular that he managed to win the election in:

1998

2001

2004

and lost in 2007 because of the "it's time" factor and the effective but disingenous campaign about workchoices put up by the Unions (not the ALP).

The Coalition Governments then left a big bag of gold which Rudd had managed to squander in a few short months and presided over a complete shambles which will take a long, long time to put back together again. Thanks very much Kevin O'Lemon and Jooliar. :yuk:

So, if Lex's polemic is the best that the left can produce then they are pretty much f**ked.

Andu 9th Jul 2012 10:47

Time to lighten the debate a little...
 
Prime Minister Gillard walks into the Commonwealth Bank of Australia to cash a cheque. As she approaches the cashier she says "Good morning , could you please cash this cheque for me"?

Cashier: "It would be my pleasure Miss. Could you please show me your ID?"

Gillard: "Truthfully, I did not bring my ID with me as I didn't think there was any need to. I am Prime Minister Julia Gillard, the Prime Minister of Australia !!!

Cashier: "Yes Miss, I know who you are, but with all the regulations, monitoring, of the banks because of impostors and forgers, etc I must insist on seeing ID."

Gillard: "Just ask anyone here at the bank who I am and they will tell you.
Everybody knows who I am."

Cashier: "I am sorry Prime Minister but these are the bank rules and I must follow them."

Gillard: "I am urging you please to cash this cheque."

Cashier: "Look Prime Minister this is what we can do: One day Adam Scott came into the bank without ID.
To prove he was Adam Scott he pulled out his putting iron and made a beautiful shot across the bank into a cup.
With that shot we knew him to be Adam Scott and cashed his cheque.
Another time, Pat Rafter came in without ID. He pulled out his tennis racquet and made a fabulous shot where the tennis ball landed in my cup. With that spectacular shot we cashed his cheque..

So, Prime Minister, what can you do to prove that it is you, and only you, as the Prime Minister of Australia ?"

GILLARD stood there thinking, and thinking and finally says: "Honestly, there is nothing that comes to my mind."
" I can't think of a single thing I'm good at."

Cashier: "Will that be large or small notes, Prime Minister?"

eagle 86 10th Jul 2012 02:05

Lex,
You brought up the gst not me - have you never ever broken a promise that has not hurt or disappointed someone?
GAGS
E86

Buster Hyman 10th Jul 2012 03:43

There's breaking a promise BEFORE an election, and there's breaking a promise AFTER an election. Very different, and I know which one I prefer...

Saltie 10th Jul 2012 04:47

I haven't heard, has today's boat arrived yet?

Ovation 10th Jul 2012 09:50

Saltie:


I haven't heard, has today's boat arrived yet?
It's right on schedule.

Distress call reported about an hour ago 45 miles off Indonesian coast. :ugh:

Buster Hyman 10th Jul 2012 10:42

Not even the Spirit of Tasmania keeps such a good schedule!


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