Scotthooker, I see what you mean. I think there will be lots of people who will struggle to finance this, myself included. Will having a job offer at the end of the course carry any weight with the bank I wonder?

Guys, really, FFS.
A few ABSOLUTE truths for you all.

- No matter WHAT route of training you take, right now there are virtually no jobs in the Market place AT ALL for newly qualified pilots. It does APPEAR to be getting a little better, but nothing so firm as to hang your hat on.

- The ONLY options that have been generally open for the last two years are ryanair and easy. You WILL pay around £30k for your the rating with either.

- It is NOT as simple to GET one of these jobs as simply "hello mr O'Leary, here's my cheque, when do I start?"

- Even if you go moduar, you should budget for this route, Inc T/R, costing you at least - AT LEAST - £80k overall.

- If you self sponsor, the most likely outcome is that you will spend virtually as MUCH money as you would on his scheme and then spend probably at least half a year unemployed. At LEAST.

I really, really cannot stress loudly, longly, highly, or big enough that the major benefit of this scheme is that you have the job at the end. Yes, there are some other benefits - financial and paid TR etc, but you absolutely positively MUST understand tha getting a job if you self sponsor is THE hardest bit.

Stop :mad: whinging about the fact that TCX haven't offered to pay the whole thing for you, or that FTE aren't going to secure the loan for you and MAKE it happen for yourselves. ****, or get off the pot.

Sorry if this is harsh, but some of you lot are bloody clueless about the harsh reality of what will happen if you 'just' self sponsor. Jeez. Seriously there are hundreds of us already qualfied who would LOVE the opportunity tcx are offering and (some of) you lot are whinging that you don't like the colour of the training AC. Get. A. Grip.

For those who are saying " it's my life ambition, but I don't have anything to secure the loan on" well I do feel your pain, but ever thought of saving for it? If it's really that much of a dream then EARN it, dont just expect someone else to make I possible for you.
Honestly this whole thread is becoming unbelievable.
Rant off. Best of luck to those who recognise just what a good opportunity this is, and that it's the job that's the real prize.

My main point was this: All in all despite the benefits of such a scheme the big matter is the 81k

historyftw - that's it in a nutshell. That's why the competition for such schemes is actually very very limited given the £81k hurdle.

I personally would never go self-sponsored integrated as the thought of doing a CPL/IR test with £82k hanging over my head does not appeal, and I actually think modular + RYR TR is a better option for me, as I'm paying chunks at a time.

It's a really disappointingly organised scheme in the end, but there will be those for whom £81k is small change and so this is perfect.

A word of warning - anyone thinking of securing loans on parents properties should come to the conclusion that they can not afford it. You do not risk a family home that's taken 25 years to pay for on on a blue book.

Any more news?
 

Has anyone else received an invite for assessment? Spoke to TCX on Monday and they told me FTE were sending TCX the list of candidates and that assessment starts tomorrow! I live in Vietnam and it will take me 2 days to get home (not to mention £900!) so am getting anxious now. Just wondering if all the people whose online accounts said 'skills assessment scheduled' had received invites or was that a red herring?
:confused:

Cheers guys for any info you care to share, and good luck to those who have been invited for assessment :ok:

Simon

If you log on to your candidate profile - check the date on the "skills assessment scheduled" bit. If it is around this week, so since when they have been telling people, should give you an indication.

Hope that helps

PGS

FANS,
I do actually understand what you're saying, but stop and think for a moment - you don't want to fly the CPL or IR test with £82k debt hanging? Totally understandable. But you'd rather do it having spent £50k and with no job to go to, knowing that the chances of GETTING a job are slim (to say the least!)?

For you - clearly this isn't the right opportunity. You've stated that and I respect that. Clearly you have your head screwed on. Just do NOT overestimate how easy it is to get into Ryanair. It really, really isn't that easy. I speak as someone who failed to do so.

