CTC McAlpine/easyJet/JMC Sponsorship Selection
 

Scroggs asked for a new thread on this topic so here it is.

I know that some of you have been for selection already, so come on - what was it like?. Don't be shy - there are loads of us here who would like to know - please :)

Well, stage 2 is not a twilight zone, I have been there and survived to tell the tale. Just! It's a full day of computer-based and written aptitude testing... no surprises, nothing juicy to report... You need to get along there for 0930 (ouch!) and the day kicks off with a talk / q&a session on the scheme. There are up to 20 candidates per date, which, split into two groups, is essentially the capacity of the venue. Everyone seemed pretty high calibre, all with at least some sort of flying experience and I didn't meet anyone I wouldn't happily fly with (I can detect dickheads very rapidly!).

Not a very diverse bunch of people - overwhelmingly male, white, middle class - obviously this isn't a social inclusion project, but I do wonder why wannabes are all so alike! Strange. Would make a PhD actually.

As for what tests to expect, the computer tests are for co-ordination, arithmetic, memory, multi-tasking, and can get quite demanding if not impossible. But as far as preperation goes, each test has instructions and also gives you a practice example/game before you begin. There's also a group discussion exercise slotted in, again designed to be done without prior preperation. You're jumping in cold but the water's warm. It's a good day!

As for the silence from everyone who's done stage 2 already... probably because a) they're now conscious that the CTC people read this pprune stuff and are sensitive to it; b) Mary et al are perfectly nice, open and dedicated people, so once in there we're able to learn enough that there's little mystery or unanswered questions left to gossip or whine about; and c) folks either have been too busy rushing back for stage 3 and 4 already, or, are instead off drowning their sorrows having sampled the comforts of CTC's rather nice Dibden country club, er, training centre, and admired the hundreds of photos of recent type-rating graduates for EasyJet, BA, et al, but been unsuccessful in getting themselves invited back anytime soon!

Thanks for the lowdown CARB. Its nice to know somebody has made it all the way there and back alive! Seems like quite a busy day!
Did they give you any info about how many apllied or have got to Stage 2?
Im guessing there are still quite a few people,like myself, waiting to hear something back from the intial application. From talking to the others there do you think flying hours was a major factor in who got called for testing first?
best of luck with your application
Aerfungus

They're keen right now on getting 12 people selected for the February/March starts which means 6 people need to be chosen by xmas, to allow time for visas, class 1, financing, packing your bags etc. With four stage 2 events this month we can deduce that 70-ish people were called in so far, and they said they were first calling in people who gave early start dates... at least that was the plan. No clues as to how many applied, but they did allude to having lots of applicants that they intend to call in later, so if you haven't been rejected yet then I guess you just have to wait your turn!

As for flying experience, yeah that was maybe also a factor used in selecting the best-bets first, but plenty people just had a few gliding hours or a few ATC hours. Maybe once they're further down the line they'll call in people who've never actually tried flying yet, though I can't imagine many serious wannabes won't have at least taken a couple of trial lessons!

Just remembered... there will be a stage 5 which is an interview with the airline... the first batch of cadets will all be sponsored by EasyJet or JMC/Thomas Cook and they will want to meet their new potential recruits before investing so much money.

Hey Guys,

Was just wondering if anyone else had sent in their completed 2nd stage application form for ctc and had ticked that they were available either the 14th or the 21st December. Thats what I did and I'm still waiting to hear anything at all. Just thought I'd post to see if anyone else is in the same position or if anyones had a "Dear John, Sorry but you've not been successful at this stage" after faxing/mailing the completed app form.

Cheers
Chris

Brycie,

I ticked 21 December and got a reply back in the next day. I can't really help you more than that, though one thing does come to mind: the earliest date you stated on the application form that you could start training?

Stated start date as the 1st Feb 2003.... so dunno, would have hoped to hear back by now- but hey I realise they must be swamped.

