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-   -   Advice after finishing training - what do I do next (Merged) (https://www.pprune.org/interviews-jobs-sponsorship/381829-advice-after-finishing-training-what-do-i-do-next-merged.html)

dudeatstarwars 19th Jul 2009 11:22

Advice after finishing training - what do I do next (Merged)
 
I am currently doing my First Officer training with Cabair, and hope to finish at the end of the year. When I have completed it, what is the best way to make myself employable in this credit crunch market? Reading the threads it sounds hopeless.
Do I need to build up extra hours before aplying for vacancies, and spend out more money? what is the best way is to try and get a interview for a job, or do I resign myself to having a huge dept and never get a job as a First Officer? I do not mind living abroad or flying frieght?

please advise. I will be just over 20 1/2 years old when I finish.

GBB 19th Jul 2009 11:37

Find ANY job (aviation sector would be a plus) right after the training, keep thing current, send out applications, and pray for better times to comeback soon.
Sorry but you just have to wait...

Brian Fantana 19th Jul 2009 11:39

I suggest you read a few more posts on this forum.There are plenty of questions and answers like the one you have just asked. Surely you can then figure out what to do next.
Whatever you decide good luck with it, times are tough.

Ollie23 19th Jul 2009 11:46

You need to stay in the game; which means paying your debt and staying current. You could potentially have to do this for a few years so getting the highest paid job (aviation or non aviation) that allows you to do this is what you'll have to do.

Did you not plan for this eventuality before you got yourself into

huge dept
??

Wee Weasley Welshman 19th Jul 2009 11:51

They do First Officer training courses these days do they? Here was me thinking all they supplied was basic flying training.

The only jobs out there for you are ones where you:

a) Pay for the type rating from the airline or airlines preferred provider, and

b) Work for free, on

c) A limited time contract, which

d) Probably won't get renewed.



I'd google Ryanair and Brookfield and get £30,000 ready.


Bank workers and teachers among the 2,000 a day applying for a McJob as unemployment surges by 200,000 | Mail Online

McDonalds currently have 2,200 new job applicants per day in the UK. Major UK airlines are looking at reducing pilot numbers by circa 20% for this coming winter. You will probably struggle to find ANY paid full time employment.

WWW

dudeatstarwars 19th Jul 2009 12:17

after finishing training
 
Thanks for reply. You say keep things current, can you explain at bit more please.Is that more flying hours? Sim hours etc etc
So basically try for any job hopefully in the aviation industry, and hope in the furture someone might want me to employ me.....

I knew the situation was a bit iffy when I started training, but was reassured that its not that difficult to get a job after training, just might take a bit liitle more time........( how Wrong)

basically so no chance of gettinga job if thousands and thousands fill in these on line applications forms, with people not getting a reponse, due to such large numbers
Who would want a newly trained F/O with no experience compared to thousands who are pilots from other airlines chasing jobs.

disappointing!!!

As I am new to this what web sites advertise jobs please apart from the web links directly to Airlines themselves?

Frankly Mr Shankly 19th Jul 2009 13:27

Whilst having some sympathy with someone faced with little prospects of employment after incurring a debt, reading your posts thus far, it really appears you have gone into this with eyes somewhat closed, and begs the question, what did you really expect come the issue of your CPL/IR with 200 hours?

You say things were a bit iffy when you started, but the writing was clearly clearly on the wall I'm afraid.

And asking what websites are out there, come on now, it's not hard to find them. And if you're in training now and don't know yet where to look, or indeed that it's a surprise to you that the jobmarket is in freefall, you really really ought to question your motivation for this career.

Sorry if this sounds harsh, but compared to some guys in the same boat, it appears you are woefully ill prepared!! This isn't a personal attack on you, just the way it strongly appears reading your posts, and it may serve as a warning to others, but I doubt it.

"Who would want a newly trained F/O with no experience compared to thousands who are pilots from other airlines chasing jobs"

Precisely!

Google Flight International jobs if you want, but don't hold your breath. Also www.PPJN.com for a general overview, but again, ditto.

Good luck, I genuinely wish you well, however I fear this won't be the last thread of this ilk, others will follow.

dudeatstarwars 19th Jul 2009 13:40

advice after training
 
I did look into it and made the judgement of going into training with advice I was given at the time!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! took about 2 years to decide.

