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-   -   War in Australia (any Oz Politics): the Original (https://www.pprune.org/jet-blast/477678-war-australia-any-oz-politics-original.html)

Clare Prop 15th Jan 2013 12:50

Couple of things about the IMF...firstly Swan gave them 7 billion of our hard-earned to help bail outall those naughty profligately spending socialist countries in Europe. So of course they love him.

Also, when all this profligate spending was going on there were wall to wall Labor state governments and this report didn't differentiate between the types of government, just who the PM was at the time.

Don't get me wrong, I am no fan of Howard, the things that happened in GA under his watch destroyed a huge chunk of the industry. Baby bonuses, first home buyer grants, all sorts of stupid vote buying wastage that peoplequickly took for granted. Welfare should be based on need not on whether or not people have decided to have kids or identifiy with a certain ethnic group. Yet today I hear the "Schoolkids' bonus" being advertised on the radio. :ugh:

They are just as bad as each other.

Fliegenmong 15th Jan 2013 13:01

No worries Sise....I'll await you to find it.....it will be in the so called 'MSM', murdoch (Australian) press of course! They know better than to sh!t in their own nest :ok: howard ensured that!

I'm somwhat surprised none of the (Coalition) 'true believers' posted it here already!!!

If ya can't find it though, tell me how wrong the IMF are, and then promise me you'll never use them to defend your personal point of view as a voter:ok:

Buster Hyman 15th Jan 2013 19:47

As you have already indicated that you don't believe the source, it's probably a moot point, but this is what I could find...

Cookies must be enabled. | The Australian

As you will note, it is clearly an Opinion piece. Unlike most of the stories on the True Believers Gazette, opinions wrapped up as facts. Little things like the fact that it was a "Working Paper" from four IMF employees & not the organisation as a whole tends to get lost in the rush to deflect attention away from this current rabbles ineptitude.

Andu 15th Jan 2013 21:36

Fleigs, Buster got the right link. It was an article by Henry Ergas, hardly a rabid right winger. It's worth reading in full, as Ergas points out that page 2 of the source document clearly states that its conclusions do not represent the opinions of the IMF, a small factoid overlooked by the "journalist" giving Wayne Swan's management of our economy a glowing report.

I'll repeat here what I've said before. Howard's so-called "middle class welfare" (an unusually accurate tag, in my opinion) was wrong in so many ways, not least in building in an expectation of entitlement in far too many of the electorate who should NOT expect government handouts, and Tony Abbott is showing disturbing signs of following that trend if he gets back into power.

Croozin 15th Jan 2013 21:59

There'll be many who won't like Piers Ackerman's comments below.

Piers Akerman
Wednesday, January 16, 2013 (6:36am)

THE warring Aboriginal and Pacific Islander families of Douglas Street, Woodridge, have again demonstrated the failure of the nation’s insane multicultural policy.

Instead of identifying as Australian, the combatants are resorting to the symbols of their race.

In the case of the Aboriginals, the flag Cathy Freeman made momentarily famous, is being given a thorough workout.

The Islanders say they are being discriminated against as foreigners in the education system, among other gripes.

The violence, fortunately, is local and, by international standards, minimal.

One Aboriginal family, the Briggs, has already said it will move from the state housing dominated area.

State Labor MP Desley Scott has blamed cuts to welfare for the problem – as a Labor MP would.

It was unhelpful of federal LNP MP Andrew Laming, to tweet on Monday: “Mobs tearing up Logan. Did any of them do a day’s work today, or was it business as usual and welfare on tap?”

The Opposition’s spokesman on indigenous health later tweeted: “To clarify: Working together to resolve these riots the priority. Training and a chance for jobs are key.”

But the genesis of the bitter feelings in the Logan community lies beyond the orbit of welfare – around Australia groups which have been encouraged to hang onto the national identities of their former homelands are finding it harder to blend into the mainstream.

The melting pot isn’t a Mixmaster.

Under multiculturalism, some groups have formed ghettos within Australian cities.

Despite the millions thrown at SBS, many of these more recent arrivals can’t speak English and make no attempt to learn the language.

Instead, the government just spends more money providing translations of important documents and translators to assist them retain the languages of their former home nations.

The success of the migration program of the post-WWII period which saw Australia absorb millions of displaced people (as refugees were once called) is being overshadowed by the dysfunctionalism of multiculturalism.