FWIW [clearly] I disagree that the scheme is disappointingly organised. For my money, anyone who is planning to undertake professional pilot training would be an absolute fool to not look at this....the cost is a nasty headline fact, agreed. Indeed the financial requirements will prohibit some otherwise excellent candidates from applying (although I get REALLY fed up of people claiming "it's my dream, but I don't have a property to secure a loan on - it's not fair!" but not actually being prepared to go work and earn the money to fund it!) but the truth is - in actuality, the fact that it leads to a job almost certainly (for instance TCX honoured their cadet commitments in 2008/09 when the market was at it's worst -so you should have some confidence) makes the OVERALL package probably cheaper than the route to a flying job through any other method. The headline cost, doesn't always reveal the full picture.

"Even if you go moduar, you should budget for this route, Inc T/R, costing you at least - AT LEAST - £80k overall."

Clanger, does your figure of £80k overall for a modular course "include" TR costs?

I'm nearly completing my training and IF I incur any debt, it will be minimised due to keeping any loan at bay for the last 10 years and my debt would be around half or a just a quarter of that £80k (incl. TR and depending what a/c I choose to fly and how I get my TR). The overall total modular cost for me (excl. a TR) would be around £40-50k. If your including the cost of a TR within this cost, then your figure is more accurate.

I do know a few other ways in without paying for a TR, so don't get too immersed in having to "pay for TR" - it's simply not the case, if you research hard enough, time it right and find the right deal.

One should not just aim for the airlines either, there are other jobs, just as much fun and with a resonable salary and I'm not necessarily just talking about the big jets.

Spike,
Yep, my budgetary figure of £80k would include a TR at [the likes of] FR or EZY. It also includes some aspect of living cost - Essentially what I'm trying to get across is that Mod will likely cost you the thick end of fifty grand normally (although I know some people have done it for substantially less - hence I'm talking about a "budget for" figure, not a "it will cost you..." figure). Once you have added a TR on top, you get to the rough figure of £80k

There are obviously other factors, prevailing exchange rate, not going for jet job, getting a job through someone you know etc....however, the comparison here was with the TCX scheme therefore it seems fair to compare the TCX scheme with the mose likely sources of getting to a similar first jet job. This purely on the basis that whilst I'm sure lots of new pilots HAVE got jobs in the last two years without paying TR, the number will be tiny, comparitively.

I was also very careful to specify cost - not debt. You don't HAVE to get into debt to train at all, but whether you do or do not take debt, the COST remains the same.

Clanger - personally, I would rather take £50k, paying as I go, not being stuck at an integrated FTO if things don't work out for any reason and not having the stress of big debts (which you should never under-estimate).

I understand that the chances of a job are very low at the moment, and that's another reason why modular suits me as I can slow down/speed up accordingly.

I agree that going into flybe and then TCX is a fantastic career platform, but the £81k would just be a millstone round my neck. Horses for courses. The point I'm concerned with is that people need to realise that this is real money and on their salaries you can not take out anything like a full loan.

Equally, I still don't understand why this scheme is offered in the current climate. TCX could interview the 1000s of current fATPL holders and have a start date in 18 months/2 years very easily. My natural sceptism suggests that this is just another money making scheme.

(Clanger) Exactly :ok: We're on the same playing field now.

Essentially the total cost for FTE is a typical "modular route + TR costs".

Best way in is being bonded in my opinion, guranteed job and slightly less pay but easier on the pocket in the long run, depending how you want to look at it.

What ever happens people, just don't give up with your training and do what's best for your circumstances. :ok:

If I decided to continue with a scheme like this, my main concern is IF you don't perform to the airline's standard/requirement and your told you are no longer are being supported by the airline, then your paying for something that could have been done cheaper by another way and you have to deal with the consequences.

Is it just me, or why are we not hearing anything from TCX?

Seems the debate here predominantly is about the financing, but what is there to finance if no one is offered the deal?

Interviews are to start in just two(!) days... as they will be interviewing until the 27th, I expect quite a number of candidates to be called in. What's going on?