Cheers for getting back NO.2 and all the best for today/tomorrow as I heard they were doing it on the 22nd now.

Chris

CTC Mcalpine
 

Hey folks, I have had an e-mail asking to complete the four extra questions etc and have sent them off by fax over a week ago. So far nothing has come saying yes or no to the next stage yet, is anyone else in this same position?
Also I was looking at their web site and noticed in the selection process page they say to send copies of exams, medicals and passports to them along with the completed extra questions. However nothing is said about this in the e-mail that came with further questions and I didn't send copies of my passport etc when I faxed them back. Has anyone else done the same thing but have heard back from them since? I'm thinking about faxing the whole lot again in case it never even got through.

Any help please?

hi

i applied on the 12.12.02 and i havent heard anything yet.

my start date was 01.01.03.

dont know what to make.



cheers


ph.

I wouldn't worry if you only sent your form back in the last couple of weeks and you haven't heard anything back, even if you said you could go for selection before christmas. Chances are they will have filled up the spots for the pre christmas selection before they got to your form, so you'll probably hear one way or the other after christmas.

I'm in the same position, sent back the questions by fax and haven't heard anything back yet. I also haven't sent anything but the answers to the questions, as when the email was sent that was all I was asked for.

ctc selection day
 

I was at the selection day and has been said before everyone concerned was very nice, helpful and tring to make what is a trying experience as painless as possible.

The selection day consisted of a Q &A session which in my opinion basically reiterated what is on the web site.

The group discussion was relatively easy take your time and think through exactly what pionts you want to make and your arguements for/ against your topic. ( the choices on my day were all topical issues which were relevant and in the news recently)
You have plenty of time to comlete all sections of the task so think everything through carefully.

The maths and english tests were straight forward however if you want to practice something similar to what you will face i recommend books aimed at business people, management or graduates. ( simply because of the format of the tests not the content)
The timing is tight but allows you to read each of the questions fully twice before answering for the verbal questions. However the maths test personally i didnt finish and most of the people I spoke didnt either.

The computer tests were difficult theres no two ways about it. Go to the doy in comfortable shoes etc that you would be prepared to flying in.(for tests were you use rudder pedals etc)

If you play lots of computer games you may have an advantage as there is a dodge the falling object part to the test to get practicing. ie you guide a triangle through a steam of objects falling down at different speeds etc.

the memory test in itself is quite easy but be very familiar with the layout of a keyboard.

For the maths test be familiar with rate of decent questions, speed distance time. All fairly basic and within the gen nav syllabus. I would recommend trevor thom for a quick practice but again no calculators. This is timed and you cannot miss any questions out.

there is a test were they asked you to look at instruments and pick what a/c they were showing. The instruments are RBI, COMPASS and turn indicator. again take your time and be methodical in deciding which one.

there is a test that asks you to input data to the auto pilot while noticing and cancelling warning signals this was ok but i and a few others didnt think the warnings were displayed for the full 3 sec.
The thing that made this really difficult was the keys you had to use to change figures and cancel the warnings( it helps if you are double jointed.

the test where you have to use rudder pedals was very sensitve in my opinion. The urge to step on the ball at times was overwhelming but caused the wrong movement esp as you are also trying to obseve and control another instrument with another sensitive control. (however perhaps this is a personal failing)

As for the total number of applications the number I was told was 400 total with the majority meeting the inital criteria. The main tool for weeding out being the 4 questions afterwards. In answering these my advice would be scour the websites of other companies who have in the past offered sponsorships (BA ETC) they include all the buzz words they are looking for.
As has been stated before they are trying to fill places for the start of the year therefore taking people who are avalible then first. The impression i got was that they were happy with the calibre of applicant they were getting.

The average applicant who was there was male and white but i think this was more to do with the short time scale and avalibility rather then design. I tried to speak to everybody on the day and the majority had degrees. This will help in the group disussion if the questions remain the same.

please do not take any of the above as gospel this is mearly my experience and hopefully helpful suggestions as to what may be beneficial to those still to go down.
Good Luck to everyone!