As Australia Day approaches, with its reminder of the racial disharmony promoted from within the Prime Minister’s office last year, the ugly reality of this failed policy is yet again on display.

parabellum 15th Jan 2013 22:28

An excellent piece, apart from one small point, Australia does not practice multi-culturism, very few of the new arrivals make any effort to integrate and absorb any of Australian culture. What Ackerman is actually talking about is multi-racialism.

Buster Hyman 15th Jan 2013 22:36

It was unhelpful of federal LNP MP Andrew Laming, to PPRuNe on Monday:
??? :confused: ???

Croozin...I've always thought that part of the problem for the Aboriginals is that they & we, don't tend to associate them with the word "Australians". First Australians aside, it really never comes in as a descriptor. In providing them with the extra support and benefits, even where forms ask if you are an Aboriginal or TSI, the Govt. (and I'm not singling out any Govt. They've all done it) is actually stigmatising them IMHO.

I have no problem with multi culturalism, and I have no problem with people who reminisce & support their homeland but I tend to like the American way where they identify as American Italians, or American whatevers.

Captain Sand Dune 16th Jan 2013 05:46

How about identifying as Australians? This whole Australian-(insert desired ethnicity here) thing sounds like people want a foot in both camps. My parents both came from Germany and always referred to themselves as Australians. Why do some Aboriginals feel the need to refer to themselves as Aboriginal rather than Australians? Why do our governments perpetuate this?

Worrals in the wilds 16th Jan 2013 07:08

It was unhelpful of federal LNP MP Andrew Laming, to tweet on Monday: “Mobs tearing up Logan. Did any of them do a day’s work today, or was it business as usual and welfare on tap?”
It would have been sensible to check whether the people concerned actually worked first :mad::rolleyes:, instead of assuming they're bludgers just because they are Indigenous / Islander, living at Logan and having a feud. Note to Mr Laming; lots of brown people work. Maybe if he stuck his head out of the frigging Qantas Club once in a while he'd see how many Islanders (and some Indigenous guys) are working their butts off every day on the airport ramps, as just one example. :*

Logan has a relatively high unemployment rate (about 8%) but that means that over 90% of people there do work, often in low paying jobs. We've all been beefing about the cost of living, and when people are not earning a lot to start with, it gets even harder to stay above water. Many people who live in Logan would probably rather live somewhere else, but it's cheap, hence (in part) the high multicultural mix. Many new Australians work in pretty basic jobs due to poor English and a lack of skills (or bits of paper listing those skills) so they're not going to be earning enough for a riverside condo at New Farm any time soon.

Angry at Mr Laming's comments on Twitter, they said they would have been at work if not for fears for their families.
Soane Palau has been a disability carer for eight years and works five nights a week.
"Because of this I've taken some days off," said Mr Palau, who needed eight stitches after being struck in the head with a bar on Sunday night.
His three eldest sons are visiting for the New Year holidays from Sydney.
"We're hard-working Islander men who provide for our families," his son, Sione Palau, said.
A resident staying at the Aboriginal household, who asked for his name to be withheld, works for contractors who maintain Logan parks.
Anyway, according to the Courier Mail it's all been sorted out and everyone's put down the lumps of wood. Apparently these guys were friends until there was a falling out; it sounds like the racial thing only became important after there was a fight about some other issues. And of course, it makes for a good media story. :hmm:

Flying Binghi 16th Jan 2013 07:26

...And of course, it makes for a good media story.
...and helps to divert from the Green created fire issue..:hmm:


Worrals in the wilds 16th Jan 2013 07:27

..and helps to divert from the Green created fire issue..http://images.ibsrv.net/ibsrv/res/sr...lies/yeees.gif
For sure. We're lucky up here that no-one ever listened to them much.

Takan Inchovit 16th Jan 2013 08:00

For sure. We're lucky up here that no-one ever listened to them much.
... except the Bligh, Beattie, Goss, Keating and Hawke Governments. Qld does continue further north than the Sunshine coast. :suspect:

Worrals in the wilds 16th Jan 2013 08:17

Noted, but did the Greens ever impact on fire policy? I know they did on land clearing and fisheries management, but I didn't think burn bans ever made it past the border.

Takan Inchovit 16th Jan 2013 09:12

Not sure on that one in particular, but we blame them anyway. :)

Worrals in the wilds 16th Jan 2013 09:14

Always a safe position in Queensland politics. :cool:
Wonder if the Birdsville Hotel still sells their 'save trees, burn a greenie' stickers?