I know no one has been offered a place yet so the finance discussion may be a bit redundant. However, no point in putting in the effort if financing is impossible. For some it may require extensive travel to the interviews so they need to know its worth it.

From what people have been saying here I gather this to be an impossible scenario(s).

a.) Recent graduate, 22years of age. No savings realistically. Parents still paying mortgage without a spare 50k lying around to support said graduate with finance other than to secure any loan on house.

b.) 32year old saved up for long time to pay for CPL but is now too old to realistically form a career to make the investment worthwhile

c.) Graduate with rich parents support him with cash investment

So out of all them person C is the only one who can really look to go on/ benefit this scheme?

Person A being most applicable to myself - does he stand a chance at all? Say he gets on the TC scheme, his parents put up the security for the finance can he get a loan for the full amount with this security plus the help to gain security from TC and then pay it back when in work.

I got the call Iam down for tuesday 27th and I got called yesterday. From what the lady said on the phone all the days were full as I had orginally been down for saturday morning but cudn't make it and asked to change, and the only day she could offer me was wednesday.

Greyb33

Historyftw,
I agree with your comments about ascertaining whether there's any milage in even applying first (i.e. CAN you get the finance).

However, your scenarios are incorrect, because they're too general - they assume for example that every recent graduate has parents who haven't got the equity to secure a loan, that every graduate has no savings.
I caveat this right up front by saying that I'm not making ANY comment on the feasibility, achievability or sanity of borrowing the money, just that this is the reality

1/ There is no requirement to secure lending against a parent/guardian/random-stranger-in-the-street's property, for that property to be mortgage free. The requirement is that it holds sufficient equity to cover the loan [to the lenders satisfaction]. If the parents have EQUITY in their home AND are prepared to "risk" that, then you have a loan route available.

2/ Assuming your profile age is correct, then you should be aware that you don't actually turn to dust once past 30....believe me - 35, 30, even 25 years is more than enough time to have a VERY reasonable [second] career. Whether TCX would give you a shot at 30/35/40 years of age is a different question, but I can tell you their last intake of cadets included a 30+ year old for certain.

3/ Yes, there is always "child of multimillionaire". However, having experienced one of those whilst I was training. I can pretty much tell you that "those" characters MAY have other personality flaws that would preclude them. Either way, I would strongly suggest the proportion of (3)'s to the proportion of (1)'s will be vastly in favour of the 1's.

I re-iterate, if you can't afford the course now, if you can't GET the loan, then go and bloody work for it, rather than crying that you're not eligible for the loan now (NOT aimed at you historyftw, btw - a very general comment).
And if you can't make the requirements right now, then why focus on how unfair it is? It's unfair that I will never get a chance to fly Concorde. It's unfair that people my age got fully sponsored training from a variety of operators, where I had to pay. It's unfair that I'm devilishly good looking, with a wicked sense of humour and other people look like John Prescott (alright, I made that last bit up....)

The point is LIFE is unfair.

If Aviation is where you want to be, it's up to YOU to make it happen....either by moving yourself from a (1) situation to a (2) and hoping any scheme such as this is still available when you're ready to start, or by self sponsoring yourself and starting when you can. TCX will not be short of applicants for this scheme, rest assured of that, so if you aren't eligible now, that really is hard luck -but don't whinge about it, DO something about it.

Clanger -

I can't emphasise just how much I agree with you. I'm sorry if what I've said before comes across as I do not agree. Most of what I've said is rhetorical or deliberately playing devils advocate to spark a response/debate. And like you say your comments are not aimed at me - just in general.

I have tried not to whinge about it as I am not a whingey person I'm sure theres some cliche about it but in general I just "keep calm and carry on".

Also - agree very much with the child of a millionaire comment...god knows I've come across a few in my lifetime. In fairness there are several who are as down to earth as anyone but not all the time!

Any who - good response. Thank you.

No loan guarantee by airlines ....
 

I was on one of these 'mentored' schemes starting back in 2007.

