oh...sorry...one more thing to add before I get some more replies (hopefully...thanks to all who have);
Whom or what is some P2F options really hurting? As far as I can tell, if the aircraft is substantial enough (BE1900 v. PA34) and the operation only is ticketed for single pilot, the only person that it takes from is the one paying for it. It helps small 135 operstors, and keeps guys on track. It is not like [for example] the fact that I paid for my own BE1900 type and 250+ hours PIC in the airplane drove down the pay or benefits for ANYONE else in the industry. I'm not saying all P2F schemes are good, it is just that flight instruction is not for everyone or always the best answer. I personally would not trade those hard 250 hours on the line with the 1900 for 250 hours instructing PPL or CPL students. Being a CFI is wonderful for those who take pleasure in it, or learn from it. God knows I love to teach as well (taught arabs how to work on their brand new F-16s for two years), but being a CFI is all people on PPRuNe seem to advocate to build time properly.

Who might you suggest suffered by me paying to sit and fly a 1900 for a single pilot outfit? All while the rostered captain sat next to me and took an earned break.

First,"rostered captain" says it all, really. No Chief Pilot worth his salt would accept that as turbine PIC time, if he knew the background. I've done enough interviewing, in the hiring side of the table, to be sure of that.

Second, paying to act as a crewmember, performing work, is signal enough to employers that the market pay is too high as it is. While you are not denying someone employment, you are cheapening the "product", that is, pilots.

GF

Saying I'm wrong to try and navigate this rotting business as best I can is easy to say for someone who had it a lot easier and with less "hurdles" along the way (certainly less bull$#!*). I, too, know plenty of "'ol dogs" who don't envy me trying to make it from the bottom in this day in age in professional flying. I refuse to believe that my time and money was not well spent. How can I be signaling to anyone that the pay is too high? How is it any different than me flying the airplane with simply another rated crew member? I learned a lot and did a fair amount of hard flying over those couple months. How could it be better to buzz around smashing bugs in local practice areas for 250 hours training people? I mean that with the utmost respect to the CFI profession. But, tell me truthfully, if a CFI at any level could honestly EARN an extra surplus of $35,000 or so, that he / she would not spend it to log QUALITY time and experience on a high performance twin turboprop airplane weighing more than 12,500lbs. to further their career or better their chances to move on to the next step.....REALLY?!?!? As long as the program incorporates good training methods / practices, and your not sitting in an otherwise 'paid' seat? Pilot in Command is Pilot in Command...it all depends on the person. I've flown with guys with 6,000hrs PIC turbine who are as brain dead as a 300hr student pilot. It should be all about quality not just quantity. Along with all of the over exposed problems with aviation today, I believe the one factor that is left untouched is the failure of the testing / evaluation / standards. It's gone from 100 micron to 10 micron filters.

Considering that, not only will you (and many others, it's not personal) work for free, you will pay to fly is a pretty strong signal.

Proclaiming that others, of whom you have no knowledge, had it easier than you is presumptuous, at the least. In forty years of flying, I have buried friends, been thru bankruptcies, been thru wars, struck and lost a career. I had it easy compared to many, many pilots on this and other websites.

It is not easy, it never was, never will be. There are no shortcuts. I know a guy who had 5,000 hours of Cherokee CFI time before he got a job as co-pilot on a B99. The Seventies were hard, made the present look like a cakewalk--RJ jobs by the thousand.

That's all and good luck

GF

With all due respect, I realize the kind of painfully long and less than ideal jobs that those before me have had to suffer through, make my situation seem like a holiday. I'm mearly trying to address some inconsistencies that I've been made aware of as of late. Though I am young and still laking a great deal of wisdom, I do appreciate the nature of this industry and the sacrifices it demands. I am, in every way, ready and willing for my opportunity to make those sacrifices. It just seems that "the powers that be" have become unbelievably dissalutioned over the last decade or so. "galaxy flyer"...you obviously realize that times have changed. I, without a doubt, understand the difference in ideology that you and I have expressed. I don't think your necessarily wrong, just different in your outlook. The end result is the same (I hope). I missed a number of years of flying to serve Uncle Sam, and my life just does not suit being a CFI. So, I either had to throw in the towel or pay someone to boost me toward one of the "RJ jobs by the thousands". If I can circumnavigate even that route, why wouldn't I?

On a lighter note...thanks a ton to everyone whom has chimed in; keep the advice, ideas, and of course the constructive criticism coming! All the best!

In the US, Silver Airlines and Great Lakes are hiring, as are several Regionals and, with an ATP Written you should be close to interviewable. If you need more TT, try pipeline patrol, banners, etc. There is nothing disreputable about CFI time. There are few other avenues unless you are damned lucky and walk into a corporate job that falls over you. I know a guy who interned out of ERAU, graduated into a G IV, but lightning can strike, too.

Outside the US, Maun and one other tourist areas in Africa are possibility. Check the Maun thread in African Aviation forum. You probably know your way around Afghanistan better than anyone here. Decent time, if you get on. Question being, what ar your chances with a US domestic when you return. There are probably 7,000 RJ pilots just waiting to get on and they will primo! Loads if 121 time, ATP, and might have a flow agreement with mainline company. Wide open hiring is five years away.

GF

From another thread in this forum
 

Try Falcon Express Cargo Airlines in Dubai, you need 500TT and 300 Multi and 1900 rating for a chance

Your profile lists you in Dubai so maybe you can go knock on the door.

I have tried.....no comment

Your best experience was pissing blood when you landed.....blimey.....

