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SOPS 16th Aug 2013 12:48

A little bit off topic I know, but can some one explain to me, or point me to a link regarding the Queensland rail tunnel thing, where, I believe, the trains could not fit in?

Worrals in the wilds 16th Aug 2013 13:08

New one on me. :confused:
Do you have a link or reference?

SOPS 16th Aug 2013 13:14

Maybe the story was that they bought new trains that wouldn't fit through the the existing tunnels?

500N 16th Aug 2013 15:27


Thanks and interesting.

Howard might not have been perfect but he did better than most
over along period.

You'd be too young to remember Kennett in Victoria, made some hard
choices, went too far in some areas and got kicked out, just and everyone
went "Oh Fcuk", what have we done and it didn't take long for people
to realise Labor was a dead loss.

Howard, as someone said, Work choices but it was time for a change,
just not what we got.

Andu 16th Aug 2013 22:59

I wasn't living in the country for all the Howard years, so my observations are "once removed", so I accept I may be off base in those observations.

As a distant observer, I feel the Howard government, whilst certainly doing some good, (like keeping the books balanced and the ledgers in the black - quite a novelty for any government these days), had two major failings. (There were many others, but I'll stick with my own top two here.)

(1) They kept the books in the black by not investing in much-needed long term infrastructure. This is short-sighted and eventually reaches a point where some future government has to spend more to overcome the many problems the lack of spending spreads to all parts of the economy. The utter debacle that is Sydney's road system and public transport today (as much if not more the fault of 16 years of hopeless State Labor governments as the fault of the Feds) is a good example of this.

(2) Middle class welfare. What can I say? The whole idea is totally contrary to what Menzies saw the Liberal Party to be. Howard obviously had a few surveys done and was told by the experts that handouts resulted in votes, but what he was doing towards the end was the exact opposite to what the Libs say they've always stood for - small, as much as possible 'hands off' government that leaves as many voters as possible alone as much as possible to look after themselves while providing a safety net for those who fall between the cracks.

I know Whitlam pretty well destroyed that last idea, ingraining in far too many the idea of 'entitlement' and turning, for far too many, the safety net into a multi-generational way of life. But Howard played that card as well, even spreading it to sections of society that had remained clear of it under Whitlam and succeeding Labor governments.

With his ridiculously overly generous paid maternal leave scheme, Abbott seems hellbent on taking it one step further. If I want to have a baby, it's between me and my wife. It shouldn't also include the Australian taxpayer, particularly if I ask that taxpayer to foot the bill for my/our decision.

The Howard government erred mightily in one other area that is already costing the nation dearly (and we can only hope will not result in utter disaster some time in the future), and that was in defence procurement.

Decisions on major, multi-billion dollar defence spending were based more around providing jobs in marginal electorates (and some insiders would allege, on which company would offer a politician or senior bureaucrat / military officer the best post retirement job) rather than what was the most effective and best suited for the job.

500N 16th Aug 2013 23:07

"The Howard government erred mightily in one other area that is already costing the nation dearly (and we can only hope will not result in utter disaster some time in the future), and that was in defence procurement.

Decisions on major, multi-billion dollar defence spending were based more around providing jobs in marginal electorates (and some insiders would allege, on which company would offer a politician or senior bureaucrat / military officer the best post retirement job) rather than what was the most effective and best suited for the job."

Spot on.

That was a big failing and has and will cost us dearly.

He also stuffed us on guns but that is another story !

Andu 17th Aug 2013 04:54

Our election, as seen by the Americans. Very, very funny, but more than a little embarrassing as well.

John Oliver pokes fun at Australia's election on The Daily Show - YouTube

My daughter pointed out to me that the US audience didn't laugh at the "Islam is a nation" gaffe until it was explained to them that it *** well isn't!!!

heated ice detector 17th Aug 2013 07:55

Any of you Lib neo cons care to comment on the articles currently on the independentaustralia.net website.
Especially regarding slipper and Thompson,
Balances out the Bolts and smith's somewhat

dat581 17th Aug 2013 08:55

The site looks like typical left wing tripe, very short on facts and glossing over or outright lying on labour's record in government. It's 30 seconds of my life I won't get back. :hmm:

sisemen 17th Aug 2013 09:13

Any of you Lab neo Commies care to comment on the articles in most of the MSM today saying that Krudd seems to have bollocksed it; that Beattie is trailing 60-40 in the polls; and that it seems that the wheels have come off the ALP campaign now that the old Krudd appears to be back?

Given his recent announcement about the increase in taxes on tobacco I'm surprised that he was able to afford a fag packet in order to draft his policy on the NT business taxes.

SOPS 17th Aug 2013 09:32

What Sisemen said:ok::ok::ok:

Flying Binghi 17th Aug 2013 09:55

My daughter pointed out to me that the US audience didn't laugh at the "Islam is a nation" gaffe until it was explained to them that it *** well isn't!!!
Perhaps a simple google coulda explained why the yanks didn't find it funny...

Nation of Islam - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The ultimate goal of the 'religion' of islam is the whole world under islam. Claiming islam is a nation, whilst technically incorrect, is not far of the mark.

For further research... Islam: Making a True Difference in the World - One Body at a Time


SOPS 17th Aug 2013 11:26

Wait a minute. What's this? PNG is now saying that they won't take all the refugees sent to them, and will send some back to Australia and some to New Zealand ( has anyone asked NZ about this!)

Sounds like another policy that Kev made on the run (or should that be, on the zip), has the wheels on it starting to fall off!

By the way, how many have they actually sent to PNG so far? What a 100? 200? And already PNG is having second thoughts. What made Kevvie Boy think that PNG would accept thousands??

The man is a total fake:ugh::ugh:

heated ice detector 17th Aug 2013 12:59

I guess if that non main stream media independant oz is only 5% correct then it's very embarrassing for the neo cons at lib headquarters.
I wondered who would be the next stocking wearing downer clone and it turns out Pyne gets the guernsey.
Will abbots court proceedings regarding a one nation founder become apparent before the election,
Will mr B and his co-Horts get away with it
I am sorry but you couldn't make this stuff up!:ok:

I16 17th Aug 2013 13:08

Thank you[ HID] Craig Thomo for you contribution- have fun in jail!

Cactusjack 17th Aug 2013 13:10

Haha, KRudd goes after the smokers to reap in some extra coin. Well I hate to tell you this Kev but the smokers amongst us have been raped for years by the money hungry governments, so some years ago I started buying chop chop from an old Italian farmer near where I live :ok: So you can raise taxes all you like you silver haired tosspot. Same goes for your other little revenue earning tricks being bestowed upon us mere peasants. I for one have set up a side business at a market, cash sales only of course, and I fully intend on 'operating that business in a manner that benefits myself financially', again, this is a situation thrust upon a blue collar worker who has spent years working honestly and ethically, only to get shit upon by greedy incompetent governments like yours.

And for the record, I know that should Labor be re-elected (wont happen now that you pissed off your largest group of supporters - Queensland, by bringing back that turd Beattie) you will also be looking for assetts to sell off, so try selling off this - one fully extended middle finger raised indignantly at you and your overpaid vermin.

Pinky the pilot 17th Aug 2013 13:17

Not currently being in Australia and therefore not being subjected to all the election propaganda and associated mind numbing crap (one and the same perhaps?) I am somewhat thankful as I suspect that if I were back home, by now I would have snapped!

However, one impression I have gained, especially from various reports recieved here in Japan from various sources is that one Kevin Rudd does not live in the same world as I.
A website I saw briefly made the statement that Rudd 'will not be told that Labor is finished' or words to that effect.

If so, it merely confirms an opinion I formed quite some time ago and that is that the man is certifiably loony and in reality belongs in a 'rubber room.':eek:

Preferably in a straitjacket and suitably medicated!

In a way, I think that he woud rather bring the whole country to.....well, the only suitable phrase that springs to mind is 'Gotterdammerung,' than admit that Labor has completely stuffed up.:yuk::mad:

My 2 cents worth, BWTFWIK!:rolleyes:

SOPS 17th Aug 2013 13:18

And in other news, Michael Smith has pictures of more, seemingly chemically enhanced individuals, arriving on Christmas.

One Country Shopper is wearing a Tshirt that says " I have attitude and know how to use it". It actually makes me wonder if these people can actually read the slogans that they are wearing.

And in another thread he shows an Air Naru flight arriving into Australia with the flight number ASY996 ..Asyulum996?

500N 18th Aug 2013 01:27

It's not looking good for Adam Bandt, the Greens lower house member.

Polling looks like he might lose the seat :O :ok:

Brown nose came over from Tas to give him bu, sorry boost.

Worrals in the wilds 18th Aug 2013 01:54

A website I saw briefly made the statement that Rudd 'will not be told that Labor is finished' or words to that effect.
More importantly Rudd will not be told that Rudd is finished. The question is whether he was actually all that good the first time around, and in hindsight I don't think he was. He just looked good compared to Howard.

ASY996 ..Asyulum996?
I think you'll find it's pronounced Aussie 996. Aussie/ASY is the designator used by Defence Force charters, often by pilots with very strong European accents which is good for a laugh (jokes aside, it's not like the government could use an Australian airline :hmm:). That said, I like your version.:E

It's not looking good for Adam Bandt, the Greens lower house member.
Dear Santa, I know it's early but for Christmas I want...

heated ice detector 18th Aug 2013 02:51

Macho tony trying to engage with the female voters, ( ones with sex appeal at least).
5 billion for a baby bonus, maybe there is more money in the coffers after all

500N 18th Aug 2013 03:00


Seeing the Greens get wiped out in this election, both the lower house seat and as many seats as possible would almost be better than seeing Rudd getting kicked out.

I do hope that the Greens are a spent force after this election and are not
given as much air time and focus as they have in the past. It might mean
that stupid things that hinder business don't get put up.

And they can all go and live happily ever after in the Franklin River,
well out of the way of everybody and with Bum Chum Brownie.

Jeps 18th Aug 2013 05:43

War in Australia (any Oz Politics)
Heard Sarah two-dads blow up on the radio and hang up on Ben Fordham because he held a different view to hers on asylum seekers. So according to the greens any view you have that doesn't fall in line with theirs is just plain wrong and you deserve to be silenced!

Really hope she gets kicked out of the senate this election. Scary someone like her has such an influence in law passing in this country in the most important house but hey, that's democracy.

500N 18th Aug 2013 06:28


That sums up the Greens well on everything. Their way or no way.

I see it all the time in my hobby / interests, anti shooting / hunting
and getting rid of foxes and cats yet they can't see the damage they
are doing to Native fauna.

So yes, the quicker they are got rid of as a political force
the better IMHO.

Dark Knight 18th Aug 2013 06:34

A Horror Story?
Chris Kenny appears to sum it up neatly, the article containing an abbreviated history of the litany of Deceit, Deception, Dishonesty, Distrustfulness and Untruthfulness of the Rudd, Gillard, Rudd labor government.

We non believers understand and know this to be true; perhaps the Believers can convince us and `We the People' this is not so that we might vote otherwise than consigning Rudd and Labor to the scrapheap of history?

Chris Kenny
The one sure thing about this election is that Kevin Rudd is doomed

SOME elections are like a bad horror movie. We go through all the staged suspense, all the predictable scares and all the glimmers of hope - but we all know who's going to cop it in the end.

If we cut through an overwritten screenplay, it is pretty simple to explain what this campaign is all about.

Our worst government, possibly since the war and certainly since Whitlam, is about to receive the people's verdict.

By switching back to Kevin Rudd - the man the public voted for in 2007 and never had a chance to re-elect - Labor has tried to ensure the damage won't be as bad as it was shaping up with Julia Gillard.

But don't expect the result to be close. Labor starts from behind and, because of where the swings and winnable seats fall, even the published polls of 51:49 on a two-party-preferred basis would translate to a comfortable Coalition victory.

On current numbers, you would expect something like 85 Coalition seats to 65 for Labor. But the trend in the polls, the tone of the debate and the fundamentals at the core of the contest suggest the margin is more likely to blow out than tighten.
Federal elections tend to be a referendum on the performance of the government and that certainly is how the Opposition strategists want this one to be seen.

So consider Labor's record.

It came to power with Rudd, knifed him, and gave us Gillard. It promised to save the planet from climate change through an emissions trading scheme, but dropped it.

Then it promised not to introduce a carbon tax and did. Now it wants to be taken on trust to return to a trading scheme.

Labor promised to end the "reckless" spending then, when confronted by the GFC, turned reckless expenditure into an art form. Overpriced school halls and dangerously installed roof batts became emblematic of its incompetence and profligacy.

Labor promised to regain control of its spending and deliver a surplus but it failed. Now it is again promising a surplus.

It unveiled new ways to keep a lid on grocery and petrol prices but dropped its schemes.

It picked a fight with our most successful industry, mining, by suddenly imposing a complicated new tax. Once legislated, without the promised accompanying cut in company tax, the mining tax raised only 10 per cent of forecasts.

For far too long, Labor stood by a backbencher, Craig Thomson, a former union boss accused of corruption.

And it boosted its numbers by luring a dodgy Coalition MP, Peter Slipper, into the Speaker's chair even though his exploits had finally prompted his own party to move against him.

Under Gillard, Labor allowed the Greens to dictate policies, it descended into the rhetoric of class warfare, tried to regulate the press and blamed its woes on widespread misogyny.

Perhaps, worst of all, with detention centres empty and boats no longer coming, Labor pandered to the moralising Left and dismantled our tough border-protection regime.

That mistake has led to 50,000 arrivals, untold trauma, costs of close to $10 billion and more than 1100 lives lost.