Yeah, that test is dodgy as heck. Sometimes the red lights come on for a split second, and, sometimes the 'new' settings for the autopilot are the same as the current settings. I just hope these anomolies have been the same for everyone otherwise half of us were playing with broken bats! (or whatever the appropriate metaphor is!).

Very confusing at first, but that test made a whole lot more sense to me after I twigged that the thing in the centre was meant to be an NDB, I don't think the instructions mentioned that as they were trying to explain in non-flying terms how to recognise the correct aircraft instrument displays.

For the maths test, I'd have done better if I'd known how many questions there were - the software doesn't allow you to skip a tough question and go back later if you have time, so you need to judge your progress accurately to avoid running out of time, or finishing too soon with botched rushed answers behind you.

The group discussion exercise could be messy if the topic bores you, I nearly fell asleep then came wading back in with points that seemed to go down like lead balloons, probably not what the (lone) assessor is looking for.

Interesting that they used the 4 written application questions to weed people out. I figured they'd basically be checking for readable handwriting, spelling, grammar, and some vaguely intelligent answers, but only using the actual substance of your answers for reference at the final interview.

My approach also was to research a few airline recruitment / careers advice type pages to get briefed up with all the right keywords, concepts and soundbites, then I put all that away, and wrote out my answers from the heart. For teamworking, I used a flying experience, and for overcoming difficulties (or whatever) I spun a crafty piece that explained the impressive nature and focussed purpose of my otherwise undoubtedly lengthy and seemingly unproductive and wasted time as a student, and left no doubt I'd eat ATPL exams for breakfast.

And, needless to say, I ran a spell check, drew lines on the page with a pencil, firstly wrote it all out quickly to check each answer fitted the space alright, then, on a fresh copy, I wrote it out carefully in ink... lastly rubbing out the lines then running it through the fax machine (better than mailing - hides marks, smudges, tipex etc!). Send in a dog's dinner and you're sure to get binned!

Hope this helps to add a little to the good advice above, best of luck to all!

Hey Chris,

I am not sure whether you are joking when you ask what an NDB is? If you are serious and you are also applying to pilot sponsorship schemes then I suggest you start to read round your chosen career a little.
I would estimate a high percentage of candidates applying to these schemes have a very good general knowledge of aircraft and systems. If you do not have some basic knowledge about such things it will not bode well in trying to demonstrate your enthusiasm for flying.

Just my opinion. Good luck with your application.

Cheers.

PT

Stage 3
 

Has anyone completed stage 3 of the CTC McAlpine Cadet Sponsorship Scheme? What was it like? Any tips?

Cheers

NDB
 

PT,

I agree that having some knowledge of the career you want to get into is good, but if Chris has little or no flying experience then I really don't think they'd expect him to know about things like NDBs.

Chris,

If you want to find out about NDBs etc, have a look in the radio navigation section of a PPL book, or similar.

Hi there,

Yeah you're right, if you have little flying experience then there is no reason to know what an NDB is. This may sound a little sad but I first learnt about VOR, NDB and ILS systems way before I started flying training from Flight Simulator. It may be a little geeky but it is an invaluable tool to learn about radio navigation and instrument flying. If computers are not your thing then I would recommend volume 5 of Thom "Radio Navigation and Instrument Flying". Anyway best shut up now cos' this thread isn't really about this topic is it.

I would be interested to know if anyone has heard of any start dates on the CTC course. Also, does anyone know the kind of timescale from initial application to a course start date if you were successful? I understand that they needed people to start in Feb/March and those cadets had to be sorted out by the end of December. Does that mean that the timescale for all recruiting is about 2 months? For example, if you had a selection day in Jan can you expect to start in March if you were successful?

Cheers

PT

CTC Stage 3
 

Hello all. Well I got to stage 3, but unfortunately I didn't survive to get to stage 4 - So, let me give you the low-down on my experiences on that day.