It's hard out there in any area for any experience. I'm UK based and have been a 757 capt until the company went bust in Nov.To get another jet command it would be ME/China/Japan, but what do you do if your wife doesn't want to move ?

Got 2000h on corporate jet, TT 2400. I will be jobless in a few months. I'm already applying for 1 year, every single day. And so far not 1 single result. I'm really considering to change my career although i'm heading the 40'ies.
So i advice you strongly to have a plan B. I've never done that and i regret that. 1000h is still nothing, sorry to say.
Good luck anyway.

1000 hours? Enough to fly a Cessna 172/206.


$175,000 to get where you are at? You must have done something wrong somewhere.


It seems to me that you have made some wrong decisions, and after burning such a huge amount of money to arrive nowhere shows that until now you have really been not successful, so at that point you should refrain from judging the instructor path "smashing bugs in local practice area", or refrain from commenting on 6000 hours PIC turbine who are brain dead.
It seems to me you are the one in the bad position right now, not the flight instructor you are not, not the turboprop captain you are not.

It is very possible you'll get your chance with some regionals, but being hired by a regional with $175,000 of spending is nothing to be proud of.
I'd rather be a flight instructor smashing bugs in the practice area with a basic CPL and instructor rating.


A couple of months in a P2F scam that's only an introduction of flight I am afraid to say.

What you must understand is that some individuals lives take them in different directions. After going to one of the premier flight schools in the US (which by the time I left was more expensive per quater than Harvard!), the market changed and slowed considerably. So, I went to university to finish my bachelor's degree. Again, the flying was very hard to fund, even working full time. Once the military came in play, I had missed months of flying and had to play catch up. To add fuel to the fire, the accreditation situation changed and I had to "repeat" 48 credit hours worth of classes from the "premier flight school". After my last deployment, I was hired than almost immediately laid-off from a King Air gig. That is when I decided to go work for Lockheed training foreign nationals on how to maintain thier new F-16s. I would have done the instructor thing (GLADLY), except it would have required more money! I know people whom have graduated from the straight four year program at Embry Riddle with more student loan debt than that. Lastly, it is sad that the US does not have such "national" cadet programs like some pacific, middle eastern, and european operators.
Plus, I'm sure you and everyone else that have read and or contributed to this thread are aware of the hundreds of fellas that have barely made a monetary sacrifice and slid right in to a right seat A320/B737NG job at 350 hours TT.
So, I must hold my ground, and ask that before you judge or condemn me for my chosen avenue, perhaps you can take a moment to realize that I've shown perseverance and a willingness to do what it takes. The end result and quality is all that really matters. As far as I can tell, I may not have always done things the most efficient way, but I don't regret sticking with it. So if there is any one whom is wrong, sir, it is you about me. I'm just looking for some professional guidance and perhaps some opportunities to consider.
Thank you

Good lord, you in debt for 175K? I don't know what I could tell you. Right now its as bad a pilot job market as I have ever seen and I been around since the mid 1970's, Wiggins Airways is looking for a Beech 99 Capt. For a Maine Base. 33K to start, but you are short a good 1000 hours for them. I know guys that are in debt for 80 to 90 k and were flying for some regional or another making 19 k a year. No money now and it was no money 30 years ago too. But guys stand in line for it. You sure got your self into a financial mess if that amount is all loans. heck you would be in dire straights if you are on the hook for a third of that.

danbpilot:

alright I see, I thought you were looking down the instructor career path.

It's hard to believe that with your profile, your background and your 1000 hours you won't find anything. Try the jobs on single piston engines aswell, after all with 1000 hours TT you are still at the very beginning of your career. I believe you could have done the exact same thing (1000 hours and looking for a job) with slightly less $$$. Good luck.


Yes but it concerns mainly the instructors with some experience, or the experienced turbine/jet captains. With your profile in Asia it is very unlikely, but who knows...

Thanks for the advice sir. I've emailed over 160 cover letters and resumes over the last 6 months. You name the corner of earth and type of operation...I've knocked on the door (metaphorically in most cases). Just making follow up calls and sayin' my prayers. Anyone know what the "real world" minimums are with companies like Dynamic Aviation, AAR, Inc., Phoenix Air, Rampart Aviation, etc.? I know what the websites say, but what are they actually hiring F.O.s at?
Thanks to All

There are minimums and then there is competitive. Competitive at Dynamic is closer to 4000TT with prior military flying experience, or 6000TT with experience flying their types.

I worked along side a govt contractor operating a king air, and I asked what ther pilot group looked like... They had 13 pilots, 11 were prior military pilots with at least 2000 hours when hired. One was a prior special ops guy who got his civilian ratings. The last guy had no military experience but had several type ratings including 747 and over 15000TT when hired. You might just have to bite the bullet and go to a regional to build up some time before those goal posts move to 1500TT.

Remember, lots of the guys going to these jobs are prior military pilots, how have flown in the AOR doing similar type missions, over 2000TT, and include guys who have already done ISR, special warfare, etc... I met one guy trying to get hired at Airscan and he was a pilot in the 160th SOAR, just to give you an idea.

Well, that's 213 applications / cover letters / resumes in the outbox or floating through the world wide web....now it's just the follow-up and wait game. Oh, and for those whom might care...as of 4 days ago, Falcon Express Air Cargo in Dubai is not hiring.

forget sending out resumes......knocking on doors is the only way, keep trying and dont give up! good tip, find out where the Chief Pilot goes for a beer!!I joined Falcon in early 2004, i first knocked on the door in 2001!when i was at Falcon some guys waited over 6 months in Dubai, and kept knocking on the door.While your waiting go and fix the the UAE F16's to keep the cash coming in.