I am only asking for advice,yes there is lots to find out, which I am solely prepared to do........I am wholly committed into being a pilot...I only wanted some advice.......wish I had never asked now..............!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Wee Weasley Welshman 19th Jul 2009 13:55

Are you sure you're not a Troll?


Friend, there are people at Virgin Atlantic with 5,000+ hrs on heavy commercial airliners who are out of work or about to be. CTC has a vast Olympic sized swimming pool packed with eager 200hr cadets perfecting their backstroke who all come fitted with a type rating by CTC. There are pilots of every shape, experience and flavour either out of work or applying for jobs because they fear their current job is for the chop.

There really is only one game in town for you and that's paying Ryanair for a type rating and some work experience which *may* result in a contract with Brookfield. Given they have frozen British FO command opportunities and are talking of closing some UK bases even thats a long and possibly pointless shot.


That's it.


You're in a grave situation and keeping things current for the upturn is going to take years and years and in that time your skills will deteriorate. You have spent around 4 months acquiring just over 150hrs of flying light aircraft. With every week, month and year that passes your rapidly learned flying skills will leak out of you. To the point where you'll really struggle to pass a sim assessment when sat next to someone smelling of fresh paint just out his MCC course.

*THIS* is the reason people like me have been banging a drum so hard around here (its fallen to bits now) about timing your training being so important.

You must have started with CABAIR since the collapse of Lehman Brothers. That was frankly mad.

Everything now depends on your financial situation. Is you debt manageable, do you have a career to return to and are you willing to throw a lot more time and money at your career are key questions.

Did this topic not come up in conversation with your course mates earlier?

WWW

ford cortina 19th Jul 2009 14:47

Son you will come out of training with 200 hours experience.

I take it you want a job in a Airline. You are a unknown quantity to them. You don't know how to operate a Boeing, Airbus, Dash8, RJ100 etc...so then you are unemployable, in th current market place. I have friends with hours on type, airline experience on Boeing and Airbus and cannot get a sniff, they are ready to go straight into a OPC and start in a few weeks, not a few months as you are.

Cabair have sold you a dream, it is obtainable, but it will cost you lots more money and pain. If you are really lucky you might get a chance with Ryanair, but don't hold your breath as they have lots of recruits and are slowing down Type rating courses.

You are training to be a professional Pilot, use that common sense that you have and look, do some research.

Your comment about living abroad and freight is just silly. I share a house in Africa, where I am now, with a very highly experienced Captain who did 15 years Freight, he loved it, it is no different to the Human kind, just quieter.
I did not intend to work here, along with most of the crew down here, but we are all B737 drivers and you go where the work is.

Hope you have a back up plan in order to help service your debt.

dudeatstarwars 19th Jul 2009 15:05

advice after training
 
Thanks for reply

I think my thread was misunderstood. I put I DONT MIND flying freight etc anything.(why is that silly)


I am not niave, have spent a long time looking into this career before starting, with the information I had and was given at that time made a decision. I couldnt do any more than that.

All I wondered was what people are doing in the same situation after training.........no more no less.........maybe us poor souls new to all this, shouldnt ask for any advice,because we are judged to be not committed to the job in hand if we do.........

Ollie23 19th Jul 2009 15:20


I am not niave, have spent a long time looking into this career before starting, with the information I had and was given at that time made a decision. I couldnt do any more than that.
It certainly doesn't appear that way based on what you have written, I suggest you could have done a lot more, did your research consist of reading the cabair broacher?

ford cortina 19th Jul 2009 17:50

It was just the fact you wrote twice ' I don't mind flying freight'. Why is freight so inferior, so many young wannabes and general public think it is. If you fly freight you will carry things that are far move valuable than any human cargo you can mention (remember this business is about money). I hate it when people have this attitude, which you have shown, that freight is not a proper job. You will find that to work for DHL/TNT etc it can be much harder to get a job rather than the likes of Ryanair.
If you fly freight you will be expected to know your way around your aircraft, not some newly qualified on type who is wet behind the ears.

But you must have a plan in place after all it took you 2 whole years to decide to use Cabair. WWW is right the world has gone mad.
Good luck, you will certainly need it.:ugh:

Just to add have a look here https://pilot.cae.com/Careers.aspx as you will be that desperate. If I were you at your age, do a flight instructors course and try to get a job instructing

Pace152 19th Jul 2009 17:54

Repeat a hundred times, I am not niave I am naive!

Just out of interest how long ago did you start training? If it was 5 years ago fine not many people saw this coming that long ago but if it was in 2007 it was pretty obvious what was happening to the economy.