Will first of all I'll say that the CTC staff are some of the nicest people you will meet and that they genuinely want you to do well throughout their recruitment process. They have a very well managed training organisation, and by meeting the staff, it soon becomes quite clear why CTC is so highly regarded within the business.

Anyway, approximately half (8/16) who were at my stage 2 on Sat 14th were at the stage 3 the wednesday after. The stage 4 sim check was to be a day or so after for those who were to be successful.

The stage 3 consisted of another briefing, basically giving the format of the day. The 8 of us were split in to two groups of 4 for two group excercises - one was a verbal reasoning type- you are on a a boat that is sinking, there are x objects available but you can only take so many, which do you choose. This is almost identical to the group ex someone I know did with aer lingus, except they were stranded at the north pole in a broken down car instead.

The second is a construction excercise where you build a bridge to support a glass of water at the bridge's midpoint. Pretty standard stuff really.

Then you have lunch, before an approximately 1-hour long interview with two of the CTC staff, undoubtedly one or both will be directors of CTC-McAlpine or one of the other CTC companies. My interview was pretty old-school - the questions that stick in my mind are "tell me about what your parents do"... "do you think drugs should be legalised?"... "what do you think of racism" ... "what do your friends say your strengths and weaknesses are" ... "why should we offer you this job" ... "examples of team working" ... " proudest achievement" ... "when you've had to overcome obstacles" etc.

I was also asked a bit of moderately technical stuff which to be fair I should of known but had a bit of brain-fade. They asked what is the cruising speed in knots of a 757 at 30k ft, how does the ASI work, what would be your priorities if all of a sudden, one of the engines fell off!, what would you do if you were a FO and the captain decided to land the a/c when the weather was below minima and so on.

Of the other people who I chatted to who had been interviewed by some of the others, they had had a range of questions about easyjet & jmc, what they would do about leaving their g/f at home, their motivation to do the job, some didn't face any technical q's at all, etc.

At 10-30 the next morning, I had a call from Mary telling me I was unsuccessful, and she kindly took me through the points where I had not performed as they had expected.

Another poster questioned whether it is worth the 160 quid - ok it is very unusual to request payment from the potential recruit for any graduate job and I do not fully understand why the aviation industry feel the need to do it (except of course because they can) but would suggest you do actually get value for money and can gain an awful lot of information about yourself from the recruitment process and learn from industry insiders as to the state of all of the airlines at the moment, it's all priceless stuff.

I would be interested to hear how the other 16 on my stage 2 got on, esp Carb and diggler. I think carb wasn't at my stage 3 as there was an attempt (albeit lighthearted) by one of the CTC staff to "out" him - he didn't reveal himself but I guess Carb could be poker-faced. Anyway, I hope all that were at my assessment got through as they were a great bunch of people. I'm sure they would do well working with any airline.

Hope this helps,
BBD.

Good report big bus driver, and best wishes for your future efforts. You're correct that I wasn't at stage 3... wish I had been now just for the 'outing' - by Decision Maker perhaps? ;)... I was given a mention at stage 2 aswell, didn't quite catch it though. Shows they don't study the application form data very hard or read pprune closely or it'd be easy to match names to aliases... I also have mine engraved on my Nokia and on a t-shirt!

As for the issue of knowing a bit about flying, we shouldn't be critical of Chris's question, it's entirely possible to have gained some flying experience, up to say half way through a PPL, and not yet have encountered NDBs, which is why of course the aptitude tests assumes no prior knowledge. What I was suggesting was simply that if you do happen to have that knowledge and practical experience, that test is easier once you relate it in your mind to a real-life (or Flight Sim!) situation rather than the abstract puzzle it may first appear to be.

:D testing here i come!!

anyone else going on 18-01-03??

all reports make it sound similar to BA testing...which was at worst a great day out.

looks like there are those out there who have managed to achieve the ultimate goal and are starting in Feb, vv well done to those concerned.

any tips and advice would be appreciated!!:cool:

Brush Up!
 

