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Ovation 26th Jun 2012 08:10


AN ENTIRE 737 plane was chartered just to fly one injured asylum seeker from Christmas Island to Perth, it has emerged.

The aircraft, which usually carries around 130 passengers flew the man, a detention centre guard and an immigration to Perth on Saturday so the man could receive urgent medical attention.
So a 737 was used to fly one survivor to Perth for attention to his (lack of) two fingers severed in the capsize.

Made me recall when I was a kid and the circus was in town at the Traralgon show grounds. A fellow who'd had too much to drink stuck his hand into a Lion's cage and had two fingers promptly bitten off. I remember telling him he needed to see a doctor or go to casualty, but he was more concerned about which fingers he was now going to hold his cigarette between as the regular ones were missing. :)

They sure made em tough back in the old days!

priapism 26th Jun 2012 09:51

I reckon the Australian Government should tell Indonesia it will reduce it's annual foreign aid cheque by the amount it is costing us to process and keep these illegals. Perhaps that will make those little corrupt buggers to stop turning a blind eye to it.

parabellum 26th Jun 2012 10:31



I reckon the Australian Government should tell Indonesia it will reduce it's
annual foreign aid cheque by the amount it is costing us to process and keep
these illegals. Perhaps that will make those little corrupt buggers to stop
turning a blind eye to it.
No point, I'm afraid. There is no shortage of Indonesian police and all the riverside and coastal stations have, at least, HF radio, these are the people who need to be paid off but the smugglers have already got to them and Australia would simply be getting into a bidding war if it took them on.

Wiley 26th Jun 2012 23:18


There is no shortage of Indonesian police and all the riverside and coastal stations have, at least, HF radio, these are the people who need to be paid off
(My boldface).

People here and on other sites often cite how much cash the "New Australian" hopefuls who employ the people smugglers have to dish out to make it to Christmas Island. From (granted, fleeting) personal experience, I suspect it's an even more expensive exercise for these "asylum seekers" than most appreciate.

I was forced to take seven (male, Middle Eastern) pax back to Singapore from Jakarta a few years ago after their leader/spokesman told the Immigration bloke at passport control that he'd lost their money and they were unable to pay him the USD200.00 a head cash "visa fee".

From my experience of Indonesia over a forty+ year period, I suspect it would a very safe bet to say that that would not be the last such "fee" that they would face before boarding the leaky boat bound for Christmas island.

I, as captain of the aircraft, became quite closely involved in all the goings on between the Indonesian Immigration officers, our station manager and the spokesman for the seven pax (who spoke quite good English) by then and it was illuminating. The nationality of the (by then, very emotional) spokesman for the pax changed, (I think it was about) four times in as many minutes... I suspect to whatever he thought might tug at my heartstrings the most, for he "would be executed" if forced to return to Iran/Syria/Iraq/Palestine (as I said, the final destination changed again and again).

As soon as I was called, I asked the station manager to make sure there'd be no delays waiting for the baggage of the pax the Indonesians were refusing to accept, so I asked him to get their tickets and check the baggage tags. Seven pax, all of whom had boarded the flight in Dubai, and not one piece of checked baggage between the seven of them. Hand baggage? One - (not one each, but just one small carry on bag) between the seven of them.

At this stage, we were still trying to get the Indonesians to acept the seven pax, so I asked their leader why they were coming to Indonesia. "Business." Were the people they would be doing business with meeting them at bthe airport? "Yes." So would it be possible to contact their business partners and ask them to pay the "visa fee"? "No, that would not be possible."

By the time the group leader "found" the necessary money, it had all become way too public for Indonesian Immigration, and the Indonesians refused to back down. We were refused Customs clearance to return to Singapore unless we took the seven pax back, (which I think - [memory fails me] - involved off-loading a couple of outbound pax).

My guess, (and it's a guess backed up by no evidence at all), is that all seven pax were on the next evening's flight from Singapore back to Jakarta and all seven of them are now Australian passport holders, each of them now reunited with all their families (who've joined them under the Australian government family reunion plan), and are happily living the dream in public housing in Lakemba.

Worrals in the wilds 27th Jun 2012 02:18

Thanks for the story. I wondered what happened at the other end.

for he "would be executed" if forced to return to Iran/Syria/Iraq/Palestine (as I said, the final destination changed again and again).
So he never mentioned Pakistan? Funny about that. :suspect:
No-one ever seems to be from Pakistan. :E:}
Did they have passports of any kind?

david1300 27th Jun 2012 03:34

Todays boat didn't make it
 
Authorities are scrambling to avert a second disaster at sea after a boat believed to be carrying 150 Afghan asylum seekers - all of them said to be women and children - capsized 107 nautical miles north of Christmas Island.
Indonesian search and rescue agency Basarnas has told this website that the latest boat to sink was carrying women and children only.