Fliegenmong 16th Jan 2013 09:41

Thanks Buster & Andu posts 4037 4038, I can't afford to susbscribe to Mr Murdoch, even though I did used to enjoy reading the Australian...awfully biased editorial, but there was some intelligent contribution from readers of both persuasions...I'll take your word, and assume the truth, as so very often happens, lie somewhere in between.....

Yes Andu Big Tone will continue howard's middle class welfare.....(and profligate spending :O :p) It's not about what's best for the Country with either side It's about who will 'do anything' to get in the Lodge.....Country run just fine the whole time we were waiting to see who Windsor Oakeshott etc would support.....country run just fine through all of Oakeshott's mindless waffling for that matter :rolleyes:

Andu 16th Jan 2013 10:04

... but it didn't continue to run just fine after that cretin Oakeshott finally made his decision.

I wonder, was it his four year old or his six year old who advised him to go with Gillard? Probably best for everyone concerned if we never get to know the answer to that particular question.

Flying Binghi 16th Jan 2013 10:10

via Worrals in the wilds:
...no-one ever listened to them much...
Except that there were a whole lot of new national park areas made to get the green vote.

via Worrals in the wilds:

Noted, but did the Greens ever impact on fire policy?...
All that acreage of new national park areas delivered by labore to get the green vote and no thought given to how the QLD government were going to pay to manage the new areas... Unsustainable is a good descriptor.

New QLD government finding the kitty empty did the only prudent thing...
Queensland Health takes brunt of redundancies


Buster Hyman 16th Jan 2013 10:56

Well, therein lies the problem...again...Fliegs. We all know numbers can easily be manipulated and in one interpretation, they are probably correct. Another will show them way off I'd imagine but, as usual, we don't get the plain facts from any of the mainstream media. It means we cannot evaluate & come to our own conclusion as we have to battle through the murky garbage of political bias.

Fliegenmong 16th Jan 2013 11:31

Yeah Buster I know....a politically keen watcher for many a year, and now.....well, I find it more and more tiresome, as it becomes a never ending round-a-bout of he said she said manipulated number Bullsh!t with an ever diminishing differentiation between the two....

I guess also living where I live, in a Blue Ribbon Liberal Heartland, I see FA work done for us with the sitting member 'cos he knows he is safe as houses! I even have electoral pamphlets here from the sitting Federal Liberal member claiming credit for (The not so many) Labor State government achievements........but nonetheless) he and his team know that no one here will question that!!

Outright lies that are foisted upon the local unquestioning Liberal 'Pardee faithful' and increasingly they comprise of wealthy children who live off Mum and Dads money whilst they strut around acting out American gangster ambitions....as in "I'm a hard @rsed mothf%&ker from the 'hood', (cruising around in M&D's Black Audi 4wd, having never done a days work in their lives, but seen standing around on election day handing out 'How To' flyers......

Edited to Add: (Not so many ) Labor State

RJM 16th Jan 2013 11:47

'Scuse I for the diversion gents. This has just lobbed in my in tray from Australia's Mr Pickering. I thought it good enough to share:

Larry Pickering

The ALP's primary vote has jumped 6 points to 38 per cent, according to Newspoll. A curious although not unexpected result considering both Gillard and Abbott have been successfully putting out fires.

Of course Abbott has been busy dousing real ones while Gillard has been busy playing photo ops with an adoring media. But you really start to wonder at the mean IQ of those being polled.

No surprise, the hot spell has the meteorological morons at it again claiming a rise in sea levels and cyclones are caused by global warming.

First, let's put the meteorological morons to bed. Cyclones are caused by cold fronts, Oodnadatta was hotter 15 years ago at 50.7 deg. and sea levels have not risen at all, won't in the near future and certainly not in the next 10,000 years.

Labor's amorphous 'Department of Climate Change' won't employ any person who rejects its global warming nonsense, so objectivity is seriously wanting.

The evidence against global warming is scientifically clear and conclusive to all except to the ABC and the loony Left.

But back to the polls. Who the hell are they polling? Surely no-one is still that hung over, surely the leap from 2012 to 2013 didn't induce amnesia?

Our borders are still broken with boats still coming, and sinking. Our debt is greater than that of Greece and increasing, Gillard still won't stop spending, unemployment is soaring, manufacturing is terminal, Government corruption is still rampant and Labor gets a spike in the polls?

Does a fuzzy photo of Gillard and a red haired mutt on the manicured lawns of Kirribilli erase five years of total incompetence? If it does then we are in a bit of bother, because another term of Gillard and crew will see us with third world status.

Maybe the names, Wilson, Thomson, Shorten, Williamson, Obeid, Slipper, Roxon, MacDonald, Heiner and others have been lost in the alcoholic haze of Xmas. Or has the public become inured to arguably the most ideologically committed and incompetent government in Australia's history.

The truth is that Gillard has cunningly used the public purse to paper over the gaping fissures in her hopeless administration. She has recognised the presidential nature of our coming election and is crafting an image for herself that is not remotely like herself while painting a twisted canvas of Dorian Gray to represent Abbott.

Tony Abbott has a problem and we better hope he knows it. The ALP has a slick campaign arranged. They are chocolate coating the stool and it's hard for the apolitical peon detect.

This election campaign will be fought on the internet highway and social media and confused with television lies it will be a winning formula.

There are old-school members of the Coalition who still believe in the traditional hustings of the past. It won't wash this time because it's clear what Labor's intentions are. They didn't employ McTernan for no reason. He is the master of the dirt sticks and shit stinks campaign and truth will be the first casualty in this battle.

It is now the politics of personalities and he, or she, who looks least worse wins.

Buckle up it has begun.

Fliegenmong 16th Jan 2013 12:11

Is this Pickering chap the one who used to draw cartoons of Naked Australian 'celebrities'???

He does indeed seem deeply concerned that the Liberal Pardee Machine will be inept at countering whatever the Labor Pardee are going to throw at them, should he enlist as a media advisor? Is he already, but had 'rank pulled' on him?
Who pays Larry?
Is Larry making excuses if indeed Labor win an 'un-winnable' election?
Certainly looking at Labors suicide path, never has it been more true that Governments lose elections more so than oppositions win them, in fact I don't think that I have ever seen a government so hell bent on self destruction other than this one, so I question why Lozza is so hell bent on finding an excuse before an outcome??

Guess you need something to fall back on.......

Clare Prop 16th Jan 2013 12:15

Cyclones are caused by cold fronts? :ooh:

Some of his cartoons are funny but he should stay away from meteorology... :hmm:

Fliegenmong 16th Jan 2013 12:19

Oh Yeah.....who is this McTernan anyway? (I don't follow this thread too closely, mostly it's entirely predictable and tiresome, so drop in only every few days if time permits...of which I've had a bit of late)

Mr Pickering, a satirical cartoonist (?) is concerned about a guy whose surname is Mr McTernan? Have I got that right?? :confused:

RJM 16th Jan 2013 12:40

Das fliegende Queenslander, that must be a very big rock you're under up there, or perhaps Fliegensville is a little isolated.

Mr Pickering couldn't be a media adviser, aklthough I'm sure a lot of politicians read his stuff. Larry was a bit of a naughty lad - not just for drawing Gillard with a big dildo on a belt. He was involved in some shenanigans which led to his ex wife taking his helicopter - they can do that here - and leaving Mr Pickering rather jaundiced, to say the least.

Fortunately, Julia Gillard is the perfect target for Mr Pickering's gently chiding pen in both prose and cartoon, and we're the beneficiaries. He may be up the creek on climate, but he's excellent at skewering Giullard and her associates.

Mcternan is a stop-at-nothing, no trick is too dirty, import from Scvotland via Tony Blair, and has repeated a few of his British tactics here.

I'm worried about Australia first, then the Libs. I think the Libs, and the whole country, are up against a psychopath (in Gillard, Mcternan is just nasty), and normal tactics may not work.

Pickering does do a fairly rough calendar each year. You can buy one on his site.

Fliegenmong 16th Jan 2013 13:06

RJ, suspect I do live under a fairly big rock, but also suspect if Jooliar handed out $1000 dollar payments to political cartoonists, pickering would both accept and then criticise the same........but I don't know.....it's friggin ' late, and I need to go to sleep so as I can adequately participate in raising tax revenue for the country tomorrow....:ugh:

RJM 16th Jan 2013 13:08

:ok: I hope that's as a 'client' not an employee of ATO.

Andu 16th Jan 2013 20:28

If anyone ever doubted that there's something seriously wrong with the Australian unemployment "system", this morning's AlpBC news should set them straight.

The recent (maybe 'current' would be more accurate) bushfires have caused Centrelink to send a "team" to Sussex Inlet (located on the south side of Jervis Bay, on the NSW South Coast) to deal with the... wait for it... 1000 Centrelink "clients" in Sussex Inlet.

Now this may mean nothing to people not familiar with Sussex Inlet. It could only be described as a bloody beachside holiday community. The only work available, apart from the odd job at the odd fast food outlet, would be with the local Council mowing the road verges and picking up rubbish. And 1000 Centrelink "clients" CHOOSE to live there?

Quite a few of us here (myself included) are ready to point out that too many of the recent uninvited arrivals to this country seem all too quick to take up the Centrelink lifestyle for the long term. But my guess would be that you wouldn't find a single headscarf among the Centrelink "clients" at Sussex Inlet. They'd be a mixture of Bogan Anglos, salted by a large number of "Aborigines", (my parenthesis, for I think the Aboriginality of many who label themselves as such is tenuous, to put it mildly).

Am I the only one concerned that this self-selected Centrelink holiday camp lifestyle has become so accepted that Centrelink management now send a bloody team down to Holiday Central to deal with their "clients" rather than have their "clients" come to them?

I also find myself wondering what extra allowances will be paid to the Centrelink "team" who have to "suffer" living at Sussex Inlet in bloody January - the height of the summer holiday season - and how many will "be forced" to take the family along to share the taxpayer-provided accommodation they'll be occupying while dealing with their 1000 "clients".

Croozin 16th Jan 2013 23:29

Australian voting cheats escape penalty | thetelegraph.com.au

MORE than 16,000 voters got away with voting more than once in the 2010 razor-edge federal government election, the Australian Electoral Commission has admitted.

However, while dozens may have voted three times or more, only three copped a slap on the wrist.

The commission told a senate committee its own records made it difficult to tell who was breaking electoral laws and that little could be done if voters denied it.

Of the 16,189 people the AEC suspects of casting multiple votes, 5211 denied it and 80 per cent of the 1458 who confessed were new voters or didn't understand how to vote.

It was decided 7925 were errors, many caused when voters with similar names were recorded under the same name by accident.

The AEC had concerns about 55 voters who appeared to have cast three or more votes. But police would only agree to investigate 19 and issued just three police cautions, despite a maximum penalty of a year in jail.

Eleven of the 19 denied any wrongdoing and one couldn't be contacted.

Four admitted they were wrong but one was not cautioned due to a disability.

Electoral Commissioner Ed Killesteyn told the committee the offence was hard to prove as there was no real evidence if a person denied the offence.

"As the AFP will tell you, the difficulty in all of these cases is around whether there is appropriate evidence that there was an intent and, indeed, a practice of multiple voting," he said.

There have been calls for the introduction of photo ID, with some seats won or lost on just a few votes.
If this doesn't prove something definitely needs to be done before the next election, nothing will. And 'nothing will' will be the operative words, as nothing will be done.

Buster Hyman 17th Jan 2013 00:05

Andu, I don't know the area but I might play Devils advocate here a little.

I would hazard at a guess that some of those clients could be working families who are eligible for the Family Tax Benefit A or B. Also, they did this during Black Saturday to better allow people to claim their $1000 "exposure" benefit. As a great deal of people lost all their possessions & ID's, they just handed out the money & asked questions later.

Again, I don't know the area or how badly the fires affected them, so I will defer to those who know better.

Croozin 17th Jan 2013 00:27

Buster, see below. Not quite as bleak as Andu painted it. I would assume that the 1000 Centrelink clients are drawn from the surrounding area, and not just the township. From my visits to the area, I'd say the population probably triples every January, as there used to be a lot of holiday homes in the area. I think that would still be the case today.

Sussex Inlet Demographics (NSW) Local Stats

Sussex Inlet (2540) is a suburb of South Coast, South Coast, New South Wales. It is about 154 kms from NSW's capital city of Sydney.

In the 2011 Census the population of Sussex Inlet is 3,571 and is comprised of 50% males and 50% females.

The median/average age of the Sussex Inlet population is 59 years of age, 22 years above the Australian average.

82.3% of people living in Sussex Inlet were born in Australia. The other top responses for country of birth were England 6.1%, New Zealand 0.9%, Scotland 0.8%, Germany 0.7%, Netherlands 0.5%.

94.3% of people speak English as their first language 0.7% Greek, 0.3% German, 0.3% Maltese, 0.2% Tagalog, 0.2% Macedonian.

The religious make up of Sussex Inlet is 37.9% Anglican, 22.8% Catholic, 15.8% No Religion, 4.9% Uniting Church, 4.6% Presbyterian and Reformed.