As somebody said earlier on the best thing you can do now when you finish training is get any job you can and try to stay current.

dudeatstarwars 19th Jul 2009 17:59

advice after training
 
One very confused person here. I never said or made remarks about freight not being good enough........i think you have the wrong end of the stick.

I put it down twice as the other person thought I didnt want to try and fly freight, of which if you read the first thread I said I did.

I give up with asking for help with these threads,

Bealzebub 19th Jul 2009 18:00


I put I DONT MIND flying freight etc anything.(why is that silly)
Because it sounds as if you have a bit of a shiny hat complex. Do you think flying freight is some sort of lower caste existence that warrants a comment such as "I DONT MIND"? As others have pointed out, there are very experienced airline pilots (freight, passenger and both) who are either looking for work because of redundancy, or because of the imminent threat of it! This is not simply a UK phenomenon it is global. Nobody needs 200 hour pilots at all. Rarely has there been a time when anybody did. In recent years there has been an expansion of integrated training courses tied to a number of airlines type rating courses that have provided some "cadet" input to airlines. This has led a lot of people to believe that a licence = an airline job. For a few it was true, for the majority it was a fallacy. Even for the few, it required a rapid growth strong economy, with plenty of expansion on the part of the carriers, coupled with the expectation of reduced terms and conditions for the "cadet."

Unfortunetaly you are (like most people) caught between a rock and a hard place. On the one hand your experience will be buried by that of the realistic competition for any serious flying jobs. At the other extreme those companies that may still seek "cadets" will want to make those applications a source of revenue and profit. A lot of these schemes will seek MPL type applicants (for which you are too qualified.) Others will require to you invest a great deal more money to obtain type ratings with no further guarantee of either meaningful or long term employment at the conclusion of that training.

Ordinarily my advice to you would be, to sit down and take stock of your situation. Set your sights at a realistic level commensurate with your experience and seek any jobs that might raise that basic experience level. Network. Keep your ear to the ground. Read every agency / magazine / internet job vacancy going and send a simple clear accurate CV to any and all realisic prospects. Knock on doors, visit flying clubs and schools, and ask them if they either have or envisage any jobs that will even get you near an airplane. Invest in a lot of postage stamps. In the meantime look for any work that will increase your personal revenue stream. Reduce your outgoings as much as possible. Look at ways of increasing your flying experience at your own expense within a revised time/cost structure.

By all means apply for anything and everything. Most of the time your application will probably be dismissed at the first hurdle. It will however cost you little more than the price of the paper, ink and a postage stamp, and nobody will hold it against you. It has always taken a lot of effort to progress in aviation and it probably always will. In the current and forseeable future it will be particularly difficult, and there will be an even higher rate of attrition. With this in mind you should plan for a much longer period of advancement and do your level best to survive it financially.

Here at the top of the tree, the 3 "R's" are Recession, Retrenchment and Redundancy. The question you should be asking yourself, is what do you feel you could or should do next?

ford cortina 19th Jul 2009 18:26

Confused I'll say, how can you be so stupid to start training in the middle of the worst recession we have had since the 30's????????????:ok:

Aerospace101 19th Jul 2009 20:57

Another Wanabe Zombie!!

Sad thing is there are alot more of where he/she came from.

IF anyone had done a reasonable amount of 'research' into becoming a pilot would have found out that from about July2008 the abinitio route to becoming a pilot was effectively shut, still is shut and wont expect to open until atleast 2011.

2098 19th Jul 2009 21:02


Is this bloke for real? I'd love to know where scabair find some of you idiots. Don't you talk to your course mates or are they all as silly and naive as you?

Any self-respecting wannabe knows that once you finish the MCC get a job and stay as current as possible. Network yourself and pray for better times. If you have 70k debt then surely you should have a plan B and C all ready to go once you finish. If not, then you best start head scratching. My sister went to an open day last week for a part time job (minimum wage) 100 people turned up and there were just 4 jobs to be had.

I spent 12 weeks on the dole applied for over 150 jobs and got about 5 replies. Word of advice for a fresh CPL holder; do not put commercial pilotís license blah blah on your CV!

smith 19th Jul 2009 22:07


don't mind flying freigt
?????

Oh yes and there are thousands of unemployed "passenger" pilots out there who will refuse to fly freight!!!! Do you live in a cave? Are you under the impression that the lowly freight carriers will be begging you to work for them. Get a life mate, or grow up!!!!


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