The original plan was for the airline to provide 100% loan guarantees, throwing the net wide open to those of the best ability (rather than filtering those of ability out who were unable to secure the funding).

However, a short time into the application process, it became clear the guarantor element would not be provided.

The reason being, the bank required the company to deposit several million pounds in cash for the lifetime of the loans. :eek:

Given the current financial situation - I would rule out any guaranteed training loans in the future :{

Anyone going for testing on the 27th from the continent (NL,BE,DE,LU)?? Would gladly drive together. PM me!!!!

Clanger,

Not everybody is able to walk into a job which enables them to put that sort of money aside

Being realistic isn't always a moan. From what you've said, i take it you have your licence and are searching for your first job? i understand the frustrations in this but think yourself lucky to have been able to raise the finance required and that you now have the licence to your name. Other people working just as hard, if not harder just can't save those vast sums up...now THAT is frustrating, especially when the jobs start appearing again and you can't even apply.

Anyway, i think we should get this back on topic please everybody!! :ok:

Hi all,

Just a quick question; I am through to stage three with my testing tomorrow so I am staying in Peterborough tonight. Is there anyone else there tonight who wants to say hi?

Cheers

Richw626

yes I think it is over because assessments will begin tomorrow. I agree with you on the fact they can inform us whatever their choices.

TCX
 

Congrats to all who got through to Stage 3. :ok: I wish you all the best of luck for the remaining stages.

Unfortunately I did not make it, a bit gutted really. I suppose when this sort of thing happens you start wondering about the reason's why, which brings me to my two greatest regrets as far as this process was concerned:

1. I wish I had written a page per question as some of the others did :} I sure as hell would not have thought my 4 pages was a bad effort. If I was the one reading it all, I would appreciate clear concise answers.

2. Secondly and probably my main reason - My "age" :ugh:like clanger32 mentioned...35 and starting a 2nd career is not impossible, I just think in my case, a 35 year old candidate and TCX MBA's start punching ROI numbers. Thinking of it, I should have mentioned to them that I'm more than happy to join management at retirement age...I already hold a MBA, that means I could probably work back the additional 10 years I'm too old :E by the way, would be interesting to know whether anyone post 30 made it to stage 3?


Oh well, so it goes...some doors close, others open...just as long as we don't focus on the closing door thereby not realising the ones that open.

Right enough talk, back to my ATPL's....my new mission starting today..."have my ATPL theory done (I'm half way through Module 1) by time TCX cadets do their 1st solo's :}" who's with me??? :O

Take care guys and again best of luck to all stage 3 candidates

EGNH19 - I agree with your opinion regarding giving bad news at the same time as the good news. There will be many applicants who won't have read this thread, all of whom will still be waiting for a call which clearly isn't going to come if it hasn't already. I learnt how to do chain mail when I was in year 7 at school; it's not hard and I hear there's this new fancy technology called email now too! How hard would it be to email all those who didn't get through? Any news is better than no news.

I've concluded that I now have a free weekend. What's bugging me though is how I completed stage 2 : I received my questionnaire on the Monday shortly after 9am but only saw the email on Wednesday evening and sent it off 1am Thursday morning. The email requested a reply within 3 days, which doesn't really define my deadline as either midnight Wednesday or 9am Thursday. I'm starting to think I spent the week waiting for a phone call that they were never going to make...

Best of luck with all those heading to Peterborough over the next few days. As a wannabee who's been riding out the economic wave for the last two years waiting for the tide to turn, I know just how good an offer like this is.

A lot of people on here are moaning about lack of finances upon completion. Fair enough repayments are as ugly as the course fee itself, but that's just a sign of the times if this is the route you want to take, you could always go modular. Offers like this are few and far between at the moment. Take the bitter for the sweet. :ok:

I'm curious to know a bit of background to those of you who were lucky enough to proceed to phase 3.

Any previous airline experience (cabin crew/handling/mechanic, etc.)?

