I have finished L3 in recent months and have been lucky enough to secure employment as an integrated whitetail cadet. Despite performing well throughout training, I got the job on my own - literally not one person from the "dedicated placement team" helped me secure employment. Here's my thoughts on events since the latter stages of my training.

Employment

At the moment L3 have "placed" very few people. Realistically at the moment, the only options have been Turkish airlines or Wizzair - or if you speak French, Easyjet as Air France are taking a lot of their pilots - The majority of people who have secured employment have done so on their own back, despite obtaining credible results. There was very little support and to quote on their website that there is a "dedicated Placement team" is absolute nonsense - airlines come to present at Southampton and such and invite people to apply - BUT in no way shape or form do L3 offer interview advice / feedback for interviews etc - You are very much left to your own devices - anyone who disagrees with this has been indoctrinated to the high heavens! This is a common misconception with the academy. The only other option is to interview for an instructor position with L3 - this isn't really placing either as why would you spend >£100,000 to become an instructor?

Post - Training Costs

L3 don't state very clearly what cash is required post training. An Easyjet type rating costs in the region of £32,000 on top of the ungodly amount of cash that is required already - And this doesn't include accommodation and living for a couple months either in Southampton or Burgess Hill near LGW. Furthermore most of the whitetail cadets (despite being successful early on) won't start Type ratings 4 to 12 months later. This is a struggle as A. finding work can be tricky and B. Interviews themselves are expensive. Airlines such as Thomas Cook ask for £760 for interviews! And that doesn't include hotels / travel.

Bournemouth

Is an absolute disaster at the moment. Some CP's have been given delays of 5 months or more. The whole point of doing an integrated course is to fly as often as possible (weather permitting). So why pay >£100,000 to stay in some terrible accommodation for such long periods when you could save £60,000 and do it modular? L3 decided to close Phoenix at the wrong time because they were keen to avoid contractual & finance issues with Lufthansa who run the training centre at Goodyear airport - instead of phasing Goodyear out they weren't patient, and jumped to Ponte Sur in Portugal which is still having teething problems months on. BOH has taken a huge hit because of this and has been over-capacity for months. This has led to disgruntled staff and cadets - L3 have been full of empty promises. Whilst it occurred throughout some other phases of training, when you were in Bournemouth it genuinely felt like you were constantly at school and were spoken to like a 15 year old frequently which was highly unprofessional - a view shared by many from my time there, and multiple cadets who are currently there just now. Not only this but some people waited over 2 weeks between the penultimate flights and CPL & IR tests! *Remember it's an integrated course apparently...*

*Make no mistake - if you are a whitetail cadet you will constantly be delayed because L3 prioritise Easyjet cadets & RAF*

Furthermore the introduction of the RAF will only make things worse. To keep cadets sweet they are being offered a couple hours of sim time in the B737 - 300 / 700 to give them something to do in the 2/3 weeks where they don't fly...

Maintenance

BOH have some of the oldest DA42s and have been plagued with issues for a very long time. L3 have also had a change of maintenance providers which have also caused more delays...

Social Media

Do not let peoples Instagram and Blogs paint a rosey picture of training with L3 - it is far from it. The main reason they do this is to get free marketing through cadets - many millennials who don't know any better do this innocently through instagram and blogs. It has even been rumoured that some people have obtained employment just because they have a social media presence. This is because if they sit there without a job for too long it looks bad on L3 when they constantly rattle on about a 98% placement rate - I wouldn't be surprised if that is 98% of around 30 people - as I have said the majority get jobs on their own backs, particularly when Easyjet are not hiring.

I appreciate many cadets will have different experiences, however L3 is far from the finished product.

I must also re-iterate that I have a job & I am obviously delighted to have secured employment - I just feel it's right that before people invest an astronomical amount of money into a flight school that they know what they are getting themselves and their families into.

Glad someone said it

Regarding what MrZed said about social media influencing certain candidate's success when it comes to securing a job. I have noticed that a prominent L3 blogger recieved an offer from easyJet, who had a fail on the CPL skills test and a partial for the IR. From what I was told only suitable candidates were put forward to easyJet by L3, as in, first time passes on the skills tests and a solid ATPL theory result.

To me this looks rather fishy as there are many cadets from L3 that meet the basic requirements, yet they have been sitting tight for well over a year looking for an offer from Easy. This leads me to believe that certain individuals are given a more favourable outcome based on social media presence and followers.

Hi everyone, I just applied and went for the online interview for Whitetail cadet at NZ. I have read the above posts and it seems like the situation at L3 is dire regarding the UK side. Is there any reviews or feed backs for the NZ side? Many thanks.

As with everything on pprune you should take all posts with a pinch of salt, even my own. I wrote that based on my experience at the time and what I had been told/found out what was going on. Since then more has come to light, I'll admit the situation is far from ideal for a number of cadets, but again I can only comment on my own experiences. However, all that can be said for certain is that the delays are present, and will affect the majority of cadets in the system. How long it will take for the problem to be rectified is up to L3. Even if all CP intakes were cut off now, that would not alleviate the pressure for another 6 months. The fact is it takes time to hire, train and retain instructors and other employees, so there will be no overnight fix for the issues. If I was in the driving seat I would be looking at how Phoenix could be resurrected (excuse the pun).