53.5% of people are married, 19.7% have never married and 10.1% are separated or divorced. There are 395 widowed people living in Sussex Inlet.

47.6% of the people living in Sussex Inlet are employed full time, 35.6% are working on a part time basis. Sussex Inlet has an unemployment rate of 8.7%.

The main occupations of people from Sussex Inlet are Technicians and Trades Workers 20.2%, Community and Personal Service Workers 16.4%, Managers 13.2%, Clerical and Administrative Workers 11.5%, Labourers 11.2%, Sales Workers 9.5%, Machinery Operators And Drivers 8.2%, Professionals 8.2%.

The median individual income is $359.00 per week and the median household income is $598.00 per week.

55.8% of homes are fully owned, and 17.1% are in the process of being purchased by home loan mortgage. 21% of homes are rented.

The median rent in Sussex Inlet is $200 per week and the median mortgage repayment is $1382 per month.

sisemen 17th Jan 2013 10:34

Bloody astounding! Even this government's ministers are not allowed to see what the mining tax has raised because they have deemed it to be illegal.

What a dog's breakfast.

And brought to you by the world's best treasurer and a skanky marriage breaker/union spiv/shonky lawyer.

Croozin 17th Jan 2013 20:28

Law Firm Risk Management Blog - Ethical Walls, Conflicts, Information Barriers, Compliance, New Business Intake

Wednesday, November 28, 2012
Law Firm and Government Conflicts -- Incidents Touch High-Level Officials in Canada and Australia
Two conflicts stories making news today:

Gillard law firm claims AWU case presented conflict

•"SLATER & Gordon has confirmed that Julia Gillard [the current Prime Minister of Australia] faced a fundamental conflict of interest when she represented both a crony of her boyfriend and his union as a salaried partner of the firm in the early 1990s."

•"Slater & Gordon released details of the opinion in response to persistent media questions regarding Ms Gillard's role in giving advice on the incorporation of the now infamous AWU Workplace Reform Association in 1992."

•"A police investigation later revealed that her then boyfriend, senior AWU official Bruce Wilson, had stolen more than $400,000 from the association - including $100,000 spent towards the purchase of a Fitzroy property."

•"As a partner and deputy head of Slater & Gordon's industrial department, Ms Gillard represented both the West Australian and Victorian branches of the AWU. But she confirmed on Monday that she had been representing Mr Wilson and Mr Blewitt personally when she helped them, for the association, buy the Fitzroy property - and denied she had acted without authority."

•"In acting for the official the firm had obtained information that was confidential to the official and the disclosure of which to the union would have been a conflict between the interests of the union and the official."

•"''Slater & Gordon ceased acting for both clients after it became aware of this conflict situation,' the [firm's] statement said."

Croozin 18th Jan 2013 08:56

Michael Smith hinting heavily on his website that something big involving the Victorian Police is about to go down. (I'll believe it when I see it. The Labor fire brigade will use everything at its disposal over the weekend to douse anything that might threaten the status quo. I think Smith was very foolish to fly the flag on anything that might be about to go down ahead of time, but I hope I'm wrong.)

Meanwhile, Miranda Devine has posted this, which is interesting reading:

Miranda Devine
Tuesday, January 15, 2013 (9:53am)

THE Greens love to rewrite history. They must think we have amnesia.

Here is Tasmanian Greens leader and cabinet minister Nick McKim claiming last weekend:

“The Greens, in all the history of our political party, have never opposed a fuel-reduction burn, ever.”

Here is his party in a post on their website this week: “The Greens have supported, and continue to support, fuel reduction burns as a vital tool in protecting lives and property in all land tenures including National Parks.”

And here is the Tasmanian Greens press release of June 15, 2012:

The Tasmanian Greens today said that residents in and around Maydena deserved better than the intense smoke pollution from commercial forestry burn-offs that they were subjected to this week.

This practice has simply got to stop. It puts people’s health at risk and every time the state is swathed in commercial forestry smoke, our valuable ‘clean, green,’ brand is diluted just a little bit more.

“Greens strongly believe Tasmania must free itself from this smoke taint and end commercial forestry burn-offs . . . attempting to burn forest waste at this time of year is highly likely to have this unacceptable result.

“We’re all better off when this Neanderthal practice stops and disposing of forest by-products is done far more responsibly.

“The future’s bright without forestry’s smoke pollution,” said Greens Treasury spokesperson, Tim Morris MP.