After resisting changes and then trumpeting every conceivable position - including the East Timor and Malaysia solutions - Labor now asks to be trusted with the PNG solution.

To cap it all off, after four leadership spills and two changes, Labor now presents Rudd as the answer; the man it rejected as unelectable in 2010 and then resisted on two subsequent occasions because MPs said he was dysfunctional, psychotic, disloyal and because he had contempt for his colleagues, the Parliament and the people.

Labor has only installed him now, in desperation, because polls suggested he would save seats.

Yep, this reads like a horror story.

500N 18th Aug 2013 07:35

The Greens have got 9 Senates members and 1 lower house member (Adam).

It will be interesting to see how many they lose from the Senate.

In looking at the Senate seats, not sure they will lose everyone
which is a pity.

Worrals in the wilds 18th Aug 2013 08:17

5 billion for a baby bonus, maybe there is more money in the coffers after all...
The Libs are no strangers to pork barrelling.

Under Gillard, Labor allowed the Greens to dictate policies, it descended into the rhetoric of class warfare, tried to regulate the press and blamed its woes on widespread misogyny.
And hasn't that bitten them on the backside :eek:! Every day the Murdoch headlines get more luridly anti-Labor, and not just in The Australian. Nor do I really blame the press. The proposed media control legislation was alarming and dangerous. When even Laurie Oakes is sledging the ALP (albiet possibly with a very sharp pen poked in his back by his superiors :suspect:) you know they're cranky.

Much as I detest the Greens (probably more than some of you Coalition types) I think they'll retain a decent percentage of the primary vote. The polls seem steady around the 8-10% mark, and I suspect that's mainly dissaffected leftie Labor voters. Likewise Katter; from what I hear he's winning over a number of urban right wing Labor types. It seems that the current ALP have managed to alienate both their left and right wing supporters at the same time. Talented! :rolleyes:

Many people who aren't particularly engaged wrt politics are disliking both major parties, and some of them will show that by voting for a minority or independent candidate :(. The supermarket queue is full of people declaring that they're going to vote Green/Katter/Palmer/local fruit loop because they neither like, trust or respect the two major parties.

500N 18th Aug 2013 08:22

Not sure about Palmer

But Katter actually speaks some sense and even though he might be extreme
to some, he at least calls a spade a spade which I think a few people think
is good.

Worrals in the wilds 18th Aug 2013 08:48

I've encountered him several times (not politically). It was not a Fun experience. :ugh: IME the vast majority of pollies from both sides of the house are reasonably polite human beings and many of them are delightful to deal with.

However, I can see why his public message resonates with many traditional working Labor voters. I think the current federal ALP (particularly under Gillard) has alienated these supporters to run after the trendy, inner-city chardonnay Labor types. Unfortunately that only wins trendy inner-city electorates, and isn't even guaranteed of doing that. The impression it leaves with many bogan voters (for want of a better term :}) is that they've been ignored in favour of the tofu-latte set because they're not hip enough to be Labor. Where does that leave them? In a vacuum. :(

If the Libs have won them over then we'll see that reflected in the polls, and I think that will be the case for at least some of them (hence the predicted Coalition victory). The bogan vote comfortably kept Howard's government in power for four terms, until Howard also forgot about them in favour of his rich big business friends. However, I don't think they're all on board a la 96-04. I may be wrong, but I haven't observed a huge wave of support for Abbott and Co. I think a lot of people are wondering which party is the lesser of two evils. I noticed the same thing in 2010 and we all know how that turned out :ugh:. When a voter is in that frame of mind, the loud-mouthed minority candidates start looking quite attractive.

I drove past a busy roundabout today and noticed a bunch of PUP campaign posters. In the middle of the roundabout was the candidate in a big floppy hat dancing around and waving at passing traffic. Instinctively I waved back :O and my first impulse thought was 'at least she's out having a go.' Would I vote for them? Hell no, but it beat the heck out of the relentless spin and stage managed appearances from the Libs and the ALP that we've all gotten so sick of. Both major parties have become so transparently calculating, such political machines controlled by political oligarchies that even I can see the appeal of a small candidate. The problem is, that if they get the balance of power the whole system generally becomes unworkable.

Whoever the Australian people begrudgingly vote for (probably the Libs) I think that both parties have a heck of a lot of work to do if they want to regain some integrity and the respect of the demos. Currently they're both sitting at the level of used car salesmen and internet spammers.

I've been following politics for a while, and every year the pollies from both major parties seem to get more fake, more grasping and more lacking in integrity. You get the feeling that if the Satanist vote became integral to victory we'd see both Rudd and Abbott dressed up in goat's head masks and black robes dancing around each other.