As a current L3 cadet, I can only echo Buden2's comments. I would currently not advise signing up for any course with L3, until they have solved the current delays, and created enough resources to carry out the training they promise. There are currently cadets being given delays of up to 6 months spread out between the CPL LST, IR training, AQC for whitetail, and for easyJet tagged ATPL students, and for partway through core phase and between core and basic phases for MPL students.

For some this includes a 3 month gap between CPL LST and IR training, leading to serious concerns about competency levels and the risk of not achieving a first series IR pass. Given that most here have chosen the integrated route for the speedier timeline, and the skill benefit of continuous full time training, despite the extra cost over a modular, many feel lied to and woefully let down by L3.

These delays are obviously also delaying the start of a career, and hence delaying the point at which cadets can start to earn an income to start paying back loans/mortgages, and in effect lopping months of earning potential off of the end of a future career. L3's current response is to offer £25 per week to delayed cadets to 'compensate' them for the delay.

While I appreciate the difficulty the loss of Phoenix, and the continued instructor shortage, has created, that should be a factor that L3 have to bear, rather than a cost to essentially be passed onto the cadets. All the while L3 are continuing to take on new cadets and only further the current problems, without having the decency to advise them of the delays that exist, or give any idea of how they are being resolved.


ps, L3 has various social media and internet policies that I'm very close to breaching, hence the new account for anonymity as I feel that L3 should not be able to continue ripping off future cadets by taking them on without any hope of fulfilling the promises/timelines they advertise. If anyone wants to contact me via PM I will be more than happy to give further details, and to prove who I am if they feel that is required to add weight to my post.

You can’t use the Private Messaging system, add url links or images until you have an established posting history.

From the posts above it sounds like a pretty sad state of affairs all round. 3-6 month delays, limited airline links yet still 2x the cost of modular......

The 25/week refund is insulting more than anything else. We're talking about life-changing sums of money invested here, both for the cadets and often their families. In my opinion they are entitled to significant refunds if the course is not delivered as advertised. I would have hoped that L3 would be prepared to write off a bit of their profit to do the right thing but there you go.....

Has anyone been to an L3 open day recently? I'd be interested to hear their take on it. I believe trading standards would take a pretty dim view if they are continuing to advertise and sell courses based on timescales which they know they can't meet. That said, I'm sure the contracts cadets sign have plenty of get out clauses.

Yep, even before you consider the lost earning potential, the extra cost over a modular route, for what is turning into a poorer course is ridiculous.

And I wouldn't be surprised if things get worse before they get better. L3 are still taking on cadets, and the delays keep being handed out, so I have no idea how they ever think they'll catch up. The past few days they've handed out stand downs between foundation and advanced phases for some students (for those who haven't been through L3 training, foundation is the SEP VFR phase reaching a roughly PPL equivalent level, and advanced starts SEP IFR then the moves up to MEP IFR and VFR, leading to the CPL skills test), and those students have been told to expect further delays between CPL and IR training. Chatting to some of the instructors they seem to be thoroughly embarrassed, and shocked by the delays being handed out, and more and more seem to be looking for a way out.

This has given me a huge chuckle, one of very few recently!

Did they give any reasons for this delay ?

Hi, at which location have they handed out stand downs? Which is the best location to be in?

As far as I'm aware it is equal across L3. We've heard of problems/delays coming from all of the flight training centres for one reason or another.

Exactly.

Delays due to a shortage of instructors/aircraft/facilities are disappointing and possibly a result of poor planning but can happen to any company. L3 are seemingly compounding the problem by continuing to sign new contracts (eg RAF) and not reducing the number of cadets starting each month.

I'm just about old enough to remember when the topic of CTC was on here in 2006-2007. Back then the cost was about £60k (which you generally got back), type ratings were generally paid for by partner airlines (who were matched with students mid-training), there was a HSBC Professional Studies loan which was available for everyone. You could only ever apply once, if you failed you didn't get a second go and only about 2% of applicants (from all financial backgrounds) got in.. At the time, it really seemed like THE place to be, shame I was a few years too young.

Seems like things have changed a bit...

I think it was when they traded their reputation for cash, by selling themselves. And then did it again, and the investors decided to maximise their return by opening the floodgates and turning it into the sausage factory.

It became a very successful money making machine, then L3 bought it. And tried to ramp it up even more. But it seems that the quality dropped as the quantity increased. And they've reached critical mass.
Their selling point was their placement record and industry reputation. As close to guaranteed airline job as you could get, that was worth paying for, in many peoples opinion. But without that, they are nothing but an overpriced flight school.

MPL and ATPL
 

I'm currently in lower sixth, studying my A levels. I will soon be turning 17, and hence applying to a pilot school.

I'm looking at applying for to the generation EasyJet program at L3 academy. I understand that doing this program will give you an MPL with EasyJet. However what I don't understand is what happens next, once you have achieved you MPL and are working for EasyJet, how long do you have for them for? Also, how do you go about converting you MPL to an ATPL, so you can work for other airlines?

Any help would be greatly appreciated.

Hi,

The program has the possibility of giving you an MPL or a frozen ATPL depending on many factors with selection. You'll know which license you'll hopefully be aiming to achieve whether your assigned route 1 (MPL) or route 2 (frozen ATPL) after passing selection (and competition).

Also, to answer your conversion question, L3 states:
"Holders of an MPL may apply for an ATPL upon meeting regulatory requirements as your easyJet career progresses.".

That regulatory requirement I believe is met once 1500 hours of flight time is achieved.

Anyone starting CP205/EZMP35 in Coventry on the 4th December?