Read more: Scramble to rescue children from ocean death


I cannot help but think back to whatever it was that the government was doing 6 or 7 years ago must have been working. From memory, 3 boats only in the first 6 months, and no disastrous losses of life like now. It seemed the people smugglers either knew that the process wouldn't work, or their potential clients new and so weren't prepared to come.

david1300 27th Jun 2012 03:47

My solution - set up an offshiore processing centre in Indonesia. Any arrivals on Christmas Island are immediately transferred back to Indonesia for processing. Processing is expedited by:
1 - having travel documents and/or identity documents so the applicant can be identified, and security checks can be completed.
2 - have documents, take a number from the dispenser marked 'A'.
3 - No documents, take a number from the dispenser marked 'B' which will be addressed as soon as we complete the numbers from the dispenser marked 'A'
4 - 'A' group completes application form and pays processing fee of $1,000 (figure sucked out of my thumb, estimated boat passage at present. Adjust if needed)
5 - target is to process approx 3000 applications a year.
6 - those that are approved after completion of security and medical checks, are offered refugee status/visas, and are transported to Australia in safety and integrated into Ausiie society (details available, but too lengthy to detail here).
7 - those not accepted/approved are advised, and they continue as they were before. Remember, if they now take a boat to Christmas Island or Australia, they are returned forthwith to Indonesia.

Simplistic, but probably far cheaper ultimately than what we currently face, and far, far safer for the 'refugees', the search and rescue crews, the Christmas Islanders, and the guards at detention centres.

SOPS 27th Jun 2012 04:39

Repeating again (in a awful Welsh/bogan accent) "Another boat, another policy failure" :ugh::ugh::ugh::ugh::ugh:

Andu 27th Jun 2012 07:51

Tony Abbott, and now Scott Morrison, on Sky TV announcing that in a (let's face it, doomed to fail) bid to get support for their amendments to Oakeshott's bill from the crossbenches, they will increase the refugee intake to 20,000 a year within three years.

I really don't think Abbott is reading pubic sentiment accurately on this issue.

Takan Inchovit 27th Jun 2012 08:35

I notice, with distain labor are using 'the Slipper slip ups affair' as a distraction to the more real problems ..... which is .... the government itself!

Clare Prop 27th Jun 2012 09:07

The Greens have said they won't support offshore processing so no way would anything agreed in the house of reps between Labor and the Coalition will get through the senate. So finally people might realise that the Greens are the ones with the most blood on their hands and they can stand there on what they see as the moral high ground while women and children drown.

Double dissolution trigger? Is this why Gillard has been too scared to act? Just think, we could get rid of the whole rotten lot of them and start afresh.

CoodaShooda 27th Jun 2012 09:14

I suggest that if the government and opposition agree to the bill (as amended etc), it will have no problem passing through the Senate.

Clare Prop 27th Jun 2012 09:17

Not according to a press conference by the Greens just now.

SOPS 27th Jun 2012 09:24

Thats the way I understood it as well, Clare. It seems the Greens will block anything that (to paraphrase) " does not let poor, vunerable people be processed in mainland Australia."

Worrals in the wilds 27th Jun 2012 09:38

If the Coalition vote with the ALP the Greens become very irrelevant very quickly. House of Reps: 71 (ALP) + 72 (Coalition) versus 7 (Cross bench, including 1 Green). Senate: 31 (ALP) + Coalition (34) versus 11 (Cross bench, including 9 Greens)?

The ayes have it. :E
The question is whether that will happen. If the major players could grow up for a change and nut out a bipartisan solution the Greens would be back to the irrelevance they deserve. I believe that's what the supporters of both major parties want; it's certainly the word round the campfire. Sort it out. Deal with it. Get together and govern for a change, without listening to the wailing of the minority parties. IMO both parties would gain respect from their members and supporters for doing so.

You can bet a year's party membership fee (whichever party that may be :}) that The Greens are counting on that not happening. Hence their supposed power.