Any previous flight training or endorsements (PPL, CPL, UL, Glider)?

What nationality (UK, EU, non-EU residents)?

And what age (...)? Male/Female?

Would be interesting to find out what profile TCX is looking for in this particular recruitment. Best of luck to you all! :ok:

SAFFA pilot, sorry to hear you didn't make it - how did they let you know? By email I assume?

I'm guessing that having heard nothing at this very late stage, I probably didn't make it either - but as others have said, it would have been nice to have been notified either way a little bit sooner!

TCX
 

Smell the Coffee...nope, no email, no phone call, no tissue or shoulder to cry on :} but I suppose I can safely assume its a "No" as stage 3 starts tomorrow.

Actually I'm a bit mad at myself as my ATPL's took a knock last week as all I did was press the refresh button on this blog...:ugh:

Anyhow, will just have to do all this the hard way...study, work, hour build on weekends however what made this scheme so powerful was the "guaranteed job" at the end of it & lets be honest TCX is a decent company to work for. I'm sure many fAtpl's would agree in the current climate thats worth its weight in gold.

To all that did not make it, not to worry, anything is possible just hang in there :ok:

Thanks SAFFAPILOT - as others above have noted, disappointing that Thomas Cook and/or FTE have not bothered (as yet) to let those that didn't make the grade know ... on the other hand, all the best to those that have received the call!

TC84AS, an example of somebody who didn't get through:

*2:1 Hons BSc Aviation Technology with Pilot Studies (I'm sure many will of heard of this course, hell a couple on this forum probably DID this course).
*PPL gained in 2008, not trained since to avoid gaining too many hours for an integrated course.
*been previously accepted into FTE twice since 2007, currently still able to join OAA having been accepted in 2009.
*22, from the UK.

In case you hadn't guessed already, that's me. Having said all this, as I mentioned above I may have missed the stage 2 deadline depending on how you perceive "3 days from this email". I certainly hope that's the reason anyway, or maybe here's the bit where I look at my responses to the questionnaire and go "Oh s**t, I called them Thomson"...(Nope, just checked, I'm in the clear on that one!)

Hi Guys

This is my first post on here as I have only just registered, although I have monitored the forums for some years.

I have also applied for this scheme, and just wanted to say that I am certain that not hearing anything yet is not a definate NO from TCX, and understand that it is not uncommon within the industry to be called the day before to attend an interview. They may (given the tight timescale) for example have only shortlisted half of the overall amount that they wish to interview at this stage, and have therefore only spoken to this half. Therefore 'chins up' for now, as it may not be over just yet :ok:.

That said if nothing is heard by mid next week will just have to accept it, and it is not uncommon to hear nothing at all, especially if they have received such a large response.

Best of luck everyone and I will post again if I hear anything more.

hi all,

just a wee email, i got through to stage 3. As for those who didn't PLEASE dont give up, regardless of age. Im a 20 year old female and I am a newly qualified PPL. I have got down to the final stages of many schemes and been turned away financial, because im too young etc etc. And even this time may not be my big break. As for the age thing, my friend is 34 and leaving an incredibly well paid job to follow her dream and I would suggest that anyone else having the same doubts about their career should just seize the day and go for it. Ive learnt early that I want to live rather than just exist and waste my life. If you want it you will get there. Even if you have failed a medical theres ways around it i.e get an american license etc. I believe aviation is coming out of the recession now and they are predicting a pilot shortage in 2012 so if you got turned down get studying and you'll be ready for that :D I have been working for an airline for about 3 weeks just in a customer service role, I would suggest trying to get a job with any airline gives you great background and experience. I got to sit with a captain doing his flight plan! I can also tell you that the majority of the pilots are very...mature if you get me. So you wont have any age issues. Last week i heard of a man getting his first FO job at 50....the skies the limit literally. dont give up look into all the options if you want it bdly enough you'll find a way

TC84AS

I managed to get through I have three A-levels and relevant work experience. I have also completed my Bronze Duke of Edinburgh and represented various football teams. My A-levels are in ICT, Business studies and Physics with grades ABC.

