Gosh.

I'm really sorry to hear your tale of woe. Thanks for sharing it. I've heard and seen it many many times but most Wannabes haven't. It takes bravery to admit in public that you regret something to which you've devoted time, energy and money.

If its any consolation I have known people who've done the whole waiting-6-years-for-a-first-job thing and they made it in the end. It can be done but it is tiresome and you are right in wondering whether it is worth it. Its a repetitive job based on shift work and makes you live where you don't want to live quite often. If there was another job that could pay me as well and didn't involved touching an aeroplane then I'd seriously think about it. And I'm early 30's so not really properly jaded yet.

Best of luck with whatever you do next.


WWW

I am also a wannabe and very much appalled at the level of grief endured for asking a question....wannabes need questions answering too, often stupid,often naive,:sad: but thats why Im a "wannabe"...I need questions answered from people with experience who will answer the questions i feel sound too stupid to be asking someone in the business face to face...!:O:O
unlike alot of you, I havent been there and done it, in fact, i havent experienced a recession before.
For many on this forum, they have been there....airline experience wise and recession experience wise. To me that means this forum is an invaluable source for getting questions answered, however, "trying to throw wannabes off becoming pilots" seems to be the action on this thread. All I can say is
Help....I/we haven`t been there.....Advise me/us on the best route. Please don`t speak in a derrogative way, its very disrespectful.

By the By..... Friend of mine finished his training recently(2.5 months ago).....Integrated course....Now a F/O with Ryanair. It`s not all negative,
Be positive and positive things will happen!!!:ok:

"Now a F/O with Ryanair. It`s not all negative"

if thats positive...then we're all screwed! :}

I can only speak for myself when I say any opinions I express are not meant to be derrogatory nor disrespectful. I only want people undertaking this route to have their eyes WIDE OPEN. WWW tried to warn us, I wish I'd listened!! One thing I can guarantee is that 99% of schools are going to say is "there has never been a better time to train." Are they going to say anything else???? They have aircraft sat doing nothing. Fees to pay. Finances to pay. More and more groundschool providers are appearing monthly. Sim assesment preparation session providers advertising. They are all screaming for our money, and it is understandable.
Last week at work, a senior captain asked me how the jobhunt was going. I responded, a nightmare. His response was "No, the nightmare begins when you get a job and realise it wasn't what you expected it to be."
Paying Ryanair 30,000 Euros for a 15,000 Euro type rating a positive?? I'm NOT disagreeing, but slightly unclear on that one. As I don't have 30,000 it is not something I can even consider.
Good luck everyone.

Hello
 

Thanks for your advice.This is really a most valuable information which is very helpful for trainer. Best of Luck...............:D

Scared
 

i am kinda scared after reading all these threads.

Irish whale,

Its not meant to be insulting or rude when people answer questions and show a bit of feeling in doing so. I have been reading pprune for along time but have just started to make the odd comment because I along with many others can't get over the level of naivety that some people seem to have.

I have been staggered at some of the comments made by people who think they maybe the right person to fly an aircraft with real live people in the back. Why are most of you guys who are starting out so keen to get in an airline cockpit on day one and why do you think some here find that attitude annoying. You have to earn it and build on the skills you gain in your cpl and learn the industry, its bloody hard and if you want it you will get it but it may take years and years.

So if you find it a bit hard to take when some one on prune is a little harsh, just take it, life's tough, after all you asked the question or made the comment.

Bla Bla Bla

Point taken. Understand it can be annoying at the easiest of times. I am just eager and showing it I guess, I know its a long road that has to be earned. But I`m all rosy eyed compared to the experienced pilots!

Can`t wait to gain experience and tell people like me stuff like that :}.

Young people have an almost biological destiny to be hopeful. I really feel low you try to take it away from the author of this thread or disqualify it. Young, confident and persistent person might even find the economic downturn inspiring. A challenge that exists to make things better (or at least encouraging because things have to get better). As pilots, we all know we can only hope for a favorable wind once there's a destination. Don't take the courage to have this destination away from people.

Yes you are right, and the purpose of these observations and comments, is not to disparage somebodies dreams or ambitions. I would say if you want it and you can afford it then go for it. The schools need the business, and those they employ need to maintain their own livelihoods. I would say the same thing if your burning ambition was to own a Ferrari as well!

The problem is that a lot of people truly cannot afford it, and there is a perception in some quarters that all it takes is the courage to take on enormous debt, or convince a relative to take on enormous debt, and everything will fall into place. Fortune favours the brave and all the cliches that blinker the often painful realities.

These comments are simply an attempt to provide a reality check, before writing out a cashiers cheque! As I say if you want, it, can afford it, and can accept the likely reality, then go for it! If you cannot afford it or cannot accept the reality, then the choice is still yours. Ignoring warning and danger signs, is not sufficient justification for not putting them up in the first place.

For Aerospace101/2098/Smith etc....
Who do you think you are to call stupid somebody just like that?
Who are you? What did you do in your life to be so happy about it?

This guy just asked for some advice and you guys have been shooting at him as if he was the worst form of human being... Is there a prize for the biggest insult or what? isn't this forum supposed to be helpful???


Riccardo

I can never quite get my head around why people post on here saying "just out of training what shall I do now??".... surely the answer is obvious... get a job.... any job.... if you have debt to pay make sure you pay it and if you are not totally pissed off with aviation yet try your best to stay current for when the pick-up in the market comes (2, 3, 4 years down the line... however long it may be).... why is that so hard to work out on your own??

If you need help to work that out then sorry you must be an idiot. Having read this thread from beginning to end I can't see why anyone thought the reponses were harsh... the answer to the question was bloody obvious to anyone with half a brain and had been in training for 12-18 months..... maybe I have just forgotten how niave I was when I was 20 years old.

