You should just grow up

With all respect it is the grown up who takes all the facts along with a dosage of reality for the subjective parts to come to a conclusion on a situation.

It is not the grown ups who go running into something with no consideration for the consequences, both personal and industry wide.

The first 12 cadets received their wings in DUB and I had my first supernumerary today.

Well done guys for pushing through these hard times, despite all the bitter comments on here.

See you all soon.

Congrats mate. Your peers are proud.

I'd heard the cadets were on a basic salary, but very basic.

£16k........ 3rd party fixed term contract.......

The Ryanair recruiters on Linkedin seem to think everyone lives in lala land with how they market this as some sort of a uniquely good opportunity.

Thankfully significant numbers of pilots on there are stating the facts of what this programme is truly about and how anyone who completes it has little to nothing to be proud of for themselves. The cadets on the programme can post all they wish about their success but their colleagues in the industry are not looking favourably upon them.

Take the recruiter's advice and speak to actual Ryanair pilots (not current cadets), they will give you the reality of what the company are doing.

What's most laughable is they complain the ones calling it for what it is are "negative", well maybe if it was something positive they wouldn't have anything negative to say? Between 2017-19 there were hardly any negative posts because they were offering a decent deal.

iome

No you won't see us soon you utter fool. You will be on unpaid leave for a year after your little crash course "LNAV/VNAV" ends. And in your best case scenario after that, you will be send to Bucharest on some extortionate contract. Thrust me, by that time you will think back at this moment and be embarrassed by your own arrogance and ignorance.

Will I? Since my post I flew with two cadets on their supernumerary flights, some training this week.
I am happy people are getting into this industry, despite the opposition of so many on this forum.
I received the same treatment some 17 years ago, and despite that, I'm still here and still love it.
I'm sorry you are so bitter about your job/company, maybe is time for a career change.

All the best to you.

Hey guys,

long time I don’t read about someone going to Ryanair assessments.
Did anyone recently go to Bergamo or Rome? Looks like interviews are now carried out only in Italy due to less restrictions.

I applied a week ago, do you know more ore less which is the current average time before their first contact after sending the CV?
At the same time I am going through the ACE Pilot, I recall things from ATPL but I mean, that 14 evil subjects are way too much stuff. Hope they won’t go that deep into the thing, and prioritise what they see in the sim.

cheers!

iome

You'll be hard pressed to find anyone who isn't happy about people getting into the industry. What people are unhappy about is the exploitative method it is being done by and a sizeable portion of the blame lies with the people who sign up to this, because if no one signed up to it it wouldn't exist in its present form. The proof of this is when Ryr bonded people for the ratings, then as soon as their new type rating centre opened and Covid hit they saw the opportunity and started charging 30k again to get both very cheap pilots, fill up the training centre and the coffers.

30k to join for 16k basic pay and on a 3rd party contract that puts the employer totally in the clear and cadet totally in harm's way is what people take issue with, nothing to do with people getting their first break into the industry. Read those conditions off to anyone on the street and garner reactions, or is Joe public also bitter?

The 'you must be bitter' comments are the easy but inaccurate response. Someone said this to a guy on Linkedin who's background was USAF and currently flying widebodies in the US. People aren't jealous of these cadets but more outraged at others lowering the bar.

30k to join for 16k basic pay and on a 3rd party contract

For a 6 month training contract. After the 6 months are up another "self financed cadet" will take your place.

RYR is currently fully staffed, no one is leaving so there is no need to "hire" anyone. There is a need though to keep selling type ratings as it generates revenue. Hence a 30K TR plus 6 month training and ...you guessed it, you are back out on the street.

A quick question for the anti-Ryanair brigade…

Do you have the same resentment and anger towards the 1000’s of cadets that paid the 30k pre 2018? Or is it particularly the current cadets that you treat like a peice of :mad: on your shoe?

Genuinely curious.

It's more to do with expectations. Pre covid, I think Ryanair still charged but it was significantly less than 30k. Also pre covid there were far fewer jet experienced people looking at Ryanair for a job and a newbies chances of ongoing employment were much better than now.

Ryanair has no need for new pilots and most of these wannabes know that, but choose to play roulette with bank of mum and dads money anyway.

Why do you assume that these cadets play with mum and dads money? I am one of these cadets and I can assure you that I did not get a penny from anyone to make it happen. It was all hard work and dedication to make it financially possible and without taking any loans and debts. Stop making assumptions and if anyone wants to add anything to the thread then stick to the facts. In the past all of the cadets (who passed) got a job offer, we dont know for sure whats going to happen after the first wave of cadets finish the line training but statements saying that Ryanair is just taking the money and going to leave you dry is just nonsense. Can you imagine what implications it would have to them? Let's suppose they don't hire any of the cadets from the many courses this year. We are talking hundreds of people. Then once FR would really need new crew they would have to either offer a pretty much free type rating for people to join (as nobody would pay for it knowing that there is DEFINITELY no job after) or just offer the places to the cadets who have already completed the TR.