500N 18th Aug 2013 08:56


Re the lesser of two evils, I think Vic was a good example
when they wanted to send a message to Kennett that he had
gone too far but didn't want Labor in as they knew they were
useless, but as you know, they scraped across the line and
everyone was shocked.

And of course we ended up with a do nothing Gov't for a few years.

It is a fine line between sending a message and the alternative.

Agree re if the minority hold the balance of power.

BTW, I love some of your terminology !!!

Ovation 18th Aug 2013 10:01

Yes Kevin, Your PNG plan is working out just fine.....

AN asylum seeker vessel carrying 208 people is under escort by Australian authorities to Christmas Island after sending a distress signal.
An Australian Maritime Safety Authority spokesman said the boat called for assistance about 8.11am (AEST) Sunday and was located 45 minutes later by HMAS Parramatta, 95 nautical miles north of Christmas Island in Indonesian waters.
"The vessel was assessed by HMAS Parramatta crew to be seaworthy and functioning, with passengers found to have no immediate health or other issues," the spokesman told AAP.
Australian naval personnel remain on board the boat, navigating it to Christmas Island, where it is expected to arrive about 5am (AEST) on Monday under the escort of HMAS Parramatta.

Read more: More than 200 on latest asylum seeker boat | News.com.au

SOPS 18th Aug 2013 10:15

So the boat sent a distress signal, there was nothing wrong with it AND. It was in Indonesian waters....and the still got escorted to Christmas Island....Lord, give me strength.:ugh::ugh:

Worrals in the wilds 18th Aug 2013 10:19

In other words, no distress. :ugh:Like the regular Friday night 000 calls for taxis, pizzas, 'punch my boyfriend cos he's a jerk' and similar. :bored:

Surely the correct response is 'well goodbye now, enjoy your journey; maybe you'll see some whales'.

If the Libs win I hope they produce some balls from a jar of formaldehyde and withdraw from the Refugee Convention. That will make three years of IR pain and yuppie baby handouts slightly more endurable. :*

500N 18th Aug 2013 10:22

How come if I send a false distress signal, I get my ass kicked,
fined and pay costs of the services (or could do) yet these pricks
can and do get away with it FFS.

Double fcuking standards if you ask me.

If they want to send a distress signal, I'm quite happy to give them
reason to send one but their boat won't be floating by the time the
Navy gets to it and they will have to be quick making the phone call
before the phone gets wet :E

Oh, I was only fishing and putting a bit of blood and guts in the water
to attract the fish ;)

SOPS 18th Aug 2013 13:51

I'm am really hoping (stupid me), that one of our political 'leaders' has the balls to stand up and say 'Enough is Enough'. If you are in 'distress' in Indonesian waters, call the Indonesians for help, we are not coming anymore.

I know, I'm living in a parallel universe, sort of parallel to the parallel universe that all our politicians seem to live in at the moment.:ugh::ugh:

owen meaney 18th Aug 2013 13:52

From a Labor family of three generations of working men, in the automotive trades, I could hang my head and weep at where two successive Labor Party PMs have led our party to.
A Conservative has proposed a paid parental leave scheme, so that it encompasses our sisters and daughters serving our coffee, hamburgers or sandwiches. Probably our beer and cleaning up after our drunken mess. And our PM denigrates it.
Indeed, I will weep.

500N 18th Aug 2013 20:57

Rudd is pulling out all the guns in the latest adverts.

It's your loss, Rudd tells Abbott voters in bleak ad campaign

Andu 18th Aug 2013 22:09

Anyone who has been visiting the US in the lead up to an election there (which is just about always) and who has endured the endless stream of negative attack ads. on the US MSM will recognise the new Labor ads. as pure 100% American in content, right down to same mock earnest tone of voice by the speaker. The only difference is the absence of the American accent.

The Team Obama boys are earning their keep. Whether those ads. will fly with the average Australian, as they so obviously do with the average American, remains to be seen.

Off the subject of the attack ads., I for one struggle with a government that has been in power for six years suddenly, immediately prior to an election, coming up with a a succession of wonderful ideas and handouts that will fix everything for everyone. Why didn't it think of at least some of these great ideas twelve - even six - months ago?

Andu 18th Aug 2013 22:13

Answering my own question from paragraph 2 of my earlier post, see the poll results here - and note, it's a Fairfax poll.

It's your loss, Rudd tells Abbott voters in bleak ad campaign

500N 18th Aug 2013 22:14


"Why didn't it think of at least some of these great ideas twelve
- even six - months ago?"

I've always thought that.

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