And what about this, from the Tasmanian Greens’ health spokesperson, Paul ‘Basil’ O’Halloran MP on March 15, 2011: “FORESTRY BURN-OFFS CONTINUE TO THREATEN HEALTH AND WELL-BEING: COMMUNITIES, ANIMALS AND PLANT LIFE BEING THREATENED BY FORESTRY BURN-OFFS.”

It is a matter of public record that green groups have long opposed systematic prescribed burning, as is evident in their submissions to bushfire inquiries from as far back as 1992.

They complain of a threat to biodiversity, including to fungi, from “frequent burning” regimes and urge resources be spent on water bombers and early detection, as well as on stopping climate change - good luck with that.

The WA Forest Alliance, for instance, lodged a submission to the NSW parliamentary inquiry into the 2001-02 bushfires, claiming: “Frequent fires have a disastrous effect on many species of flora and fauna and their habitat structure.”

WWF Australia’s submission claimed: “Inappropriate fire hazard regimes can damage biodiversity leading to the loss of native species, communities and ecosystems.”

The NSW Greens stated on their website in 2002 as part of their bushfire risk management policy: “There is an urgent need to correct the common misconception that responsible fire management always involves burning or clearing to reduce moderate and high fuel loads…”

As I wrote in a previous column, in 2003, lightning strikes in fuel-rich national parks in NSW and the ACT sparked bushfires which swept into Canberra, killing four people.

Days later, the NSW Nature Conservation Council’s then chairman, Rob Pallin, described calls for increased prescribed burning as “futile” and a “knee-jerk reaction”.

“People who claim that hazard reduction burning is a cure-all for bushfire risk are either fooling themselves or deliberately trying to fool the public.”

It is another clever tactic of those who oppose broadscale prescribed burning to claim that it is not a “cure-all” for bushfire risk. No one has ever claimed it is.

The icing on the cake is that the NSW Department of Environment and Heritage has list controlled burning, or what it called “too frequent fire” as a “key threatening process to biodiversity” under the Environmental Protection and Biodiversity Conservation Act.


Six years before the deadly Black Saturday fires in Victoria in 2009, David Packham tried to warn Nillumbik Shire, where so many people were to die, about the “very dangerous fuel loads”.

Nillumbik Shire council was committed to reducing carbon emissions in its so-called “green wedge” area, where restrictions on removing vegetation around houses reportedly added to the dangers.

As I wrote in 2009:

In St Andrews, where more than 20 people are believed to have died, surviving residents have spoken angrily of “greenies” who prevented them from cutting back trees near their property, including in one case, a tea tree that went “whoomp”.

Dr Phil Cheney, the former head of the CSIRO’s bushfire research unit and one of the pioneers of prescribed burning, said yesterday if the fire-ravaged Victorian areas had been hazard-reduced, the flames would not have been as intense.

Kinglake and Maryville, now crime scenes, are built among tall forests of messmate stringy bark trees which pose a special fire hazard, with peeling bark creating firebrands that carry fire five kilometres out.

“The only way to reduce the flammability of the bark is by prescribed burning” every five to seven years, Cheney said. He estimates between 35 and 50 tonnes a hectare of dry fuel were waiting to be gobbled up by Saturday’s inferno.

Fuel loads above about eight tonnes a hectare are considered a fire hazard. A federal parliamentary inquiry into bushfires in 2003 heard that a fourfold increase in ground fuel leads to a 13-fold increase in the heat generated by a fire.


Remember the Sheahans, fined $50,000 for clearing a firebreak around their house… which became one of the few in the area to survive Black Saturday’s inferno.

Clare Prop 18th Jan 2013 09:42

“We’re all better off when this Neanderthal practice stops"

Takes one to know one :hmm:

Worrals in the wilds 18th Jan 2013 09:49

It is. One is reminded of Hitchikers' Guide to the Galaxy's MISPWOSO; the Maximegalon Institute of Slowly and Painfully Working Out the Surprisingly Obvious. That's not a criticism of the above author, BTW.

Thanks also for the voter fraud info :8; bit of a worry. Of course the problem with requiring photo ID to vote is that it's not a legal requirement to posess photo ID in Australia. A surprising number of people don't, and often they're elderly and/or vulnerable. Hawkey's Australia Card was a solution to that issue but IIRC it was loudly howled down as a Labor conspiracy ;).