In the interests of accuracy I think we should start referring to The Greens as The Green, as a true reflection of the one seat they hold in the House of Reps.:hmm:

RJM 27th Jun 2012 09:44

...aided and abetted by Ian Rintoul of the Refugee Action Coalition, who says 'people smugglers are humanitarian workers'. :ugh:

Worrals in the wilds 27th Jun 2012 09:52

And OMCG bikies are just blokes who like motorcycles and do toy runs for the kiddies.
There's an idiot with a soundbite for every occasion.

RJM 27th Jun 2012 10:09

I'm scratching my head...

What mandate do the Greens have to stop legislation agreed to by both major parties? The Greens have about 12% of the vote.

Tonight, Greens leader Milne said:

'There are people who actually want to deter asylum seekers! We should be welcoming the desperate people who are trying to get here. Our objective ought to be to give refugees safe pathways to Australia.'

'John Howard wasted millions on the appalling Pacific Solution which didn't stop people coming.'

Here's the truth on which the Greens base their position, which is more about growing their electoral base than any sort of sound policy. The pause in boat arrivals under Howard's Pacific Solution, and the result of Gillard's personal dismantling of it, are clear:


parabellum 27th Jun 2012 13:04

Last report I heard tonight said boat remained seaworthy until rescue was in sight, then it was sabotaged from within.

Andu 27th Jun 2012 13:12

I don't understand why the survivors are being brought to Christmas Island. Surely they should be taken to a port within the same jurisdiction as was the area the boat foundered.

These last two sinkings must surely reinforce the fact that the most successful game plan for all future boats would be to sink the boat as soon as a rescue vessel- an Australian rescue vessel - is in sight? Time will tell...

SOPS 27th Jun 2012 13:42

Agree Andu, thats sounds like a sure fire plan. Lets wait and see how many boats "sink" in the future. Perhaps a warning could be sent out..Australia has a finite number of rescue vessels, if too many boats start "sinking", we may not be able to find them all.

Andu 27th Jun 2012 22:04


Lets wait and see how many boats "sink" in the future.
(Yet) another one "in distress" this morning. They've discovered an excuse for arriving without documentation. "Lost my passport when the boat sank." (But I'll bet the money belt survives.)

Gillard is still playing politics. If she really wants to fix the problem (as she says she does) she'd have come up wit a plan acceptable to both major parties so they can bypass the crazy Watermelons in the Senate.

I'd be interested to see if Liberal backbencher Mal Washer survives pre-selection for his seat when the election is eventually called.

Buster Hyman 27th Jun 2012 23:43

So...let me get this straight...

When a new Govt. is formed, all the bad stuff gets blamed on the previous Govt. In the case of illegal immigrants, the policy was working until the current Govt. stuffed it all up. So, instead of being able to blame the Opposition for their past policy, she's blaming the Opposition for not fixing HER current problem.

Is that about right? Perhaps a true believer could come back & set me straight?

Ovation 28th Jun 2012 00:05

There's another big player in this current fiasco, and that's the Indonesian authorities and government.

There is corruption in the military, police and immigration control that allows the illegal immigrants to pay the "unofficial tax" and they are waved through - and why should they care? They know full well these people are headed for Australia and if they can make a quid out of it, why not?

As well, the Gillard government is sh!t scared of the Indonesians and will not stand up to them on this issue.

Andu 28th Jun 2012 00:08

My only source for this is the Andrew Bolt bl*g, submitted by an anti Andrew Bolt/Liberal poster (pointing out the failures of the Howard/Abbott policies. If it's true, is it any wonder people get on boats to come here uninvited? The inmates really have taken over the asylum.

Eleven-year-old Iranian refugee boy, Shayan Badraie, who suffered psychological injuries during his time spent inside Australia’s immigration detention centres, will receive a Federal Government payout of AU$400,000 in compensation. The government will also pay his family’s legal bill of more than $1 million.

Worrals in the wilds 28th Jun 2012 00:20


Is that about right? Perhaps a true believer could come back & set me straight?
I think so. Good, eh. :(
They refused to listen to their own departments on this. Senior staff from Immigration and Customs both warned them this would happen but they were ignored (and called 'turkeys' by Bob Brown at a later date; that's how much the respect The Greens have for border protection).