Also, for some, it is either now or never (due to age, other commitments etc) and Ryanair is the only shot there is out there at the moment. And from speaking to the other cadets, just like me most of them have a back up plan/qualification/job they can land back on.

There is so much hatred on this thread, it is unreal. Just because it does not make sense for you to pay the 30k does not mean it is a bad option for somebody else (even though not without its risks) and calling them 'stupid', 'dumb' or anything similar only shows your lack of proper arguments.

Some people splash their money on cars, some on holidays, others on going out and parties. Some decide to spend it on the only option there is at the moment to make their dream come true and if it does not work out, then so be it. I want to know that I have done everything I could to fly a jet. Id rather regret Ive done it than realise in 5 years that its now too late, lost the energy, been too long after the flight training etc etc

Just please stop with all these judgments as you really don't know the lives of other people and not everything is black and white.

I don’t think any of us “resent” these people, except Ryanair Captains and FOs who are at home on furlough whilst flight decks are solely filled with training captains and cadets.

People are trying to warn you about what is coming. The previous transactional experience of excellent training and rapid experience gain in exchange for zero employee rights is no longer present. The current deal is keeping the balance sheet of EMT moving and increasing Ryanair’s pool of upside manning at zero cost to themselves. If you are able to pay the bills and live of this then caveat emptor. However, we are trying to warn you that there is a high likelihood that the results is you will be forming out for your LPC reneweal for a year or two with zero flying or income inbetween.

This is a separate argument altogether, you’re getting angry at cadets because of what they want to do with their own money and their own risk.

Im talking about all the previous cadets pre 2018, who were paying 30k (It didn’t reduce until early 2018). Surely they were driving down the conditions, racing to the bottom, part of the problem etc just like the current cadets? This is the argument I’m talking about. Or are they different?

Jwscud

Exactly, warning is fine if you state the facts (not made up assumptions). It's the comments like 'you're playing with the bank of mum and dad' and 'you are an idiot if you do this' that are getting under my skin.

I've done it for 30k as it seems a good shot for me. If it was 100k I would not do it as I could not afford risking and losing that kind of money. I would just wish all the best to those that would go for it with the 100k and thats it. Some people just cant get over the fact that there is a possibility of it working out and are so bitter as they dont want them to succeed and be shown that it was in fact a good decision.

Anyway, good luck to everyone!

Nobody has any reason to not want "you" to succeed, nobody on this forum even knows who you are and I don't think anyone has anything against anyone individually. It is the whole programme as a whole that people get frustrated at.

You cannot yet claim "in fact" that what you have undertaken here is a good decision. You will only know this in about 2 or 3 yrs time. I neither hope it is or isn't, just stating you cannot yet come on here and tell everyone it is a good decision.

As I said this morning, nobody (at least not me) wants anyone else to fail. People do however take this profession seriously, we have to because our livelihoods depend on it. So when a company ask its employees to put 30,000EU in return for such an exploitative contract, it is only necessary to expect a backlash from industry peers. Why? Well what each and everyone of us accepts is what becomes the norm. Now that you have accepted this, airlines will expect us all to accept it. Our profession then becomes completely untenable. Therefore people are naturally going to get angry at those who accepted it. Our actions have consequences not only for ourselves.

Arguments about pre 2018 aren't really valid. You had command possible or the opportunity to fly a 777 in the middle east in 3/4 yrs -> either option gave high pay that could justify the initial outlay. You were flown off your socks and nobody was kept home on unpaid leave in order for you to fly. With this though you're wondering whether or not you'll make it to your next LPC. It is an entirely different kettle of fish and in no way can you compare the two.

You are completely contradicting yourself.

It is the very pilots I am talking about from years previous who have joined this scheme, paid the money upfront with no guarantees and terrible pay, who have kept this scheme going up until now, but all of a sudden it’s the current generation who are to blame.

The scheme is exactly the same now as it was back then, ultimately there is no difference.

It was ok to pay huge amounts of money and accept terrible conditions with no guarantee of a job back then, but it’s not now for some reason. It’s a real head scratcher that one.

Remember the aviation industry is very unstable, so the risks involved have always been huge covid or no covid. This scheme was going not long after 9/11, this used to be mentioned in the training contract as one of the possible reasons for not getting an employment contract after training, eg terrorist attacks. This has now been replaced with pandemics as an example.