Maybe it was, too; but in some ways it would have been easier than the current proxy photo ID aka Driver License system. Not everyone has a Driver License. The State 18+ cards don't list an address (in Qld, anyway) and are therefore useless for many ID checks. Passports are expensive and a hassle.

As every Australian citizen is legally obliged to vote, making photo ID mandatory ends up in a Catch 22, unless you pair it with a mandatory photo ID card system. Personally I'm not against the idea, but I'm quite right wing by left wing standards. :} Right wing lefties; probably yet another Queensland political anachronism. :cool: There are quite a few of us though...

I'll believe it when I see it. The Labor fire brigade will use everything at its disposal over the weekend to douse anything that might threaten the status quo.
Never ever assume that coppers (or the federal border/intelligence agencies for that matter) are either left wing or pro-Labor :hmm:. Maybe some of their hierarchy are, depending on the state (or federal, wrt the AFP) government of the day. The average hierarchy aspirant would support the devil himself if they thought there was a promotion in it. However, a fair majority of the rank and file are slightly to the right of Atilla the Hun, as witnessed by the various state police unions. IMHO one of Pickering's greatest weaknesses is his belief that the AFP are involved in some sort of pro-Labor conspiracy. It's like accusing John Howard of being secretly pro-union. :eek:

P.S. Binghi, we've agreed on this point before...;)

Fliegenmong 18th Jan 2013 10:37


"I'm quite right wing by left wing standards". .... Love it! :ok:

IMHO one of Pickering's greatest weaknesses is his belief that the AFP are involved in some sort of pro-Labor conspiracy. It's like accusing John Howard of being secretly pro-union.
Ha ha ha ha..... funny how the 'further right folks' jump at 'conspiracy's' :rolleyes:

Predictable and tiresome but still worth a giggle....yet......someone right now in, of all threads, the Friday Joke Thread', is drawing parallels between Adolf Hitler and the leader of the Free World:rolleyes:....nothing surprises...well except howard having the gaul to tell the US how successful his gun laws were, which is surprising, given how much of a sycophantic little lap dog he was/is 'I guess he gets a little pat on the head and be told to be quiet, or get sent to the kennel for that :p

Andu 18th Jan 2013 10:51

It's not the lower and middle level police, but the cops at the top who concern me, Worrals. A bit like those who make it to the top ranks in the military, they have to be as much politician as policemen.

They - or someone - have kept the lid on any investigation involving the AWU, the HSU or our very own Eileen for - how long is it now? - four years? 18 years in the AWU case, but the union refused to make a complaint, so how could they proceed?

I'm sure the street-level coppers who led the investigation(s) have been as frustrated as hell to see their work go nowhere. (We can only hope that "until now" can, in the next few days, be added to the end of that last sentence.)

But I agree with the comment above. I'd love to be wrong, but I don't think we'll see any high-profile arrests or earth-shattering revelations in the MSM any time soon - if ever. Politicians, like the big end of town, look after their own. To a man, (and woman), they all know that anything like this would create a precedent that could unleash a damaging whirlwind, risking their own particular dirty washing being revealed to the public - and I very much doubt it of there's one of them on either front bench who doesn't have something they'd much prefer stay hidden.

Worrals in the wilds 18th Jan 2013 21:00

Maybe I'm being over-optimistic. The Qld Police have always been National Party aligned, and one of the few nice things you can say about the former ALP state government is that they never tried to politicise the police service (it would have been like moving a mountain using a wheelbarrow and shovel anyway...:}) A lot of that is probably due to the previous Police Commissioner, who was fiercely apolitical :ok:.

I realise that's not the case in NSW and Victoria, where the police services have been used as political tools in recent years (as the Qld Police were by Joh's National Party government) :(. However, it's important to remember that all three states now have conservative governments, with no reason to either love the feds or cover up their misdemeanours.

18 years in the AWU case, but the union refused to make a complaint, so how could they proceed?
I think that's more the issue. There's not a lot they can do if no-one will talk; it would just be a big waste of time and resources. Also, generally coppers and unions co-operate at about the same level as the two Koreas :eek:. Both sides loathe and distrust each other, and both sides have good reasons to do so. I doubt anyone from the AWU would have had anything to say to the local coppers even if they had been sniffing around, and without someone rolling over there's not going to be much of a case.

Croozin 18th Jan 2013 21:14

This is worth watching. Like many if not most in Australia, I had never heard of the incident.

Of course, something like that could never happen here...

...could it?

For one, we have cardboard ballot boxes.

...and honest politicians.

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