I wouldve been at the test with you guys had it not been for the flu, I'm gonna send in my application very soon, What kinda questions do they ask in the apptitude tests in Stage 1? algebra? triginometry? physics? general knowledge?? etc etc?
My Maths is very rusty and I don't wanna mess up on that bit, what should I brush up on?
And they're wanting Medical Certificates from the Doctor and Optician to new applicants, any more info there?

Ta very much

I don't think I am too wide of the mark when I say that there is no room for critisism in not knowing what an NDB is prior to training. Hell, I'll wager the vast majority of us don't even have the foggiest idea how to use one properly until well into the IR training :)

NDB?
 

I may be the Master but there are some things I do not know, so what is an NDB?
No Damn Brakes??

Fill us in...

And can someone give us an example question (maths) that was asked at the test. I aint cheating, just preparing!!

Non-Directional radio Beacon

the thing you tune your ADF in to!

i covered it during PPL studies, but ms flightsim taught me about it first and is just as good and if youve got any interest at all in flying, surely bill gates finest is a good investment?

by the way, those that have testing on the 18th, when did you submit your applications? did mine on the 20th dec, got the confirmation email and not a sound since.

If you tune your ADF (automatic direction finder?) into an NDB then the arrow points to where the beacon is in relation to the aircraft, sort of like a compass. You can make non-precision approaches with them, or, enroute when there's none around worth monitoring, make good use of the equipment anyhow by tuning in regular radio stations and turning up the ident. ;)

I was taught all this at some point in my PPL training aswell. I agree MS FlightSim is good for familiarising with instrument navigation, saved a half hour off my PPL hours, so it pays for itself. Just don't practice anything else, like landings!

In response to the above, here is the format of the Maths questions... obviously they are not the exact questions but along the lines of the ones I remember during the computer testing bit.

devide 17444 by 14

or

Aircraft A sets off from Airport A at 10:00, and flies toward Airport B with a flying speed of 100 kts.

Aircraft B sets off from Airport B at 10:00, and flies toward Airport A with a flying speed of 150 kts.

Airport A and B are 300 miles apart. At what time do the aircraft pass one another?

What is 102 Deg F in Degrees C given that F=C*9/5 + 32.


I wouldn't be that worried about the q's, over 50% passed my stage 2 assessment so as long as your maths / verbal reasoning etc is to a reasonable std then you'll be ok. They aren't after Mathemeticians, just after reasonable all-rounders.

All the best,
BBD

Yeah, well as someone who botched everything, I'd say the majority of the maths questions are not actually all that hard (except the [big number] dividied by [something-teen] question), but practice, technique, time-management, concentration, how much sleep you've had, yada yada, are all important. In one test I hurried past time-consuming questions only to finish with time to spare (you cannot go back - doh!), in another test I pondored too long and ran out. Have fun and good luck!

I take it no calculators are allowed? And are the questions multiple choice?

Also, heard from other similar schemes (malgus) that they caught people going to the test assesment sessions for their mates!! Not advising or thinking of doing it or anyone to do this for that matter, u think anyone had done this so far???

If you want a good instrument nave program - can't recommend enough RANT. Radio Aids NAvigation Tutor. Excellent if a little tricky to control with a mouse. Sometimes just helps to get a simplistic picture of what is happening.

CTC
 

What's all this about easy maths tests? Either you lot are all brain surgeons or I'm a complete dim wit!

I've been on a few of these selection days in my time and I've never been asked to divide 17444 by 14. I really do hope they provide you with a piece of paper.

Do they? (Gulp)

Well I have got the email at last to say well done on Stage 1! Definetly better late than never! I havent checked the dates yet for this round.
Just wondering was the form send to you as an email before or as a link through their website again?
Aerfungus

Paper is provided for the math, and it's carried out on computer.

Stage 2: You will be given a URL to navigate to in which you'll find the second part of your application, 4 questions.