The original "downturn is upon us" thread was started nearly 2 years ago so the writing was on the wall late 07 early 08. As such people starting training post that date don't deserve much sympathy. := :oh:

To the person before me - once the economy picks up, job market loosens up a bit and pilots fresh after training are starting to get hired again.. isn't it awesome having your training completed, ready to apply and snatch it? Or is it better to THEN start the flight training, spend a year doing so and very likely miss yet another window of opportunity?

Only, when you look out of the window of opportunity you are going to see the thousands of furloughed and experienced pilots already camped out on the lawn. It will take some considerable time for this qualified crowd to clear, before it is worth attempting to skip outside into the sunshine. Plenty of time to prepare I suspect.

Artlite downturns and upturns don't happen in 6 month periods. You won't just get out of bed one day and it is all go again on the recruitment front.

If I were going through training at the moment I would do modular so PPL followed by time spent hour building and gaining experience. Aim to do ATPL written exams end of 2010 early 2011 (they last 3 years) then do CPL, ME/IR when things look to be picking up again (there will be lot of experienced pilots in the pool ahead of 200 hours wannabees so maybe when they start to find work again). The cost of maintaining a PPL is much lower than a multi IR (and arguably a lot more fun).

As for being ready to go when the upturn comes there is no problem having a brand new little blue book (ME/IR) now so long as you are prepared to spend thousands and thousands of pounds over the next couple of years staying current without a sniff of a job with an airline. If you have just finished now it will also be hard to stay "fresh" a couple of years down the line relative to someone who has just finished their IR etc.

It isn't rocket science.... just common sense... unfortunately not everyone seems to be given their fair share of this.

I got my frozen ATPL last year from an integrated school and 14 months down the line.....still jobless!

Had a few offers, but i'm not prepared to pay for a type rating! Plus i'd have no way of funding it, due to my £2000pcm repayments

My advice to any wannabe's would be to hang back until the industry starts to pick up. When there's jobs coming up, then do your training.

After all, you can do it in a year!

Hi all,

First time I have posted here, have read it for many years though. Still amazes me the amount of hostility dealt out by some people, yes they are incredibly frustrating times, but that is no excuse for being verbaly abussive. Imagine spending 5 hours in a cockpit with that sort of temperament!
I whole heartedly agree with the "genuine" advice though, I started training in 2001, sold a dream by an FTO, thought I had done my research properly etc etc. Passed everything first time yada yada, then spent the next 7 years trying EVERTHING to get a job, instructed, did free stuff you name it...nothing, no job. I got really bitter about it, blamed everyone but myself, but it's a free world, I didn't have to spend £60,000. Then to top it all, out of the blue, I lost my medical !(In hindsight probably a good job I didn't get a job)
Take the advice on here, these people are speaking from bitter experience, this industry is not like any other, it is wholly about putting a qualified person in a profitable plane, for as little cost as humanly possible. Doesn't matter a jot if you think you are an exceptional pilot, passed everything first time etc.
In my opinion it is the duty of the FTO to be more open about the realities of getting a job (but hey, they are trying to make ends meet as well), Looking back I was such a naive tw*t when I started, believed everything the FTO told me.

Anyways thats my piece said..

Good luck to all you wannabes, but THINK HARD(er) before parting with any cash, it really is unforgiving out there!!

Two years ago I went to CTC for my assesement and boarderline missed out on a place - now I'm glad I did!

I really do feel for you guys who have this massive debt and no job on the immediate horison.

A couple of my friends from my uni degree went on to pilot training, and are just finishing up now (and one more is 4 months in) and I don't think they have a clue what to do either.

As for me...well I managed to score a great position with an aircraft remarketing company with loads of benefits, loads of travel and a salary higher than those who are starting out in the right seat!

All you wannabies - chin up, your time will come.

The problem for many is that they feel further away from being a paid pilot, having completed the ATPLs, the CPL and the IR than they did just starting the course. It is exciting back then, you have 200 hours of flying ahead of you, you don't understand the stress of doing a practical test and the money has no meaning for a while. Believe me it all feels very different afterwards. Employers outside of aviation aren't terribly impressed with an fATPL either, it doesn't spell commitment to them. It'll be a hard sell to convince them otherwise. I'd imagine less than 0.5% have a seemless transition from training to job. Most that do get a job have a 6-12 month wait. That is a painful time searching for the money to make the repaymernts when people are umming and ahhhing as to whether you will offer the commitment required to offer you a job in your meantime.

Do it the other way around, if you must at all. Work, work and work for 5-10 years if you have to in order to do this course without taking a loan. You will thank yourself for the breathing space when you are all qualified with a £80K blue plastic book and not a sniff of a pilot job or even any job. The advice of 'meat-bombing', instructing, banner towing and glider towing is wishful thinking. Good luck finding such opportunities. VERY few exist.

I guarantee you that paying for a job with Ryanair or one of these pay-to-fly schemes is not the answer either.

They aren't being paid enough for what they are doing though and for what they have invested. A career is a marathon not a sprint. I know many more than 15 people who have thousands of hours, jet time, who can not get a job. They too earned good money. A bubble, in some way or another, will burst with Ryanair. Just look what happened to the UK economy - it was, great, greater, amazing and then it all collapsed very quickly. It's nature. Ryanairs structure is overly engineered and as a result will fail one day. They rely on recessions to buy aircraft cheaply and then sell them on for more than they bought them for, they rely on pilots and cabin crew to sell themselves cheaply and then move on when potential pay increases are due. They wont commit to anything, they hump and then dump. Sooner or later, they will either run out of 'friends' or pay double to be allowed back in e.g. Manchester Airport etc. One shouldn't bite the hand that feeds it. Sure, make hay while the sun barely shines but when the times become good, which they will be one day, we will see who is 'laughing' then.