This is not a government that likes to listen to facts, bad news or anything that contradicts their happy-clappy world view. When it all goes wrong, their only MO seems to be to blame the opposition who never agreed with the policy in the first place. :ugh:

david1300 28th Jun 2012 00:35

Boat may have been sabotaged: Indonesia
 
An asylum-seeker boat which sunk en route to Australia was sabotaged by those aboard the vessel, a senior official with Indonesia's search and rescue agency says.
MORE than 120 asylum seekers have been rescued from the boat which capsized and then sank on Wednesday morning about 107 nautical miles north of Christmas Island.
Prime Minister Julia Gillard has confirmed that 123 people had been rescued.
The boat, which was believed to be carrying more than 130 asylum seekers, was in Indonesian waters when it sank.
But the head of operational control with Basarnas, the Indonesian search and rescue authority, told AAP that it was believed the boat had been sabotaged by those on board.
"As they're getting closer to Christmas Island, they made their boat look like they're about to sink," Agolo, who has only one name, said on Wednesday.

Rescue authorities had been told by those aboard the vessel that its generator had stopped working and that the boat had started taking on water.

"They probably feared that if the boat is still in good condition, they would be rejected and must sail back," Agolo said.
Two Australian naval vessels were assisting the rescue effort.
Three merchant vessels were also at the scene while an airforce P3 Orion plane was assisting the rescuers.
Indonesia had deployed a Hercules aircraft to help with the search and rescue operation.
The latest incident comes a week after an overcrowded boat capsized en route to Australia, leaving about 90 people dead.

Source: Boat may have been sabotaged: Indonesia | The Courier-Mail

david1300 28th Jun 2012 00:37

Too many police diverted to disasters: WA
 
Too many West Australian police officers are being diverted to assist with asylum-seeker boat disasters, the state government has complained.
POLICE Minister Rob Johnson told reporters in Perth on Wednesday border protection was a federal matter, and he would raise the issue with Home Affairs Minister Jason Clare when they meet on Thursday.
"It's a federal government issue, but we're seeing I think it's 26 police officers being diverted from their normal duties in WA to be able to deal with the problem, which is a federal government problem," Mr Johnson said.
"I'll be stressing that to Jason Clare tomorrow."
Police on Tuesday told AAP 26 officers had been deployed to Christmas Island, 1600km northwest of WA, including 12 detectives and eight forensics officers, as part of a disaster victim identification team.

Too many police diverted to disasters: WA | The Courier-Mail

allan907 28th Jun 2012 02:01


Perhaps a true believer could come back & set me straight?
I think that they may well have learnt the old adage "when you're in a hole the best thing to do is to stop digging"

Ovation 28th Jun 2012 05:16

It may have escaped the attention of most observers, but the ALP have used Oakshott for their dirty work to table a "private members bill".

Remember when the High Court ruled the Malaysian Solution invalid? Gillard drew up the legislation to circumvent the court's decision but refused to table it in parliament because she knew the Greens would not support it. Her refusal allowed her then to disingenuously blame Abbott for it's failure, which has backfired in her face big time.

The primary reason for the government's failure on border protection is Gillard's pride and vanity. She dismantled a working model and created the monster that's so far killed some eight hundred people.

This debacle can be fixed overnight. Easily.

I know it, you know it, and I would guess most sensible and decent Australians know what has to happen.

Gillard knows it too, but would rather see innocent people drown than have to admit she's made a mistake.


Makes me ashamed to call myself an Australian.

Captain Sand Dune 28th Jun 2012 07:05


Perhaps a true believer could come back & set me straight?
The silence is deafening, isn't it?:E

Andu 28th Jun 2012 07:47

Here's a prediction: the solitary asylum seeker who was flown from Christmas Island to Perth in the chartered 737 will receive hundreds of thousands of dollars in compensation, paid by the Australian taxpayer, for the loss of his fingers as he escaped the "suddenly sinking" boat - and for the psychological damage he will sure as God made little apples be told by Julian Burnside and his ambulance-chasing lawyers that he suffered during his detention.

Is there anyone out there who believes this won't come to pass?

Secondly, does anyone know what's become of Capt Imad's wife and daughters? You know, the ones who lied in the applications for asylum?

Worrals in the wilds 28th Jun 2012 08:15

SHY's cwying :{:}. Because The Greens' constant blocking of Labor's solution (which isn't much of a solution but at least it's something) is adding to the number of sinkings and resulting fatalities?

No, it's because of some fluffly story re a fifteen year old refugee who she doesn't appear to have even met. I wonder if she cries whenever there's an RSPCA ad on the telly; of course it wouldn't be a cheap political stunt designed to gain sympathy, at a time when increasing numbers of Australians are blaming The Greens for this stalemate...'don't blame me, I'm just a girl!' (Malibu Stacey) :hmm:

Sky News: Hanson-young reduced to tears on debate
http://www.cartoonstock.com/newscart.../cgan1672l.jpg
Mind you, if I were a Greens MP I'd probably cry too...:}

Solid Rust Twotter 28th Jun 2012 08:57

Mmmm... Sounds like the current Oz immigration policy is actually quite a good thing for those of us who will probably end up washed ashore on Cottesloe beach in leaky boats when Zuma finally succeeds in dragging this place through his arsehole. Looking forward to all those lovely benefits and payouts.




One is being cynical BTW. Oz immigration policy has the appearance of not applying to those who will probably turn out not to be True Believers.

Worrals in the wilds 28th Jun 2012 09:20


One is being cynical BTW. Oz immigration policy has the appearance of not applying to those who will probably turn out not to be True Believers.
Possibly. However, we have had a large number of immigrants from South Africa and Zimbabwe in recent years. They're largely very welcome and more or less integrating, notwithstanding the weird looking curly snags and bags of dessicated beef. :}

Of course they all had to complete great wads of paperwork, move over with no guarantee of permanent residency and often engage immigration lawyers (at vast expense) to spend years securing a place.

This is what annoys people, particularly with respect to 'boat' people from countries like Pakistan that aren't on the refugee list. These are economic refugees rather than political refugees, but that fact gets lost in the tears and tantrums from our alleged leaders. Additionally, many of them swallow their documents and then claim to be from countries that are on the list, which is both deceptive and time consuming for the department to prove wrong. Often it's a bit like proving someone is from Saint George rather than Goondiwindi; you have to know who's running the servo this week and whether the pub still does dodgy rissoles on Fridays before you can ask the suspect person which town they're from and know the answer.

Back in Howard's day there were a number of alleged Afghan refugees (actually Pakistanis) who were initially accepted, only to be dropped in to Immigration by annoyed Afghans who were already in Australia. The legitimate Afghans were angry that people were claiming to be Afghan when they weren't, particularly when they were pulling all stops to get their own families out of a war zone and losing places to the fake refs.

What has become obvious is that our alleged leaders are incapable of having a rational, sensible discussion about the issue. For all the tears and tantrums we haven't heard much that's sensible or acknowledges the complex issues that surround immigration (in whatever form). They will have had briefings from Immigration, Customs and DFAT; they'll be aware of the problems but they don't want to deal with them. Why? It's not popular, doesn't win votes. The community's concerns are surprisingly bi-partisan, which doesn't help either party when it comes to the scrounge for votes.

What we are left with is more committees and undoubtedly more boats run by people who are out for a buck. Like the importation and distribution of narcotics, the pollies have shown they're incapable of sensible debate. It doesn't suit their goals. :ugh:

Solid Rust Twotter 28th Jun 2012 09:49

Ah, perhaps one should have clarified the issue by calling it Oz's more informal immigration policy. All that legal expense and paperwork doesn't appear to be necessary if one arrives in a leaky boat.

SOPS 28th Jun 2012 10:02

This really, really getting out of hand. The huggy fluff watermelons just want to open the doors and let them all in, Labor is too stubborn or stupid or both to admit they are wrong, the Libs want Naru (fair enough it worked).

So we end up with noone to doing anything and the leaky boats seem to be forming a queue from Jakarta to Christmas Island.:ugh::ugh:

david1300 28th Jun 2012 10:15

And this is probably reasonably reprsentative of what the public thinks of the current (now defeated in the Senate) legislation passed by the Lower House. Almost 3:1 disapproval:
http://i48.tinypic.com/2yuye1j.jpg

Worrals in the wilds 28th Jun 2012 10:18

Correct. And 10 MPs from an extremist party who were elected by a small minority of voters (1 from the lower house and 9 from the upper house) can hold the process to ransom despite 149 MPs from the lower house and 67 from the upper house not agreeing with them, because those 149 and 67 can't get together, GTFU and work out a solution. Meanwhile, more drownings and more money in the pockets of the leaky boat owners. Guess SHYs not crying about that. :ugh:

I saw a smattering of soundbites from our 'leaders' on the various news reports; they're largely not worth feeding. Seriously, would anyone here either 1. employ any of 'em or 2. want to work with any of 'em? :hmm:

allan907 28th Jun 2012 11:57

Having watched the 7.30 Report the one thing that truly amazed me was the lack of people in the Senate while the 'debate' was taking place.

I suppose that it just goes to show that, despite the tears and posturing for the cameras most of the bastards don't give a fat rat's clacker for the problem - they've obviously got better things to do like clearing out the office shredder or sticking pins in effigies of old people and ex service people.


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