Well, there are no guarantees of course... but if you failed on lack of life experience then I wouldn't imagine it would be hard to convince them to give you another go in 5 years time.

If that was your only reason for failing I'd imagine you'd be one of the ones they'd ask back after 6 or 12 months anyway.

Like I said, no guarantees but if you don't think Uni is for you I wouldn't go through it for the sake of another box ticked. Ultimately if you succeed at CTC (remember it's not just selection you have to pass... you have to actually make it through the course too ;)) I'd imagine the few thousand hours you rack up in the years you would have spent at uni would be of equal or indeed more value than a degree.

All in my humble opinion of course, take it as you will.

Thanks for the replies.

As previously said, the worse that could happen is get rejected (I'm not intending to do so...). First I must pass stage 2, then will worry more on stage 3.

I'd prefer however to leave University as a second option, second only to CTC.

phase 2 passed
 

Hello, i came back from Bournemouth where i passed the Phase 2.
I'm invited to attend the phase 3 :) :) :)

Was someone at the phase 2 this Friday?

farfadet

well done for getting through

when is your phase 3 going to be held and how many people where you for phase 2 roughly?

Very useful information here from what it seems, different people from different backgrounds.

As CU PA, I'm not from the UK. Here, the courses I can get to are basically Medicine, Dentistry, Pharmacy or BSc, which are all massive 5 year courses. After all the struggling (and my country is known for my university and how rigorous the system is), you get to work 60 hours a week (that's the current situation for doctors), or 40 the minimum, to get paid something between £600 - £1000 monthly, that is at the age of 24. Then family loans? House, etc etc....

I did not see it worth it.

I decided to give a try to CTC first, if that doesn't succeed then I'm off to University, then do all the licences after my degree on my own.

If I succeed at CTC, then, knowing that the Wings programme is very well recognised by airlines etc etc, you will be in safe hands, unless you lose your medical - but then, I'm sure you will find some kind of job provided you have good grades at A level, apart from the medical insurance the airline might give you if you're lucky.

I don't know how this may sound but that's how I'm looking at it. I do believe that stage 2, group exercises at stage 3, and stage 4 are really up to the individual, but all I'm worried about is how to convince them about my plans in the interview part of stage 3.

NB: Please do consider that I'm not from the UK (even though I have British descendants) and that the system here is different.

I think I am going to sound like a grumpy old man in this post, so please excuse me now.

The topic of whether to go to University or not has been covered extensively on Pprune - use the search function!!!.

Does having a degree help to get you on the CTC Wings scheme - which after all is the topic of conversation - then the answer is not necessarily.

It is true that the majority of CTC cadets have at least an undergraduate degree and the average age is over 20. Look at the CTC website and it clearly states what the academic qualifications required are, and a degree is not essential.

Aptitude to be a pilot is important, regardless of whether you have a PhD in Nuclear Physics or left school with the lowest required A levels. Can you guess what CTC do? - yup - they test aptitude. This apparently is the stage with the highest rejection rate - so you can guarantee that quite a few graduate and non graduates have been told adios, thank you for applying but we will not be taking your application further.

So you have met the required aptitude level, so what are the important factors that CTC believe that an airline pilot should have. I very much doubt that the word degree is first on the list here.

So, have a think.... Team work is that important? Well CTC test you on it, it says so on the website. Motivation - says it is important on the website too. So what else could they ask me about in an interview?. Not really the hardest question to answer is it - Why do you want to be an airline pilot, a bit about general life experiences, knowledge of the airline industry, decision making etc etc, give an example of when you worked in a team - it says on the website that team work is important and so on.

If you didn't go to University, would you expect a question - Why didn't you want to go to University. If you did go to University perhaps - Did you enjoy University and what did you gain from the experience - blah de blah. Why do you want to be an airline pilot despite having a degree in Flower arranging?

One of the fascinating things about life is that everyone is different. Everyone has had different life experiences and has made different choices. Ultimately a selection team will decide yay or nay and you can bet that they have considerable experience in finding and knowing what they are looking for.

The university discussion has been moved here.

I would remind you that this thread is specifically about applying for, attending interviews for, and information about the CTC Wings (Cadets) scheme. In the hope that this thread will continue to be useful to those considering CTC, please restrict yourselves to those constraints. Off-topic conversations dilute the thread and make it less likely that people will bother to use it to research their choices.

Scroggs

Sagey forgot to mention Leadership skills, they are very keen on that! No problems if you were cricket captain for 4 years,but if not then have as many examples ready as you can think of!

Thanks PPL152.
I planned my phase 3 at the end of January.
We were 10 candidates. I'd like to know how many of them have passed this phase...

On a completely different train of thought....

What does CTC actually stand for? I've been meaning to find this out for a while. Is it Crew Training Centre, or have I just made that up?

Thanks
GWidgery

stands for chief training captain.

They used to supply training captains to airlines that needed them on a consultancy basis before they started the wings programme.

The business in now mostly concerned with selling pilots (wings programme) and command courses, although they still do some consultancy and cabin crew training i think.

The name stayed the same.

As far as leadership skills, uni requirements, an "what CTC look for" go... I dont think CTC are of the box ticking persuasion. Yes leadership experience is a good quality, and university can be an important life experience. Yet there are plenty here without degrees and when asked what leadership experience i had in my intreview, i replied "none". They still let me in. Like sagey grumpy chops said, firstly they test aptitude. If the aptitude is up to standard they go on to look at the whole person. If the sum of all the qualities that person posseses makes for a promising proffesional you should have no worries. People have different qualities learned though different life experiences. I would hesistate to say CTC want a, b and, c. I found them more open minded than that. The only solid prerequisite is good aptitude and the ability to do some quick mental arithmatic.

It is a jolly good job that you don't have to be able to spell professional as well!!.

However, Dragonfly is correct in saying there is no set formula, so be yourself and don't fall into the trap of trying to be what you think they want and what you are not.

I found the CTC interview to be the fairest interview that I have ever had. It was an enjoyable experience not one to be dreaded.

Sagey - aka "grumpy chops"

Airgus, if your looking for answers like this go back and read the previous forum found here: http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthread.php?t=144926

This topic has been discussed many a time.

Airgus, maths test is just a matter of know how to convert currencies, units and simple mental square roots... normally you have enough time to finish everything and to have a look at it at the end. I recommend you to read carefully the questions.

Finance/CTC
 

Guys

If you pass the CTC selection successfully, how can you finance the course? In the sense, if I have £0.00 in the bank, would that present a problem?

Thanks,
AC

roaches,
I suggest you actually read the CTC site before applying.

http://www.ctcaviation.com/wings/040203.html

M330

Monarch, from your link

"If you do not have access to the money required for this bond, an arrangement with a high street bank is available to lend you up to the full amount required (unsecured) at a competitive interest rate"

That means, YES, I can....

Hate to kick off the selection babble again, but can anyone compare the Pilapt/Psychometrics for CTC with, say, those at OASC for RAF/RN? Plus, who knows when the next selection process gets underway?

Cheers, FNSA

Fly Navy, different programme testing similiar skills. Just remember that CTC arn't looking for fast jet pilots though!

S

Finance -a problem!
 

Hi guys, I'm still worried and not convinced, so sorry to bother anyone with the questions!

I'm currently deciding whether to attend stage 2 or not as I have the following options

1) Go to university (last priority - not interested and 5 yr course to become a dentist or doctor is way too much)
2) Go to CTC

Now, I WANT to go to CTC if selected, BUT, there's a financial problem. I don't have much money saved up (used in PPL, travel etc) - very little.

A) If I get selected, what are the criteria needed for the loan, as I asked before, would I still get a loan if I have nothing saved up?

B) How much do the insurances cost all in all?


The info on the website doesn't specify exactly, so any additional info from present / past students or anyone would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks for the help.

aircockroaches:

I wish I had your problems Dude!

Why don't you go ahead with phase 2 and ask them all your questions there?

As far as I understood it you get a loan that pretty much covers everything. And then you pay it of for at least seven years afterwards, straight away from your salary (as long as you stay with the same company) and taxfree which is a bonus.
So if you don't have any money for the insurance you have to add to the loan...and so on.

But you have to made up your own mind if you really want to or not. Nobody can help you with that.
If you decide not to go to phase 2 can I have your place please??? ;-)

Best of luck!

I'm not sure, but having looked at PILAPT those exercises are all part of the Cranwell Battery in some form or another. Seeing as I passed those Im hoping I should stand a fair chance at stage 2, whenever that might be...?

cockroaches,

No matter which of your choices you ultimately decide - you will need money. Go the university route you will no doubt get an overdraft and be be tied to your student loan. Go CTC and the you get the bond.

If the money worries you and you don't want to go to uni, think about taking time out to earn some, then approach CTC with a little tucked away. I see you're only 18 - there's no rush, and it may give you time to develop yourself to make you more attractive to CTC, demonstrate interest by working in the industry perhaps?

Good to see a young'un considering finances though....:p

All the best,

Just remember that student loans do not need to be paid off until you are earning a set amount of salary, which is decided by Parliament. I have forgotten the current figure.

Another thing for the young uns to consider is that whilst you are training you do not earn any money and hence do not pay National Insurance contributions. You do get a buffer given to you, but Uni uses some of that and whilst it is not mandatory that you pay NI for the years that you wern't working, it can effect the state pension that you receive on retirement if you do not do so. Some may want to opt for making that extra payment (it is about 350 quid per year of short fall), and the tax office will notify you in writing of any short falls.

I guess the main advantage of the loan is that it is unsecured, I believe that it is the only unsecured career development loan out there for pilots. OAT, Cabair, FTE cadets can obtain secured loans via HSBC. All loans are getting relatively more expensive at the moment, with the Bank of England increasing interest rates.

One more question.

Having taken care of stage one form-filling/faxing etc. Any clues as to when I might expect to hear from CTC selection if they choose to put me forward for phase two? Are they constantly reviewing applications on a rolling basis, or do they clump them for specific application periods.

If you couldn't already tell, I'm itching to prove my worth, how long am I going to have to sit on my hands trying not to meddle?!

The money issue is all taken care of for you with CTC. If you pass selection it is a case of signing a few forms. Accomodation and training is provided, as well as travel. HSBC will throw in living expenses if you want them (400/month). You do not have to worry about paying anything back untill you are sitting in a big shiney aeroplane that goes whoosh. The course is a kind of semi-sponsored blur of money going in all sorts of directions. The repayements for the loans are even given back to you by the airline whilst you work for them so in a way you dont even have to worry about that. You will be on reduced salary for 7 years. They will explain all this at stage 2, its quite convoluted but makes sense in the end. They have structured the course as such that it holds minimal financial worry. The airlines get cheap pilots, CTC make money and pilots get jobs, its a good deal all round.

Like 1818 says unless your planning on being a doctor or a lawyer, or going straight into investment banking, when the financial processes have taken thier place and HSBC have all thier money back, CTC have taken thier share, and the airlines have thier pilot, your no worse off financially than if youd gone to uni and got a job. If like me you went to uni, didnt get a job, then came to CTC your debt would be astronomical, but hey.... who cares?

Flyboy, I am afraid that the 4 year figure that you quote is totally wrong.

You need to have 44 years of qualifying payments to get the full state pension, you have 5 years of grace ie 5 years you can miss payments on and there are circumstances where you do not have to pay the short fall - looking after children is one.

It is a minor thing to do with CTC anyway, but it is relevant to anyone going through flight training whilst not working.

S

From the Inland Revenue

What is a qualifying year?

The amount of basic State Pension you will receive when
you reach State Pension age depends on the number of
years you have paid, or been treated as paying, National
Insurance contributions. These are called ’qualifying years’.
Sometimes you can be credited with National Insurance
contributions when you are unable to do paid work.

You need to have paid, been treated as having paid or
been credited with, enough National Insurance
contributions to get a qualifying year.

The number of qualifying years you have determines the
amount of your basic State Pension. At the moment, there
are different requirements for men and women. State
Pension age for women will change between 2010 and
2020. So, the number of qualifying years for a full basic
State Pension a woman needs will gradually increase
to 44 years, the same as a man.

Some people do not get a full basic State Pension because
they do not have enough qualifying years. If you retire
with less than a quarter (25%) of the qualifying years for
a full basic State Pension (currently 11 years for a man and
10 for a woman), you won’t get any basic State Pension
based on your own record, although you could on your
spouse’s record.

Thanks for all the replies! Very helpful.

I think now it's enough asking questions! I think I have enough advice and information to make a good decision.


Seems that people have stopped posting the traditional "i passed to stage 2, and 3 etc etc).... are CTC on a kinda hold or what?

Aircockroaches, the posts for people going to the CTC selection phases has moved to the CTC social thread found here: http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthr...=252747&page=3
Good luck with your application :ok:

pension contributions
 

sagey - bang on mate, was worried about this when I started my training (not that many could understand the problem) though now I hear the upper age limit has been pushed back. Although you get a grace period for 'education' an ATPL does not qualify - only the bare minimum needed to get you into the workplace (any!) is allowed.

flyboy - i'd vote for you to be PM with only 4yrs of NI contributions! could be the shortest stay in office though.

c-ski

Does anyone have any latest info on stage 3 selection? I.E. the building blocks exercises and in particular the questions/format in the interview. Are there many industry questions and if so are you expected to know the in's and out's of each one of there partner airlines? or is just normal interview questions? Are there any technical q's if you already have flight experiance? Info greatly appreciated, PM me if you want.

Thanks

Sagey,

The 44 years rule is changing soon to 30 years (according to the letter the inland revenue just sent me advising me not to pay the top-up amount). So NI contributions aren't really anything to worry yourself about.

Flyboy 1818,

Cadet FO salary (after the line training 6 month slave labour thingy has finished) is £24445 plus sector pay, which works out at £30k or a little more. This is after deduction of the loan repayments (12k).

Cheers

Gatwick Medical Transport
 

TOP TIP!!

This may be jumping the gun a bit for the focus of most of these posts, but none the less usefull.

I've just returned from Gatwick today after sitting (and thankfully passing) the Class 1 Medical. If you are having to fly to Gatwick (or even travel by train for that matter), heres a small tip for getting to the CAA building. My initial instinct was to get an airport taxi the short ride, purely because I didn't know where to go exactly and if it was walkable. To my horror, it cost me £8.50 for what on a good day I reckon I could have hit with a good stones throw. Needles to say I enquired about alternative methods of travel upon leaving the CAA.

I was informed that there is a local bus service that stops just round the corner from the CAA (outside the BT building to be more precise). This service is FREE within the airport vicinity. Its only 2 stops to Gatwick South terminal and it tells you on the LCD display what stop is next

My advice, if your having to get from airport to CAA building, just ask someone where the local bus stop is and read the timetables there. There are only 2 services that run service 10 and service 20.

Hope this is useful info for someone and prevents them from the 10 minutes spent in a 1 way system with a moaning cockney taxi driver. And £17 better off.

Good Luck

Just clever marketing????
 

Dear All,

Just about to embark on the application for the CTC Wings Cadet scheme. As a 31 year old Naval Officer it is a little scary jacking it all in and being called a cadet again!!

I am interested to know if there any bods out there who have passed CTC (WINGS CADET) / OAT and have not yet found employment. Or who were taken on for line training and then dropped (thus being liable to re-pay the loan to CTC as they did keep their side of the bargain but the airline said thanks but no thanks).

I love flying, always have done, used to fly in the Navy have a PPL etc but are these schemes as good as the clever marketing makes them out to be??

Many thanks for any input.

MFWF:ok:

Go for it m8'ty! So many wannabes would kill to be at CTC :p

Personally i am going to do a 0-atpl course at a different modular school (saving thousands) then i will come back and apply for the ATP scheme, much cheaper! (also leaves me the money to pay for a type rating if it comes down to it)

Best of luck :)

Phase 4
 

Congrats for making it this far, you've obviously got the bones of what their looking for. I sat and pased my stage 4 oh 25th Jan 2007. I was fortunate enough to speak to a recently qualified First Officer who has done sim checks at CTC who was able to give me a few tips on how to approach it.

Firstly, as I've already mentioned, to reach this far you've already shown you've got the aptitude and the motivation to make and they are know really looking to confirm what they've already seen.

In my opinion, and I appreciate others may think otherwise, but there are a few key areas they are really focussing on at this stage.

1. Trainability - if you demonstrate the ability to learn and be tought then implement flying techniques

2. Attitude - if your approach to the flight deck is a healthy one with a view to a career.

3. Self awareness - debriefing yourself on what you did wrong and looking to improve it

4. Personality - would the assesor want to spend the Manchester - Alicante run with you or would he rather sandpaper his eyeballs......?

6. And obviously, raw flying talent.

This list is by no means exclusive and as I said is only what I picked up through my experience. My Assesor was Lee Woodrow (the head of the wings program). I honestly could not have asked for a nicer, and more genuine guy to ases me and this made a huge difference in settling my nerves. I'm sure all the assesors havethe same ethos in their approach to this phase.

I hope this is of some help to you, and my final tip to you would be relax and enjoy this experience. Afterall, this could potentially be your future career and no mater how good an actor you are, once your working in the sim, your true colours shine through.

Good luck

Air Kojak

P.S. If your on the early sim, try going the night before to sainsbury's just up the road and picking up some stuff for breakfast for the morning. The morning slots start at 06.45 and I know the Premiere Travel Inn doesn't starts beakie til 7am.

Are they usually using the king air simulator for stage 4s now? I'm sure a couple of guys did their stage 4s in a 737 sim a while ago?

I can confirm that a couple of guys out here that did their stage four in the 73, but mostly all in the King; You will be able to tell which it is by the location of the final stage (Nursling = 737/(320)?, Bournemouth = King Air). Nothing too serious involved, if you get to stage four you'd have to have a pretty bad day not to be joining us out here. Relax; fly like you would in any other lesson and listen to instructions. Good luck.

Great, thanks for the reply. Hope the training is going well down there:ok:

course structure
 

Hi all,


Could anybody please tell my the course structure in terms of how long each part of the course will take and where ie UK or NZ. I have read the threads but I couldn’t see the answer anywhere.


Many thanks in advance

Ribena