Greyb33

Well I receive the email on Friday in the morning, so counted 3 days - that makes Monday in the morning. I even used my fingers.... all of Friday, all of Saturday, all of Sunday and the bit on Monday morning before the time the email was sent on Friday.:)

I figured the fact that pilots (and the TCX staff given the assessment for some is on Sunday) worked weekends so every day is a working day.

Stage 3
 

I got through to stage 3, however unfortunately, I have had to withdraw due to a number of reasons.

My details are 29 (soon to be 30), single male. 4 A levels (incl. Maths, Physics, Chemistry), MEng in Aerospace Engineering, MSc in Design of Rotating Machines. 5 years work experience in engineering field at an aerospace company.

Obtained ppl in 1998 but not current due to financial priorities. Play team sports etc.

I wrote on average, 220 words per question (excluding question 8 where I wrote abut 20). Not 7 pages worth, more like 3.

I'm just gutted I couldn't continue.

I would find it disappointing if TCX didn't email people to let them know if they hadn't progressed further. Seems strange and not very professional at all to me. Maybe they will wait to see how many people progress to stage 4 before rejecting anyone.

Ed

Hi guys, sorry but is there a link for this scheme by thomas cook and is it limited to UK and Irish citizens only?

Macarto, I don't believe this was restricted to any geographical area, but the deadline to make an initial application for the scheme has been already passed if you were looking to apply. Sorry.

Har Har colourblindgeek :} . I was suggesting there could simply be confusion; 3 days could mean until midnight of the third day after the email was sent or 72 hours from when the email was sent...oh what the heck, it doesn't matter anyway :rolleyes: , more fool me for the email somehow not grasping my attention until what turned out to be the last minute.

Time to look for the next golden opportunity, anyone got a heads up on any?

to all the whingers
 

i have done a lot of interviews over the past few years and on no occassion did the company call me up or email me to say i didnt progress to the next stage at the same of or before offering it to successful canditates. that is just the way it goes, it is not unprofessinal of tc at all, you might learn to realise this after you have applied for a few other things in the future.
if all you want to do is come on here and complain it doesnt show much character and get up in you. the stage 3 tests are in progress this weekend as you all know so just take it on the chin and take what you can from it and do better next time.
i got called to stage 3 but due to my personal situation i have had to pull out of the competition. i wrote 3 pages and got the call, some wrote 10 plus pages and got the call. they have a canditate profile and the way you answered the questions ultimately dictates if you will be successful or not, not the quantity. life experience and getting your point accross is what you needed.
to all who have made it this far, the very best of luck and to all who have not been successful, as i said earlier, chin up, there will be more opportunities, one door closes, another one opens. if its what you really want to do and you work hard, then i am sure it wont pass you by.

be good.
t a o s :ok:

Have to disagree with this part of your post ace of spades.

Like you, I have applied for many jobs and sponsorships and ALL have replied back to let me know whether I have been successful or not, so I can't really accept the argument 'that's just how it goes' .... if this is true, then it's the first time I haven't heard back from a company regarding the status of my application.

If TCX never intended to reply to those that didn't get through to Stage 3, the least they could have done is add a disclaimer such as 'if you don't hear back from us within 2 weeks, please consider your application unsuccessful on this occasion.'

Having said that, I agree with the rest of your post. We shall all move on and make it happen!

Just out of curiosity, was writing essay style answers a requirement to passing through to stage 3? Everyone here has mentioned that they wrote pages upon pages for the answers.

I don't recall it mentioning that on the website. I was under the assumption that 15 or 16 lines that were to the point for each answer would have sufficed? Short and sweet instead of lot's of waffle. Maybe I'm wrong in that conclusion?

Hi guys,

Any feedback from the people who did the assessment already? How was it? How many applicants are there?

Cheers

Wasn't too bad. Not sure of total number of applicants has to be min 60