You must print this off and fax your answers back to CTC.

Regards,
B1.

Has anyone out there been waiting for an invite to stage 2 since early December?
Clearly the response to this scheme has been massive, but I would really like to know whether I have been left out in the cold! Like many others I originally indicated availability for the 21st Dec testing, but heard nothing. Specified earliest training commencement was 1/1/03!

Hi Guys and Gals.

Was waiting with anticipation to recieve the golden email regarding getting the link for the 4 questions (I applied on the first day and did not recieve a confirmation email for 2 weeks).

Anyway said email arrived today and i was ready to rush out and buy "The Teletubbies Easy Guide To Adding And Subtracting" to brush up on the maths - But NO........

"Following a review of the applicants we seek we will not be inviting you to the next stage" (BUMMER)

"We realise that this will be a dissappointment " (YOU BET IT IS)

So for anyone else who doesn't make it - Here's the old profile as I really thought i had some chance of being seen at least:

FEMALE
25
Business Analyst
PPL 120 HRS (Recieved via RAF Flying Scholarship) - Does that not tell them anything seeing as they use the same Pyschometric Testing!!

3 A-Levels (B's & C's)
10 GCSE's (A-C)
No Degree - But make up for it in other areas

7 years VERY ACTIVE member of the Air Training Corps - 2 years as a Cadet Warrant Officer

Loads of participation in aviation stuff

AND THE REST...................

If anyone else got knocked i'd like to know their profile.

To everyone else who has been progressing - The very best luck to you all, I hope you make it all the way

And AERFUNGUS if you feel like the travel back and forth is getting to much for you - Give us a shout and ill be glad to take it on for you, just let me know if i have to wear a skirt or trousers !!!


Funny Onion:( :(

Freda,
I too faxed my four question answers etc back to CTC around the 18th Dec and have yet to hear anything. Can you confirm that you received an email acknowledging CTC's receipt of your fax? I have not had anything from them since the invitation to fill in the extended form. Getting worried they didn't receive my fax!
Good luck

funny onion,

ghee i m really sorry for u,

it seems you have a lot of commitment with that background.

im not a expert, but i think they might think you have too many hrs, similar situation to BA.
ie uve picked up too many bad habits.

im only guessing, but i dont see why they rejected you.

has anyone else got any ideas.

FunnyOnion,

I can't see why you got turned down either.

Can't be the logbook hours (unless it took 120 just to gain the PPL!), because I had just short of that and slipped through alright. I'd guess the academic record wasn't impressive enough to make FunnyOnion add up to "a good bet on paper" as we were told they look for.

It's a useful profiling criteria, but academic success is something that just falls into many people's laps, courtesy in particular of a financially supportive family. Come the revolution... those who have personally achieved the most will gain the most! But life in the big business and public sectors is not that fair, currently.

FunnyOnion
Very sorry to hear you didnt get through.From what you have said about yourself its very surprising.I dont have nearly that many flying hours under my belt! Unfortunatly they might just look at you application,see no degree and not think to look into what else you have to offer!
Have you applied to many cadet schemes before?Im sure you have done the Aer Lingus one like 90% of the Irish population.
Well your top of my list if I need a substitute for my travels back and forth!Although Im well used to them.It will have to be trousers,skirts dont do my hairy legs justice!
Best of luck for the future,hope it all works out for you
Aerfungus

Any recommended websites for the kinda Maths Questions they'll ask me?

I could refresh myself in the wrong areas of Maths!

Gimme some Links please lads....

p.s. Sorry to hear Onion Babe!!!

Hi everyone!

I only faxed the 4 answers etc to CTC on Monday (as I was away over Xmas) and within 2 days had a date for the 2nd stage for the 24th Jan, which I couldn't make so they've changed it to the 1st Feb.

It all seems very weird that some people (like me) get speedy replies (despite my slow application) when others are waiting for weeks???

Anyone else going on the 1st Feb?

Good luck to all......


:cool: