Is it worth to invest in type rating?
 

Maybe the hardest thing for young pilot like me with JAA CPL ME/IR, ATPL frozen and 300hrs piston total time with some 20 hrs on multi is to find any job on JET aircrafts.

So I'm thinking..would it be worth to invest in type rating on some Cessna Citation and hoping to find job maybe easier than without any type?
On the other side, who would hire me with 300 hrs of total time with type rating and no further experience on it...

Is it worth to try it ??

It is not worth it, and noone will hire you! The time for 250hr newbies to go straight onto jet aircraft (and earn a proper wage) has ceased for the time being. Sorry to be negative, but you need to get a grip with what is happening with the job market at the moment.

As said above, NO. Unless of course it has a cast iron, absolutely guaranteed, totally watertight and personally endorsed by the Pope job offer attached to it.

Agreed; NO!

It can never be called an investment when it comes to forking up cash in order to be somewhat employed. This malpractise continues to keep T&Cs deteriorating and should, in fact, be banned by law. Do your wallet, and your fellow aviators, a bi favor. Don`t do it. Also, read the thread about Airbus saying that pilot handling skills are coming to an alltime low. Again, do yourself a huge favor and do your time through the ranks. You might just learn a lot about flying that way:ok:

Right now, if I were in your shoes, I'd probably go for an FI rating in order to keep current and flying aircraft. Job's are so scarce and getting into the bizjet market is hard enough in the good times. Good luck whichever way you decide.

Man up. Go to Africa, get a job by showing how keen you are. Impress with your skills as a pilot once you have that job. Earn respect by operating safely and efficiently. Get some experience and work your way up the ladder. Thats how we did it in the old days.

Those days are gone. Jet operators hire low houred cadets now with the finance for their own type ratings. That's if they hire anybody at all. They have no interest in 1500 hour turboprop pilots from harsh environments, because there is no money in them. I'm not saying it's right, that's just the way it is. I wish I could see it changing because I appear to have shot myself in the foot gaining experience that no one wants.

Sorry mate but I think if you do that you'll find yourself tens of thousands of £ down, still unable to find employment and now restricted to only one aircraft type. Only pay for a type rating if you have a dead cert guaranteed job at the end of it. If you take a punt on a SSTR hoping that a job will appear at the end of it, I think you'll almost certainly lose your bet. Sorry to be the bearer of bad news but the employment market is dead right now. Its brutal out there.

Your right hammer. I used to get bitter about it, but I think I have just accepted it now. There will always be someone out there that can come in with £50 000 to burn and able to not earn for a year. I have always been anti paying for a type rating but facts are facts. There are guys sitting on a couch now with 0 hours that will be captains on a320s earning big bucks in 5 years, I will still be flying some busted @rse plane sticking to my guns.

I was just messing with my last post. My answer to the chap asking the question is this; Paying for a type rating is lick gambling, play only what you can afford to lose. If you can afford to just throw the money away, do it, do it now. If you are going to gamble your family home just to do it, dont do it. If your rich, go to eaglejet. Pay £50 000 to do a TR on the A320 and 500 hours line flying. I see on another thread that guys are having to wait for up to 4 months for the line flying part. If your stupidly rich......try out bidding them....offer eaglejet another £10 000 to jump the que. If they say nup try offering them £20 000. I am telling you, the way the industry is going, this is not an unrealistic scenario in the very near future.

No especially not a biz jet rating. Lots of type rated pilots on the market and a lot of companies will want you to pay them for the rating so they can take a cut.

Forget jets. Work your ticket.

buy hours on type. Either A320/737NG.

stay away from biz jet ratings, they're not for you.

i know a friend of a friend that has the odd work going for a company at the moment for a Cessna Citation aircraft.

one problem tho, is they want 1000 hrs (which they can get) 500 hours on type, and at the moment captains a working for free and there co-pilots are paying them to be in the right hand seat..

which = keeping current for us guys, but paying for it!!!

its up to you if you want a rating.

just remember if you get a type rating you will narrow down the
companies who you can work for only.

also there are lots of netjets pilots and others who have had flying hours cut back this year. i know of a small number working as instructors at the moment.. due to the lack of flying!!!

i am in the same position like yourself. throwing money at aviation may not solve the problem and you could be renewing your type rating and ir rating sooner than you think... which is more cost to spend!!!

If you have the cash to burn, fill your boots!

Job at the end, well what do you think!

D and F :8

flyhighspeed300,

I assume that post was a joke at my expense? You cannot be serious?

BN

haven't read the previous posts, being lazy i suppose!

A friend of mine asked me to approach the head of training for the Airline I am working for to ask the the very same question. The reply was a very definite No.

The type rating is no real use unless you have Line training hours and a line check. His advice was to save your money and go fly a twin to keep your flying skills current.

Short and sweet, but from a man who has 49 aircraft both Airbus and Boeing under his umbrella and who I'd like to think being head of training and recruitment, knows what he is talking about.

Rather than doing a Type Rating only what about a "first officer time building program" such as offered by Eaglejet? Maybe build up hours on a smaller turbine (Beech 1900 etc)? Who has done it and can share experience?

Cheers

Certainly don't go near a 737 rating. They are not worth the paper they are written on at the moment. There must be hundreds of out of work 737 drivers ( Especially FO's) for any job that comes up.

I'd recommend getting a 737 and an A320 type. You can never have too much. Not possible. And then do the hours on type course. Times are tought, expand your options.

Given the bad employment situation I"ll say wait. It's time for starting career now, building hours etc, as aviation is always cyclic. But do yourself and others a favor and don't do TR or fly 4 free, consider only paying for anything once you're tyde with a job, and even then think at least rationally how long will it take to get this "investment" back, as you would otherwise...
cheers!:ok:

As an FO with a B737 rating and just under 500hrs on type who can't get a job I think you'd be making a big mistake buying a rating. As 4star said there are far too many of us about and the vast majority will be more experienced.

I did look at buying time on type through eagle jet to try and bump myself up the ladder a bit. However a friend at a major airline asked their head of recruitment if he thought it was a good idea and the answer came back as a resounding no. He went as far as to say that because it was paid for some airlines might not even consider it 'airline' flying.

Just my opinion from my own experiences and information others have given me.

Good luck with the job hunt.

If you spend money on a speculative jet type rating at the moment you would be a mental.

Is that too ambiguous?


WWW

WWW -has hit the nail on head, have you not seen the news this week. Another 100 or so qualified guys and gals on the market, thats another 100 or so people in front of you in the queue.

If you want to get a type rating, make sure the a/c type you choose has big windows, so you can lick them, you mentalist.

Even though I am a TRI, 737 and A320, I would have to say in todays climate it would be very unwise to invest in a SSTR... unless.... You are doing it with an airline as part of thier recruitment process and where you can have continuous assessment. The back log of line training, especially on A320 is an issue for concern, many Line training providers continue to sell products that will not happen within the next 6 months, if at all, there are heaps of guys out there with 300 hrs and nowhere to go, notwithstanding the 1000hr plus guys in the same boat. Ok, if you want to go to China and meet the requirements, that's another issue, but working in Europe...very slim chance. CTC have guys waiting on the flexi crew contracts, there are ex BMI 150 hr scheme guys waiting, hoping for things to improve, EagleJet guys waiting for Wizz and Lion Air, a queue at RAM.. Save your money. Remember, if you haven't flown the type for 6 months, you are not " recent" according to the recruitment guys, you will have to pay for your own LPC after 12 Months..and unless you have 1500TT you probably won't get a look in at agency work.

Don't listen to 'em! What do they know! Maybe even get a 757 rating after the 737 and A320. Again, I'd thoroughly recommend another 500 hours package for the 757.

Journey Man is quite correct in his assertion that the 757 / 767 type rating is now the way ahead for a SSTR.

It's about the only place a wannabe can land a job armed with just the Type and no line hours.

Alternatively, I understand EZY have launched an excellent scheme to bring some new tallent into the industry. Superb chance for the lucky few.

Buying a biz jet rating is even more retarded (excuse me!) than buying an airliner rating.

Bizav is all about who you know.

If you're friends with a chief pilot he could put you in the right hand seat of a Citation right away (with your TR being paid!!).

Bizav is all about who you know. (see a pattern?)

You can be the God damn best pilot in the country with 15,000 hrs and may still not get a bizav job.

Bizav is all about who you know. (.....................)

Are you taking the p!ss? Learn to fly first. You only have a licence to learn there big gun.

In our airline you need 2000hrs min to even get an interview to fly a jet. Guys that do all have 1000hrs plus turbine/jet time with ATPL's. No one has ever paid to fly for us and never will.
Why is it that in the UK/Europe fresh green graduates believe it is their right of passage to jump straight on a jet. Learn to fly first, then you may know what you are doing. I feel sorry for Captains having to fly with these guys. Single pilot IFR in a jet must be a long day.

You can't buy experience.

Rather than wasting your money why not focus your efforts on keeping yourself current and getting a job. I am willing to bet that someone here got a job this week somewhere even though the entire industry is bleak at best.

Maybe they got onto one of the few "sponsorships" going. Or perhaps they were recommended by their flight school and put forward for interview. They might have shone on the MCC course and been asked to pop in for a "chat" by their instructor who just happens to fly commercially and is in need of someone to fill a hole at short notice. Maybe they hung around at the flying club after hours, brought a few beers and got to know a few people. This might have lead to offers of some free jump seat rides to see what its really like to operate commercially. Perhaps this lead to a safety pilot role doing the radios and keeping the insurance company happy. Maybe they got offered a position as an instructor at the club subject to successfully passing the course.

Who knows how they did it. Each person has their own way and a quick search will throw up any number of threads of how people did it. But I would hazard a guess that someone who can display the sort of get up and go to get themselves out and about would stand a better chance than someone willing to fork out a fortune on a type rating and hours. I can assure you that having "Eagle Jet" on your CV is hardly going to be seen as an asset to a quality operator. But then if your willing to risk your life and fly anything and everything for a dodgy outfit then maybe they will scoop you up regardless of what you have on your CV.

The trick for you is to pull finger, develop your network and get out there. If you have the right attributes and are willing to put in the effort then you will find a job eventually. Good luck.

It looks like a really good advice.

short answer: don't do it.

you'll end up a prostitute for the industry for the remainder of your career.

never
buy
a
job...

UAV689
 

You're a poet.

Mimimum wage.

Beautiful.

dont do it
 

Hold your nerve, work your ticket. Times are grim now, but there are always opportunities if you look hard enough. Things will improve, it has always been like this, feast, then famine.
Do not be tempted to buy a job. You have to remember that very often the pilot recruitment process is started by other pilots, long before an interview is offered, my airline, and I know of two others will simply slip your CV into the bin if there is the mearest wiff of Ryanair. You have to understand the depth of loathing that has been created, and no amount of pleading that you had no choice, will cut any ice.

Don't even think about it!

I have 450 hrs TT of which 223 on an Airbus. Thomas Cook/Alteon took my £32k and yet it didn't turn into a job with them at the end. I'm 45, which was ridiculously late to go for a jet job, but even at half that age it's tricky.

I now don't own a single brick in my house. Mate it's not a good position to be in. I have had to take the philosophical view, enjoy the fact that I flew a big fat jet for a bit.

I'd say get into politics...be an MP....any eejit can do it and there's still plenty of money in that.

Aviation's obsession with SSTRs is utterly immoral. It stinks to high heaven. If only I hadn't been so blinded by the romance of jets!

Birky

Just Stop Paying For It !
 

TR's and Line Training were designed for employees to be paid for by the company that takes them on. A bonding agreement kept the system fair.

Now STRSS/TRSS and PTF are destroying the profession. The CAA SRG and FAA are looking into this loophole that has exploited hundreds of wannabee pilots. TRs were never there for pleasure seekers or Pay to Fly gullable folk.

Do not pay for a TR (self selection is never a good sign to an interview panel) and be very wary even if you passed interviews with a LoCo and got offered TRSS/STRSS - you are NOT an employee until you pass LST or in some cases have passed Line Check.

Type-ratings renewals every 12 months, how much do they cost?

I would head for a FI license because there will always be enough naive people ready to get raped off their money to push a few buttons and levers in a claustrophobically small room.

It' s the only sector in aviation that has maintained a steady growth through the financial crisis.

I know a load of guys are going down the route of paying for FI rating, thinking a good idea to keep your hand in etc.etc..

However, I also know these same guys are so desperate to keep getting the hours they are working for less and less money. I also know one guy who offered to work for free, sure there are many more.

Im old school and believe FI is and should be a career in its self, not "ill do it until something else better comes along" attitude. This will only undervalue the guys who want to make it a long term career.

FAA, CAA SRG or not, they'll never do anything, they'll never piss the businesses off like Oxford CTC. Never.

Sad but true.

Eventually the FI market will get flooded too, it' s only a matter of time.

I would prefer to see people spend 5K on a FI course than 30K on a TR.
As an FI, aside from the money-earning aspect, you become a better, safer pilot and get to know yourself alot better (as a pilot).

A TR doesn' t make you a safer pilot, you just stuff your brain with (potentially useless) information, learn to fly a 5 by 5 box on a computer screen and stuff your TR school' s pockets with money.

FI as a career:
Career FI' s can be better or worse. I' ve seen some very good ones that would fly circles over the best non-career FI but I' ve seen some bad/arrogant ones who have gotten students injured (not only morally) due to their bad decisions and/or lack of humility.
As a general rule of thumb, non-career FI' s tend to focus more on airline-like aircraft operations, career FI' s will tell you all about how to fly a Cessna and all the way up to a Mooney or a Seneca but will not talk about how they relate to a jet.

Point being, FI is not necessarily only a career thing IMO.

I have the same thing like Mr. ZOOOM

I am a pilot CPL/IR/ME 300 Flying Hours typed on C-152,C-172 and PIPER PA34-200.

I got the same problem exactly.

too many Idea, Ways...... But what is the solutions?!!!!!!!

:ugh: :ugh: :ugh: :confused: